PipeChat Digest #3744 - Wednesday, June 11, 2003
 
Re: wedding fee question
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: German Reeds
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com>
Re: wedding fee question
  by "Mark Koontz" <markkoontz@yahoo.com>
Re: wedding fee question
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: wedding fee question
  by "Travis L. Evans" <tevansmo@prodigy.net>
Re: wedding fee question
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
Re: wedding fee question
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: wedding fee question
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: wedding fee question
  by "Travis L. Evans" <tevansmo@prodigy.net>
WEDDINGS ... yer Great Aunt Fannie ... NOT!  (chuckle)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
paupers' weddings and funerals
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: paupers' weddings and funerals
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Andres Gunther
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
RE: wedding fee question
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: paupers' weddings and funerals
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: wedding fee question
  by "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: wedding fee question From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:56:30 EDT     --part1_27.42087695.2c18f17e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 6/11/2003 1:20:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dillardm@airmail.net writes:   > So - those of you with bench fees - how do they work. Do they pay even = if > they don't use the organ? How do you justify it, other then that other > people do it?   This needs to be worked out before employment. I am the person, not the choir director(which i am now also) not the = pastor's lovley wife, me,   My fee is paid for weddings. If they want someone else, that person auditions and then I decide if they are qualified. At that point i may = declice my fee if i chose.   and i usually do as weddings are never worth the trouble no matter how bad = i need the money.   After 35 years of doing this i dont need the grief.   good luck or best wishes.   dale in florida   --part1_27.42087695.2c18f17e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D3D"=3D Georgia Ref" LANG=3D3D"0">In a message dated 6/11/2003 1:20:04 PM Eastern = Dayl=3D ight Time, dillardm@airmail.net writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT=3D : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D3D"#000000"=3D style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"A=3D rial" LANG=3D3D"0">So - those of you with bench fees - how do they = work.&nbsp;=3D Do they pay even if they don't use the organ?&nbsp; How do you justify = it,=3D20=3D other then that other people do it? </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3D2=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" FACE=3D3D"Georgia Ref" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> This needs to be worked out before employment.<BR> I am the person, not the choir director(which i am now also) not the = pastor'=3D s lovley wife, me,<BR> <BR> My fee is paid for weddings.&nbsp; If they want someone else, that person = au=3D ditions and then I decide if they are qualified.&nbsp; At that point i may = d=3D eclice my fee if i chose.<BR> <BR> and i usually do as weddings are never worth the trouble no matter how bad = i=3D need the money.<BR> <BR> After 35 years of doing this i dont need the grief.<BR> <BR> good luck or best wishes.<BR> <BR> dale in florida<BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_27.42087695.2c18f17e_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: German Reeds From: "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:07:45 +0000   May I gently suggest that the reeds in German organs fulfil a different function to those on French, Spanish and UK instruments? They are intended =   to blend with the flue choruses rather than dominate or swamp them. Personally I would go for Cavaille Coll anytime - but German reeds are not =   usually positively awful, just different. Now Spanish Reeds are the = "raison d'etre" for Spanish organs (I don't know the Spanish idiom for "raison d'etre"! Any Spanish speaking members out there? And the British Full = Swell, as to be found at St Mary's, Redcliffe et al. is a sound to gladden the heart and stiffen the sinews ....etc.!! Never having heard any instruments =   in the US, other than on record, I am not in a position to comment on = their role, though I have the feeling that they are of a somewhat orchestral nature - but it is hard to capture sounds in words. JF   www.johnfoss.gr   _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/virus    
