PipeChat Digest #3541 - Friday, March 14, 2003
 
Re: Larry King the Organist/Composer
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: MP3's
  by "Travis L. Evans" <tevansmo@prodigy.net>
Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS?
  by "Bill Raty" <billious@billraty.com>
Re: Bruce  Cornely hymn at OHS
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS?
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com>
Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS?
  by "Vern Jones" <soundres@foothill.net>
RE: TWO OR THREE MANUALS?
  by "Bill Sebring" <baircub@austin.rr.com>
Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS?
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
Scintillating in Schenectady
  by "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Hymn to Alan Laufman
  by "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS?
  by "Vern Jones" <soundres@foothill.net>
Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS?
  by "Vern Jones" <soundres@foothill.net>
Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS?
  by <OrganMD@aol.com>
Old established organ builders
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Larry King the Organist/Composer From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:00:07 -0500   > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --B_3130434008_6605854 Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   On 3/13/03 5:20 PM, "ProOrgo53@aol.com" <ProOrgo53@aol.com> wrote:     > Yes, unfortunately, Larry King the NYC Organist/Composer died several = yea=3D rs > ago. But his composition, RESURRECTION is magnificent, nonetheless. >=3D20 >=3D20 Dale, thank you. I=3DB9d be happy to hear more about him, if you=3DB9re = inclined. And I hope that my silly line didn=3DB9t cause any pain to anyone.   Thanks for your kindness.   Alan   --B_3130434008_6605854 Content-type: text/html; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: Larry King the Organist/Composer</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D3D"Times New Roman">On 3/13/03 5:20 PM, = &quot;ProOrgo53@aol.com&qu=3D ot; &lt;ProOrgo53@aol.com&gt; wrote:<BR> <BR> </FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D3D"Times New Roman"><BR> <FONT SIZE=3D3D"2">Yes, unfortunately, Larry King the NYC = Organist/Composer die=3D d several years ago. &nbsp;But his composition, RESURRECTION is = magnificent,=3D nonetheless.<BR> <BR> </FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D3D"Times New Roman"><FONT = SIZE=3D3D"2"><BR> </FONT>Dale, thank you. &nbsp;I&#8217;d be happy to hear more about him, = if=3D you&#8217;re inclined. &nbsp;And I hope that my silly line didn&#8217;t = cau=3D se any pain to anyone. &nbsp;<BR> <BR> Thanks for your kindness.<BR> <BR> Alan</FONT> </BODY> </HTML>     --B_3130434008_6605854--    
(back) Subject: Re: MP3's From: "Travis L. Evans" <tevansmo@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:39:54 -0800 (PST)   --0-1702712593-1047609594=3D:75445 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii     There are a few Holy Cross Lutherans in the St. Louis Metro area. There = is Holy Cross Lutheran, in the City where Jeff White played. I play at = Holy Cross Lutheran, O'Fallon, MO which is west of St. Louis. Travis Alan Freed <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> wrote:On 3/13/03 10:30 AM, "Travis = L. Evans" <tevansmo@prodigy.net> wrote:   O'Fallon, Missouri, just west of St. Louis.   Travis   Trav: Holy Cross is in O=92Fallon? I=92m confused. Straighten me out?   And as long as I=92m confused anyway, and we have John Sebold on the line, = I have to ask HIM a question: Ascension ELCA on South Layton Blvd., = Milwaukee. What kind and size organ do they have=97and how old? If = it=92s post-1960, what was there before the current one? Thanks. (I used = to worship there, 1959-60; I MUST have checked the organ out, but in that = case it must have been eminently forgettable, for I have NO recollection = of it (other than location in west gallery).   Alan   --0-1702712593-1047609594=3D:75445 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii   <P>There are a few Holy Cross Lutherans in the St. Louis Metro area.&nbsp; = There is Holy Cross Lutheran, in the City where Jeff White played.&nbsp; I = play at Holy Cross Lutheran, O'Fallon, MO which is west of St. = Louis.&nbsp; <P>Travis <P>&nbsp;<B><I>Alan Freed &lt;acfreed0904@earthlink.net&gt;</I></B> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: = #1010ff 2px solid"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">On 3/13/03 10:30 AM, = "Travis L. Evans" &lt;tevansmo@prodigy.