PipeChat Digest #3746 - Thursday, June 12, 2003 Re: Preparing for Faure Requiem by <firstname.lastname@example.org> Lead me to the sun by "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> Re: taco bell canon by "Dr. Amy Fleming" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wedding fee question answered! - and a different question by "Margo Dillard" <email@example.com> Re: Preparing for Faure Requiem by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Recital this weekend by "Mark L. Hopper" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: wedding fee question answered! - and a different question by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> recorded music in services by <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: taco bell canon by <ContraReed@aol.com> Re: taco bell canon by "Del Case" <email@example.com> Fwd: Diapason sample by "Administrator" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: taco bell canon by <Gfc234@aol.com> Re: German Reeds by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Wedding fee by <TubaMagna@aol.com> Re: wedding fee question by "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net> Again: wedding stories from another world by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <firstname.lastname@example.org> RE: German Reeds by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <email@example.com>
(back) Subject: Re: Preparing for Faure Requiem From: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 02:12:17 -0700 I have 6 days to learn and perform Faure's Requiem. I have never played it before. I have the Rutter/Hinshaw score. I've only just played for my first 52 voice choir 3x since May 30th of this year. Wow, a choir absorbs your sound! All my 8 and 4 foot stops seem to be inaudible and the only thing audible is mixtures, 2', large reeds, and very low pedal notes! Anyone have suggestions or recommend a book to learn how to accompany choirs? I have been accompanying a 18 to 24 voice choir for several years now. The larger dimensions of playing organ in a hall with a 50 voice choir seems to require extraterrestrial knowledge and auditory skills. I was told that the only people who can tell what the balance is like are out there in the audience, even the conductor is too close to judge the balance correctly. One exdean of a local chapter said that when he can barely hear himself, that's when his balance is right with the choir. I just did Schubert's Mass in G with this 52 voice choir. My music director had said that anything larger than a bourdon and a salicional 8 foots would be too much for soprano, tenor, bass trio of soloists in the Benedictus. As soon as I started playing, the guest conductor said he couldn't hear me; he asked the soloists also. I threw on small and medium 4 foots and added a little to the pedal. That seemed to pacify the conductor. I don't have a good organ to accompany a choir most of the year. We are currently renting a better organ with mellower and fuller sound than our in house organ. So I am basically new to this organ each time but have played versions of this organ for special events 2x year for about 2 years now. I see horn, string, and violin parts written out in the Faure as if the organist is supposed to play this also. Am I? And the Sanctus keyboard 2 will need a pianist to join me. The orchestra does crescendos and decrescendos often during 1st mvmt. Do I try to imitate this? Several times one plays only for 1 section, like tenors or sopranos. What does each of these sections need the most from me? A soprano soloist told me recently that she can't hear me when I accompany her but she can hear my pedal notes and that's what she follows. I appreciate anything you can tell me since my former organ teacher always tells me I'm doing great for these past 3 large choral events but I think I still have more to learn. Lynn near Oakland, CA
(back) Subject: Lead me to the sun From: "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:07:29 +0100 (BST) Hello, I have just been researching forthcoming concerts in the Netherlands for my annual "Dutch Dash" in August. Never before have I seen so FEW "foreign" organists on the concert listings.....they all seem to be Dutch performers in 2003. There's nothing wrong with that of course, but in previous years, they have always featured a fair number of international recitalists, with well known names from France, England, Germany, Austria and America. Have the Dutch gone insular? Should we still drink the lager? The other thing which leapt from the page was the fact that Jos v.d.Koy actually managed to play quite a lot of Messaien in a concert at St.Bavvo, Haarlem, last year. That must have been quite an ordeal for him and his "little helpers". I hope to expand the concert-going a little this time, hearing some instruments I have never heard before, and interesting possibilities include Utrecht, Leiden and Bolsward. It all depends upon my being able to prise a certain person off the beach and into some clothes!! Perhaps I can bribe an organist to play "Lied to the Sun" by Flor Peeters. If Mark thinks there is a solarium involved, he will be there!! Regards, Colin Mitchell UK __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html