(back) Subject: Re: wedding fee question From: "Mark Koontz" <markkoontz@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:35:34 -0700 (PDT)   The way I understand the bench-fee thing is that you are paid whether you = play for the wedding or not. The reasoning behind it is just as you originally indicated: there are organists whose livelihood (roof, eating, etc.) = depends on these fees.   I, too, have a day job, and don't really depend on this income. However, = I do insist that the protocol be followed, since I will not be the organist = forever.   There has only been one wedding in the last couple of years where a = different organist was desired (a highly competent organist and a close friend of = the bride's father). Because they were kind enough to discuss the matter with = me well ahead of the wedding date, I waved the bench fee. I was even = provided a list of the service music to approve.   I would actually have some difficulty insisting on receiving a bench fee = unless I had already been involved in some preparation, or if I was being abused = in some way, as you clearly are.   Our wedding policy reads something like this: "The church's organist will = play for all weddings in the sanctuary."   I think the AGO has some sample contracts that help spell this out. You = might want to look at those.   I hope this information helps.   Mark  
(back) Subject: Re: wedding fee question From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:37:47 -0400   > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --B_3138197868_10344267 Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   On 6/11/03 2:39 PM, "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> wrote:   > Praise team is the bunch of guitars, drummer, piano, and singers = w/microp=3D hones > that play for the middle "Praise" service - AKA Praze Band - AKA happy = cl=3D appy > service. =3D20 >=3D20 > =3D80=3D80=3D80That=3DB9s about what I thought; glad I have no = experience of (much less > =3DB3with=3DB2) it. =3D20 >=3D20 > But the weddings aren't using the praise team - >=3D20 > =3D80=3D80=3D80In other words, oddly enough (since it=3DB9s often the = other way around) p=3D eople > exercise better taste at their wedding then they do at Sunday worship! > Interesting. =3D20 >=3D20 > they are using piano - playing traditional wedding music - but not using = =3D the > primary church organist/pianist - that being moi. >=3D20 > =3D80=3D80=3D80Unthinkably--for personal reasons? They avoid the organ = in order to a=3D void > YOU??? (I doubt that.) If they prefer piano over organ, I=3DB9ve no = complai=3D nt. > Piano was my first instrument, and that of many of us. But that piano = (o=3D r any > keyboard, or maracas, claves, bongo drums, kazoo) should be YOURS: = You=3DB9r=3D e the > instrumentalist. The other guy is the (very capable) =3DB3pianist for = the Pr=3D aise > Team.=3DB2 (Fine. More power to him=3D8Bwith his Praise Team.) >=3D20 > And most of the funerals are using totally traditional music - just = using > organ instead of piano. In fact, he seems to play all the funerals now = u=3D nless > the family specifically requests ORGAN when they talk to the ministers = ab=3D out > the funeral. =3D20 >=3D20 > =3D80=3D80=3D80Why should they have to =3DB3specifically request=3DB2 = the organ? Isn=3DB9t that =3D the > default position? If they want cello and harpsichord, fine. Or piano, = f=3D ine. > Or praise team, fine. But organ (I gather from what you say) is the = =3DB3usu=3D al,=3DB2 > the =3DB3default.=3DB2 Other stuff (no matter how great or pathetic) is = the > =3DB3exception.=3DB2 No? And since the organ is the =3DB3default,=3DB2 = YOU are the defa=3D ult. > No? =3D20 >=3D20 > Occasionally we do have a funeral with Praze Band - but never a wedding = t=3D hat I > know of. >=3D20 > =3D80=3D80=3D80Again, a bit odd (but I=3DB9m pleased) that people = exercise more taste for > their wedding (which there=3DB9s usually such foolishness) than for = Sunday wo=3D rship > or a funeral. Well, that=3DB9s good. >=3D20 > I hope that what I=3DB9ve written in these several posts will help you = with a > conversation with the pastor, which conversation I think is next on your = =3D list. > If he sees it my/our way, you=3DB9re half-way there; if he does not, = well, ge=3D t > ready to back off. Or out. >=3D20 > Alan >=3D20 >=3D20 >=3D20 > =3D20 >=3D20 >=3D20 >=3D20     --B_3138197868_10344267 Content-type: text/html; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: wedding fee question</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D3D"Times New Roman">On 6/11/03 2:39 PM, &quot;Margo = Dillard&quot; =3D &lt;dillardm@airmail.net&gt; wrote:<BR> <BR> </FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D3D"Times New Roman">Praise team is the = bunch of=3D guitars, drummer, piano, and singers w/microphones that play for the = middle=3D &quot;Praise&quot; service - AKA Praze Band - AKA happy clappy service. = &nb=3D sp;<BR> <BR> =3D80=3D80=3D80That&#8217;s about what I thought; glad I have no = experience of (much le=3D ss &#8220;with&#8221;) it. &nbsp;<BR> <BR> But the weddings aren't using the praise team - <BR> <BR> =3D80=3D80=3D80In other words, oddly enough (since it&#8217;s often the = other way aroun=3D d) people exercise better taste at their wedding then they do at Sunday = wors=3D hip! &nbsp;Interesting. &nbsp;<BR> <BR> they are using piano - playing traditional wedding music - but not using = th=3D e primary church organist/pianist - that being moi. &nbsp;<BR> <BR> =3D80=3D80=3D80Unthinkably--for personal reasons? &nbsp;They avoid the = organ in order t=3D o avoid YOU??? &nbsp;(I doubt that.) &nbsp;If they prefer piano over = organ, =3D I&#8217;ve no complaint. &nbsp;Piano was my first instrument, and that of = ma=3D ny of us. &nbsp;But that piano (or any keyboard, or maracas, claves, bongo = d=3D rums, kazoo) should be YOURS: &nbsp;You&#8217;re the instrumentalist. = &nbsp;=3D The other guy is the (very capable) &#8220;pianist for the Praise = Team.