PipeChat Digest #3570 - Monday, March 24, 2003
 
Re: A Bedient replaced, and Anglican organs
  by "Jeremy Wance" <jwance@ou.edu>
Re: A Bedient replaced, and Anglican organs
  by "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com>
Re: Anglican organs and registration aids
  by "Bud" <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: A Bedient replaced, and Anglican organs From: "Jeremy Wance" <jwance@ou.edu> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:57:30 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_00AC_01C2F18F.94F07880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I'm new here, and didn't catch the very beginning of this thread, but I = =3D have a few comments. Hope you don't mind.....and if you do, ehh ;-)   I have to agree, in concept, with the compromise of a smaller organ WITH = =3D expression versus a larger one without. My church is a smallish =3D Episcopal parish (average attendance of 145 at the big service), with a = =3D 20 year-old, 7-rank Reuter. It is completely under expression. And =3D what a magnificent instrument it is, especially for its size. The =3D Principal is bold and full. The 2 flutes (gedeckt and spitz) contrast =3D wonderfully, the celeste is ethereal, the Mixture III is wonderfully =3D effective, and the Trumpet can be a blazing cap to it all, supported by = =3D an effective Resultant 32'. What a gift this modest instrument is! I =3D have heard some of the most formidable compositions performed =3D successfully on this organ, a tribute to Reuter and to the musicians who = =3D have played it. Every Sunday is a pleasure, particularly when I compare = =3D this "extension organ" to much more expensive and larger organs that =3D produce horrific sounds (I'm thinking of a particular Bedient at the =3D moment which is an absolute nightmare....another experiment in ciphers, = =3D non-standard key- and pedal-boards that make it an agony to play, reeds = =3D that, when they play, do it out of tune and with a horrid tone, and I =3D could go on ad-nauseum.....at least it LOOKS nice and I'm sure it =3D *perfectly* replicates some ancient organ in France that is in equally =3D awful condition). When placed in the *proper* hands (and I'm not =3D generally a great fan of Reuter), a few ranks of pipes can be made to be = =3D all you really *need*. Yes, we want to enlarge it, give it independent = =3D divisions, add voices, etc. But are we hard up? Nope.   Now, coming back to the issue of expression boxes. I, too, being and =3D American Anglican, thought that it would be impossible to do any =3D literature written after 1850 without 'em. But then I moved to Germany. = =3D A friend of mine presided over a newish, large 3-manual with NO =3D expression at all, COMPLETELY mechanical....no ventils, no combination =3D system of any sort.....yet he played literature from every era, =3D accompanied solo voices, instruments and choirs, and you would never =3D have known that his seamless crescendi were done with no mechanical =3D assistance. Maybe we're just spoiled and a little lazy here in the =3D U.S.?! ;-)   Bestens, Jeremy jwance@ou.edu ICQ# 100983880 AIM: jeremywance "We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it!" --- Marge Simpson       ------=3D_NextPart_000_00AC_01C2F18F.94F07880 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>I'm new here, and didn't catch the very beginning of = =3D this=3D20 thread, but I have a few comments.&nbsp; Hope you don't mind.....and if = =3D you do,=3D20 ehh ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>I have to agree, in concept, with the compromise of = =3D a smaller=3D20 organ WITH expression versus a larger one without.&nbsp; My church is a = =3D smallish=3D20 Episcopal parish (average attendance of 145 at the big service), with a = =3D 20=3D20 year-old, 7-rank Reuter.&nbsp; It is completely under expression.&nbsp; = =3D And what=3D20 a magnificent instrument it is, especially for its size.&nbsp; The=3D20 Principal&nbsp;is bold and full.&nbsp; The 2 flutes (gedeckt and spitz) = =3D contrast=3D20 wonderfully, the celeste is ethereal, the Mixture III is wonderfully =3D effective,=3D20 and the Trumpet can be a blazing cap to it all, supported by an =3D effective=3D20 Resultant 32'.&nbsp; What a gift this modest instrument is!&nbsp; I have = =3D heard=3D20 some of the most formidable compositions performed successfully on this = =3D organ, a=3D20 tribute to Reuter and to the musicians who have played it.