(back) Subject: Re: taco bell canon From: "Dr. Amy Fleming" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 07:22:09 -0500 Quite funny! (Jokes are always funnier the first time around.) More curosity - was that not originally written for strings? Amy
(back) Subject: wedding fee question answered! - and a different question From: "Margo Dillard" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 07:34:38 -0500 Well - I see this conversation continued well after I had to log off and go teach yesterday. And, as it turns out, this was a case of "oh ye of little faith" on my part. Tim hit it on the head. But it was/will be actually simpler than that. I had left voice mail for the choir director yesterday - first when I found out about the wedding next week that messed up my vacation time, and then a second voice mail after I found out the next wedding was not mine either - and in those messages I, shall we say "strongly" stated that we had to do something about the lack of communication and about the fact that I'm not playing for the majority of the weddings. Then, as you know, I spent the afernoon fretting about how to approach this subject when we saw each other last night. As it turns out, my two messages apparently caused him to realize the problem - and by the time we talked, he had already talked to the senior minister. Once I return from vacation, there will be a meeting with all the ministers, wedding coordinators, and music staff - 1) to work out a rock-solid method of communicating wedding info between the parties, and 2) to absolutely solidify my right of first refusal for every wedding, whether organ or piano or harpsichord or what-not - then if I can't play for one, the choir director will be the first-choice substiitute if they want piano. They even came up with a further plan that would invove brides having to contact me as soon as they contract and having to coordinate with me even if they want a harp or accordian or string quartet - so we close one of the communication gaps. As I said before, I didn't ever think the problem was intentional - more of oversight and not thinking about it. And I've dropped occasional hints, but never come right out and said anything until it grew out of hand. And then you just don't know how to approach it without sounding like sour grapes. But I think everything is going to work out and we are going to be able to get policiies set up on other issues we have never been able to get them to deal with - like playing CDs of Charlotte Church or Celine Dion instead of using live soloists. The mention of "pauper" weddings came up at dinner last night also. I have also quit cutting or eliminating my fee if people whine - for 2 reasons - I was involved from the family of the bride perspective in a mid-priced wedding and discovered how incredibly (and ridiculously) expensive everything is and realized what a tiny, tiny part of the cost of a wedding music is. I have no sympathy when they whine about my $100-150 fee when I see photographers that I know charge over $500 just to walk in the door and that doesn't even include any prints of the pictures, and caterers, and $800 wedding cakes, etc. etc. Then there was the wedding at our church a number of years ago that begged and poor-mouthed so that all the church people cut their fees - and yet they hired organ AND piano for duets AND not one, but 3 trumpet players (from outside the church - I'm sure they got full fee) - and the church was filled with florist jungle, 2 photographers and a videographer - large wedding party with all the full formal trimmings - HUGE reception with thousands of dollars worth of food. The end of the story? They stiffed the church - never paid a penny of even the reduced fees we had agreed to. The church paid the staff out of church funds and just ate the loss. So.....no, I don't sympathize or quibble about music fees. If the minister came to me and told me that we needed to reduce prices for a wedding, that would be different. But generally they don't do that - I learned a couple of years ago after the fact that we had had a wedding that could not afford the fees, so the minister had waived the church fees - but he never even mentioned it to me or the wedding coordinators or the janitor - the church paid our regular fees out of church funds. We also have what we call a "walk-in" wedding for people who want a church wedding but can't really afford one - very cheap, simple, no frills ceremony without rehearsal - and some of the more dignified and moving services I have seen. Thanks for all your support and suggestions - they do come in handy in discussing policies to see what others are doing. At this time, I don't think we are going to do a "bench fee". We are all still uncomfortable with the idea of paying the organist to do nothing. But we are thinking about some sort of "music coordinator" situation which might involve a nominal fee (less than actually playing) for doing all the approving/coordinating/communicating if they want other than keyboard music, etc. Speaking of getting other church's policies to argue with - what are your policies on playing recorded music in worship services/weddings/funerals. We are agin' it. We feel the church should either ban it or pay a BMI license fee. And we would like to address this issue at this wedding meeting. But, we know the minister himself likes to use recordings from time to time. I