PipeChat Digest #3568 - Sunday, March 23, 2003
 
Re: Needs instructions to build pipe organs - unsolicited comments
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Bruce's Comments
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
Olivier Latry at Mother Church
  by "mack02445" <mack02445@mindspring.com>
RE: Olivier Latry in Boston
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Olivier Latry in Boston
  by "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com>
Denominational Tonal Palettes
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Olivier Latry in Boston
  by <MFoxy9795@aol.com>
Denominational Tonal Pallettes
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
Re: A Bedient replaced, and Anglican organs
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: What's in a Name
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Bruce's Comments
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Needs instructions to build pipe organs - unsolicited comments From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:02:06 EST     --part1_198.179c1f3e.2baf0a4e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Let's see...Sept of 2002...that's 6 months...   Well, if this organ is being constructed of entirely new materials and is = a ONE man shop, then he would probably be on track to deliver your organ in = a timely manner.   I know from my own work that there are lead-times of 4 to 6 months to get pipework made, solid-state systems for the relay and console built, a = console shell to build, chests to construct, mechanical layout, electrical layout, =   wind system to design, build and test...   seems to me that if you are worried, you could call or stop by the shop to =   see the progress first-hand. If I were building you a 5-rank organ I would = be up to my eyebrows in projects related to your organ (not to mention the regular service work that comes along prior to Easter and Christmas (last) =   and the odd emergency repairs call, etc).   just my perspective.   Rick in VA   --part1_198.179c1f3e.2baf0a4e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>Let's see...Sept of = 2002.=3D ...that's 6 months... <BR> <BR>Well, if this organ is being constructed of entirely new materials and = i=3D s a ONE man shop, then he would probably be on track to deliver your organ = i=3D n a timely manner. <BR> <BR>I know from my own work that there are lead-times of 4 to 6 months to = ge=3D t pipework made, solid-state systems for the relay and console built, a = cons=3D ole shell to build, chests to construct, mechanical layout, electrical = layou=3D t, wind system to design, build and test... <BR> <BR>seems to me that if you are worried, you could call or stop by the = shop=3D20=3D to see the progress first-hand. If I were building you a 5-rank organ I = woul=3D d be up to my eyebrows in projects related to your organ (not to mention = the=3D regular service work that comes along prior to Easter and Christmas = (last)=3D20=3D and the odd emergency repairs call, etc). <BR> <BR>just my perspective. <BR> <BR>Rick in VA</FONT></HTML>   --part1_198.179c1f3e.2baf0a4e_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Bruce's Comments From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 05:17:27 -0800 (PST)   --0-1694656736-1048425447=3D:68808 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii     Hi Bruce,   Not being there at the time, I do not know why that particular spec. was = chosen. Certainly, to this day, this small church is not rolling in money = and back in the 70's had a much smaller congregation ... so probably had = even less. I imagine that sticking these few pipes on a wall certainly was = a cost savings.   That being said, considering the mindset of organists back then, it is not = surprising to me that the spec. looks like it does. It is also without = question an instance, however, of "I'd rather have 4 ranks of real pipes = instead of the biggest electronic", thinking since an electronic was = replaced by the Moller and this mindset is still in place.   It is not my "place", obviously, (just a Choir member, NOT on the Organ = committee, nor the Vestry) to try to "improve" this situation so I will = not comment further. I'll just leave like others have when I can't put up = with it anymore.       --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! --0-1694656736-1048425447=3D:68808 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii   <P>Hi Bruce,</P> <P>Not being there at the time, I do not know why that particular spec. = was chosen. Certainly, to this day, this small&nbsp;church is not rolling = in money and back in the 70's had a much smaller congregation ... so = probably had even less. I imagine that sticking these few pipes on a wall = certainly was a cost savings.&nbsp;</P> <P>That being said, considering the mindset of organists back then, it is = not surprising to me that the spec. looks like it does.&nbsp; It is also = without question an instance, however, of "I'd rather have 4 ranks of real = pipes instead of the biggest electronic", thinking since an electronic was = replaced by the Moller and this mindset is still in place.</P> <P>It is not my "place", obviously, (just a Choir member, NOT on the = Organ&nbsp;committee, nor the Vestry)&nbsp;to try to "improve" this = situation so I will not comment further.&nbsp;I'll just leave like others = have when I can't put up with it anymore.</P><p><br><hr size=3D1>Do you = Yahoo!?<br> <a = href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/platinum/evt=3D8162/*http://platinum.yahoo.com/= splash.html">Yahoo! Platinum</a> - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, <a = href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/platinum/evt=3D8162/*http://platinum.yahoo.com/= splash.html">live on your desktop</a>! --0-1694656736-1048425447=3D:68808--  
