PipeChat Digest #3689 - Thursday, May 22, 2003
 
Re: Futurama
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Futurama
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Tuning knife trouble
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Tuning knife trouble
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: Futurama
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Close shaves with history
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: music, me, etc.
  by <patmai@juno.com>
Re: Futurama
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Off - topic HELP needed
  by "orgel koenigen" <adamkgny@yahoo.com>
Organ setting of  Wunderbarer Koenig?
  by <patmai@juno.com>
Re: Futurama
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Spam filtering
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Futurama From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:04:56 EDT     --part1_164.20ad401b.2bfd7c38_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi Colin:   The organ reform movement was both good and bad. To the good ensambles and choruses along with mixtures, numerous mutations and specialized reeds were reintroduced. The bad part is that most of these organs were tuned to modern temperments, in dead rooms. The charm of these instruments was killed by not going all the way, live rooms, and at least a well temper. The sound then gets a chance to bloom. There were exaggerations of course away from fundamental tone making the organ top appear too loud, and they were. Pedals were appointed one soft stopped rank at 16' pitch. The organ of course squeeled and had no guts, bass or underpinning.   The pendullum has swung back in the other direction, with the reaction, what have we done to these fine old romantic organs? Many didn't survive the butchering and the onslaught that went on for better than 40 years. The one good thing that has happened is that many of the new tracker organs are regaining their warmth, more liberal scaling, a bit more wind, and temperments that enhance the mixtures, mutations, reeds, Harmonic Flutes at 8' are returning and nice broad strings. These are the enlightened, smart young builders indeed. Their organs will be favorably compared to Andres, and Gottfried Silbermann. Well they should, you can make music on them and play church music without a struggle or compromise, or have to play the way the organ wants to. We have learned a great deal in the last half century. The lessons were hard, and I hope worth the failures, expensive failures I might add.   What have we learned? Well, to appreciate the old, and replicas need old treatment, and temperments. The modern is pretty well established. We know certain things never to do to an existing organ like try to change the leopard's spots with "IMPROVEMENTS". I hope we've learned to respect what already is.   I just wanted to add to your thoughts. I could go on but I didn't want to stifle anyone's thunder. I'm looking back with a historical perspective, and foreward with renewed hope for the future. It appears bright, if we heed common sense.   Ron Severin   --part1_164.20ad401b.2bfd7c38_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Hi Colin:<BR> <BR> The organ reform movement was both good and bad. To the good<BR> ensambles and choruses along with mixtures, numerous mutations<BR> and specialized reeds were reintroduced. The bad part is that<BR> most of these organs were tuned to modern temperments, in <BR> dead rooms. The charm of these instruments was killed by not<BR> going all the way, live rooms, and at least a well temper. The sound<BR> then gets a chance to bloom. There were exaggerations of course<BR> away from fundamental tone making the organ top appear too loud,<BR> and they were. Pedals were appointed one soft stopped rank at<BR> 16' pitch. The organ of course squeeled and had no guts, bass or<BR> underpinning. <BR> <BR> The pendullum has swung back in the other direction, with the = reaction,<BR> what have we done to these fine old romantic organs? Many didn't = survive<BR> the butchering and the onslaught that went on for better than 40 = years.<BR> The one good thing that has happened is that many of the new<BR> tracker organs are regaining their warmth, more liberal scaling, a bit<BR> more wind, and temperments that enhance the mixtures, mutations,<BR> reeds, Harmonic Flutes at 8' are returning and nice broad strings. = These<BR> are the enlightened, smart young builders indeed. Their organs will<BR> be favorably compared to Andres, and Gottfried Silbermann. Well they <BR> should, you can make music on them and play church music without<BR> a struggle or compromise, or have to play the way the organ wants<BR> to. We have learned a great deal in the last half century. The lessons<BR> were hard, and I hope worth the failures, expensive failures I might = add.<BR=3D > <BR> What have we learned? Well, to appreciate the old, and replicas need<BR> old treatment, and temperments. The modern is pretty well established.