think it would be simpler and more flexible to simply pay the license fee. Have any of you done that? Then we could "strongly urge" people to use real human beings, but we would be covered if they don't. And we would be free to use the recordings that the minister occasionally incorporates into worship, often with good results - as in, we once built an entire worship service around the "Jesus Blood Never Failed Me" CD - it played through the service with prayers and comments made from time to time. I would hate to ban opportunities like that one - it was unique and humans could not have done it, as is always the case with the occasional recordings that are used as examples in worship - sometimes you can't duplicate the effect of an actual recording - it's not just words and music. So I think the BMI license is the answer - or is there another option that churches should use. I know our CCLI license does not cover playing recordings. Thanks again! How did we ever surviive as little individuals in separate churches without this great community to share ideas and support? Margo Tim Bovard wrote: > At 12:59 PM 6/11/2003 -0500, Margo wrote: > <snip> > >> An unforeseen loophole, I'm afraid. But I don't know how to go >> about closing it. The senior minister has always wanted to be in >> line with AGO standards as much as possible - so there might be some >> possibility of pitching a bench fee from that perspective. > > <snip> > > Margo, > > If this (the minister's stance) is truly the case, might I suggest you > simply pull him aside at some point and explain your > thoughts/feelings, much as you've explained them here to us on the > List, and including information on "how others typically handle this > issue". > > Is there a chance that your situation developed, on its own, simply > because nobody else stopped to think about your point of view? > Perhaps a gentle suggestion would result in an "Oh, my -- we're so > terribly sorry we so thoughtlessly infringed on your > responsibilities"...?? > > Good luck, > > Tim > >
(back) Subject: Re: Preparing for Faure Requiem From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:48:37 -0400 lynn, i've done the faure a few times with large choirs & small, good = rooms & bad, large organs & moderate-sized ones. registration is = something that only you & the conductor can work out. first, a question -- are there going to be other instruments playing, or = are you the only one? that will make a difference in how hard your job = will be. here are a few things that i do: in the opening of the first movement, i play the octaves on the swell = reeds, but then switch to a quieter manual to play the chords that double = the chorus parts since the reeds would obliterate that hushed energy the = chorus is singing. for the two keyboard part in the sanctus, on one manual i hold the organ = chord as written, while on a 2nd manual play g/g -- b-flat/e-flat -- = b-flat/e-flat -- g/g (repeated ad nauseum) to mimic what the orchestral = strings would be playing. in the in paradisum, i use quiet 16'-8' in the pedal and add the pizzicato = bass notes played by the orchestral double basses. it makes the already = etherial sound even more delicate. i had to listen to a recording and = mark my score to figure out which notes to play, since i've never had the = full orchestral score to look at. i also did it once using a solo violin and harp added to the organ. it = worked out very well. i'm sure there are more things i do with the requiem but since i'm about = to leave for work, i can't think of what they are. scot in seattle
(back) Subject: Recital this weekend From: "Mark L. Hopper" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:36:15 -0400 For any of you Pipechatters in the NC Triangle/Southern Virginia area, I will be presenting a recital at The First Baptist Church of Henderson, NC (about 40 min. north of Raleigh/Durham), this Sunday afternoon at 4:00. = The organ is a surprisingly well-voiced and successful forty rank 1968 Moller with a beautiful unenclosed positiv. The room is also an acoustically rewarding place to make music. The program will feature a presentation of Calvin Hampton's rarely-heard "Variations on Amazing Grace" for English Horn and Organ, which I will present with Michael Schultz, English hornist for the North Carolina Symphony and a former student of the legendary Chicago Symphony's = legendary English hornist Grover Shiltz. The recital will also include Vierne's "Hymne au Soleil," "Wenn Wir..." = from the Orgelbuchlein, "Christ, our Lord, to Jordan Came" from Clavierubung = III, the Franck a minor Choral, several hymn preludes (gotta "pay the rent" in = a Baptist Church!), and the "Variations on AMERICA" of Ives. Don't let the Moller fool you...it's the only Moller I've ever truly = loved. You'll be surprised if you hear it! Grace and peace, Mark ************** Mark L. Hopper Associate Minister of Music and Organist The First Baptist Church 205 West Winder Street PO Box 75 Henderson, NC 27536 (O) 252-438-3172 (H) 252-492-6774 (F) 252-438-3710 email@example.com
