PipeChat Digest #4094 - Tuesday, November 4, 2003
 
New email
  by "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip@quik.com>
Re: What great music for today?
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Richard Elliott Article
  by "David Carter" <davidorganist2002@yahoo.com>
Re: Paul Creston
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
RE: Seating of the Mothers
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Re: New email And Quick Cop
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4092 - 11/03/03
  by <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com>
Re: X-POSTED - Organ Lesson question - OFF TOPIC
  by <OrgelspielerKMD@aol.com>
Gordon Turk in Allentown PA
  by "Stephen Williams" <stepwill@enter.net>
RE: PipeChat Digest #4091 - 11/03/03
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
consultants responsibilities
  by "Del Case" <dcase@puc.edu>
RE: Organ Lessons
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
DR. INA GRAPENTHIN ORGAN RECIATL
  by <MH96@aol.com>
Re: consultants responsibilities
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: New email From: "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip@quik.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:05:31 -0600   Greetings all:   I have contacted the list administrator about the problem with my = overzealous spam filter. Please email me at rhazelip1@yahoo.com. This = should avoid any of the problems we have been having.   Richard Hazelip    
(back) Subject: Re: What great music for today? From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:19:21 -0800   Glenda,   Not exactly hummable, but with a truly memorable passage: two great sighs (and you probably thought an organ couldn't do that, but it is remarkably pictorial.) I can send a CD copy if you like -- I suspect your tastes are = a little more severe than mine, but this is a piece I crusade for. To use = that word in a harmless context.   And we're all fine around here! No job for my wife since she righteously stalked out of the snake pit in June, and the search is always = discouraging, but our heads are above water and the wolf still not close to the door, I think.   Little in the way of exciting travels (although she's found tempting fares for Dec/Jan travel to Costa Rica, if we decide to be irresponsible). I did go down to SF a few weeks ago for a college reunion and in paid a visit to = a friend of a friend whom I'd met in Salt Lake City. He lives in a very nice but not really palatial villa in the Mission district in SF a mile from where I grew up, and in his living room he has a 4 manual instrument with = 18 ranks of quite nice Ruffatti pipework, plus in the room below the living room, something like 140 equivalent ranks of Walker digital sampled = voices, which are unbelievably good. I wouldn't kill for it, but it did give me a few moments of futile regret that I hadn't devoted my life to making = money. (He's a retired cardiologist, but I hate the sight of blood, so I guess my path would have been some marginally ethical business venture -- no = shortage of opportunities there.)   Lemme know if you want Mader's masterpiece, even though October is now a long way off.   Michael     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 5:12 PM Subject: RE: What great music for today?     > Never heard of it - can you hum me a few bars? > > How the hell are you, and where exciting have you been lately? > > Glenda Sutton > gksjd85@direcway.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of > M Fox > > "October Interlude" by Clarence Mader -- > which by the way is a summit of post-romanticism as I understand it.) > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Richard Elliott Article From: "David Carter" <davidorganist2002@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:23:57 -0800 (PST)   Below is a link to a Salt Lake Tribune article about Richard Elliott's = concert as part of the 10th Annual Eccles Organ Festival.   www.sltrib.com/2003/Nov/11022003/arts/107306.asp   David Carter Sacramento CA   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/  
(back) Subject: Re: Paul Creston From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:25:19 -0800   As far as I know, the Suite op. 70 is the only Creston solo organ work = that has been recorded. Donald Dumler recorded the Prelude at St. = Patrick's Cathedral on a Gothic CD; the intrepid Marilyn Mason recorded = the entire Suite many years ago on an obscure Mirrosonic LP; and the = redoubtable George Thalben-Ball recorded the very jolly Toccata on a Vista = LP.   MAF ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Hazelip To: PipeChat Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 5:00 PM Subject: Paul Creston     I am studying the music of Paul Creston written for organ and am = especially interested in finding recordings of his organ music. It seems = obvious that the music was not widely recorded. Please let me know if you = have access to this treasure and are willing to help.   Richard Hazelip    