&nbsp; Every =3D Sunday is=3D20 a pleasure, particularly when I compare this "extension organ" to much =3D more=3D20 expensive and larger organs that produce horrific sounds (I'm thinking =3D of a=3D20 particular Bedient at the moment which is an absolute =3D nightmare....another=3D20 experiment in ciphers, non-standard key- and pedal-boards that make it =3D an agony=3D20 to play, reeds that, when they play, do it out of tune and with a horrid = =3D tone,=3D20 and I could go on ad-nauseum.....at least it LOOKS nice and I'm sure = it=3D20 *perfectly* replicates some&nbsp;ancient organ in France that is in =3D equally=3D20 awful condition).&nbsp; When placed in the *proper* hands (and I'm not =3D generally=3D20 a great fan of Reuter), a few ranks of pipes can be made to be all you =3D really=3D20 *need*.&nbsp; Yes, we want to enlarge it, give it independent divisions, = =3D add=3D20 voices, etc.&nbsp; But are we hard up?&nbsp; Nope.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Now, coming back to the issue of expression =3D boxes.&nbsp; I,=3D20 too, being and American Anglican, thought that it would be impossible to = =3D do any=3D20 literature written after 1850 without 'em.&nbsp; But then I moved to=3D20 Germany.&nbsp; A friend of mine presided over a newish, large 3-manual =3D with NO=3D20 expression at all, COMPLETELY mechanical....no ventils, no combination =3D system of=3D20 any sort.....yet he played literature from every era, accompanied solo =3D voices,=3D20 instruments and choirs, and you would never have known that his seamless = =3D   crescendi were done with no mechanical assistance.&nbsp; Maybe we're =3D just=3D20 spoiled and a little lazy here in the U.S.?!&nbsp; ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Bestens,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Jeremy</FONT></DIV> <DIV><A href=3D3D"mailto:jwance@ou.edu">jwance@ou.edu</A><BR>ICQ# =3D 100983880<BR>AIM:=3D20 jeremywance<BR>"We can stand here like the French, or we can do =3D something about=3D20 it!"<BR>--- Marge Simpson</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_00AC_01C2F18F.94F07880--    
(back) Subject: Re: A Bedient replaced, and Anglican organs From: "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 23:45:43 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0650_01C2F196.51AEE500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Jeremy, welcome to the list. It is nice to hear someone write about =3D being happy with the organ that they play. You are a welcome addition =3D to PipeChat.... keep posting!   Sand Lawn   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0650_01C2F196.51AEE500 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Jeremy, welcome to the list.&nbsp; It = =3D is nice to=3D20 hear someone write about being happy with the organ that they =3D play.&nbsp; You=3D20 are a welcome addition to PipeChat.... keep posting!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Sand Lawn</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0650_01C2F196.51AEE500--    
(back) Subject: Re: Anglican organs and registration aids From: "Bud" <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:50:58 -0800       > Jeremy Wance wrote: > > I'm new here, and didn't catch the very beginning of this thread, but > I have a few comments. Hope you don't mind.....and if you do, ehh ;-) > > (snip) > > Now, coming back to the issue of expression boxes. I, too, being and > American Anglican, thought that it would be impossible to do any > literature written after 1850 without 'em. But then I moved to > Germany. A friend of mine presided over a newish, large 3-manual with > NO expression at all, COMPLETELY mechanical....no ventils, no > combination system of any sort.....yet he played literature from every > era, accompanied solo voices, instruments and choirs, and you would > never have known that his seamless crescendi were done with no > mechanical assistance. Maybe we're just spoiled and a little lazy > here in the U.S.?! ;-) > > Bestens, > Jeremy > jwance@ou.edu > ICQ# 100983880 > AIM: jeremywance > "We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it!" > --- Marge Simpson > > Not at all, Jeremy ... I have played finely-voiced 19th century American organs with unenclosed Great and Choir organs where you could do the same thing. Hook & Hastings in particular was good about providing the French "Quatre Fonds" on their three-manual instruments. It was possible to make a seamless STOP crescendo on the Great and Choir, thus:   (Choir and Great coupled)   CHOIR - Dulciana GREAT - Dolce CHOIR - Melodia GREAT - Stopped Flute CHOIR - Geigen Diapason GREAT - Violoncello GREAT - Doppel Flute GREAT - 2nd Open Diapason GREAT - 1st Open Diapason   This particular registration was for Old St. Paul's RC, Cincinnati (pipes now incorporated into another instrument elsewhere) ... the organ was a modest three manual of 30-something stops.   