PipeChat Digest #3544 - Sunday, March 16, 2003
 
Fwd: Third And Last Time Try To Reply To Tommylee's Message.
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
ABSOLUTELY THE LAST ATTEMPT I AM ONLY DOING THIS BECAUSE TED IS SUPER
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
Re: Fwd: Third And Last Time Try To Reply To Tommylee's Message.
  by "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org>
out-of-print Palm Sun. anthem (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
George Muschel's "Toccata"
  by <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net>
Re: out-of-print Palm Sun. anthem (X-posted)
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Ascension Church, Milwaukee
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: George Muschel's "Toccata"
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: Cross Post - Elgar Variations
  by "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net>
Re: George Muschel's "Toccata"
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
Re: George Muschel's "Toccata"
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
OT: Interesting article about Nigerian scams
  by <melisma@uniserve.com>
 

(back) Subject: Fwd: Third And Last Time Try To Reply To Tommylee's Message. From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:23:07 -0800 (PST)   --0-1612896224-1047770587=3D:42628 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii     Mattcinnj <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> wrote:Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:21:28 = -0800 (PST) From: Mattcinnj Subject: Third And Last Time Try To Reply To Tommylee's Message. To: mattcinnj@yahoo.com     Really Sorry, everyone. Yahoo keeps truncating Ted's message so I am = trying this another way. I first copied his message into Word and am now = copying it back into Yahoo.   Matt   Matt:   You may want to forward the following to those that wonder why European = organ prices are higher in the states than in Europe.   In most of Europe the price is set by the manufacturer and no inflationary = or discounting is allowed. Taxes are included in the prices. Those = prices DO NOT include the external speaker systems either as European = organ manufacturers do not price the organ and speakers together as in = America. So add a few thousand on the bigger models.   Final landed dealer cost of European organs is very close to RETAIL prices = in Europe. And most USA versions are actually higher in dealer cost as = they have more standard equipment. Shipping and import taxes/duties and = freight increase the dealer price by another 5% or so, but what REALLY = increases the price is the total overhead costs that US dealers must take = into consideration!   In Europe, most dealerships sell three to four times as many organs as the = average dealership in America so they can operate on smaller dollar = margins. Advertising costs in Europe are about 1/3 that of costs in the = US.   European dealers don't have to pay for employee health insurance, workers = compensation, inflated liability insurance for business, etc. So again, = the dealers have a price advantage because their total overhead expenses = are both lower and distributed among more unit sales.   In America, people love to sue each other so business insurance is often 6 = to 30 times higher in America! In Europe the loser of a lawsuit must pay = all court costs and Attorney fees to both parties of the suit. Their = system is better designed to reduce frivolous "get rich quick" attorney = encouraged lawsuits of our legal system in America. ( Okay I got off the = subject ).   European organs still cost less than American organs due to many aspects. = Some are poorly built and others are at least the equal, and often exceed = the technology levels of American instruments. Granted, many dealerships = in America are locked in the mindset that they need to inflate the prices = of organs to outrageous increases above cost. Dealers selling European = organs are paying a little less in COST than those selling American made = organs, BUT it is total dollar income that must be considered in a sale = not just percentage of markup. Overhead prices remain the same regardless = of what the organ cost the dealer!   My company makes half as much profit in dollars as most other organ = dealerships simply because European organs cost less and sell for less, = but I still have to pay out just as much in expenses of business as the = Allen and Rodgers guys working on 50 to 60% profit margins! So in = comparison, European organ prices in America are a bargain when compared = with American made instruments and the technology now exceeds most = American made instruments!   