PipeChat Digest #3533 - Tuesday, March 11, 2003
 
Re: Student seeks Used Bach Durpe V. 5
  by "Del Case" <dcase@puc.edu>
Re: releathering Moller chests
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: releathering Moller chests
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: Hot News Flash
  by "Bob Richardson" <bob@peak.org>
Re: Easter Suggestions?
  by <l2nn@juno.com>
RE: ANOTHER RANT
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
Re: Easter Suggestions?
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: releathering Moller chests
  by "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com>
Oboe
  by "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net>
Re: releathering Moller chests
  by "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net>
Re: releathering Moller chests
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Student seeks Used Bach Durpe V. 5 From: "Del Case" <dcase@puc.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:09:05 -0700       noel jones wrote: > > A student is in need of Vol. 5 of the Bach Dupre Edition...wants it for > the fingering. > > Anyone who might have a copy to sell, please email <cperry@us.ibm.com> > > I'd sell mine, but I'm not embarassed to admit, I need those fingerings! > > -- > noel jones, aago > athens, tennessee, usa     Please, please don't inflict all those torturous fingerings on anyone. = Been there, done that. Many European master classes specifically prohibit the use of this edition. It does things to Bach that he doesn't deserve. = Yeah, that is what I grew up with and used to teach. I was delighted when I = first "discovered" this unfortunate publication and was able to buy them all for $2.50 apiece through Foyle in London. How much easier Bach is without all that labyrinth of fingering goo.   BUT - - - - the other side of the coin is that to be musical, you must = develop a variety of touches so that there is continuity and not endless bumps.   Del W. Case Pacific Union College  
(back) Subject: Re: releathering Moller chests From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:12:11 -0600   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 4:41 PM Subject: Re: releathering Moller chests     > The Moller organ that I installed in my church is a 1926 model. It has = all > the original > chest leather. I shudder to think of when we need to redo it. > I don't understand the comment about "wholesale revoicing" the pipes. > In both cases the pipes stand over a valve that is directly below them, > The only difference, that I see, is in how they are opened. > If I had my way, in our situation, I would go for the electro mech. > If for no other reason than for the repair work in the future.   While it would be possible to put Reisner 601's or Wicks d.e. magnets = under the toeboards of your Moller and convert it to electro-mechanical = operation, I would suggest that this would have an adverse effect on the sound of the instrument. The pipes were originally voiced to be on Moller pitmnan = chests and will sound best on these. Moller pitman chests are relatively easy to releather (at least in comparison with other kinds like Skinners) and will work reliably for many years. I seem to recall a few years back that converting the organ at the National Cathedral to electro-mechanical operation a few years back was abandoned part way through when the effect = it was having on the sound of the instrument became apparent. I would, however, recommend replacing the Moller electro-pneumatic relays with new solid state ones, since Moller relays can rarely be restored = satisfactorily. By the way, if the original leather is still working after 77 years, I = would have thought that this would be a good advertisement in itself.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: releathering Moller chests From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 21:37:57 EST     --part1_28.34ee60c4.2b9ea605_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 3/10/2003 8:52:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, quilisma@socal.rr.com writes:     > But I'd like to hear comments about changing > Moller pitman chests to electro-mechanical action from builders who've > had experience (1) doing it, or (2) working on organs where it's been > done, as the question often comes up when I consult with churches that > have old Moller organs. >   Moller chests are not difficult to convert to electro-mechanical chests. = In general, the spacing of pipes even in the treble range is controlled by = the minimum diameter of the pouch well, which requires as much physical seperation as using either a Reisner 601 or Peterson note-action magnet. = I like to mount the action unit on a replacement "pouchboard" rather than directly on the toe-board, with some looping of the feed wires to allow = for removal for servicing. the replacement pouchboard also alows for the use = of cross-channeling or expansion chambers which minimise the explosive attack =   puff that can be a problem with electro-magnetic note actions.   