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">O'Fallon, Missouri, just west = of St. Louis. <BR><BR>Travis <BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT = face=3D"Times New Roman">Trav: &nbsp;Holy Cross is in O=92Fallon? = &nbsp;I=92m confused. &nbsp;Straighten me out? &nbsp;<BR><BR>And as long = as I=92m confused anyway, and we have John Sebold on the line, I have to = ask HIM a question: &nbsp;Ascension ELCA on South Layton Blvd., Milwaukee. = &nbsp;What kind and size organ do they have=97and how old? &nbsp;If it=92s = post-1960, what was there before the current one? &nbsp;Thanks. &nbsp;(I = used to worship there, 1959-60; I MUST have checked the organ out, but in = that case it must have been eminently forgettable, for I have NO = recollection of it (other than location in west = gallery).<BR><BR>Alan<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> --0-1702712593-1047609594=3D:75445--  
(back) Subject: Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS? From: "Bill Raty" <billious@billraty.com> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 19:25:10 -0800 (PST)     Here's a deliberately provocative question aimed at the purveyors of electronic instruments: with electronic components as inexpensive as they are, why aren't there a plethora of 3 manual, 45 rank equivalent instruments available at the $10-15K range?   I know this has to be possible, having worked in the semiconductor manufacturing field for 14 years. Look what has happened to the price of computers: the price is 1/10th what it was 20 years ago and the performance is 1500 times better (from the standpoint of instructions executed). Granted, the quantity of units sold isn't in the same league, but the fundamental guts are the same.   Just curious...   Regards,   -Bill         =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D    
(back) Subject: Re: Bruce Cornely hymn at OHS From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 22:37:05 EST     --part1_21.2cd53277.2ba2a861_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 3/13/03 5:15:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu writes:     > I've taken up on Malcolm's "joke" about the beagles and pondered with = Bruce > whether he might make a substitution, with the group singing "God Of Our =   > Fathers" and with the fanfare featuring three beagles instead of three > trumpets.   I checked with the Baskerbeagle's agent and they require a hotel suite = with a treat bar, maid, caterer, and a roast beef sculpture in their conference room. In addition, they don't want to fly because Molly would want to = play with the beagles in the airport. A stretch limo was suggested.   Negotiations continue.... arrrrrrroooooooooooooooooo   Bruce of Baskerbeagleville   Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at Howling Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502     --part1_21.2cd53277.2ba2a861_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>In a message dated = 3/13/0=3D 3 5:15:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu = writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-=3D LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> I've taken up on = Malcolm's=3D "joke" about the beagles and pondered with Bruce whether he might make a = su=3D bstitution, with the group singing "God Of Our Fathers" and with the = fanfare=3D featuring three beagles instead of three trumpets. </FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D3D"#=3D 000000" SIZE=3D3D3 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" = LANG=3D3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE=3D > <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Ar=3D ial" LANG=3D3D"0"> <BR>I checked with the Baskerbeagle's agent and they require a hotel suite = w=3D ith a treat bar, maid, caterer, and a roast beef sculpture in their = conferen=3D ce room. &nbsp;&nbsp;In addition, they don't want to fly because Molly = would=3D want to play with the beagles in the airport. &nbsp;&nbsp;A stretch limo = wa=3D s suggested. <BR> <BR>Negotiations continue.... arrrrrrroooooooooooooooooo <BR> <BR>Bruce of Baskerbeagleville <BR> <BR>Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui &nbsp;in the Muttastery at Howling = Ac=3D res http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_21.2cd53277.2ba2a861_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS? From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 22:43:38 -0500   At 07:25 PM 3/13/2003 -0800, you wrote:   >Here's a deliberately provocative question aimed at the >purveyors of electronic instruments: with electronic >components as inexpensive as they are, why aren't there a >plethora of 3 manual, 45 rank equivalent instruments available >at the $10-15K range? > >I know this has to be possible, having worked in the >semiconductor manufacturing field for 14 years. Look what has >happened to the