PipeChat Digest #3760 - Tuesday, June 17, 2003
 
RE: ENOUGH!  Re: Yet another musician bites the dust (x post)
  by "andrew meagher" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
RE: ENOUGH!  Re: Yet another musician bites the dust (x post)
  by "andrew meagher" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
Re: Piporg-I
  by <Thpallesco@aol.com>
Re: Piporg-I
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: RE: ENOUGH! Re: Yet another musician bites the dust (x post) From: "andrew meagher" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:19:14 -0400   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0043_01C33466.1614DB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Wow, I am surprised that the rector didn't get fired for throwing a chair. That is an assault. He could be criminally charged for that. -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of ScottFop@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:19 PM To: anglican-music@list.stsams.org; pipechat@pipechat.org; piporg-l@listserv.albany.edu Cc: djapple@bellsouth.net; RMB10@aol.com; brjoel@cbhs.org; office@rgcapraorgans.com; Shcspc@aol.com; paulcunn@lcs.net; Steve4461new@aol.com; Devon3000@aol.com; mjmms@bellsouth.net; rlewis055@aol.com; scott@fpcaustin.org; BMILOCHE@aol.com; CNOLEN@CDOM.org; mrsjane@bellsouth.net; Mark85inCT@aol.com; bmw_2@email.msn.com Subject: ENOUGH! Re: Yet another musician bites the dust (x post)     I am crossing bulletin board lines here as this was originally posted to the Anglican Musicians list, but it runs in parallel to recent topics on other lists as well, and contains some very serious areas that all professional church musicians should seriously consider. Preston's words struck a chord in me that made me realize that I have something to say on this. Its been quite awhile since I contributed my opinion on something = to the degree that I do below (yes, I proofread my own words several times before sending), but it has gotten to the point that I do wish to say something in support of the musicians who have been steadily losing their jobs in recent times at the hands of "holy people." -SF   * * * * *   In a message dated 6/12/03 7:03:20 PM Central Daylight Time, hpb@hotmail.com writes:     This particular situation may have been resolved by the time y'all get this, but the mother of a good friend of mine was fired from her O/CM gig in Paris (TX) last week. Their rector, who, I am told, has serious "anger management issues" (he is reported to have once hurled a folding chair across a room at his deacon), apparently snuck the dismissal into the notes at the end = of a vestry meeting.     That's because too many rectors are insane and shouldn't be in the ministry to begin with. That seems to be happening quite a bit in Texas, = it seems. Trust me, I have recent first hand experience of my own in that regard, as do many of us on these lists. And it's a damn sad thing for = our profession to see this happening with the frequency it is. Now, these statements do not apply to every rector or senior pastor, of course, by = any means.   How many little black boxes are currently drawn around church listings = in the back of TAO these days? The number certainly does seem to be growing and a couple of those churches have had the little black box around them = for two or three years now.   Any word on Donald Pearson in Denver? A fine musician and indeed a = fine, lengthy legacy of exemplary music making and liturgy. There's another example of "Rector's pleasure" right there. I wonder how they'd feel if = the "pleasure" were on the other foot (so to speak) and THEY (the = rector/pastor) were getting the boot. Some of these "clergy" just chew people up and = spit them out again on a whim, thereby ruining reputations, incomes, careers = and, in some cases, pensions in the process while they come out in the end completely unscathed and smelling like a rose. And WHY is it allowed to continue? Now, that is NOT to say that the musicians in question are completely without fault, but the clergy must be held accountable at times as well. It is NOT ALWAYS the musician's fault despite the large number = of clergy would try to make that seem the case.   