We come down to something long forgotten! VALUE! Americans love to buy in to slick advertising, or should we call it = brainwashing! Some people as so biased to their brand that they can't see = the light! Misleading advertising has been a part of the organ business = for a long time in America and Americans are eager to eat it up. The = European marketing approach is based on honest comparison and true = worthiness. They don't attack their competitors like "some" organ sales = reps. And some American organ manufacturers take more time teaching their = dealers how to attack their competitors than teaching them what is really = of value to the customer. I know! I have been to ONE particular dealer = meeting where the manufacturer NEVER talked about the positive aspects of = their product! They talked about (sometimes falsely) the competition and how bad "those" organ are. I wish I = had video taped this! (Oh yea, I did)   Don't get me wrong! European organs are not all equal either. I just = returned from Frankfurt Music Fair in Germany and heard some really BAD = organs! I also heard a couple of fantastic organs that far exceed the = sound quality of anything sold in America! YES, BETTER DIGITAL ORGANS ARE = NOT CURRENTLY SOLD IN AMERICA (well, except for Walker ).   To sum up value. You DON'T always get what you pay for! Not in the organ = business! Wise up, evaluate and honestly compare! What is value to you = may be worthless to others. As a dealer, I sell a line of organs that I = feel is of true value to my customers! I didn't always do that. Today I = have the option to sell real quality and value. The fact that it is = manufactured in Europe is no longer of importance. Value is value = wherever it is made.   So if anybody is interested in working together to import a really = incredible organ line please let me know. I found the best sounding = digital organ in the world and hope to begin importing into the states. = Not only will it run circles around the US competition, it is affordable. = Talk about value! Hardwood consoles, moving drawknobs, note by note = sampling, voicing capability, custom stops can be selected at no = additional cost, and an overall sound quality and massive ensemble of = pipes that I have NEVER heard in any digital organ sold in America! And = one absolute promise! This is no hype! The worlds best sounding digital = organ is out there and available at half the price of Allen and Rodgers! = Any you've never heard of it either! I'm just glad that perfection does = exist! And affordable too.   Interested in perfection? Email me at soundwaves4u@aol.com or call me at 800-859-2206 But please don't call to waste my time.   Thanks,   Ted M. Young       --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online --0-1612896224-1047770587=3D:42628 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii   <P>&nbsp; <P>&nbsp;<B><I>Mattcinnj &lt;mattcinnj@yahoo.com&gt;</I></B> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: = #1010ff 2px solid">Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:21:28 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: = Mattcinnj <MATTCINNJ@YAHOO.COM><BR>Subject: Third And Last Time Try To = Reply To Tommylee's Message.<BR>To: mattcinnj@yahoo.com<BR><BR> <P>Really Sorry, everyone. Yahoo keeps truncating Ted's message so I am = trying this another way. I first copied his message into Word and am now = copying it back into Yahoo.</P> <P>Matt</P> <P><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua" color=3D#004080 size=3D4>Matt:<BR><BR>You = may want to forward the following to those that wonder why European organ = prices are higher in the states than in Europe.<BR><BR>In most of Europe = the price is set by the manufacturer and no inflationary or discounting is = allowed.&nbsp; Taxes are included in the prices.&nbsp; Those prices DO NOT = include the external speaker systems either as European organ = manufacturers do not price the organ and speakers together as in = America.&nbsp; So add a few thousand on the bigger models.<BR><BR>Final = landed dealer cost of European organs is very close to RETAIL prices in = Europe.&nbsp; And most USA versions are actually higher in dealer cost as = they have more standard equipment.&nbsp; Shipping and import taxes/duties = and freight increase the dealer price by another 5% or so, but what REALLY = increases the price is the total overhead costs that US dealers must take = into consideration!<BR><BR>In Europe, most dealerships sell three to <P><BR> <HR SIZE=3D1> Do you Yahoo!?<BR><A = href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/webhosting/mail_tagline/evt=3D7748/*http://webh= osting.yahoo.com/ps/wh3/prod/">Yahoo! Web Hosting</A> - establish your = business online</BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><hr size=3D1>Do you Yahoo!?<br> <a = href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/webhosting/mail_tagline/evt=3D7748/*http://webh= osting.yahoo.com/ps/wh3/prod/">Yahoo! Web Hosting</a> - establish your business online --0-1612896224-1047770587=3D:42628--  