Releathering Moller chests is straight forward, even replacing the pitmans =   and retainers is simple enough...the one cavaet is in rebuilding DUPLEXED Moller pitman chests, because of the problems assoicated with the shifters =   and the channeling in which they operate becoming out-of-round (ovaling of =   the cross-channel hole in the side-wall of the chests, and unven wear of = the dowel from which the shifter is made). And of course there is the consideration of the use of lead tubing in older chests, where lead = sugaring is preventing the tubing from allowing a free flow of air thru.   Moller chests, either duplex or stringht pitman can be easily converted to =   unit chests by making new bottom boards with one magnet per pouch so that = the magnet channeling aligns with the note channeling in the side wall of the chest.   Rick in VA   --part1_28.34ee60c4.2b9ea605_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>In a message dated = 3/10/2=3D 003 8:52:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, quilisma@socal.rr.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-=3D LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">But I'd like to hear = commen=3D ts about changing <BR>Moller pitman chests to electro-mechanical action from builders who've <BR>had experience (1) doing it, or (2) working on organs where it's been <BR>done, as the question often comes up when I consult with churches that <BR>have old Moller organs.=3D20 <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>Moller chests are not difficult to convert to electro-mechanical = chests.=3D In general, the spacing of pipes even in the treble range is controlled = by=3D20=3D the minimum diameter of the pouch well, which requires as much physical = sepe=3D ration as using either a Reisner 601 or Peterson note-action magnet. = &nbsp;I=3D like to mount the action unit on a replacement "pouchboard" rather than = dir=3D ectly on the toe-board, with some looping of the feed wires to allow for = rem=3D oval for servicing. the replacement pouchboard also alows for the = &nbsp;use=3D20=3D of cross-channeling or expansion chambers which minimise the explosive = attac=3D k puff that can be a problem with electro-magnetic note actions. <BR> <BR>Releathering Moller chests is straight forward, even replacing the = pitma=3D ns and retainers is simple enough...the one cavaet is in rebuilding = DUPLEXED=3D Moller pitman chests, because of the problems assoicated with the = shifters=3D20=3D and the channeling in which they operate becoming out-of-round (ovaling of = t=3D he cross-channel hole in the side-wall of the chests, and unven wear of = the=3D20=3D dowel from which the shifter is made). And of course there is the = considerat=3D ion of the use of lead tubing in older chests, where lead sugaring is = preven=3D ting the tubing from allowing a free flow of air thru. <BR> <BR>Moller chests, either duplex or stringht pitman can be easily = converted=3D20=3D to unit chests by making new bottom boards with one magnet per pouch so = that=3D the magnet channeling aligns with the note channeling in the side wall of = t=3D he chest. <BR> <BR>Rick in VA</FONT></HTML>   --part1_28.34ee60c4.2b9ea605_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Hot News Flash From: "Bob Richardson" <bob@peak.org> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:56:13 -0800   Hi all -   I watched today's installment of "Monster Garage" with great interest, since my friend Steve was the team member charged with constructing the pipe organ.   I have not yet heard his opinion of the show, now that it has aired. He did promote it to friends via email a couple of weeks ago, so I assume = that he at least had a good time doing it.   I don't have high expectations at all for a show like "Monster Garage", = but I felt that they edited the show and wrote the narration specifically to play up the conflicts that occurred on the show, and to single out people for derision where none was due. In short, I think they portrayed Steve and his work in a negative light which was not warranted.   I met Steve a few years ago at Burning Man and last year he drove his "Satan's Calliope" flame-throwing organ over to my own "High Desert = Touring Classical Organ" camp for a duet, and I cherish that experience a great = deal.   As for the impatient boneheads who constituted much of the team, I dare them to find someone else who can build them a complete 1-rank nitrogen-powered calliope in less than 7 days... and how long would it = have taken them to build the steam-powered device they couldn't badger Steve into making?   All in all, fun TV, but paradoxically another nail in the coffin of Television in general.   My 2 hertz,   Bob Richardson bob@peak.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Easter Suggestions? From: <l2nn@juno.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:49:37 -0800   Any ideas for Easter pieces especially preludes? Organists I know have suggested Franck Chorales, Piece Heroique, Dandrieu O Filii et Filiae, and Bach's P&F in G.   I'm not crazy about the Franck pieces...and the Bach might be too hard for me to learn from scratch in 5 weeks.   Thanks for any suggestions!   Lynn Finegan Walnut Creek, CA  