(back) Subject: RE: Seating of the Mothers From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:46:10 -0500   Dennis Steckley writes:   >Sorry, I meant "discreet", not "discrete." How long does the organist have? Until he/she is finished.......that's his/her judgment, not mine.   In that case, I have no objection. Thank you for your patience with = your organists, and with me. I apologize for what must have come across = as a peevish response.   I was reacting to my own experience that if such a cue takes more than a = few seconds to eventuate, the gesture will be impatiently repeated by = someone who is probably afraid that I didn't get the message the first = time, or is anxiously trying to get things back 'on track' after those = in the bridal party themselves have caused a delay compelling the = organist to turn to unplanned music.   I try graciously to meet requests like separate music for the seating of = the mothers when it is clear that the bride and bridegroom really want = it. But heaven forfend that it become standard practice or that the = church invite it. I suspect that a lot of such foofery occurs only = because *someone* has instructed a couple that it is one more i to dot = and t they must cross: attend to, consult about, make a decision, check = off their long list-- when they have plenty of more important matters on = their plates and would be just as happy as we would be if the whole = complication did not come up.=20   The traditional instructions for a wedding procession cited by Bud = (from, I think, the exhaustively detailed _Ritual Notes_) show, by = shocking contrast, how far non-liturgical or secular fashion has been = allowed to rewrite the once-usual order of service in a church. I've = played in a couple of fairly conservative Anglo-Catholic churches, where = a few people would actually know about _Ritual Notes_ and occasionally = refer to it, but not even there were the rubrics for weddings ever paid = any heed.   In 1979, I attended the Lutheran wedding of two friends, both excellent = and versatile musicians. For fifteen or twenty minutes we were treated = to a variety of preludial chamber music, mostly baroque, in which one or = both of them participated, sometimes with other guests who came up from = the congregation immediately before their piece and then returned to the = pews immediately afterwords. The fact that we were in the presence of a = musical feast whose elegance would have cost $500-$1000 to those unable = to DIY was only emphasized by the fact that the atmosphere was otherwise = so relaxed. Naturally I was anticipating whatever extra-special music = this cool and knowledgeable couple had chosen for their processional.   Well, when the time came, they just walked up up the aisle simply and = silently. It was astonishing, so unusual that it would never have = occurred to me. I couldn't recommend this procedure for everyone, but = there was no doubt that the taste was impeccable.      
(back) Subject: Re: New email And Quick Cop From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:52:38 -0600   >Greetings all: > >I have contacted the list administrator about the problem with my >overzealous spam filter. Please email me at ><mailto:rhazelip1@yahoo.com>rhazelip1@yahoo.com. This should avoid >any of the problems we have been having. > >Richard Hazelip   Folks   I have made the change in his address on the list.   i want to pass this along to all of you. if I find any address that comes back with one of those Quick Cop verification notices I will remove that address IMMEDIATELY. If you want to belong to a mailing list and want to use that service then you need to make sure that the list address is "Whitelisted" so that it does not need any verification.   Actually, those services are a spam operation themselves. If you follow through to verify your address you will start to get spam from the service trying to get you to join. They are a racket in and of themselves.   And NO discussion on this - this is an "Administrator ONLY" topic! If you have any comments or questiosn send them DIRECTLY to me.   Now back to PIPECHATTING!   David -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org mailto:admin@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4092 - 11/03/03 From: <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:58:39 -0500     >From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:04:21 EST   >$20 and $25 dollars is very reasonable. During the 80's I studied with a master teacher at $50 per hr. Ron Severin>   <I paid $20 per HALF hour for trumpet lessons back in 1965. Your rate seems dirt cheap.> Mike>   True. I paid $50/hour for organ lessons in 1970 in Houston. It was worth it.   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D   On 11/2/03 5:41 PM, "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> wrote:   <OK, what great organ music did people play for All Saints'/All Souls' today? >   Well, we Southern Babdisses didn't "do" All Saints Day and I played some lovlies from the "Green Mountain Organ Book" by Charles Callahan.   I will add for shock value (heeheehee) that Sunday our Southern Baptist church added an 8:30 service. Are you sitting down....   We now have a service of Holy Communion each Sunday at 8:30AM just like the Southern Episcopalians down the street!! ;-)   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D PS... If you'd like to see an interesting new organ case, go to the Chapel of All Hounds at www.baskerbeagles.com ! ;-) Scritchies and Haruffaroo-bahawow...   Unkie Doinky ... aka Bruce and the Baskerbeagles of HowlingAcres = http://baskerbeagles.com HELP FEED ANIMALS FOR FREE http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and = http://pets.care2.com  