When do MOST of the clashes occur? I dare say that the clashes occur = when the rector or senior pastor feels that they know more about music than the professional musician that THEY hired to perform the job of parish = musician. When the clergy sees that the musician is not a "yes man" and just may have a mind of his own, it's at that point that the fragile little clerical ego gets bruised and proceedings are begun to oust the unknowing musician who = is trying to make a living by doing what he was trained to do and has devoted his life to for so many years. I worked for one individual that wore a collar that knew more than I or my assistant about organ playing, registration, hymn tempi, choral training, rehearsal techniques, pianos, pipe organs, organ voicing, organ regulation, organ tuning, organ = circuitry, organ winding, hymnals, solos, vocal pedagogy, conducting (instrumental = and choral) and and and. (Get the picture?) Impossible situation all the way around. Not difficult, IMPOSSIBLE, and it will more than likely never change while the parish is under said administration no matter who holds = the title of "Director of Music." Trust me- sadly, their position is in title only.   I must also state my opinion of the recent thread on wedding fees and church councils and clergy setting the musicians' fees for such. I would never accept a job where it was even suggested that clergy or a council or other committee would set my fees. That happened in one interview, I didn't accept the job and moved on. I am the one doing the playing, I am the one doing the preparation with the bridal couple or, in the case of a funeral, the family. And while a funeral is a completely different area than a wedding, there is still preparation and professional time given by the musician in providing music for the services. The keys to that as = well as all employment terms are:   1. realistic, honest and open communication during the interview/hiring process 2. a WRITTEN contract and job description mutually agreed upon BEFORE signing   It should go without saying that a musician who has been interviewed, auditioned, offered a position and agreed upon the terms of that = employment with the clergy and/or church business administration, should not play one note or give one downbeat until the contract and ALL of the job duties and responsibilities are finalized, written out, agreed upon and THEN signed = by BOTH parties. I cannot stress this enough.   But regarding the alarming number of church musicians getting booted in very recent months, it really makes one wonder what is happening in our profession, not to mention the Christian Church, doesn't it? Christian? Perhaps that term right there should come under close scrutiny as well in regard to the hiring and staffing practices of some religious = institutions.   Signed (in bold and italics):   Scott F. Foppiano, Memphis, TN Cantantibus organis Caecilia Domino decantabat.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0043_01C33466.1614DB40 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii">     <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D718231804-17062003><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D size=3D3D2>Wow, I=3D20 am surprised that the rector didn't get fired for throwing a =3D chair.&nbsp; That=3D20 is an assault.&nbsp; He could be criminally charged for=3D20 that.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=3D3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3D3Dltr align=3D3Dleft><FONT =3D face=3D3DTahoma=3D20 size=3D3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =3D pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]<B>On Behalf Of=3D20 </B>ScottFop@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:19=3D20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> anglican-music@list.stsams.org; =3D pipechat@pipechat.org;=3D20 piporg-l@listserv.albany.edu<BR><B>Cc:</B> djapple@bellsouth.net;=3D20 RMB10@aol.com; brjoel@cbhs.org; office@rgcapraorgans.com; =3D Shcspc@aol.com;=3D20 paulcunn@lcs.net; Steve4461new@aol.com; Devon3000@aol.com;=3D20 mjmms@bellsouth.net; rlewis055@aol.com; scott@fpcaustin.org; =3D BMILOCHE@aol.com;=3D20 CNOLEN@CDOM.org; mrsjane@bellsouth.net; Mark85inCT@aol.com;=3D20 bmw_2@email.msn.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> ENOUGH! Re: Yet another =3D musician bites=3D20 the dust (x post)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT =3D face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D3D0=3D20 face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF">I am crossing bulletin = =3D board lines here=3D20 as this was originally posted to the Anglican Musicians list, but it =3D runs in=3D20 parallel to recent topics on other lists as well, and contains some =3D very=3D20 serious areas that all professional church musicians should = seriously=3D20 consider.&nbsp;&nbsp; Preston's words struck a chord in me that made =3D me=3D20 realize that I have something to say on this.