price of computers: the price is 1/10th what it >was 20 years ago and the performance is 1500 times better (from >the standpoint of instructions executed). Granted, the >quantity of units sold isn't in the same league, but the >fundamental guts are the same. > >Just curious... > >Regards, > >-Bill   Bill,   The cost of an electronic organ, is more than just a few electronic = circuit boards. It is true that in and of themselves they don't cost much. Where =   there is cost though is the R & D, which must be paid back for in relatively few units, the cost of things like keyboards, the pedalboards, the console and related hardware has not gone down, the cost of transporting, the cost of installing is not cheap etc., and the people involved have to bread on the table.   Now Bill, here is a challenge for you. If you think electronic organs are =   overpriced, try making one yourself starting with a clean slate. See how far you get before the $15,000 mark is surpassed. I will even let you use =   a standard PC as your main starting block.   very curious...................   Arie V.   P.S. Try building a car from bits and pieces, and you will find that for your effort you could get a readymade car for less.      
(back) Subject: Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS? From: "Vern Jones" <soundres@foothill.net> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:04:04 -0800   It is possible to do this in today's MIDI world, but a large percentage of a 3 Manual organ console of any type, PIPE or Electronic, if built to standards with combination actions, drawnobs or magnetic stop tablets is somewhere in the neighborhood of $5K to $10K just for a decent performing console. Let's say it controls up to 4 Ahlborn Units, another $10K, then to make it sound even halfway decent it has to have a decent speaking system, another $2K to $3K. Sort of blows the $10K to $15K.   The technology employed is not the same as used in the average PC. Highlevel DSP technology is employed to generate the sounds. If 45 ranks are to be simulated with anything approaching what a 45 rank instrument is supposed to sound like, then quite a few of these will be needed. I'm sure Rodgers and Allen as well as some of the other DSP technology organ builders will say this as well. Even with todays technology, it isn't easy to do it right. Part of the price is the R & D to make them sound as good as they do. It is still a specialty market, the R & D costs is spread over a few users, not millions like in the PC world.   Have you priced an IBM SP2 System, or a SUN E20K, these computers are in a small volume high performance bracket. Priced at many times the price of a PC, and they are not even in the Mainframe category.   I'm just a small firm, and couldn't come close to it at $10 to $15K even using Ahlborn Units.   Vern, Sound Research   Bill Raty wrote: > > Here's a deliberately provocative question aimed at the > purveyors of electronic instruments: with electronic > components as inexpensive as they are, why aren't there a > plethora of 3 manual, 45 rank equivalent instruments available > at the $10-15K range? > > I know this has to be possible, having worked in the > semiconductor manufacturing field for 14 years. Look what has > happened to the price of computers: the price is 1/10th what it > was 20 years ago and the performance is 1500 times better (from > the standpoint of instructions executed). Granted, the > quantity of units sold isn't in the same league, but the > fundamental guts are the same. > > Just curious... > > Regards, > > -Bill > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: RE: TWO OR THREE MANUALS? From: "Bill Sebring" <baircub@austin.rr.com> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 22:11:52 -0600   Though of course, in defense of technology pricing....the cost of synthesizers isn't what it used to be, and the amount of technology = involved really isn't anymore difficult than what's going on with organ building, with regards to sampling technology.   You do make a good point, and I figured your explanation and that of = Arie's hit the nail on the head.   Still my partner does make a very valid point. People do give the excuse that it's their limited market that explains high prices, but if you're going to want to increase your market share, then make the price a bit = more within reach.   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Vern Jones Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 10:04 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS?     