(back) Subject: Olivier Latry at Mother Church From: "mack02445" <mack02445@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 10:32:32 -0500   I am not going to try to review this wonderful recital, Harold has done a great job of it already. I do wish to thank the Boston Chapter and The Christian Science Church for making this event possible. This is the second time I have heard this instrument since its revision and was greatly impressed this time. Being an old Aeolian-Skinner employee, who was there when Larry was still there, although after the completion of the Mother Church organ. It was great to hear such an excellent performer use all the resources of that instrument.   Kudos to all involved.   Cheers, Mack    
(back) Subject: RE: Olivier Latry in Boston From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:41:53 -0600   I hope he plays the same program in Pensacola!   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of MFoxy9795@aol.com Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 1:52 PM To: "PipeChat" Subject: Olivier Latry in Boston   Olivier Latry played at the Mother Church in Boston last night. His program was   Prelude and Fugue in G major JS Bach   Three chorale preludes from the Orgelbu"chlein: JS Bach Jesu meine Freude Wer nur den lieben Gott la"sst walten Es ist das Heil uns kommen her   Quatre Cantiques de Denizot APF Boe"ly Le vermeil du Soleil Reveillez-vous pastoureaux Esprits divins Voici la premiere entree   Toccata in b minor Boe"ly   Choral 1 in E major Franck   Intermission   Allegro from the Sixth Symphony Widor   Pieces de Fantaisie Vierne Clair de lune Feux follets   Final from Evocation Dupre   Improvisation on three themes Go down Moses a theme composed by Peter Krasinski and i forgot the third!   and for an encore, finale from Guilmant's sonata.        
(back) Subject: Olivier Latry in Boston From: "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:17:08 -0500   Following up on Merry Foxworth's posting. The third improvisation theme was contributed by a student from Project STEP. STEP is an acronym for String Training and Educational Program for Students of Color. As one might guess from the name, its goal is "to demonstrate to all aspiring young musicians that the classical music profession is open to any gifted, well-trained and disciplined performer regardless of racial or ethnic background", according to the program. Personally, I was somewhat disappointed with the improvisation because I had a hard time hearing the themes. The two original themes were excessively modern and seemed to me to have been designed to make the improviser's job unnecessarily difficult (sorry, Peter!) rather than to provide a new melody. I'm fairly sure I heard Go Down Moses once or twice in this single-movement improv. Sylistically, it was of the Frankenstein's monster/movie music vein. I would rather have heard something in a more romantic vein, especially with the spiritual - perhaps a la Dvorak. I'm too used to the improvisation style of McNeil Robinson and Gerre Hancock, I guess!   That cavil aside, Latry was indeed exceedingly impressive. The organ sounded the best I've ever heard it, which may be because I sat down front in row 6 or 7 instead of in a gallery as in the past. The church was about 2/3 full. The Bach was not overdone, i.e., he used only as much of the organ as would truly put across the music and didn't romanticize it. The first half of the program was overall rather restrained, I felt, but appropriately so. The second half he pulled out all the stops, so to speak, and we heard the organ thunder the way a large Aeolian-Skinner truly can. Foley-Baker and Lawrence Phelps (of blessed memory), and the church too, should be very happy with the results of the recent rebuild/restoration.   One feature of the program that I found interesting and well-done is that there were several cameras focused on the console which showed Latry from various angles while he played. Latry seemed totally comfortable with that, and rather than get up to acknowledge applause (which is not an easy task at that console) he turned to the camera, smiled and nodded. He played the entire program from memory, with no obvious lapses. He seems to have what I would call a rather "pianistic" technique; rather large movements of the whole forearm, rather than just the hand and fingers, and he also moved about the bench rather a lot.   He played one encore, which according to Max Miller was a movement from a Guillmant sonata, he thought, but couldn't remember which one. All in all a very satisfying concert. A good time was had by all!!   David Baker    
(back) Subject: Denominational Tonal Palettes From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 12:40:11 EST   Like the organ literature itself, liturgy and choral accompaniment = come with historical prescriptions in two forms: the organs of the time and culture for which the music was written, and the legacy of established performance practice. Other first-hand documents include letters, = specific registrations, memoirs, etc. If one is consulting for a church, or building the organ for a church, =   one of the most important things to do is to investigate and to understand =   the liturgy and the music program. A very conservative Lutheran church = might be quite satisfied with a two-manual, encased, crisply-voiced mechanical action pipe organ based upon a tonal design and scalings that support the singing of hymns and the accompaniment of their liturgy. That same organ might not be as well received elsewhere. An Anglican church will miss its growling, shuttered-down "full Swell," its additional = 8' manual Diapasons, its Open Wood, and its Tuba. A synagogue will miss their =   English Horn, pedal Strings, open flutes, and warmer, lower-pitched mixture-work (and their Tuba). Yes, ANY of those congregations can be