&nbsp; Its been quite =3D awhile=3D20 since I contributed my opinion on something to the degree that I do =3D below=3D20 (yes, I proofread my own words several times before sending), but it =3D has=3D20 gotten to the point that I do wish to say something in support of = the=3D20 musicians who have been steadily losing their jobs in recent times at = =3D the=3D20 hands of "holy people."&nbsp; -SF<BR>&nbsp; <BR>*&nbsp; *&nbsp; =3D *&nbsp;=3D20 *&nbsp; *<BR><BR>In a message dated 6/12/03 7:03:20 PM Central =3D Daylight Time,=3D20 hpb@hotmail.com writes:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = =3D solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=3D20 TYPE=3D3D"CITE">This particular situation may have been resolved by the = =3D time=3D20 y'all get this, <BR>but the mother of a good friend of mine was =3D fired from=3D20 her O/CM gig in Paris <BR>(TX) last week.&nbsp; Their rector, who, I = =3D am=3D20 told, has serious "anger management <BR>issues" (he is reported to =3D have once=3D20 hurled a folding chair across a room at <BR>his deacon), apparently = =3D snuck=3D20 the dismissal into the notes at the end of a <BR>vestry=3D20 meeting.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>That's because too many rectors are =3D insane and=3D20 shouldn't be in the ministry to begin with.&nbsp; That seems to be =3D happening=3D20 quite a bit in Texas, it seems.&nbsp; Trust me, I have recent first =3D hand=3D20 experience of my own in that regard, as do many of us on these =3D lists.&nbsp;=3D20 And it's a damn sad thing for our profession to see this happening =3D with the=3D20 frequency it is.&nbsp; Now, these statements do not apply to every =3D rector or=3D20 senior pastor, of course, by any means.<BR><BR>How many little black =3D boxes are=3D20 currently drawn around church listings in the back of TAO these =3D days?&nbsp;=3D20 The number certainly does seem to be growing and a couple of those =3D churches=3D20 have had the little black box around them for two or three years=3D20 now.<BR><BR>Any word on Donald Pearson in Denver?&nbsp; A fine =3D musician and=3D20 indeed a fine, lengthy legacy of exemplary music making and =3D liturgy.&nbsp;=3D20 There's another example of "Rector's pleasure" right there.&nbsp; I =3D wonder how=3D20 they'd feel if the "pleasure" were on the other foot (so to speak) and = =3D THEY=3D20 (the rector/pastor) were getting the boot.&nbsp; Some of these =3D "clergy" just=3D20 chew people up and spit them out again on a whim, thereby ruining =3D reputations,=3D20 incomes, careers and, in some cases, pensions in the process while =3D they come=3D20 out in the end completely unscathed and smelling like a rose.&nbsp; =3D And WHY is=3D20 it allowed to continue?&nbsp; Now, that is NOT to say that the =3D musicians in=3D20 question are completely without fault, but the clergy must be held =3D accountable=3D20 at times as well.&nbsp; It is NOT ALWAYS the musician's fault despite = =3D the=3D20 large number of clergy would try to make that seem the =3D case.<BR><BR>When do=3D20 MOST of the clashes occur?&nbsp; I dare say that the clashes occur =3D when the=3D20 rector or senior pastor feels that they know more about music than the = =3D   professional musician that THEY hired to perform the job of parish=3D20 musician.&nbsp; When the clergy sees that the musician is not a "yes =3D man" and=3D20 just may have a mind of his own, it's at that point that the fragile =3D little=3D20 clerical ego gets bruised and proceedings are begun to oust the =3D unknowing=3D20 musician who is trying to make a living by doing what he was trained =3D to do and=3D20 has devoted his life to for so many years.&nbsp; I worked for one =3D individual=3D20 that wore a collar that knew more than I or my assistant about organ =3D playing,=3D20 registration, hymn tempi, choral training, rehearsal techniques, =3D pianos, pipe=3D20 organs, organ voicing, organ regulation, organ tuning, organ =3D circuitry, organ=3D20 winding, hymnals, solos, vocal pedagogy, conducting (instrumental and = =3D choral)=3D20 and and and.&nbsp; (Get the picture?)&nbsp; Impossible situation all =3D the way=3D20 around.&nbsp; Not difficult, IMPOSSIBLE, and it will more than likely = =3D never=3D20 change while the parish is under said administration no matter who =3D holds the=3D20 title of "Director of Music."&nbsp; Trust me- sadly, their position is = =3D in=3D20 title only.<BR><BR>I must also state my opinion of the recent thread =3D on=3D20 wedding fees and church councils and clergy setting the musicians' =3D fees for=3D20 such.