(back) Subject: Re: wedding fee question answered! - and a different question From: "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:14:30 -0400 On 6/12/03 8:34 AM, "Margo Dillard" <email@example.com> wrote: > what are > your policies on playing recorded music in worship > services/weddings/funerals. We are agin' it. Just fine for rehearsals. Or home study. Or cocktail music at a = reception. But not for a service of worship. Period. Pastor gets the same courtesy; we don't play videotapes of Great Sermons of the Century in place of the sermon. Or put plastic flowers on the altar. Artificiality has no place = in worship. (And weddings and funerals are, of course, services of worship.) Alan
(back) Subject: recorded music in services From: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:44:30 -0700 Strictly forbidden. End of story. No plastic flowers or electric "candles" on the altar, no polyester altar-cloths either (grin). Cheers, Bud Alan Freed wrote: > On 6/12/03 8:34 AM, "Margo Dillard" <email@example.com> wrote: > > >>what are >>your policies on playing recorded music in worship >>services/weddings/funerals. We are agin' it. > > > Just fine for rehearsals. Or home study. Or cocktail music at a = reception. > > But not for a service of worship. Period. Pastor gets the same = courtesy; > we don't play videotapes of Great Sermons of the Century in place of the > sermon. Or put plastic flowers on the altar. Artificiality has no = place in > worship. (And weddings and funerals are, of course, services of = worship.) > > Alan > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > Administration: mailto:email@example.com > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > >
(back) Subject: Re: taco bell canon From: <ContraReed@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:51:10 -0400 In a message dated 6/12/2003 7:22:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, = email@example.com writes: > Quite funny! (Jokes are always funnier the first time > around.) > More curosity - was that not originally written for strings? It was written for 3 violins and basso continuo. The basso continuo line = are the first 8 notes you hear, and then repeats about 17 gazillion times = (especially if you're playing bass or bassoon or something low like that). = This type of repeating bass line is referred to as a ground. There is = really only one melody on top of this which is presented at interval of 2 = measures, making it a canon (and since it is at the same pitch, is can = also be called a round). Hence, this is the first musical example of a = "ground round". Richard (running for cover)
(back) Subject: Re: taco bell canon From: "Del Case" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:10:55 -0700 ContraReed@aol.com wrote: > > It was written for 3 violins and basso continuo. The basso continuo = line are the first 8 notes you hear, and then repeats about 17 gazillion = times (especially if you're playing bass or bassoon or something low like = that). This type of repeating bass line is referred to as a ground. = There is really only one melody on top of this which is presented at = interval of 2 measures, making it a canon (and since it is at the same = pitch, is can also be called a round). Hence, this is the first musical = example of a "ground round". > > Richard (running for cover) Or to put it another way - What do you get when you cross breed a passacaglia and a canon? Ground round. Also running for cover Del W. Case Pacific Union College P.S. I did actually see in a church bulletin the composer of the infamous canon listed as "Tachelbel." Gets awfully close to Taco Bell.
(back) Subject: Fwd: Diapason sample From: "Administrator" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:23:40 -0500 The following was received at the Administration account so i am passing it along. >Request a free sample copy of the June issue of The Diapason. >Cover: John-Paul Buzard Pipe Organ Builders, St. James Episcopal >Church, Newport Beach, California. >Features: "Pipe Organs 2080 AD," by Gary Hauser; "Wilhelm >Middelschulte's Kontrapunktische Symphonie and the Chicago Gothic >Tradition," by Enrique Arias. >News, reviews, new organs, calendar, organ recitals, classified ads. >Send your request to Jerome Butera, Editor, firstname.lastname@example.org -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat http://www.pipechat.org mailto:email@example.com
(back) Subject: Re: taco bell canon From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:24:01 EDT --part1_105.3070a825.2c1a1131_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have seen Canon spelled like the weapon more than once-maybe its better = off that way. boom! Gregory --part1_105.3070a825.2c1a1131_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>I have seen Canon = spelled=3D like the weapon more than once-maybe its better off that way. <BR>boom! <BR>Gregory</FONT></HTML> --part1_105.3070a825.2c1a1131_boundary--
(back) Subject: Re: German Reeds From: "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:39:41 -0400 On 6/11/03 5:07 PM, "John Foss" <email@example.com> wrote: > (I don't know the Spanish idiom for "raison > d'etre" Razon de estar? Alan
(back) Subject: Wedding fee From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:12:35 EDT The best way to be a success at the wedding game is to establish $250,000,000.00 as your standard wedding fee, and not deviate from it. While it is unlikely that anybody would pay an organist a quarter of a = billion dollars to play for their wedding, one only needs to do this once, = and then one may retire.