<BR> We know certain things never to do to an existing organ like try to <BR> change the leopard's spots with "IMPROVEMENTS". I hope we've<BR> learned to respect what already is. <BR> <BR> I just wanted to add to your thoughts. I could go on but I didn't<BR> want to stifle anyone's thunder. I'm looking back with a historical<BR> perspective, and foreward with renewed hope for the future. It<BR> appears bright, if we heed common sense.<BR> <BR> Ron Severin</FONT></HTML>   --part1_164.20ad401b.2bfd7c38_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Futurama From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 02:18:05 +0100 (BST)   Hello,   Digitally, I suspect!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- Alan Freed <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> wrote: > >   > In all innocence I have to ask: How does the legato > pedal work in such a > stop? And une corde, or whatever it's called? >     __________________________________________________ It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others. Call 08709 000032 to give or donate online now at = http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm  
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning knife trouble From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:22:29 EDT     --part1_9.11aba0da.2bfd8055_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi Andres and John:   Storing tools with the length toward magnetic North will magnetize them faster than anything else. Storing them to east and west will unmagnetize them.   Old sailing ships needed to tack in large V's to collect the wind to move foreward. Steel ships need to do the same thing even though they no longer need to collect the wind in sails to move foreward, but to keep the hull demagnetized. Failure to do that will cause the magnetic compass to spin out of control, and you are no longer sure where you are. The magnetic well of the earth is very powerful indeed.   Just a little scientific trivia.   BTW razor blades will last indefinitely stored the length to magnetic north. It keeps the crystalline structure of the blades sharp, if stored E and W they'll be dull by next AM. Russian soldiers favorite prank was to turn a guy's blade to dull it, and of course he cut himself all up the next morning. Every one of course laughed at the poor man's plight.   Ron Severin   --part1_9.11aba0da.2bfd8055_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Hi Andres and John:<BR> <BR> Storing tools with the length toward magnetic North will magnetize<BR> them faster than anything else. Storing them to east and west<BR> will unmagnetize them.<BR> <BR> Old sailing ships needed to tack in large V's to collect the wind<BR> to move foreward. Steel ships need to do the same thing even<BR> though they no longer need to collect the wind in sails to move<BR> foreward, but to keep the hull demagnetized. Failure to do that<BR> will cause the magnetic compass to spin out of control, and<BR> you are no longer sure where you are. The magnetic well of the<BR> earth is very powerful indeed. <BR> <BR> Just a little scientific trivia.<BR> <BR> BTW razor blades will last indefinitely stored the length to magnetic<BR> north. It keeps the crystalline structure of the blades sharp, if = stored<BR> E and W they'll be dull by next AM. Russian soldiers favorite prank<BR> was to turn a guy's blade to dull it, and of course he cut himself<BR> all up the next morning. Every one of course laughed at the poor man's<BR> plight.<BR> <BR> Ron Severin</FONT></HTML>   --part1_9.11aba0da.2bfd8055_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning knife trouble From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:35:25 -0400   John,   Well, this list is a source of all things wise and wonderful, - I have never heard that the magnetized tool has to be pointed east-west to be = able to remove the magnetism!   Pull the other leg, - it's got bells on it!   Bob Conway   John Speller tells us .........   >... if that doesn't work ... it is probably because you are pointing it >toward magnetic north while hitting it. Make sure you point it east-west >while hitting it. > >John Speller >      
(back) Subject: Re: Futurama From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 02:37:40 +0100 (BST)   Hello again,   I agree entirely with what Ron says about expensive failures in ill designed rooms, and in many situations, I welcome the return of broader, warmer sounds, which by now, accompany soundly designed chorus-work.   Hurrah for that!   I cannot agree about temperaments however!   When I played the Fisk at Harvard Uni shortly after it was installed, I was a bit taken aback by the tuning....if I recall correctly, Werkmeister II?   Even in the Baroque period, there were many different attempts to have some sort of well temper, and let us not forget that Bach wrote the "Well Tempered Clavier".   I play a well tempered Baroque replica of outstanding tonal quality, and because it is very Dutch in sound, very warm and very full, I can play an awful lot more on it than the specification suggests, including Reger, Mendelssohn, Rheinberger (if I care to learn any!) and, sin of sins, even Vierne. Only a fortnight ago, I played the "Etude Symphonique" by Bossi, and it sounded terrific.   Of course, we are blessed with THE most perfect acoustic, in a classical double cube with a BIG central space under a tower.....it's an acoustic to die for.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- RonSeverin@aol.com wrote: >     > What have we learned? Well, to appreciate the old, > replicas need > old treatment, and temperments. >     __________________________________________________ It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others. Call 08709 000032 to give or donate online now at = http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm  