It is possible to do this in today's MIDI world, but a large percentage of a 3 Manual organ console of any type, PIPE or Electronic, if built to standards with combination actions, drawnobs or magnetic stop tablets is somewhere in the neighborhood of $5K to $10K just for a decent performing console. Let's say it controls up to 4 Ahlborn Units, another $10K, then to make it sound even halfway decent it has to have a decent speaking system, another $2K to $3K. Sort of blows the $10K to $15K.   The technology employed is not the same as used in the average PC. Highlevel DSP technology is employed to generate the sounds. If 45 ranks are to be simulated with anything approaching what a 45 rank instrument is supposed to sound like, then quite a few of these will be needed. I'm sure Rodgers and Allen as well as some of the other DSP technology organ builders will say this as well. Even with todays technology, it isn't easy to do it right. Part of the price is the R & D to make them sound as good as they do. It is still a specialty market, the R & D costs is spread over a few users, not millions like in the PC world.   Have you priced an IBM SP2 System, or a SUN E20K, these computers are in a small volume high performance bracket. Priced at many times the price of a PC, and they are not even in the Mainframe category.   I'm just a small firm, and couldn't come close to it at $10 to $15K even using Ahlborn Units.   Vern, Sound Research   Bill Raty wrote: > > Here's a deliberately provocative question aimed at the > purveyors of electronic instruments: with electronic > components as inexpensive as they are, why aren't there a > plethora of 3 manual, 45 rank equivalent instruments available > at the $10-15K range? > > I know this has to be possible, having worked in the > semiconductor manufacturing field for 14 years. Look what has > happened to the price of computers: the price is 1/10th what it > was 20 years ago and the performance is 1500 times better (from > the standpoint of instructions executed). Granted, the > quantity of units sold isn't in the same league, but the > fundamental guts are the same. > > Just curious... > > Regards, > > -Bill > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS? From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 22:11:14 -0600   Hi Vern, Where can I get a decent 3-manual console for $5k to $10k? I thought they were much more expensive than that!   Russ     On Thursday, March 13, 2003, at 10:04 PM, Vern Jones wrote:   > It is possible to do this in today's MIDI world, but a large percentage > of a 3 Manual organ console of any type, PIPE or Electronic, if built > to > standards with combination actions, drawnobs or magnetic stop tablets > is > somewhere in the neighborhood of $5K to $10K just for a decent > performing console.    
(back) Subject: Scintillating in Schenectady From: "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:12:06 -0500   Dear List members,   It has come to my attention that there were several bad misspellings in my report of Felix's recent concert in Schenectady.   I apologize. It seems that my spell checker had a mind of it's own! It changed "Jongen" to "Jones", "Mendelssohn" to Mendel" and somehow "Vater Unser Im Himmelreich" got twisted around to "Vaster User I Homeric"   I promise to recheck things in the future.     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY  
(back) Subject: Hymn to Alan Laufman From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 23:28:19 -0500   Hi, please, if you are planning to dedicate a hymn to Alan Laufman at the OHS, spell his name correctly. One "n" not two in Laufman. ?typo error. Judy Ollikkala  
(back) Subject: Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS? From: "Vern Jones" <soundres@foothill.net> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:42:05 -0800   I enjoy building organ components as a specialty supplier. However to build a console is an expensive proposition. Price a Lighted Drawknob with Engraving or a Dual Magnetic Stop tab unit with contacts and engraving. The costs for Just a single Ahlborn Unit control system gets to be pricey.   Some say that an Ahlborn unit is expensive, but even an Ahlborn unit contains 5 processors. 1 to control the front panel operations. Another for the basic interior data routing and internal control functions such as MIDI Decoding, and 3 DSP processors to generate the internal 6 Channel sound, with an internal mixer system to produce 2 channel stereo sound. All of this fits into a shoe box sized unit. So it is similar to 3 Roland Synth. Boxes of Some other MFGs. 3 Synth boxes, and priced about the same as 3 Synth boxes. Now multiply this out for a 45 Rank unit.   A normal synth. is good for 32 to 64 polyphonic events. How many does a 45 rank instrument require?....more than 64...   