(back) Subject: Re: wedding fee question From: "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:59:12 -0400 I have a problem similar to Margo's. We do allow non-members to use the church for weddings. Some aren't even = of the same denomination. Usually local people. Glad to see them get = married at all nowadays, and especially glad to see them get married in a church. There's one coming up in the next week or two. They asked the lady = from a church in the next village to play organ. This happens a lot. She has been the music teacher in the school. My husband and I just spent all day yesterday working with organ = service to get that pipe organ tuned and some things working again, our one day = off a week. And we are involved in planning a major renovation of that instrument. I don't have a contract. And I haven't asked for any more money, = hoping any funds would go to the organ project. But most of the time, somebody else comes in and plays for a wedding---and of course gets the money. There are only a few in a year, = so it's not a big deal, but it bugs me. And then there are the church funerals. There's one particular old family undertaker business that most people go to, especially for a church funeral, and he has a woman who plays organ for him. What really bothers me is that she was a leader of the group that left this church and started another one, caused a terrible rift and a lot of hurt feelings in town 30 yrs. ago. But she's here every time somebody = dies, happily playing this organ that I worked so hard to get patched together again from neglect after she left. The Worship and Music committee is meeting next week. If I'm going to have the responsibility of a many thousand dollar renovation project, it's time for a change in policy. Not that I'm all that big on funerals, although I sure could use the money. It's the principal of the thing. Wish I could talk as well as I can play. I hate committee meetings. Too many people on a power trip---argue, argue, argue. Guess that's what I'm doing too? Well, I have gotten a lot out of all your comments. Thank you very much. Maybe it's time I stood up for myself. Diane S. Almond, NY soggy but lush southwest NYS
(back) Subject: Again: wedding stories from another world From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:16:37 -0400 Andres Gunther email@example.com This wedding fee thread was absolutely fascinating- no kidding. How different appreciations can be indeed! In my country: No Guild; less a bench fee. The Organ is owned by the = parish- so everybody who is authorized by the parish can "drop in and play" [and = if the parish says "no", nothing to do]. Period.- I use to notify my = colleague anyway when I have to play a wedding in another church. Usual glad answer: "You're welcome, my friend- this way I can enjoy my saturday evening"... The parish pays the masses but wedding music affairs have to be solved = among the weds and the Organist. If the weds are venezuelans, paying must be demanded in advance, otherwise I never see the money.- Sometimes, Praise bands sing on weddings, but the Wagner-Mendessohn always is the organist's task. (Imagine the wedding marches twanged on a guitar- = no keyboards, our praise bands usually don't have such specialists in their ranks :) A lot of funny things more can happen: -A time ago the parishes started to collect an "organ fee": "You charge wicked sums for your service and then consume *our* organ and *our* = electric power", they said. We played the weddings on battery powered keyboards = then, previous explanation to the weds why. The idea with the organ fee was swiftly dismissed... -Once, in a "ghetto parish", although all was arranged with the couple, = the parish came with red face and flying cassock calling me a crook for = charging "such a wicked sum" (20 bucks); and that I would do better dying of shame for my ravishness and lack of social conscience. I will spare further details; enough to tell: I won, but don't play weddings anymore in that church. -Once, a couple called me for an interview; made me play the wedding = marches and sing the "Ave Maria"- and then decided to hire other guy who made it = for 15 bucks. Since then, if the weds want a 'proof of my Art' they may came = to my parish at 5,00 pm and hear me play and sing the mass. -And yes... there are some "colleagues" who collect their payment in = advance and then don't show up. These guys never stay for long in business however because the "jungle drum" is our best weapon. Forget about a lawsuit here- such a legal proceeding lasts years and costs almost the whole sued = amount- *if* the veredict isn't appealed. (Organ builders shall be warned for this when signing a contract in a so called "third world country"). I far prefer the technical aspect of my profession. <chuckle> BTW the thing with the "Taco Bell Canon" made my day! :) Cheers Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.
(back) Subject: RE: German Reeds From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:24:35 -0400 Andres Gunther email@example.com John Foss wrote: > May I gently suggest that the reeds in German organs fulfil a different > function to those on French, Spanish and UK instruments? They are inten= ded > to blend with the flue choruses rather than dominate or swamp them. Absolutely right. Other countries, other customs as we say. More below... > Now Spanish Reeds are the "raison > d'etre" for Spanish organs (I don't know the Spanish idiom for "raison > d'etre"! Any Spanish speaking members out there? Raison d'etre =3D Razon de ser =3D a reason to be (or exist) Now, there goes my question that could be of interest for all: What's the technical reason that reeds sound so *different* from a countr= y to another: Scale? Resonator form? metal alloy? Tongue thicknes/hardness/alloy/treatment? Shallot shape? I am technician, not builder. The differences I could appreciate for now are: -wider scale in french reeds than in german reeds. -French shallots are domed and open; german shallots are square and have = a triangle shaped opening; some of our modern spanish reed shallots are ope= n, square, but with a 45=BA cap. (Reference stop: Trompette) Cheers Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.