&nbsp; I would never accept a job where it was even suggested =3D that clergy=3D20 or a council or other committee would set my fees.&nbsp;&nbsp; That =3D happened=3D20 in one interview, I didn't accept the job and moved on.&nbsp;&nbsp; I = =3D am the=3D20 one doing the playing, I am the one doing the preparation with the =3D bridal=3D20 couple or, in the case of a funeral, the family.&nbsp; And while a =3D funeral is=3D20 a completely different area than a wedding, there is still preparation = =3D and=3D20 professional time given by the musician in providing music for the=3D20 services.&nbsp; The keys to that as well as all employment terms=3D20 are:<BR><BR>1. realistic, honest and open communication during the=3D20 interview/hiring process<BR>2. a WRITTEN contract and job description = =3D mutually=3D20 agreed upon BEFORE signing<BR><BR>It should go without saying that a =3D musician=3D20 who has been interviewed, auditioned, offered a position and agreed =3D upon the=3D20 terms of that employment with the clergy and/or church business=3D20 administration, should not play one note or give one downbeat until =3D the=3D20 contract and ALL of the job duties and responsibilities are finalized, = =3D written=3D20 out, agreed upon and THEN signed by BOTH parties.&nbsp; I cannot =3D stress this=3D20 enough.<BR><BR>But regarding the alarming number of church musicians =3D getting=3D20 booted in very recent months, it really makes one wonder what is =3D happening in=3D20 our profession, not to mention the Christian Church, doesn't it?&nbsp; = =3D   Christian?&nbsp; Perhaps that term right there should come under close = =3D   scrutiny as well in regard to the hiring and staffing practices of =3D some=3D20 religious institutions.<BR><BR>Signed (in bold and=3D20 italics):<BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: = =3D #ffffff"=3D20 face=3D3D"Monotype Corsiva" color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D4 =3D FAMILY=3D3D"SCRIPT"><B>Scott F.=3D20 Foppiano</FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = =3D face=3D3DArial=3D20 color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"></B>,&nbsp; Memphis, = =3D TN<BR>Cantantibus=3D20 organis Caecilia Domino decantabat.</FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D3D"Monotype Corsiva" =3D color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2=3D20 FAMILY=3D3D"SCRIPT"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0043_01C33466.1614DB40--    
(back) Subject: RE: ENOUGH! Re: Yet another musician bites the dust (x post) From: "andrew meagher" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:28:41 -0400   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0048_01C33467.67ED8100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   As I said when I read the ad for your position, the job is too big for one person so I didn't apply. They really need a music director AND an associate music director at your church. It's way too big a job for one person. Good luck finding another job. -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Innkawgneeto@cs.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 9:44 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: ENOUGH! Re: Yet another musician bites the dust (x post)     Seeing as how I am one that has bitten the dust this year...   My pastor and I met the other day. Among other things discussed, he = made it clear to me that my firing did NOT come from him, but rather the committee. I had suspected that, and he confirmed it. He and I have had = a wonderful working relationship.   The reason "I no longer fit" at my church is primarily because there are too many bosses, too much work, and too little assistance. Meaning, whenever the powers-that-be have some type of celebration or party, they always insist that I "do music" for it -- I almost always refuse, having conferred with the pastor.   Three morning worship services, 7 choirs and a praise team aren't enough for me to do, I guess.   But God is good...He is working in my life...I can feel it and have confidence that He will provide for my family and me.   So, in the immortal words of the great black American preacher (whose = name escapes me at the moment)... PRESS ON.   Neil Brown     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0048_01C33467.67ED8100 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii">     <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D343282704-17062003><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D size=3D3D2>As I=3D20 said when I read the ad for your position, the job is too big for one =3D person so=3D20 I didn't apply.