PipeChat Digest #4118 - Tuesday, November 18, 2003
 
Re: ornamentation
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Invitation to Festal Evensong at St Dunstan's (xposted)
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
RE: Carpenter and Hell?
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
Re: Ornamentation in Couperin
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Ornamentation in Couperin
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Leslie Speaker Cables and Sheet Music for Sale
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Re: ornamentation
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
harpsichord for sale
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Ornamentation in Couperin
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Now Thank We All Our God
  by "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu>
Re: Now Thank We All Our God
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Now Thank We All Our God
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Now Thank We All Our God
  by <Pepehomer@aol.com>
Re: Now Thank We All Our God
  by "AJ" <AJ1995@cox.net>
Re: Now Thank We All Our God
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Now Thank We All Our God
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Hauptwerk (was Re: Alhborn Expander Modules)
  by "Bill Raty" <billious@billraty.com>
Re: Ornamentation in Couperin
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Now Thank We All Our God
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Re: harpsichord for sale
  by <KurtvonS@aol.com>
Re: Now Thank We All Our God
  by "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Re: Now Thank We All Our God
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Re: Now Thank We All Our God
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: ornamentation From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:58:28 +0000 (GMT)   Ron Severin wrote "I can see going to the trouble of learning all the right ornaments if I was going to make a definitive recording, or play them for peers in recital. For the average Joe six pack, he doesn't care."   If you work at the ornaments the rest becomes much easier. Attend to the details. They are good for both brain and finger. Someone, somewhere cares! John Foss     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : Line from Plati Kippers   ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk  
(back) Subject: Re: Invitation to Festal Evensong at St Dunstan's (xposted) From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:20:58 -0500   I hope someone's planning to play Sowerby's chorale prelude on St. = Dunstan's on this festive occasion, and that you're planning to sing the hymn, too! What a great tune.     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu           on 11/17/03 4:08 PM, TommyLee Whitlock at tommylee@whitlock.org wrote:   > > You are cordially invited to > > A Festal Evensong > > St. Dunstan's Episcopal Church > 1830 Kirby Road > McLean, Virginia 22101 > > Sunday, November 23, 2003 at 4:00 pm > > in celebration of > the dedication of the new Schlicker pipe organ, > the chancel renovations, > and the chapel renovations. > > A festive reception will follow the service. > > The Rev'd Joseph Webb, Rector > Mr. Rick Stockdale, Choirmaster and Organist > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: RE: Carpenter and Hell? From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:30:10 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Hmmmmmm... I kept myself away from this thread. It's not advisable to compare an = artist with another- dead or alive. It's never the same and the artists = themselves don't like it either... a delicate matter indeed. Some idiots here in Caracas once compared me with Bach or Cavaille-Coll (LOL)- the two genial gentlemen for sure revolved in their tombs for this offending insult <SG>   Concert organist vs church organist: Playing in a church gives a) experience; b) a "thick skin" (you play for a crowd so frequently that you get rid of "Scenic fear" [is that the correct term?] c) a "home instrument" to play and practice on, d) a fixed income. For this a church organist position is good for a concert organist who stands at the starting or intermediate point. But I doubt that church service is useful for a rocket like advancing artist's career however. With this I come back to our examples Biggs and Fox...   Just some abstract thoughts, and Alles Gute to Felix!- keep on your wonderful career. Hope to meet you some day.   Andres from *rainy* Caracas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.    
(back) Subject: Re: Ornamentation in Couperin From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:06:07 -0600   Obviously you are not at U of I! ;) Alicia Zeilenga Sub-Dean AGO@UI "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: RonSeverin@aol.com I just trill and have fun with it. It may not > be historical, but it is fun to listen to and sounds authentic > enough. There is a bit of freedom of choice. I for one don't > beat myself up over playing just the right ones, but enjoy > playing his pieces.      