(back) Subject: RE: ANOTHER RANT From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 22:44:19 -0500   Daryl Robinson writes:   > And I always think, WOW........that person would make a great typist, = all they did was get accuracy and play efficently.   About fifteen years ago, on a plane back from Europe as I recall, I saw a cute cartoon: a woman at a desk was busily typing away, with both hands = and feet, at several machines simultaneously. Behind her, her boss turned to = a visitor whom he was showing around the office, and said, "we look for = church organists with typing experience."   I posted a copy at my work station in the library, which contained two terminals side by side that needed to be used together, almost like in the cartoon, to transfer data. Colleagues got a kick out of it because they knew that I was an organist. I felt that this cartoon reflected = favorably (for a change) on organists as skilled and disciplined people who have become equipped to excel in various areas.   > My overall point I suppose is that I think the fall of the organ in this country atleast, and possibly others (Havent looked into that too much) is partly if not mostly to blame on those that play it........the organist.   An exhortation to try harder is always in order, provided that this is a matter of improving what we love and believe in doing, rather than trying frantically, wet fingers up in the breeze, to improve *on* it, if you understand what difference I have in mind. Daryl gave Diane Bish as an example. I haven't heard much of her playing, but what I have heard is respectable enough. Some do much worse in the name of popularizing the instrument (and, one suspects, are more interested in popularizing themselves). For all I know he is taking a good enough model. But if he thinks that looks don't matter when appealing to a large public, he is = very naive. And not being nearly as pretty as Diane Bish, I doubt that I would enjoy the same success even if I could play and talk exactly like her. = (Nor, I might add, would I as a gay person care to advance my career by working for people who were advancing theirs by insulting my brothers and = sisters).     Has the organ fallen? Yes, organs are much more expensive than they used = to be, but we can't do much about that besides put up for the time being with electronics where we find them. Yes, organ students are rarer than they used to be, but so are *serious* students of other classical instruments. My colleagues here in the school of music find that the average applicant doesn't play an instrument, read music, etc. as well as a decade or two = ago. This admission (!) is no particular reflexion on the quality of our = school, as it is a common experience nationwide.   I bet that more people hear a live performance (even though it might be a-live in the sense that Daryl seeks) on the organ every week than on any other instrument. This happens thanks to a lot of local yokels playing shabby instruments in hopeless buildings. Due to this experience, an average Joe may express an *opinion* of the organ. It probably has something of whimsical trivialization and tired caricature in it. So...? Most stereotypes and caricatures are unflattering, and Americans excel in trivializing anything that wants to be taken seriously as an intellectual = or aesthetic challenge.   But I'd like to hear their *opinion* of the oboe or the violoncello. Do they even have one? Do you envy the job prospects of an applied major in French horn?    
(back) Subject: Re: Easter Suggestions? From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:34:56 -0800   Benoit - Toccata and Fugue Libre on "Victimae Paschali Laudes" ... there's also an Easter Suite ... both out of print, but in most large libraries, so you can get 'em on interlibrary loan.   There's also a short Van Hulse prelude on Victimae paschali in Seven Preludes on Plainsong Hymns (?).   Lemmons - Fanfare - easy, flashy, fun - in Everybody's Favorite Organ Music   Dubois - Alleluia --- optional (?) brass   Dubois - Grand Choeur in B flat - in Twelve Pieces   Guilmant - O filii et filiae - fun to play   Karg-Elert - Praise the Lord with Trumpets and Cymbals, or whatever that is   Tournemire - the L'Orgue Mystique volume for Easter Day, but I forget what those are like ... some are short enough and easy enough, SORTA   Tournemire/Durufle - reconstruction of improv on Victimae paschali, but that's LOTS of notes (grin)   Langlais - Acclamations (Christus vincit) in Suite Medievale (?)   