&nbsp; They really need a music director AND an associate = =3D music=3D20 director at your church.&nbsp; It's way too big a job for one =3D person.&nbsp; Good=3D20 luck finding another job.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=3D3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3D3Dltr align=3D3Dleft><FONT =3D face=3D3DTahoma=3D20 size=3D3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =3D pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]<B>On Behalf Of=3D20 </B>Innkawgneeto@cs.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 13, 2003 9:44=3D20 AM<BR><B>To:</B> pipechat@pipechat.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: ENOUGH! = =3D Re: Yet=3D20 another musician bites the dust (x post)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT=3D20 face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D3D0 face=3D3DArial size=3D3D3 =3D FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF">Seeing=3D20 as how I am one that has bitten the dust this year...<BR><BR>My pastor = =3D and I=3D20 met the other day.&nbsp; Among other things discussed, he made it =3D clear to me=3D20 that my firing did NOT come from him, but rather the committee.&nbsp; = =3D I had=3D20 suspected that, and he confirmed it.&nbsp; He and I have had a =3D wonderful=3D20 working relationship.<BR><BR>The reason "I no longer fit" at my church = =3D is=3D20 primarily because there are too many bosses, too much work, and too =3D little=3D20 assistance.&nbsp; Meaning, whenever the powers-that-be have some type = =3D of=3D20 celebration or party, they always insist that I "do music" for it -- I = =3D almost=3D20 always refuse, having conferred with the pastor.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Three =3D morning=3D20 worship services, 7 choirs and a praise team aren't enough for me to =3D do, I=3D20 guess.<BR><BR>But God is good...He is working in my life...I can feel = =3D it and=3D20 have confidence that He will provide for my family and me.&nbsp; =3D <BR><BR>So,=3D20 in the immortal words of the great black American preacher (whose name =3D escapes=3D20 me at the moment)...&nbsp; PRESS ON.<BR><BR>Neil=3D20 Brown<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0048_01C33467.67ED8100--    
(back) Subject: Re: Piporg-I From: <Thpallesco@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 02:14:48 EDT     --part1_103.308395a6.2c200bd8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi.   I registered myself at Piporg-I two months ago and I have not recieved the =   authorization for posting messages yet ! But I think at present it must be = much difficult to recieve the authorization when you are a french organist, and =   yet, personally, I am also a composer. These are strange times we're = living in. Who said that Music was universal ?   Thierry Pallesco french organist and composer (published in France and Germany ; distribued = by www.di-arezzo.com) website (also in english) : http://members.aol.com/thierrypallesco.accueil.htm   --part1_103.308395a6.2c200bd8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"1">Hi.<BR> <BR> I registered myself at Piporg-I two months ago and I have not recieved the = a=3D uthorization for posting messages yet ! But I think at present it must be = mu=3D ch difficult to recieve the authorization when you are a french organist, = an=3D d yet, personally, I am also a composer. These are strange times we're = livin=3D g in. Who said that Music was universal ?<BR> <BR> <B>Thierry Pallesco</B><BR> french organist and composer (published in France and Germany ; distribued = b=3D y www.di-arezzo.com)<BR> website (also in english) : = http://members.aol.com/thierrypallesco.accueil.h=3D tm</FONT></HTML>   --part1_103.308395a6.2c200bd8_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Piporg-I From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 02:28:51 EDT     --part1_179.1be4ba24.2c200f23_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Hi Thierry:   All you really need to do now is ask for posting priveleges from David K. He sent out a message a day or so ago telling how to get posting privelege. I don't see that you will have any trouble obtaining=3D20 it. You've got good credentials and we would love to read your posts.   Here is how to do it>   Just a reminder!=3DA0 In order to be granted posting privileges to = PIPORG-L, you must:   1.=3DA0 Using your real name, subscribe to and read the list, without = posting privileges, for at least two weeks.   2.=3DA0 Read, become familiar with, and agree to adhere to our 'Guidelines = for Posting' (sent to all new subscribers, and available at the PIPORG-L website or on request).   