(back) Subject: Re: Close shaves with history From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 02:46:30 +0100 (BST)   Hello,   Let me get this right.....if I shave, facing North/South, I will get an eternal blade and a perfect shave every time.   Wow!   I have been saved a fortune, because my blades only last about 5 days at best.   It just goes to show, that if you shave facing Mecca, you end up with a dull blade. That might explain those bearded gentlemen and a thing or two in history!!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK --- RonSeverin@aol.com wrote: >   > BTW razor blades will last indefinitely stored the > length to magnetic > north. It keeps the crystalline structure of the > blades sharp, if stored > E and W they'll be dull by next AM.   __________________________________________________ It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others. Call 08709 000032 to give or donate online now at = http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm  
(back) Subject: Re: music, me, etc. From: <patmai@juno.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:38:08 -0400   This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   ----__JNP_000_1e78.4f09.588e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi, Bud,   Will certainly continue to remember you in prayer. May you heal completely.   Pat Maimone ----__JNP_000_1e78.4f09.588e Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3Dcontent-type = content=3D3Dtext/html;charset=3D3Dus-ascii> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>Hi, Bud,</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Will certainly continue to remember = you=3D in=3D20 prayer.&nbsp; May you heal completely.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pat Maimone</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>   ----__JNP_000_1e78.4f09.588e--     ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!  
(back) Subject: Re: Futurama From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 22:38:07 EDT     --part1_1d3.a2f7987.2bfd920f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi Colin:   Werkmeister II is a little severe. I recommend Tartini/Valloti. All the keys sound good without the clashing of the thirds and sixths in chords, and the clashing of mixtures and the mutations on top of that. It's a warmer sound for church use. I tuned the organ this way, and even the derived mutations sound good. Reeds smooth out too. They produce a blaze of harmonics. It really isn't that far afield from equal, but it does sound much better.   Historically, Silbermann's used their own well temper and Bach liked it. Most of the Bach organs were tuned to 1/4 or 1/5 comma meantone. Clavichords and Harpsichords Bach used were well temper, and depending on the keys he wished to use, he could retune each in 15 minutes. Even at that, a great deal of modern stuff can be played on those if you chose the keys of the liturature carefully. Tartini/vallotti is very forgiving all the = way around.   I have a theory about the St. Anne P. and F. in Eb. In quarter comma it would sound dreadful, but perhaps Bach penned that one for the opening of a Silbermann or some other builder who finagled the tuning to favor playing in Eb. Perhaps his Fm work was played on the same organ. It's mystery to me why he would write music out of keeping with the norm of the instruments he knew. I don't think Bach ever played an organ with split keys. It all still sounds good 250+ years after the old boy's demise.   Equal temperment on Baroque scaled and voiced instruments, because of their tendency to high harmonic content is just tellingly harsh. It stands out like a sore thumb. It works ok on more voluptuous scaling and voicing of romantic or symphonic instruments. Their sound overall is darker.   Ron   --part1_1d3.a2f7987.2bfd920f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Hi Colin:<BR> <BR> Werkmeister II is a little severe. I recommend Tartini/Valloti.<BR> All the keys sound good without the clashing of the thirds<BR> and sixths in chords, and the clashing of mixtures and the<BR> mutations on top of that. It's a warmer sound for church use.<BR> I tuned the organ this way, and even the derived mutations<BR> sound good. Reeds smooth out too. They produce a blaze<BR> of harmonics. It really isn't that far afield from equal, but<BR> it does sound much better.