&#822=3D 1; &nbsp;(Fine. &nbsp;More power to him&#8212;with his Praise Team.) = &nbsp;<=3D BR> <BR> And most of the funerals are using totally traditional music - just using = o=3D rgan instead of piano. &nbsp;In fact, he seems to play all the funerals = now =3D unless the family specifically requests ORGAN when they talk to the = minister=3D s about the funeral. &nbsp;<BR> <BR> =3D80=3D80=3D80Why should they have to &#8220;specifically request&#8221; = the organ? &n=3D bsp;Isn&#8217;t that the default position? &nbsp;If they want cello and = harp=3D sichord, fine. &nbsp;Or piano, fine. &nbsp;Or praise team, fine. &nbsp;But = o=3D rgan (I gather from what you say) is the &#8220;usual,&#8221; the = &#8220;def=3D ault.&#8221; &nbsp;Other stuff (no matter how great or pathetic) is the = &#82=3D 20;exception.&#8221; &nbsp;No? &nbsp;And since the organ is the = &#8220;defau=3D lt,&#8221; YOU are the default. &nbsp;No? &nbsp;<BR> <BR> Occasionally we do have a funeral with Praze Band - but never a wedding = tha=3D t I know of.<BR> <BR> =3D80=3D80=3D80Again, a bit odd (but I&#8217;m pleased) that people = exercise more taste=3D for their wedding (which there&#8217;s usually such foolishness) than for = S=3D unday worship or a funeral. &nbsp;Well, that&#8217;s good.<BR> <BR> I hope that what I&#8217;ve written in these several posts will help you = wi=3D th a conversation with the pastor, which conversation I think is next on = you=3D r list. &nbsp;If he sees it my/our way, you&#8217;re half-way there; if he = d=3D oes not, well, get ready to back off. &nbsp;Or out.<BR> <BR> Alan<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;<BR> <BR> <BR> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D3D"Times New Roman"><BR> </FONT> </BODY> </HTML>     --B_3138197868_10344267--    
(back) Subject: Re: wedding fee question From: "Travis L. Evans" <tevansmo@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:55:27 -0700 (PDT)   We had one instance of a problem. I was asked by the family to play, set aside the weekend, then found out a week before the wedding from the 'other' organist/pianist, that I wasn't playing. She called me to ask me if I cared if she practiced. Well let me tell you 'it' hit the fan. Needless to say it won't happen again. I approve all music to be done at weddings, I have final say on it as well, I over ride the pastors on the music. Had one woman go behind my back. She wanted the Bridal Chorus, which I had nixed, and she went to the Senior Pastor. When he told her whatever Travis says goes. I was hired as Director of Music and its my responsibility to make sure its acceptable for our church. If anyone else is to play I have to ok it, by an 'audition'. I don't do rehearsals anymore. If the couple wants me there, its more money. We sit down before hand pick the music, they know what happens where. I know how we do weddings, there is no need for me to be there. Plus it takes an hour plus in rush hour on Friday nights to get there.   I'm lucky, I'm in a position where I am appreciated for what I've done and have tremendous support from the Pastors, Elders, and Congregation.   Trav       --- Mark Koontz <markkoontz@yahoo.com> wrote: > The way I understand the bench-fee thing is that you > are paid whether you play > for the wedding or not. The reasoning behind it is > just as you originally > indicated: there are organists whose livelihood > (roof, eating, etc.) depends > on these fees. > > I, too, have a day job, and don't really depend on > this income. However, I do > insist that the protocol be followed, since I will > not be the organist forever. > > There has only been one wedding in the last couple > of years where a different > organist was desired (a highly competent organist > and a close friend of the > bride's father). Because they were kind enough to > discuss the matter with me > well ahead of the wedding date, I waved the bench > fee. I was even provided a > list of the service music to approve. > > I would actually have some difficulty insisting on > receiving a bench fee unless > I had already been involved in some preparation, or > if I was being abused in > some way, as you clearly are. > > Our wedding policy reads something like this: "The > church's organist will play > for all weddings in the sanctuary." > > I think the AGO has some sample contracts that help > spell this out. You might > want to look at those. > > I hope this information helps. > > Mark > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: wedding fee question From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:12:02 -0500   At 12:59 PM 6/11/2003 -0500, Margo wrote: <snip> > An unforeseen loophole, I'm afraid. But I don't know how to go about > closing it. The senior minister has always wanted to be in line with = AGO > standards as much as possible - so there might be some possibility of > pitching a bench fee from that perspective. <snip>   Margo,   If this (the minister's stance) is truly the case, might I suggest you simply pull him aside at some point and explain your thoughts/feelings, much as you've explained them here to us on the List, and including information on "how others typically handle this issue".   Is there a chance that your situation developed, on its own, simply = because nobody else stopped to think about your point of view? Perhaps a gentle suggestion would result in an "Oh, my -- we're so terribly sorry we so thoughtlessly infringed on your responsibilities"...??   Good luck,   Tim      