(back) Subject: ABSOLUTELY THE LAST ATTEMPT I AM ONLY DOING THIS BECAUSE TED IS SUPER From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:45:05 -0800 (PST)   --0-1435563925-1047771905=3D:13420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii   Matt:   You may want to forward the following to those that wonder why European = organ prices are higher in the states than in Europe.   In most of Europe the price is set by the manufacturer and no inflationary = or discounting is allowed. Taxes are included in the prices. Those = prices DO NOT include the external speaker systems either as European = organ manufacturers do not price the organ and speakers together as in = America. So add a few thousand on the bigger models.   Final landed dealer cost of European organs is very close to RETAIL prices = in Europe. And most USA versions are actually higher in dealer cost as = they have more standard equipment. Shipping and import taxes/duties and = freight increase the dealer price by another 5% or so, but what REALLY = increases the price is the total overhead costs that US dealers must take = into consideration!   In Europe, most dealerships sell three to four times as many organs as the = average dealership in America so they can operate on smaller dollar = margins. Advertising costs in Europe are about 1/3 that of costs in the = US.   European dealers don't have to pay for employee health insurance, workers = compensation, inflated liability insurance for business, etc. So again, = the dealers have a price advantage because their total overhead expenses = are both lower and distributed among more unit sales.   In America, people love to sue each other so business insurance is often 6 = to 30 times higher in America! In Europe the loser of a lawsuit must pay = all court costs and Attorney fees to both parties of the suit. Their = system is better designed to reduce frivolous "get rich quick" attorney = encouraged lawsuits of our legal system in America. ( Okay I got off the = subject ).   European organs still cost less than American organs due to many aspects. = Some are poorly built and others are at least the equal, and often exceed = the technology levels of American instruments. Granted, many dealerships = in America are locked in the mindset that they need to inflate the prices = of organs to outrageous increases above cost. Dealers selling European = organs are paying a little less in COST than those selling American made = organs, BUT it is total dollar income that must be considered in a sale = not just percentage of markup. Overhead prices remain the same regardless = of what the organ cost the dealer!   My company makes half as much profit in dollars as most other organ = dealerships simply because European organs cost less and sell for less, = but I still have to pay out just as much in expenses of business as the = Allen and Rodgers guys working on 50 to 60% profit margins! So in = comparison, European organ prices in America are a bargain when compared = with American made instruments and the technology now exceeds most = American made instruments!   We come down to something long forgotten! VALUE! Americans love to buy in to slick advertising, or should we call it = brainwashing! Some people as so biased to their brand that they can't see = the light! Misleading advertising has been a part of the organ business = for a long time in America and Americans are eager to eat it up. The = European marketing approach is based on honest comparison and true = worthiness. They don't attack their competitors like "some" organ sales = reps. And some American organ manufacturers take more time teaching their = dealers how to attack their competitors than teaching them what is really = of value to the customer. I know! I have been to ONE particular dealer = meeting where the manufacturer NEVER talked about the positive aspects of = their product! They talked about (sometimes falsely) the competition and = how bad "those" organ are. I wish I had video taped this! (Oh yea, I = did)   Don't get me wrong! European organs are not all equal either. I just = returned from Frankfurt Music Fair in Germany and heard some really BAD = organs! I also heard a couple of fantastic organs that far exceed the = sound quality of anything sold in America! YES, BETTER DIGITAL ORGANS ARE NOT CURRENTLY SOLD IN AMERICA (well, except for = Walker ).   To sum up value. You DON'T always get what you pay for! Not in the organ = business! Wise up, evaluate and honestly compare! What is value to you = may be worthless to others. As a dealer, I sell a line of organs that I = feel is of true value to my customers! I didn't always do that. Today I = have the option to sell real quality and value. The fact that it is = manufactured in Europe is no longer of importance. Value is value = wherever it is made.   So if anybody is interested in working together to import a really = incredible organ line please let me know. I found the best sounding = digital organ in the world and hope to begin importing into the states. = Not only will it run circles around the US competition, it is affordable. = Talk about value! Hardwood consoles, moving drawknobs, note by note = sampling, voicing capability, custom stops can be selected at no = additional cost, and an overall sound quality and massive ensemble of = pipes that I have NEVER heard in any digital organ sold in America! And = one absolute promise! This is no hype! The worlds best sounding digital = organ is out there and available at half the price of Allen and Rodgers! = Any you've never heard of it either! I'm just glad that perfection does = exist! And affordable too.   