served by a three-rank = extension organ, well voiced and artfully used by a good musician. They could make = do with a simulated organ or an upright piano. Many church musicians profess that they don't care what they play, or about its quality, as long as they = do so in the service of the Almighty. My gut feeling is that the Almighty = would prefer that we try our best. Quality is a good thing. Really. And as one poster said, every builder has produced some organs that = are much better than others in his output, sometimes through no fault of their =   own. We too often confuse aspirations with ambition, so that dreams of something better are beaten down. We must remember, however, that when we = do not aspire to quality due to fear of being labeled elitist snobs, we = educate another generation to expect the mediocre. If we feed this cycle, we have = no right to complain that things are getting worse for the profession. Sebastian M. Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: Re: Olivier Latry in Boston From: <MFoxy9795@aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:12:05 -0500   Oh yes of course, the third theme was from Project STEP (a school-age = string instrument program), which reminds me - I should mention that there = were two very fine young string players who played movements from Bach = unaccompanied string partitas (one after the other, not together!) before = the recital as people came into the building, in the resonant space = underneath the sanctuary (do they call it that in a Christian Science = church?).   David, I agree with your comments about the themes for the improvisation.   Merry   =B4=A8=A8)) -:=A6:- =B8.=B7=B4 .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4 ..=B7=B4 -:=A6:-   An excerpt from Robert Giddings "Musical Quotes and Anecdotes", published in Longman Pocket Companions: "There let the pealing organ blow, To the full-voiced choir below, In service high, and anthems clear, As may with sweetness, through mine ear, Dissolve me into ecstasies, And bring all Heav'n before mine eyes". John Milton - Il Penseroso (1632).   http://ibo.bww.com/foxworth password: foxy        
(back) Subject: Denominational Tonal Pallettes From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:10:59 -0600   I certainly agree with what has been said about many churches needing an enclosed division, or even enclosing the whole organ if it is quite small. I am, however, continually amused about the denominational generalizations. We have, in the South several small Anglican and Anglo-Catholic churches that live quite happily with small unenclosed organs, including the small portable Riegers from the 1960s and 1970s. They do hymns and other rather austere music, including much old music. I believe the style of the organ should have more to do with the personal needs of a particular congregation that that of a particular denomination. Roy Redman    
(back) Subject: Re: A Bedient replaced, and Anglican organs From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 15:19:35 EST     --part1_172.17f8e421.2baf70d7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 3/22/03 11:47:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, tmbovard@earthlink.net writes:     > But what if the pipes are properly scaled, voiced, and finished to = reside > within a swell enclosure...??   This is true. EM Skiner was a master at making a chamber into something positive. I have heard some "de-Caverned" EMS organs that didn't sound nearly as good as they did as originally installed.   There is more than one way to build a fine instrument. There is also = more than one way to play a fine Anglican service.   Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at Howling Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502     --part1_172.17f8e421.2baf70d7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>In a message dated = 3/22/0=3D 3 11:47:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, tmbovard@earthlink.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-=3D LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">But what if the pipes are = p=3D roperly scaled, voiced, and finished to reside=3D20 <BR>within a swell enclosure...??</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" = SIZE=3D3D3 FA=3D MILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Ar=3D ial" LANG=3D3D"0"> <BR>This is true. &nbsp;&nbsp;EM Skiner was a master at making a chamber = int=3D o something positive. &nbsp;I have heard some "de-Caverned" EMS organs = that=3D20=3D didn't sound nearly as good as they did as originally installed. <BR> <BR>There is more than one way to build a fine instrument. = &nbsp;&nbsp;There=3D is also more than one way to play a fine Anglican service. <BR> <BR>Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui &nbsp;in the Muttastery at Howling = Ac=3D res http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_172.17f8e421.2baf70d7_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: What's in a Name From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 15:34:36 EST     --part1_11f.1fca370b.2baf745c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 3/23/03 7:21:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, RMB10@aol.com =   writes: > Appropriate, yes, but that doesn't mean that it will be musically > interesting. I've played Episcopal services on a 3 rank Reuter before. =   > Was it appropriate? I guess so. Was it interesting. Not at all. When =   > you only have a Principal, a Flute and a String, there's not a lot of > variety that you can have.   Again, I would disagree. THere is a great deal of variety possible with = only three stops. There is always a way to make the music interesting.   <Good thing the congregation was small and I didn't need a lot of power = to lead the > singing, because there was no power.   