What I'm trying to say, is if they turned out an instrument for $10K to $15K, would you buy it? It would be seriously lacking in resources, or they would have to use shortcut tricks to even come close to making it perform at all. Organ building is still a custom building enterprise, even in the electronic area. In the larger instruments there is seldom 2 that are exactly alike. Wood working is still an art and craft even with today's modern machines.   My 2 cents worth.   Vern, Sound Research   Bill Sebring wrote: > > Though of course, in defense of technology pricing....the cost of > synthesizers isn't what it used to be, and the amount of technology = involved > really isn't anymore difficult than what's going on with organ building, > with regards to sampling technology. > > You do make a good point, and I figured your explanation and that of = Arie's > hit the nail on the head. > > Still my partner does make a very valid point. People do give the = excuse > that it's their limited market that explains high prices, but if you're > going to want to increase your market share, then make the price a bit = more > within reach.   > > Bill Raty wrote: > > > > Here's a deliberately provocative question aimed at the > > purveyors of electronic instruments: with electronic > > components as inexpensive as they are, why aren't there a > > plethora of 3 manual, 45 rank equivalent instruments available > > at the $10-15K range? > > > > I know this has to be possible, having worked in the > > semiconductor manufacturing field for 14 years. Look what has > > happened to the price of computers: the price is 1/10th what it > > was 20 years ago and the performance is 1500 times better (from > > the standpoint of instructions executed). Granted, the > > quantity of units sold isn't in the same league, but the > > fundamental guts are the same. > > > > Just curious... > > > > Regards, > > > > -Bill  
(back) Subject: Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS? From: "Vern Jones" <soundres@foothill.net> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:46:39 -0800   Russ,   Just the bare necessities, a real good one is $20K or better. So a gutted used one is probably closer to the $5k to $10K range.   Vern   Russ Greene wrote: > > Hi Vern, > Where can I get a decent 3-manual console for $5k to $10k? I thought > they were much more expensive than that! > > Russ > > On Thursday, March 13, 2003, at 10:04 PM, Vern Jones wrote: > > > It is possible to do this in today's MIDI world, but a large = percentage > > of a 3 Manual organ console of any type, PIPE or Electronic, if built > > to > > standards with combination actions, drawnobs or magnetic stop tablets > > is > > somewhere in the neighborhood of $5K to $10K just for a decent > > performing console. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: TWO OR THREE MANUALS? From: <OrganMD@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:11:52 EST     --part1_b9.2f98324f.2ba2be98_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi Bill.........   Some things that you need to know....... while the cost of the raw = electronic components seem inexpensive, good consoles are not. Good wood framed = manuals can cost $3,000.00 each. Think P & S, OSI, Laukuff etc. Magnetic moving drawstop actions without the stem and head can be $50.00 ea. and more at = OEM prices. I think that you get the idea of where this is headed.   Good luck,   BH   --part1_b9.2f98324f.2ba2be98_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D3 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Hi Bill.........<BR> <BR> Some things that you need to know....... while the cost of the raw = electroni=3D c components seem inexpensive, good consoles are not.&nbsp; Good wood = framed=3D manuals can cost $3,000.00 each.&nbsp; Think P &amp; S, OSI, Laukuff = etc.&n=3D bsp; Magnetic moving drawstop actions without the stem and head can be = $50.0=3D 0 ea. and more at OEM prices.&nbsp; I think that you get the idea of where = t=3D his is headed.<BR> <BR> Good luck,<BR> <BR> BH<BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_b9.2f98324f.2ba2be98_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Old established organ builders From: "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 08:10:43 +0000   Dear list, Whilst following up a recent discussion on stop names I discovered that = the Italian organ building firm of Mascioni was founded in 1829 and is still going strong. I believe it is still in the original family hands. This = must make it one of the oldest organ building firms in existence. They have = built over 1,100 instruments and have a comprehensive website at http://www.mascioni-organs.com/ Do you know any other organ builders who can claim similar longevity? Do = any list members have knowledge of this subject? John Foss   www.johnfoss.gr         _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3D3963