The only registrational aids were fixed mechanical foot-levers, which (if I remember correctly) brought on the 8' stops in approximately that order. But in any case, the angled stop-jambs (tubular pneumatic stop action) were easy to reach and the stops could be drawn by hand with no trouble.   Fenner Douglass made a rather convincing recording of the Franck Chorales on the (at the time, I think) all-unenclosed Flentrop in St. Mark's Cathedral in Seattle. Of course, that's a LARGE organ in a GOOD room.   MY generation HAD to learn hand-registration, because the old organs we played either (1) didn't HAVE a combination action, or (2) it didn't WORK. In high school I played "high" Anglican services on a sizeable 3m Austin with NO working combination action.   I really have no patience with organists who MUST have 99 levels of memory, "Next" pistons AND toe studs, etc. etc. etc. A friend of mine gave a recital recently where he spent EIGHT HOURS "programming" the organ. Granted, it was a digital organ, and he was setting up additional MIDI voices as well as stop combinations, BUT ... come on, folks ... I'm reasonably computer-literate, but I'm NOT a computer PROGRAMMER ... I'm an ORGANIST (grin).   Our present Allen has six generals and six divisional pistons. That gets me through Solemn High mass quite handily, and the only thing I use the pistons for is quick changes among the three major combinations: Hymns I - full to Fifteenth; Hymns II - full to mixtures; Hymns III - full to reeds and 32'. Practically everything else ... chants, anthems, voluntaries ... I hand-register, or at most I bring on the Swell reeds with Swell 6.   Most 19th century American organs had marvelous voicing with proper harmonic development and a natural (but very subtle) crescendo as you went up the scale. I have often wondered why 20th and 21st century builders didn't go copy THOSE voicing techniques ... those organs can play just about ANYTHING convincingly, and with far fewer stops. Those of you who have been to OHS know what I'm talking about ... bright, silvery organs with NO mixtures, that postively SING, even in dead rooms .... something else that 19th century American builders knew how to deal with FAR better than most contemporary builders. You will virtually NEVER hear a 19th century American organ that is screechy, overpowering, harsh, or ugly-sounding ... they simply didn't voice that way.   For most of the life of the organ in St. Paul's Cathedral in London, the Swell had but TWELVE stops in that ENORMOUS building; it did what it was supposed to do, and did it well. Look at some of the MARVELOUS *small* and *medium-sized* Cavaille-Colls that have survived, and the huge buildings that they fill quite adequately. The Swell needs a reed chorus, and some foundation tone to round it out; Anglican organists will want a celeste. Our Swell on the new organ isn't big by any stretch, but it will have all that:   16' Gedeckt - 12 8' Violin Diapason 8' Harmonic Flute 8' Gedeckt 8' Celeste (voiced to be used with either Violin Diap or Gedeckt) 4' Octave 2 2/3' Mixture V 16' Bassoon - 12 8' Trumpet 8' Oboe 4' Clarion   That's only NINE independent registers and thirteen ranks.   We couldn't afford a string AND a diapason; I opted for the Violin Diapason compromise, and the Harmonic Flute to fill it out (and to have a bigger flute under expression for English anthem descants). The big low-pitched mixture isn't intended for polyphony ... it's intended to ground the trebles of the reeds; the Great and Chair both have proper choruses for polyphony. The organ has full couplers, so I can make flutes 8-4 in the Swell. The Cornet is on the Great; the decomposee mutations are on the Chair.   I fear that hand-registering is becoming a lost art.   Cheers,   Bud