Most congregations need far less power for hymn-singing that people might think. It is not necessary to drown the congregation in sound. OHS conventions prove that EVERY year.   <I substituted for a Presbyterian church a few times before they replaced > old tracker organ. A good portion of the organ didn't work, > due to shoddy workmanship on the part of the builder. Sliders weren't > aligned properly, so not all the pipes in a rank would speak. Trackers > weren't all adjusted evenly, so some notes played if you barely brushed = a > key and other didn't play unless the key was pushed just a little bit = past > the bottom of the keybed. Basically to play the organ, most every stop = had > to be on at all times so that something spoke when a key was pressed. > Couple that with the fact that the new pipework was collapsing on = itself, > there were mismatched ranks of used stuff, and the only pedal stop was a =   > almost inaudible 16' Lieblich Gedeckt.   It has always amazed me that people who don't like tracker organs always = seem to play one that is in deplorable condition. Very likely a few hours of =   adjustment could have had the organ above playing fairly well.   Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at Howling Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502     --part1_11f.1fca370b.2baf745c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>In a message dated = 3/23/0=3D 3 7:21:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, RMB10@aol.com writes: <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-=3D LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Appropriate, yes, but = that=3D20=3D doesn't mean that it will be musically interesting. &nbsp;I've played = Episco=3D pal services on a 3 rank Reuter before. &nbsp;Was it appropriate? &nbsp;I = gu=3D ess so. &nbsp;Was it interesting. &nbsp;Not at all. &nbsp;When you only = have=3D a Principal, a Flute and a String, there's not a lot of variety that you = ca=3D n have. &nbsp;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D3 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"=3D20=3D FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Ar=3D ial" LANG=3D3D"0">Again, I would disagree. &nbsp;THere is a great deal of = vari=3D ety possible with only three stops. &nbsp;There is always a way to make = the=3D20=3D music interesting. <BR> <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;Good thing the congregation was small and I didn't = need=3D a lot of power to lead the </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D3 = FAMILY=3D =3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Ar=3D ial" LANG=3D3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: = #0000ff 2px so=3D lid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">singing, = becaus=3D e there was no power. &nbsp;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D3 = FAMILY=3D =3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>Most congregations need far less power for hymn-singing that people = migh=3D t think. &nbsp;It is not necessary to drown the congregation in sound. = &nbsp=3D ;&nbsp;&nbsp;OHS conventions prove that EVERY year. <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Ar=3D ial" LANG=3D3D"0">&lt;I substituted for a Presbyterian church a few times = befo=3D re they replaced their 15 year <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE = style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT:=3D #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px">=3D old tracker organ. &nbsp;A good portion of the organ didn't work, due to = sho=3D ddy workmanship on the part of the builder. &nbsp;Sliders weren't aligned = pr=3D operly, so not all the pipes in a rank would speak. &nbsp;Trackers weren't = a=3D ll adjusted evenly, so some notes played if you barely brushed a key and = oth=3D er didn't play unless the key was pushed just a little bit past the bottom = o=3D f the keybed. &nbsp;Basically to play the organ, most every stop had to be = o=3D n at all times so that something spoke when a key was pressed. = &nbsp;Couple=3D20=3D that with the fact that the new pipework was collapsing on itself, there = wer=3D e mismatched ranks of used stuff, and the only pedal stop was a almost = inaud=3D ible 16' Lieblich Gedeckt. </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D3 = FAMILY=3D =3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Ar=3D ial" LANG=3D3D"0"> <BR>It has always amazed me that people who don't like tracker organs = always=3D seem to play one that is in deplorable condition. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Very = li=3D kely a few hours of adjustment could have had the organ above playing = fairly=3D well. <BR> <BR>Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui &nbsp;in the Muttastery at Howling = Ac=3D res http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_11f.1fca370b.2baf745c_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Bruce's Comments From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 15:50:20 EST     --part1_7f.3490029c.2baf780c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 3/23/03 8:18:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, mattcinnj@yahoo.com writes:     > Not being there at the time, I do not know why that particular spec. was =   > chosen. Certainly, to this day, this small church is not rolling in = money > and back in the 70's had a much smaller congregation ... so probably had =   > even less. I imagine that sticking these few pipes on a wall certainly = was > a cost savings.     It's a shame that people are so bitter about a period of time in which = people were honestly trying to make improvements in the way organs were built, = even though mistakes were made and concepts and methods were misunderstood. = We have learned much since then, including ways to correct these mistakes. = For a church with a small pipe organ that is unenclosed, it seems it would = not be a terrible task to add a swell box to the organ. If people are = creative and open-minded, things can be accomplished.     > It is not my "place", obviously, (just a Choir member, NOT on the Organ > committee, nor the Vestry) to try to "improve" this situation so I will = not > comment further. I'll just leave like others have when I can't put up = with > it anymore. > I think this is a common mistake and an attitude which has contributed a great deal to the proliferation of second rate music heard in our churches =   today. When people who have knowledge and are making contributions to a church sit dumbly by and watch poor decisions being made, the people = making the decisions continue to labor under the dilusion that they are pleasing "everyone."   One excellent example was in a church where the minister constantly = chopped stanzas out of hymns. People had murmured among themselves and = complained to the choirdirector and to me, but no one had apparently had the guts to make a public stand on the issue. One Sunday, after causing the service = to run over twenty minutes with his sermon, the minister said, "Because of = the length of the service we are going to sing only the first and last stanzas = of the hymn." An elderly man, but not a wealthy or mover-and-shaker = member, stood and said,"If you are in a hurry to leave, go ahead! I came here = to worship God and I want to sing all five stanzas of this hymn as part of = that worship." Several other people added "Amen" to the statement and the choirdirector signaled me to play the whole thing. The minister did go = to the front door during the second stanza (and did not sing), but did not = leave. Your silence is assumed assent!     Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at Howling Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502     --part1_7f.3490029c.2baf780c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>In a message dated = 3/23/0=3D 3 8:18:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, mattcinnj@yahoo.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-=3D LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Not being there at the = time=3D , I do not know why that particular spec. was chosen. Certainly, to this = day=3D , this small church is not rolling in money and back in the 70's had a = much=3D20=3D smaller congregation ... so probably had even less. I imagine that = sticking=3D20=3D these few pipes on a wall certainly was a cost savings. </FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D =3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D3 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" = LANG=3D3D"0"></BLOCK=3D QUOTE> <BR> <BR> <BR>It's a shame that people are so bitter about a period of time in which = p=3D eople were honestly trying to make improvements in the way organs were = built=3D , even though mistakes were made and concepts and methods were = misunderstood=3D .. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;We have learned much since then, including ways to = corre=3D ct these mistakes. &nbsp;&nbsp;For a church with a small pipe organ that = is=3D20=3D unenclosed, &nbsp;it seems it would not be a terrible task to add a swell bo=3D x to the organ. &nbsp;If people are creative and open-minded, things can = be=3D20=3D accomplished. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Ar=3D ial" LANG=3D3D"0"> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-=3D LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It is not my "place", = obvio=3D usly, (just a Choir member, NOT on the Organ committee, nor the Vestry) to = t=3D ry to "improve" this situation so I will not comment further. I'll just = leav=3D e like others have when I can't put up with it anymore. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D3 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Ar=3D ial" LANG=3D3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Ar=3D ial" LANG=3D3D"0">I think this is a common mistake and an attitude which = has c=3D ontributed a great deal to the proliferation of second rate music heard in = o=3D ur churches today. &nbsp;&nbsp;When people who have knowledge and are = making=3D contributions to a church sit dumbly by and watch poor decisions being = made=3D , the people making the decisions continue to labor under the dilusion = that=3D20=3D they are pleasing "everyone." &nbsp; <BR> <BR>One excellent example was in a church where the minister constantly = chop=3D ped stanzas out of hymns. &nbsp;&nbsp;People had murmured among themselves = a=3D nd complained to the choirdirector and to me, but no one had apparently = had=3D20=3D the guts to make a public stand on the issue. &nbsp;&nbsp;One Sunday, = after=3D20=3D causing the service to run over twenty minutes with his sermon, the = minister=3D said, "Because of the length of the service we are going to sing only the = f=3D irst and last stanzas of the hymn." &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;An elderly = man,=3D20=3D but not a wealthy or mover-and-shaker member, stood and said,"If you are = in=3D20=3D a hurry to leave, go ahead! &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I came here to worship God = and=3D I want to sing all five stanzas of this hymn as part of that worship." = &nbs=3D p;&nbsp;&nbsp;Several other people added "Amen" to the statement and the = cho=3D irdirector signaled me to play the whole thing. &nbsp;&nbsp;The minister = did=3D go to the front door during the second stanza (and did not sing), but did = n=3D ot leave. <BR>Your silence is assumed assent! <BR> <BR> <BR>Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui &nbsp;in the Muttastery at Howling = Ac=3D res http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_7f.3490029c.2baf780c_boundary--