(back) Subject: Re: X-POSTED - Organ Lesson question - OFF TOPIC From: <OrgelspielerKMD@aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:00:21 EST   Dear List,   I paid my first and second teachers $30 per hour. I charge the same for lesson with me. Ken Cowan and Alan Morrison, just to name two that I = know, are both $75 i think. (I study with neither, btw, I just know becuase I know = them, and I asked once) So, it all really depends. As my second teacher said, charge what you want... :)   Sincerely, Christopher J. Howerter, SPC Director of Music and Organist St. Paul's Lutheran Church Bethlehem, PA Cell: (610) 462-8017    
(back) Subject: Gordon Turk in Allentown PA From: "Stephen Williams" <stepwill@enter.net> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:07:47 -0500   Recital Announcement:   As part of the on-going series of organ recitals celebrating 10 years = since the rebuilding of St. John's organ, GORDON TURK will be playing = his tunes on Friday, Nov 7 at 7:30 p.m.=20   Most of you already know him well, but just in case, Dr. Turk is the = Organist in Residence at the Ocean Grove Auditorium in Ocean City, NJ = where has played numerous recitals on the mammoth organ there for many = years. He is also Organist-Choirmaster at St. Mary's Episcopal Church in = Wayne PA.=20   As is his style, the program will be varied and entertaining, including = two Marches on themes of Handel (Karg-Elert and Guilmant), Prelude and = Fugue in D (Bach), Chorale in B minor (Franck), Toccata (Gigout), = Roulade (Bingham), Adagio for Strings (Barber/Turk), Laudation (Dello = Joio), and an improvisation on submitted themes.   You can't beat the price . . $5 suggested donation. Hope some of you can = make it!   FYI, the series will continue with a two-organ concert by RICHARD VAN = AUKEN and REBECCA KLEINTOP-OWENS on December 5, 7:30 p.m. The program of = mostly Christmas music will include a brand-new piece by Bethlehem = composer Brian Henkelmann written this particular occasion in mind. The = additional organ will be provided by the Walker Technical Company, and = you can bet the two organs and organists will resound splendidly = together!   St. John's Lutheran Church, 32 S. 5th Street, downtown Allentown, = 610-435-1641 or reply to this email for more info.   Stephen Williams The Arts at St. John's  
(back) Subject: RE: PipeChat Digest #4091 - 11/03/03 From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:15:55 -0600   Mike,   If I were solely reliant on the music for income, I'd agree that it's = cheap. However, I work full time in the Communications biz, so it's not like I = NEED to give lessons for income. This is doing her a favor, more or less. Of course, I'm hoping that she will also be willing to serve as choir accompanist, so maybe there's some trade off!! :)   Jeff     > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of > Mike Gettelman > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:46 AM > To: PipeChat > Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4091 - 11/03/03 > > > Hi Bruce and Jeff, > Heck, I paid $20 per HALF hour for trumpet lessons back in > 1965. Your rate seems dirt > cheap. Granted my lessons were with the Cleveland Institute of > Music, but still. If I could > figure a way to commute, I'd take organ lessons from you too. > Grins > Mike > > hydrant@baskerbeagles.com wrote: > > > >From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> > > >Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:19:23 -0600 > > > > >I have a request from a potential new member of the > > congregation I serve to give her organ lessons. .... What is > > the going rate? > > > > Why an off-list reply request. This seems to be of interest > > to many people. I recently had a member in her late 60s as > > for organ lessons. I really enjoy teaching and wanted the > > opportunity more than the money (I can't believe I said > > that!) so I offered her the lessons for $20/hour. She > > said, "Wow! That's a steal!" So I guess that $25/hour is > > reasonable. I, for one, am interested in what others are > > charging/receiving. I have put out the word that I will > > teach youngsters with free starter lessons just to see if > > their interested. No takers yet, though. > > > > Scritchies and Haruffaroo-bahawow... > > > > Unkie Doinky ... aka Bruce and the Baskerbeagles of > HowlingAcres http://baskerbeagles.com > > HELP FEED ANIMALS FOR FREE http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and > http://pets.care2.com > > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: consultants responsibilities From: "Del Case" <dcase@puc.edu> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:38:18 -0700       On a number of occasions I have served as an organ consultant on a variety of projects, pipe, electronic, tracker, EP, large, small. Some have been gratis, others for pay.   Some things I have seen recently on these lists, plus a personal experience have caused me to do some serious thinking about consulting, especially ethical and liability concerns, among others.   I was recently asked to examine and report on a fairly recent installation by a small, local builder. All parties involved shall remain unnamed, to protect me.   The organ in question was a rebuild/enlargment. It contains a significant amount of incomplete and poor quality work. It also differs in several serious ways from the contract stoplist. For example, three stops that are listed as independent ranks are derived from one single rank. Another two stops that are listed as separate ranks are from one. A mixture that is listed as IV is III. This is a shortage of four ranks. A new chest that was designated as slider is not. The contract allowed the builder to "rebuild" manual chests or replace with new slider chests at his option. Guess which option he chose? The amount of "rebuilding" done is suspect since some chests currently need releathering.   So how does this relate to consulting? There was a consultant. The = contract said that when the organ was played publicly, that is a recital as opposed to service playing, it was considered accepted by the church. You guessed it, the consultant played a recital and the builder says the organ is finished.   Who shares in the liability/responsibility for this mess?     Any reactions?   Del W. Case Pacific Union College  