(back) Subject: Re: wedding fee question From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:21:19 -0400   In a message dated 6/11/2003 4:55:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, = tevansmo@prodigy.net writes:   > I was asked by the > family to play, set aside the weekend, then found out > a week before the wedding from the 'other' > organist/pianist, that I wasn't playing. She called > me to ask me if I cared if she practiced. Well let me > tell you 'it' hit the fan.   so travis... um, who finally did play for the wedding?? you can't leave = us hanging like this...  
(back) Subject: Re: wedding fee question From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:32:39 -0400   On 6/11/03 5:55 PM, "Travis L. Evans" <tevansmo@prodigy.net> wrote:   > I'm lucky, I'm in a position where I am appreciated > for what I've done and have tremendous support from > the Pastors, Elders, and Congregation. > Well, yes, I suppose you're lucky. But mostly, you set things up right, = and you obviously have the support you might need from them what provide it.   Three cheers for YOU. I don't happen just by accident.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: wedding fee question From: "Travis L. Evans" <tevansmo@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:28:39 -0700 (PDT)   The 'other' woman did. I found out it was a money issue, they supposedly weren't able to pay my fee. Had they been up front with it I might have worked with them on it. But after them getting someone else I wouldn't have played for it even for my full fee.   Travis   --- BlueeyedBear@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/11/2003 4:55:27 PM Eastern > Standard Time, tevansmo@prodigy.net writes: > > > I was asked by the > > family to play, set aside the weekend, then found > out > > a week before the wedding from the 'other' > > organist/pianist, that I wasn't playing. She > called > > me to ask me if I cared if she practiced. Well > let me > > tell you 'it' hit the fan. > > so travis... um, who finally did play for the > wedding?? you can't leave us hanging like this... > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: WEDDINGS ... yer Great Aunt Fannie ... NOT! (chuckle) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:41:29 -0700   It's REAL simple at St. Matthew's.   I play, or *I* appoint the replacement.   We have bench fees in my contract, but it's never happened.   BECAUSE ...   "You want Great Aunt Fannie to find her way through a Nuptial Solemn High Mass with the full choir in the loft (virtually all weddings and funerals ARE Solemn High Masses with full choir) PLUS remember when to sing 'Confirma hoc Deus' in the Wedding Office? Be my GUEST!" (giggle)   No takers so far (chuckle).   If they want family or friends to sing or play things, that's kewl. They audition for me. I say yes or no.   I am THE LAW (grin).   Only had that happen ONCE ... the 15-year-old kid took one look at the organ (it was Frankenorgel Jr. back then ... the Hammond/Suzuki, which bore little resemblance to a Hammond OR an organ), one look at me (ME? scary?), and decided he'd play piano at the RECEPTION instead (chuckle).   This IS Newport Beach CA, one of the wealthiest communities in the US. Mostly they just say, "how much is a vocal quartet and a string quartet? $2500? What's your fee? $500? Who do I make the check out to?" and that's the end of it, other than the occasional request for the Taco Bell Canon or Ave Maria.   Of late, we HAVE had a couple of Wedding-Office-Only or Wedding-Office-plus-Low-Mass weddings ... small affairs ... I've handed them over to my sub-organist ... Wedding-Office-Only in particular isn't worth driving down from Huntington Beach (where *I* live ... I can't AFFORD to live in NEWPORT Beach) ... prelude, processional, "O Perfect Love", recessional, postlude, lock up the church and go home.   Besides ... I HATE weddings (chuckle).   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: paupers' weddings and funerals From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:49:49 -0700   Time and again over the years I've heard "we can't AFFORD that" (meaning my fee) ... not at St. Matthew's, of course, but other places. So being the old softy I am under all the beard and growliness, I'd play for $25 (or nothing), only to find out that the reception was a catered sit-down dinner for 200 aboard the Dixie Belle, or something equally splashy.   No more.   