Interested in perfection? Email me at soundwaves4u@aol.com or call me at 800-859-2206 But please don't call to waste my time.   Thanks,   Ted M. Young     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online --0-1435563925-1047771905=3D:13420 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii   <FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua" color=3D#004080 size=3D4>Matt:<BR><BR>You may = want to forward the following to those that wonder why European organ = prices are higher in the states than in Europe.<BR><BR>In most of Europe = the price is set by the manufacturer and no inflationary or discounting is = allowed.&nbsp; Taxes are included in the prices.&nbsp; Those prices DO NOT = include the external speaker systems either as European organ = manufacturers do not price the organ and speakers together as in = America.&nbsp; So add a few thousand on the bigger models.<BR><BR>Final = landed dealer cost of European organs is very close to RETAIL prices in = Europe.&nbsp; And most USA versions are actually higher in dealer cost as = they have more standard equipment.&nbsp; Shipping and import taxes/duties = and freight increase the dealer price by another 5% or so, but what REALLY = increases the price is the total overhead costs that US dealers must take = into consideration!<BR><BR>In Europe, most dealerships sell three to fo <a = href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/webhosting/mail_tagline/evt=3D7748/*http://webh= osting.yahoo.com/ps/wh3/prod/">Yahoo! Web Hosting</a> - establish your = business online --0-1435563925-1047771905=3D:13420--  
(back) Subject: Re: Fwd: Third And Last Time Try To Reply To Tommylee's Message. From: "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 19:00:27 -0500   > Really Sorry, everyone. Yahoo keeps truncating Ted's message so I > am trying this another way. I first copied his message into Word and > am now copying it back into Yahoo.   Matt, All three messages came through just fine. At least, they are all three identical and in a cusory reading, don't seem to be missing anything.   tlw    
(back) Subject: out-of-print Palm Sun. anthem (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 17:20:10 -0800   It took a rainy Saturday afternoon, but I FINALLY put "Why Does He Seem To Be So Sad?" into Sibelius ... it's ... um ... kinda Gospel-ish (grin), but the text works PERFECTLY to make the transition from the Triumphal Entry to the first reading of the Passion on Palm Sunday.   If anybody wants it, msg. me pvt. and let me know whether you want PDFs or Sibelius files. If you're on my music download list, you don't have to do anything ... it goes out automatically.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: George Muschel's "Toccata" From: <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:21:16 -0500   Hey everyone.   I was wondering if anyone could tell me how I could get a copy of this piece? I have a recording of "The Joy of Music" someone made for me years ago, and Ms. Bish played it. I went to my local distributor today only to find out that it's only in one book, and it's out of print. (I don't know if I totally accept that.)   Anyone have any ideas? I don't even know who the publisher was to find out if they could print me a copy. Agape-Hope Publishing did this for me on a handbell piece.   Thanks in advance! Jeff    
(back) Subject: Re: out-of-print Palm Sun. anthem (X-posted) From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:41:40 -0500   On 3/15/03 8:20 PM, "quilisma@socal.rr.com" <quilisma@socal.rr.com> wrote:   > I FINALLY put "Why Does He Seem To Be So Sad?" into Sibelius ...   Normally, I'd think that an odd title, but I just read on another list of = an anthem, "Would Jesus Wear a Rolex?"--so I guess it's pretty OK.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Ascension Church, Milwaukee From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 21:00:04 -0500   On 3/14/03 10:25 PM, "John Seboldt" <rohrwerk@seboldt.net> wrote:   > Don't recall the details, but they've tried to remain a vital urban > congregation. I've passed there a few times and that's all I can say. = John > Behnke gave a 150th anniversary program there - see our Milwaukee AGO > website, http://www.agomilwaukee.org/program.html ... > > and oh, like duh, I re-read the newsletter, and the organ has Wangerin > origins, rebuilt by Berghaus with consultation by Scott R. Reidel & > Associates here in Milwaukee. The newsletter is even on line at > http://www.agomilwaukee.org/10pipenotes.pdf (the pdf file is 481K so be > prepared) > > John Seboldt > Milwaukee > John et al. Struggling to stay on topic, I have a story. Ascension = Church had a pastor named "Stern" for decades, in the 1930s-50s or thereabouts. Pastor Stern had a wife, somewhat younger than himself, who chose not to attend services very often. Pastor retired, died, etc. Wife remained an inactive member.   