<BR> <BR> Historically, Silbermann's used their own well temper and Bach<BR> liked it. Most of the Bach organs were tuned to 1/4 or 1/5<BR> comma meantone. Clavichords and Harpsichords Bach used<BR> were well temper, and depending on the keys he wished to<BR> use, he could retune each in 15 minutes. Even at that, a great<BR> deal of modern stuff can be played on those if you chose the keys<BR> of the liturature carefully. Tartini/vallotti is very forgiving all the = way<=3D BR> around. <BR> <BR> I have a theory about the St. Anne P. and F. in Eb. In quarter comma<BR> it would sound dreadful, but perhaps Bach penned that one for the<BR> opening of a Silbermann or some other builder who finagled the tuning<BR> to favor playing in Eb. Perhaps his Fm work was played on the same<BR> organ. It's mystery to me why he would write music out of keeping<BR> with the norm of the instruments he knew. I don't think Bach ever<BR> played an organ with split keys. It all still sounds good 250+ years<BR> after the old boy's demise.<BR> <BR> Equal temperment on Baroque scaled and voiced instruments, <BR> because of their tendency to high harmonic content is just <BR> tellingly harsh. It stands out like a sore thumb. It works ok<BR> on more voluptuous scaling and voicing of romantic or symphonic<BR> instruments. Their sound overall is darker.<BR> <BR> Ron</FONT></HTML>   --part1_1d3.a2f7987.2bfd920f_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Off - topic HELP needed From: "orgel koenigen" <adamkgny@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:45:13 -0700 (PDT)   In its patronizing way, aol has recently changed ITS e-mail settings to block e-mail from anyone having a home server DSL hookup, this is to prevent spam, but infact blocks e-mail from anyone who happens to have a sophisticated set up. -Adam   <agun@telcel.net.ve> Subject: Off - topic HELP needed From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:19:30 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Folks, Sorry to bother but I need to contact Mr. JONATHAN AMBROSINO for an urgent business matter, and since yesterday all my mails to him bounce back as "unwanted bulk mail". If anybody who knows him can tell him to check out his AOL account I would be immensely grateful.   Eventual replies private to me please. Thanks a lot in advance Andres.     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Organ setting of Wunderbarer Koenig? From: <patmai@juno.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 22:29:10 -0400   Good evening, Pipechatters,   An organist colleague seeks a straightforward organ setting of Wunderbarer Koenig (also known as Arnsberg) for a program. The text associated with the Arnsberg tune is "God Himself is with Us" #23 in the Book of Worship for Armed Forces.   I could not think of one right away, so I promised to ask your help. Thanks in advance!   Pat Maimone Post Chapel, West Point, NY Oct. 1, 1975 - June 3, 2003 patmai@juno.com   ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!  
(back) Subject: Re: Futurama From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 04:23:19 +0100 (BST)   Hi Ron,   That probably explains things in a nutshell.   The voicing of the organ I play is only really bright when the upperowrk is added. The scaling is quite big and the tone quite sombre and voluptious....almost romantic, but with barely any nicking at all.   I have said before, it is not unlike Haarlem which, incidentally, is tuned to well tempered and sounds utterly stunning in the building.   With all their intellectual might, the Dutch organists seem to go for well-tempered tuning. Only a few, such as the Ouderkerk (Sweelinck organ) and the old organ at Alkmaar seem to be meantone tuned, but they have a purity which is quite breathtaking.   I have to confess that historic tuning is NOT a strong subject with me.   Regards,   Colin   __________________________________________________ It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others. Call 08709 000032 to give or donate online now at = http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm  
(back) Subject: Spam filtering From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 23:07:00 -0500   "V. David Barton" wrote: =20 > He's probably got his e-mail system set to filter out messages with a > subject line of "urgent business matter," since that's what so many of = those > Nigerian scam letters start with. Try changing your subject line to > something more personal, and I'll bet it goes through.   That or else AoHeLl has Andr=E9s' ISP marked by SpamCop. I have to INTENTIONALLY un-mark any AOL addresses as friends in order to receive their EMAILS.   The frequency and sheer volume of SPAM nowadays requires such drastic actions. I prolly get on average, 75 pieces of SPAM DAILY!!   Faithfully,   G.A.   --=20 Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO Schneider Pipe Organs, Inc. 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (877) 944-2454 TOLL-FREE (217) 944-2527 FAX arpschneider@starband.net Home Office EMAIL arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com URL ADDRESS