(back) Subject: Re: Ornamentation in Couperin From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:07:36 -0600   Bruce, I believe that there is an English version of Couperin's harpsichord book. If you cannot find it, email me offlist because I think that I have access to it. Alicia Zeilenga Sub-Dean AGO@UI "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: bruce.shaw@shaw.ca To: pipechat@pipechat.org Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:14:53 -0700 Subject: Ornamentation in Couperin   > I'm contemplating a recital/lecture in a few months on French Organ > music and need to do something on Couperin. > > When my organ teacher taught it to me, he dictated exactly how the > ornaments should be done. The problem is, I'm doing a different piece > and I don't understand the theory behind what he taught me. > > I can't read French well enough to understand the original, so > downloading Couperin's harpsichord book isn't going to help. > > Is there an online resource that exhaustively explains Couperin's > ornaments and performance practice specifically as it relates to the > two organ masses? > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: Leslie Speaker Cables and Sheet Music for Sale From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:59:07 EST   Hello texstan@earthlink.net,   In reference to your comment:   =E8 1500 sheets of piano/vocal music item #2574003714     I've been an e-Bay seller for quite some time.   IMNSHO, $800 is far too high to start an auction off, even with as valuable=20= a=20 collection as this seems to be. You need to divide this into at LEAST 4=20 lots, and start each at around $150 (which is still $$$ higher than the aver= age=20 music auction).   Good luck - I hope for your sake that you DO find the ultimate buyer.   Victoria    
(back) Subject: Re: ornamentation From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:43:49 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   French Baroque is never easy because there was never a definitive "school" of correct ornamentation. Rather, each composer had their own ideas, but some did at least write the ornaments out as a performer's guide.....I believe Couperin did just that, but without driving to church to look at the music, I cannot remmeber which Couperin it was.   Of course, even if one learns or studies the ornamentation to the n-th degree, there is also the matter of "inegalite"....a sort of fluid rhythmic bending of the phrases; often one against the other.   I did study it once upon a time.....honest.....but I would never lay claim to be an expert.   However, perhaps the best comment I ever heard came from my ex-partner, an American with an extraordinary knowledge of music history and a certain passion for things old and French. (Sometimes young and French, but we shan't go there!)   I will try and quote what it was that he said, which went something like:-   "Before trying to play French music, you should listen to French language. There you will find inegalitie in abundance, and the over dotted rhythms of the French Baroque".   I thought he was barking mad of course, (well he was actually!) but as time went on, I began to understand.   Around that time, Kenneth Gilbert brought out his extraordinary series of Harpsichord recordings of French Baroque music, and I found myself shocked by the things he did. The more I listened, the more "right" much of it seemed, and I got quite into it at one point.   I reckon that those old recordings still have the power to shock and delight.   One of the most magical, and less extreme performers of old French music surely had to be Andre Isoir, and his recordings are worth listening to....and rather easier listening than the highly stylised Gilbert ones.   I suppose it all comes back to what is "authentic" in the wider sense. We can throw away strict rhythm sometimes, to the benefit of the music and the delightful ornamentation. Perhaps a bit like Jazz, that freedom of expression is well nigh impossible to write down, in spite of the efforts of French Baroque composers and latter day scholars such as Walter Piston.   My conclusion is therefore, to learn the ornamentation, but then ensure that it is subservient to the lyrical flow of the phrases and the unequal rhythms of the style.   I awlays feel that I should be waving my arms around when playing French baroque music, but I guess that would be counter-productive!!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell, UK     --- John Foss <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:   > If you work at the ornaments the rest becomes much > easier. Attend to the details. They are good for > both > brain and finger. Someone, somewhere cares!     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree  
(back) Subject: harpsichord for sale From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:29:50 EST   Hello List, I am selling a Zuckermann Flemish Single Harpsichord (8 8 4 buff). Anyone interested can email me for photos and a price. It is a great = little instrument. gfc   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Ornamentation in Couperin From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:45:58 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Greg scored a bull's eye.....   "L'art de toucher le clavecin"....that's the one!   I believe that is where the table of "agreements" is to be found, if memory serves correctly.   Now one for the scholars.....has the music of the Baroque composer/organist Sirret ever surfaced?   I believe that some of his music is to be found in the "Bibliotheque Nationale", but I've never heard that it has been published.   Break out the Merlot, get a stick of bread and some brie.....there's real scholarship to be undertaken here.   Just when you thought the French were all garlic and accordians!     Regardes,     Colin Mitchell (UK - a very Scottish name for someone descended from France; the historic family name being Barass)       --- Gfc234@aol.com wrote:   > For insight on Couperin's ornamentation, gety a copy > of "L' Arte de Toucher > le Clavecin" > Also study the harpsichord music     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree  