It's up to the RECTOR to tell me if it's a case of NEED, and we DID have one of those ... my favorite wedding at St. Matthew's ... an impoverished seminary student and a refugee from Eastern Europe. The whole parish pitched in ... St. Mary's Guild catered the reception, the Altar Guild decorated the church and the hall, one of the altar guild ladies loaned her daughter's wedding dress, the Senior Warden gave the bride away, the choir and I did our thing for free, and it was LOVELY.   But ordinarily, in a case of need, the PARISH pays me. Same with funerals.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: paupers' weddings and funerals From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:49:54 -0400   On 6/11/03 7:49 PM, "quilisma@socal.rr.com" <quilisma@socal.rr.com> wrote:   > But ordinarily, in a case of need, the PARISH pays me. Same with = funerals. > Which, of course, is the way it should be.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Andres Gunther From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:36:44 -0700     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > In fact, Andres is so absorbed in Cavaille Coll, and > so enthusiastic about the subject, I wonder if he > would like my original LP about the re-building of the > Trocadero Organ in Paris? > > It features interviews with Marchal and Victor > Gonzalez and explores the tones of the organ. >   I'd be very grateful to know the label and catalog number of this interesting record. (I have Erato LDE 3211, L'Orgue: Sa Compostition, Ses Jeux, which features the Gonzalez rebuild of St. Eustache, Norbert = Dufourcq narrating, Marchal playing -- but the earlier record sounds even better.)   Michael Fox >    
(back) Subject: RE: wedding fee question From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:45:47 -0500   If part of the negotiation for the salary/stipend was the promise of wedding and funeral work to enhance your compensation, that is the angle I would work in the discussion. I would explain that the practical effect is that my income is being severely curtailed by the practice, and that my understanding was that I would be the musician for these events. Of course, I would try to find out the other guy's (I'm saying "he" only because of my traditional upbringing that the generic is addressed in the masculine) salary/stipend and what he is receiving for these weddings so as to flesh out the argument. Perhaps he is actually receiving more than your fee, and that fact most certainly could be used to your advantage. Even if it is less, he is in fact undercutting you out of business, whether he means to or not.   I think before addressing the committee I would feel out (I didn't say "feel up", Malcolm) the senior minister on his views, using the practical and fiscal argument and avoiding any personalities to come into the discussion. The minister's response should give you insight as to how the fight will go, and if there are other agendas lurking. Bosses and committees have a hard time gainsaying a well-prepared pragmatic list of reasons why and how things should change, but get uncomfortable quickly when personalities enter the picture.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Re: paupers' weddings and funerals From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:26:31 EDT     --part1_cc.1e3c0ca5.2c1930c7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   That's a great story Bud!   Gregory   --part1_cc.1e3c0ca5.2c1930c7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>That's a great = story Bud! <BR> <BR>Gregory </FONT></HTML>   --part1_cc.1e3c0ca5.2c1930c7_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: wedding fee question From: "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:53:10 -0500   That said it all! Further more your affiant sayeth not.   Glenda wrote:     > If part of the negotiation for the salary/stipend was the promise of > wedding and funeral work to enhance your compensation, that is the angle > I would work in the discussion. I would explain that the practical > effect is that my income is being severely curtailed by the practice, > and that my understanding was that I would be the musician for these > events. Of course, I would try to find out the other guy's (I'm saying > "he" only because of my traditional upbringing that the generic is > addressed in the masculine) salary/stipend and what he is receiving for > these weddings so as to flesh out the argument. Perhaps he is actually > receiving more than your fee, and that fact most certainly could be used > to your advantage. Even if it is less, he is in fact undercutting you > out of business, whether he means to or not. > > I think before addressing the committee I would feel out (I didn't say > "feel up", Malcolm) the senior minister on his views, using the > practical and fiscal argument and avoiding any personalities to come > into the discussion. The minister's response should give you insight as > to how the fight will go, and if there are other agendas lurking. > Bosses and committees have a hard time gainsaying a well-prepared > pragmatic list of reasons why and how things should change, but get > uncomfortable quickly when personalities enter the picture.