(back) Subject: RE: Organ Lessons From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:25:02 -0600   Someone on another organ list said to me:   Please excuse me for answering on-list, but I think this is very = pertinent to many members of this list, and I'd very much like to follow this thread if it develops.   I REPLIED :   No problem...I guess I was concerned about using these lists to solicit money issues, but now I see the relevance and definitely appreciate all = the responses.   Well, I'm in the southern county of St. Louis, which is a middle-to-high income area. From what I could see of the way this lady was dressed (and her friend who was with her), I'm thinking money isn't a problem, but that doesn't mean I'd base a fee on that. She also has position as a music teacher, so there's a lot of knowledge there. I'm thinking it'll fall = more along the technical instruction.   Which brings me to something that made me see RED. She attended a certain college, where another one of our lurking posters also attended, as I also did, and they told her to "give it up, you don't have what it takes." = This is the SECOND person I've heard having been told that. What the HELL are these people doing??? Even if a student DOESN'T have it, shouldn't they = at least be allowed to TRY?????? Hey, I'm a MUCH better organist than I was = 20 years ago when I got started...and I still to this day sometimes have = rhythm and other problems which can be a roadblock I have to overcome. So...how = is it that someone with these problems has been successfully pleasing congregations by leading their worship???   The problem is that now this lady has performance anxiety issues, to the point where she's even afraid to play in a handbell choir for fear of "messing everyone else up." Thanks, Professor H....now I have to try to work to undo the damage you caused! (of course, he's probably dead now, = but that's not the point!)   Thanks again, ALL! Just thought I'd share this with you all also!   Jeff      
(back) Subject: DR. INA GRAPENTHIN ORGAN RECIATL From: <MH96@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:51:32 EST       NEW GALLERY SCHANTZ PIPE ORGAN RECITAL   DR. INA GRAPENTHIN = (KUTZTOWN UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR & ST. JOHN'S ORGANIST)) SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 9 3:00 P.M. ST. JOHN'S LUTHERAN CHURCH 201 EAST MAIN STREET KUTZTOWN, PA 19530 610-683-3140   NEW GALLERY SCHANTZ PIPE ORGAN RECITAL    
(back) Subject: Re: consultants responsibilities From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 01:09:15 EST   Dear Del:   The organ consultant should have been looking out for the interest of the church. What the organ maintainence Co. did was unethical, and the so called consultant was also unethical. At some point he ceased to be a consultant and a party to fraud. I don't know what recourse the church has now, having accepted work that wasn't to original specs. but were unaware that anything was wrong. It seems the consultant accepted money from the church for his part, but may also have accepted patrimony from the maintainence co. to keep quiet. The church may have recourse with the consultant in court. Consultants are expected to be honest, ethical and knowledgable. It makes one further wonder who recommended this person to oversee this job in the first place. What really has taken place is stealing. Both the builder and the consultant are equally culpable in that they set out to cheat the church by promising certain work and then did as little as possible in violation of the contract.   Ron Severin   Message from Del case:   I was recently asked to examine and report on a fairly recent installation by a small, local builder. All parties involved shall remain unnamed, to protect me.   The organ in question was a rebuild/enlargment. It contains a significant amount of incomplete and poor quality work. It also differs in several serious ways from the contract stoplist. For example, three stops that are listed as independent ranks are derived from one single rank. Another two stops that are listed as separate ranks are from one. A mixture that is listed as IV is III. This is a shortage of four ranks. A new chest that was designated as slider is not. The contract allowed the builder to "rebuild" manual chests or replace with new slider chests at his option. Guess which option he chose? The amount of "rebuilding" done is suspect since some chests currently need releathering.   So how does this relate to consulting? There was a consultant. The = contract said that when the organ was played publicly, that is a recital as opposed to service playing, it was considered accepted by the church. You guessed it, the consultant played a recital and the builder says the organ is finished.   Who shares in the liability/responsibility for this mess?     Any reactions?   Del W. Case