3.=3DA0 Send an e-mail to the list owner, at <<A = HREF=3D3D"mailto:piporg.subscri=3D be@albany.edu">piporg.subscribe@albany.edu</A>> with the following information: =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 --Your real name =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 --Your (snail) mailing address =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 --Your telephone number =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 --Your professional affiliation (if = any) =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 --Some information about yourself and = your interest in=3D the organ =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 --A statement that you have read and = agree to abide by=3D our =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 'Guidelines for Posting'   Within a reasonable amount of time after we receive this information (needed to verify that you are who you say you are), and assuming that you have met the two-week subscription requirement, you will receive notification via e-mail that you have been granted posting privileges.   Note that we do require all subscribers to subscribe using their real names, and that we may use this provided information to verify your identity.=3DA0 If we are unable to do so, you will not be granted posting privileges.   I regret that this procedure for achieving full posting status to PIPORG-L has become necessary. Unfortunately, it was necessitated by a few individuals who subscribed under false identities, for the sole purpose of verbally attacking other subscribers.=3DA0 Hopefully, this procedure will = put an end to that misuse of our resources.   David C. Kelzenberg List Owner, PIPORG-L/HPSCHD-L     Sincerely, Ron Severin   --part1_179.1be4ba24.2c200f23_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Hi Thierry:<BR> <BR> All you really need to do now is ask for posting<BR> priveleges from David K. He sent out a message<BR> a day or so ago telling how to get posting privelege.<BR> I don't see that you will have any trouble obtaining <BR> it. You've got good credentials and we would love to<BR> read your posts.<BR> <BR> Here is how to do it&gt;<BR> <BR> Just a reminder!=3DA0 In order to be granted posting privileges to = PIPORG-L,<B=3D R> you must:<BR> <BR> 1.=3DA0 Using your real name, subscribe to and read the list, without = posting<=3D BR> privileges, for at least two weeks.<BR> <BR> 2.=3DA0 Read, become familiar with, and agree to adhere to our 'Guidelines = for=3D <BR> Posting' (sent to all new subscribers, and available at the PIPORG-L<BR> website or on request).<BR> <BR> 3.=3DA0 Send an e-mail to the list owner, at &lt;<A = HREF=3D3D"mailto:piporg.subs=3D cribe@albany.edu">piporg.subscribe@albany.edu</A>&gt;<BR> with the following information:<BR> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 --Your real name<BR> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 --Your (snail) mailing address<BR> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 --Your telephone number<BR> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 --Your professional affiliation (if = any)<BR> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 --Some information about yourself and = your interest in=3D the organ<BR> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 --A statement that you have read and = agree to abide by=3D our<BR> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 'Guidelines for Posting'<BR> <BR> Within a reasonable amount of time after we receive this information<BR> (needed to verify that you are who you say you are), and assuming that = you<B=3D R> have met the two-week subscription requirement, you will receive<BR> notification via e-mail that you have been granted posting privileges.<BR> <BR> Note that we do require all subscribers to subscribe using their real<BR> names, and that we may use this provided information to verify your<BR> identity.=3DA0 If we are unable to do so, you will not be granted = posting<BR> privileges.<BR> <BR> I regret that this procedure for achieving full posting status to = PIPORG-L<B=3D R> has become necessary. Unfortunately, it was necessitated by a few<BR> individuals who subscribed under false identities, for the sole purpose = of<B=3D R> verbally attacking other subscribers.=3DA0 Hopefully, this procedure will = put<=3D BR> an end to that misuse of our resources.<BR> <BR> David C. Kelzenberg<BR> List Owner, PIPORG-L/HPSCHD-L<BR> <BR> <BR> Sincerely, Ron Severin</FONT></HTML>   --part1_179.1be4ba24.2c200f23_boundary--