(back) Subject: Now Thank We All Our God From: "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:50:20 -0500   Good afternoon, pipechat buddies!   Does any one have any favorite arrangements of Now Thank We All Our God that would be appropriate for a postlude? Or what are the more well-known settings? Thanks a bunch!   Shelley  
(back) Subject: Re: Now Thank We All Our God From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:56:44 EST   In a message dated 11/18/2003 2:49:57 PM Central Standard Time, culverse@westminster.edu writes: Good afternoon, pipechat buddies!   Does any one have any favorite arrangements of Now Thank We All Our God that would be appropriate for a postlude? Or what are the more well-known settings? Thanks a bunch! Virgil Fox, baby! Be sure to practice the piston changes. HEHEH I still smile every time I hear the original recording of that.... gfc   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Now Thank We All Our God From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:00:34 -0500   On 11/18/03 3:50 PM, "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> wrote:   > Does any one have any favorite arrangements of Now Thank We All Our God > that would be appropriate for a postlude? Or what are the more > well-known settings? Thanks a bunch!   Surely the most celebrated one is that of Karg-Elert. But of course there are many more. Go for the three B's. Bach, Buxtehude, and Bruhns. Probably easier is Walther. But be assured that I don't know what I'm talking about.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Now Thank We All Our God From: <Pepehomer@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:07:26 -0500   I second the motion on the Bach/Fox arrangement - people get upset if I = DON'T play it. I am now becoming a big fan of the Paul Manz arrangement. = Very catchy!   Justin Karch Organist, Holy Trinity LCMS Rome, GA  
(back) Subject: Re: Now Thank We All Our God From: "AJ" <AJ1995@cox.net> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:15:19 -0800     Michael Burkhardt has written a brilliant "Festive Processional on Now Thank We All Our God". Sorry, my music is at the Cathedral so I cannot provide the publisher at this time. Burkhardt's setting would work very well as a postlude.   Audrey Jacobsen     Shelley Culver wrote: > > Good afternoon, pipechat buddies! > > Does any one have any favorite arrangements of Now Thank We All Our God > that would be appropriate for a postlude? Or what are the more > well-known settings? Thanks a bunch!  
(back) Subject: Re: Now Thank We All Our God From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:22:43 EST   (1) Karg-Elert (2) On the right instrument, nothing beats the Fox arrangement of the = Bach; it's best to have at least five full trumpet choruses, all enclosed = separately, on successively higher pressures, to achieve a really grand power buildup = in a theatrical, dramatic, and symphonic style.   Conservative, traditional, and uptight as ever, Sebastian  
(back) Subject: Re: Now Thank We All Our God From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:23:44 -0500   Now Thank We All Our God Piet Post Augsburg-Fortress (if still in print)   in a set of three: Doxology, Blessed Jesus, at Thy Word, Nun Danket   Dale Rider Independence, MO  
(back) Subject: Hauptwerk (was Re: Alhborn Expander Modules) From: "Bill Raty" <billious@billraty.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:39:12 -0800 (PST)   I have recently downloaded Hauptwerk (URL: http://www.hauptwerk.co.uk) and have beefed up a PC by adding lots of RAM to in order to run it. I'm overjoyed at its suitability for augmenting a COS/Baldwin practice instrument I have in my home, at a overall cost much less than an Ahlborn unit, at least in the US. There are already excellent Hauptwerk format captures of Schnitger, Marcussen, and Casavant instruments already commercially available for this system by third parties.   It is not perfect-- there isn't provision for changing the character or voicing of the captured instruments unless you're adept at signal processing and have software to assist you. On the other hand the instruments I've tried so far have much more intrinsic pipe organ character (subtle pipe-to-pipe voicing variance, wind turbulence, chiff, gurgle, and release effects) than the good but slightly sterile voicing in the vintage of digital Baldwin that I own (which COS has told me can't be adjusted or voiced).   If you are a computer / midi hobbyist and long for a practice instrument, give it a look. It certainly brings more winded voicing charm to my digital instrument.   Does it replace a pipe organ? No. But I personally can't afford pipes for practice.   I'll be happy to share my experience and configuration information with others who may be interested if you contact me privately (I'm guessing that the minutiae is probably off-topic for the list).   