Ascension decided to build a substantial new addition, an educational = unit, with office space, young folks' lounge, and classrooms--with a rather nice (if you like blond wood) chapel on the ground floor. Chapel called the "Stern Memorial Chapel." It had an electronic organ of some sort. Maybe even the whole addition was named after him; I don't recall.   Dedication of this fine (and it was) new facility was scheduled in maybe 1957 or thereabouts; maybe earlier. Only with some trepidation did the Church Council approach the widow to ask her to come and be the guestess = of honor for the event. She condescended to consent.   Then, some weeks or months later, as the Day drew nigh, they talked to her again, and she had to give regrets. LIBERACE would be performing in Milwaukee on that very afternoon, and she had a ticket. No WAY could she attend the dedication.   End of story; they got on without her.   Alan          
(back) Subject: Re: George Muschel's "Toccata" From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 21:04:08 EST     --part1_181.184ce24a.2ba53598_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 3/15/2003 8:22:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, REEDSTOP@prodigy.net writes:     > . I went to my local distributor today > only to find out that it's only in one book, and it's > out of print. (I don't know if I totally accept > that.) >   It is in a collection "Modern Organ Music" vol 2. published by (i think) = OUP. They do have a one-off service available, but it takes time.   Rick in VA   --part1_181.184ce24a.2ba53598_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>In a message dated = 3/15/2=3D 003 8:22:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, REEDSTOP@prodigy.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-=3D LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">. &nbsp;I went to my = local=3D20=3D distributor today=3D20 <BR>only to find out that it's only in one book, and it's=3D20 <BR>out of print. &nbsp;(I don't know if I totally accept=3D20 <BR>that.) &nbsp; <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>It is in a collection "Modern Organ Music" vol 2. published by (i = think)=3D OUP. &nbsp;They do have a one-off service available, but it takes time. = &nb=3D sp; <BR> <BR>Rick in VA</FONT></HTML>   --part1_181.184ce24a.2ba53598_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Cross Post - Elgar Variations From: "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:11:59 -0600     Indeed. Vol. 2 is ISBN 0-85360-405-3 or NOV010995. Shouldn't be too hard to find - Nimrod is only two pages long:-)   Michael       ---------------------   Subject: Re: Cross Post - Elgar Variations From: "Bruce Miles" <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 12:36:00 -0000   I've just checked - the Harris arrangement is the one in Elgar Organ Album No2 (Novello). Should be available anywhere.        
(back) Subject: Re: George Muschel's "Toccata" From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:18:34 -0600   Hi! Both Modern Organ Music book 1 and book 2 have been reprinted by Oxford as one volume. I bought a brand new copy about a year ago and it has the Muschel piece.   Lenten Blessings Beau Surratt, Organist St. Peter's UCC, Elmhurst,IL Organ Performance Major, Northern Illinois University, DeKalb,IL     -----Original Message----- From: RMaryman@aol.com To: pipechat@pipechat.org Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 21:04:08 EST Subject: Re: George Muschel's "Toccata"   > In a message dated 3/15/2003 8:22:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, > REEDSTOP@prodigy.net writes: > > > > . I went to my local distributor today > > only to find out that it's only in one book, and it's > > out of print. (I don't know if I totally accept > > that.) > > > > It is in a collection "Modern Organ Music" vol 2. published by (i > think) OUP. > They do have a one-off service available, but it takes time. > > Rick in VA >      
(back) Subject: Re: George Muschel's "Toccata" From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 22:23:10 -0600   Georgi Mushel's Toccata was published by the Oxford University Press; I'm not sure if it is still in print.   John Speller   P.S. My Norton Anti-Virus Software caught a virus in this posting.    
(back) Subject: OT: Interesting article about Nigerian scams From: <melisma@uniserve.com> Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 14:04:12 +0900   Saw this on the Yahoo News sites, and remembered recent threads from those = who had received these letters. Thought you might like to see something from = the Nigerians' points of view. (Not the scammers, I must add :)   http://story.news.yahoo.com/news? tmpl=3Dstory2&cid=3D572&ncid=3D811&e=3D10&u=3D/nm/20030313/lf_nm/crime_nige= ria_419_dc   I cut and pasted this directly from my browser's address box. If it gets = cut up in transit, you will have to cut and paste it back. Sorry! But I found it = an interesting read, and I hope you will, too...   Melisma (going back into hiding here under her Rock)