Langlais - Te Deum - 3 Gregorian Paraphrases (?) - that's not real hard, and it's fun to play       Cheers,   Bud       l2nn@juno.com wrote: > > Any ideas for Easter pieces especially preludes? Organists I know have > suggested Franck Chorales, Piece Heroique, Dandrieu O Filii et Filiae, > and Bach's P&F in G. > > I'm not crazy about the Franck pieces...and the Bach might be too hard > for me to learn from scratch in 5 weeks. > > Thanks for any suggestions! > > Lynn Finegan > Walnut Creek, CA > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: releathering Moller chests From: "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 23:08:54 -0600   As usual, I didn't make myself clear. I should have wrote that if I had my preference it would have been electo mech. Even so it would have been cost prohibitive. I did install all new solid state equipment. No more air pipes to the console and no more gang switches and so on. We don't have any plans to change it now that it is all installed. Luther -----Original Message----- From: John L. Speller <jlspeller@mindspring.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Monday, March 10, 2003 8:21 PM Subject: Re: releathering Moller chests     >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com> >To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 4:41 PM >Subject: Re: releathering Moller chests > > >> The Moller organ that I installed in my church is a 1926 model. >> >> If I had my way, in our situation, I would go for the electro mech. >> If for no other reason than for the repair work in the future.   > > I would, >however, recommend replacing the Moller electro-pneumatic relays with new >solid state ones, since Moller relays can rarely be restored satisfactorily. >By the way, if the original leather is still working after 77 years, I would >have thought that this would be a good advertisement in itself. > >John Speller >      
(back) Subject: Oboe From: "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 01:52:04 -0500   <<<<<<But I'd like to hear their *opinion* of the oboe or the violoncello. Do they even have one? Do you envy the job prospects of an applied major in French horn?>>>>   Both my daughters played oboe in high school and college, and won all the prizes that were available, including trips and college scholarship money. Daughter #2 really wanted to go to music college and major in oboe. = I'm afraid we had to spend quite a bit of effort gently guiding her in another direction, because the chances of getting a real job playing oboe are practically nil. Every big orchestra has one--------one. Maybe two at = the most. We told her to find a community band and keep right on enjoying it, = but study something else in college as a profession to make a living. So she's a florist-----every city, town and village in the country has = a plant and flower business, she can get a job or start a business anywhere. And the community band she found was absolutely delighted to get her! Big difference between being appreciated and having to fight for a position.   Diane S.      
(back) Subject: Re: releathering Moller chests From: "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 02:00:23 -0500   Keep talking fellas. I'm the one with the 2 church Moeller refurb projects, and I'm taking = it all in. Yep, 1923 leather is a big part of the problem, but it has held up extremely well. And I recently learned that there's more to the whole deal than I realized, with winding and wiring. And everything that comes apart has black dust in it------years of = steam engine soot. You suppose that's a preservative?   Grins, Diane S.    
(back) Subject: Re: releathering Moller chests From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 02:25:28 EST     --part1_14.c42b277.2b9ee968_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi Diane:   Those Mollers from 1923 that you have, have gotten 80 years of service on the original leathers. I wouldn't push them much further. The black powder is most likely not a preservative, but I think you are tongue in cheek on that one. If what you say is true, the church definately didn't get a lemon in 1923. It is high time to get cracking to keep the old dear going with new leather all around, and it's not cheap, but it has been a real bargain for all the years the church has gotten out of it. Time for bake sales, fund raising, etc. It can still be done for = the cost of a new toaster and will out last it by 60 years. 100k.   Ron   --part1_14.c42b277.2b9ee968_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Hi Diane:<BR> <BR> Those Mollers from 1923 that you have, have gotten 80 years of service<BR> on the original leathers. I wouldn't push them much further. The black<BR> powder is most likely not a preservative, but I think you are tongue<BR> in cheek on that one. If what you say is true, the church definately<BR> didn't get a lemon in 1923. It is high time to get cracking to keep = the<BR> old dear going with new leather all around, and it's not cheap, but<BR> it has been a real bargain for all the years the church has gotten out<BR> of it. Time for bake sales, fund raising, etc. It can still be done for = the<=3D BR> cost of a new toaster and will out last it by 60 years. 100k.<BR> <BR> Ron</FONT></HTML>   --part1_14.c42b277.2b9ee968_boundary--