Happy music making everybody!,   -Bill         --- Walter Greenwood <walterg@nauticom.net> wrote: > I was recently quoted $2500 for the Alhborn module in the > USA. I passed. > And I don't understand the rave reviews - they don't sound > very good to me. > > > "Joel Armengaud" <jarmengaud@apsydev.com> wrote: > > > > Thanks for the answer. > > I am located in France, and to give you an idea: > > > > the Alhborn Archive is about $1700. > > the MDS Expander II is about $4000 > > > > -Joel > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & > related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Ornamentation in Couperin From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:58:14 EST   Dear Alicia:   Biggs didn't beat himself up over trill preciseness, and I figure what was good enough for him is good enough for me. Now, nobody is really absolutely sure, beyond a shadow of a doubt how Francois Couperin ornamented his music. Now Paul Bunges might have had an over riding opinion except his forte was German, he had edicts about everything. I play similarly to Andre Marshal and my ornaments are every bit as good as his. The organ he played these pieces on was a Cliqout. That brings about the type of sound and temperment expected for this music. The voicing of the organ was unsusual and also charming. The reeds were rather brassy and rough. I liked that. The registrations were authentic as possible, and I attempt to get that same sound out of modern pipes. Ornaments of this period were free in nature, and occasionally I add extras. I don't claim to be an authority on this period but my style is none the less valid and in keeping with the spirit of the music.   As to inegalis, I do it in spades. it makes the music dance and is fun to do. One poster opined that I left the ornaments out, nice try, but I never said that I left them out, not once.   Have a nice day ornamenting Francois Couperin's music and perhaps adding some extras here and there. You won't find that advice at the U of Il but why not? It's fun music, have fun with it. You mold it, don't let it mold you.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: Now Thank We All Our God From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:24:05 -0600   If you're not so conservative, traditional, and uptight, try Egil = Hovland's setting of Nun danket. More conservative, but off the beaten track, look = at Noel Rawsthorne's setting of the same chorale or Carl Piutti's = Fest-Hymnus, which begins and ends in a Wagnerian Die Meistersinger manner, has a fughetta on B-A-C-H, and treats the Nun danket chorale--all within 5 or 6 minutes. Bob Lind   > > Does any one have any favorite arrangements of Now Thank We All Our God > that would be appropriate for a postlude? Or what are the more > well-known settings? Thanks a bunch! > > Shelley    
(back) Subject: Re: harpsichord for sale From: <KurtvonS@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:58:53 EST   Hi Gregory;   I might be interested in the Flemish single. The ones I have seen/heard = were quite nice. Two questions; what is the compass, and what are you asking?   Thanks,   Kurt von Schakel    
(back) Subject: Re: Now Thank We All Our God From: "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:26:14 -0500   The Virgil Fox arrangement comes to mind..............;-)     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY   On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:50:20 -0500 "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> writes: > Good afternoon, pipechat buddies! > > Does any one have any favorite arrangements of Now Thank We All Our > God > that would be appropriate for a postlude? Or what are the more > well-known settings? Thanks a bunch! > > Shelley > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related > topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > >   ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!  
(back) Subject: Re: Now Thank We All Our God From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:16:24 -0800   The Randall Thompson Chorale Prelude on Nun danket alle Gott (E. C. = Schirmer #4495 -- an arrangement by Jonathan Barnhart from the original orchestral prelude to A Psalm of Thanksgiving) is maybe not as exuberant as some = would like for a postlude -- and you'd have to have a BIG 8' reed for the cantus in the Pedal if you were going to use a lot of organ for the manual parts = -- but it is a very nice piece indeed. I think I'll use it for a mezzo-forte/forte offertory, then use Richard Purvis's Thanksgiving for = the postlude.   MAF   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 12:50 PM Subject: Now Thank We All Our God     > Good afternoon, pipechat buddies! > > Does any one have any favorite arrangements of Now Thank We All Our God > that would be appropriate for a postlude? Or what are the more > well-known settings? Thanks a bunch! > > Shelley > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Now Thank We All Our God From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:06:59 -0800   Hmmm...   I'd go off the beaten track a bit and suggest Egil Hovland's Toccata... it's not really THAT hard, and it _is_ different...   Also, Flor Peeters wrote a nice arrangement in the set of 30 larger = chorale preludes - can't remember if it's in op. 68, 69 or 70 (there were 3 volumes of 10 = each)   If you're looking for something shorter and easier, Franz Schmidt's = Chorale prelude is one that comes to mind - it has a nice majestic lilt to it.   I'm sure I'll thnk of more as soon as I send this off....   Jonathan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 12:50 PM Subject: Now Thank We All Our God     > Good afternoon, pipechat buddies! > > Does any one have any favorite arrangements of Now Thank We All Our God > that would be appropriate for a postlude? Or what are the more > well-known settings? Thanks a bunch! > > Shelley > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/03