PipeChat Digest #4054 - Friday, October 17, 2003
 
diane bish arrangements
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Keys with flats
  by "Margarete Thomsen" <mthomsen@umich.edu>
AIO convention 01
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agunther@cantv.net>
Re: Evensong this week on BBC-3
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Flats vs.Sharps/Paul
  by "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com>
RE: Flats vs.Sharps/Paul
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agunther@cantv.net>
Re: AIO convention 01
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Subsets of talent (was flats/sharps thread)
  by "Mike Franch" <mike6514@hotmail.com>
Re: Subsets of talent (was flats/sharps thread)
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4053 - 10/16/03
  by <OrgelspielerKMD@aol.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4053 - 10/16/03
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
RE: Evensong this week on BBC-3
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Ampleforth Abbey - Faure Requiem Recording
  by "AJ" <AJ1995@cox.net>
Re: Evensong this week on BBC-3
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Evensong this week on BBC-3
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Ampleforth Abbey - Faure Requiem Recording
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: Evensong this week on BBC-3
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Evensong this week on BBC-3
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Evensong this week on BBC-3
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: diane bish arrangements From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:56:54 -0400   on 10/15/03 9:37 PM, tcbussey@comcast.net at tcbussey@comcast.net wrote:   > Hello, I am not that familiar with playing Diane Bish's arrangements > but I am gradually working my ability level to play them. Can anyone > tell me if the majority of her works are playable on a two manual > organ? Thanks! > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >   I think that they are for the most part quite playable on two-manual = organs. I played two last Sunday: "Come, Thou Fount of Every Blessing" and "How Firm a Foundation," departing from my usual fare of Krebs and Homilius because we were singing those hymns.     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: Re: Keys with flats From: "Margarete Thomsen" <mthomsen@umich.edu> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:52:11 -0400     On Wednesday, October 15, 2003, at 02:31 PM, Emmons, Paul wrote:   > One of my teachers said (and I believe it) that the second most > difficult major scale to play is B, and the most difficult is B-flat. > That would support my feeling, too, especially in that B-flat is a > commoner key than B. >   B Major is often the first scale that I teach for hands together. The student doesn't have to remember which black keys are used (they all are)! and the thumbs are used simultaneously in both hands. The students think it's great because they can play a scale with so many sharps! a real boost!   Margarete Thomsen    
(back) Subject: AIO convention 01 From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agunther@cantv.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:19:07 -0400   Andres Gunther agunther@cantv.net   AIO convention 2003 part 01   Internet is great- but it doesn't put really a "face behind a name". Even the best websites don't tell us all the backgrounds and what kind of character hides really behind the smiling or mean looking :) guy. My worst concern was: how would I, an almost unknown guy from South America with admittedly uncertain backgrounds, be accepted by people who have College = and University degrees and own (or at least trained and degreed at) world wide renowned organ building shops? Would I disappoint my colleagues when they saw how I am in 'real life'? I admit that I was somewhat expecting to nervous (to say it mildly!) when I boarded the plane in Maiquetia Airport = to join my first AIO convention.   To make it short: I don't know if I disappointed someone, but I met a = group of kind, open minded people and made a lot of new friends, and for that I will start with a big THANKS A LOT to everybody who was there. I am always reluctant to name individuals in my postings, but for justice I must = mention at random order :) Richard Houghten, Malcolm Wechsler, David Scribner, = John Nolte and Tim Boward, whose help and good will made me feel at home and as in a big family. But there were many more, of course. The most frequent question I got at the convention was: "Do you enjoy = it?", and the certainly the answer is "Yes" - I did.   I arrived at saturday afternoon, just to register in and come to the exhibits to get first impressions- and polish up my rusty english conversation skills. What most called to my attention at first sight was = how much electronics are gaining importance in pipe organ building. I wrote several times that I have some technical hesitations about this (and we third world orglers are not ready for it). Still true. Nevertheless this field is becoming so important for us that we cannot ignore or reject it = at once anymore. Further, electronic devices aid to keep pipe organ costs at acceptable level; this is an important consideration. I made good friends with the exhibitors. The folks from Gieseke had known Mr. Kleuker; several US- manufacturers knew me from my articles or the = Organ Lists- but the most excited exhibitor was Mr. Peter Laukhuff: "What, you = are from Caracas? - tell me: how does Mr. Schmeltzer?"- Unfortunatedly I don't have seen Mr. Schmeltzer in many years; he lives very retired. If he is alive he must be 103 years old.   Sunday morning I had a short stroll with Jorge Osorio, a young future colleague from my neighbouring country Colombia who works for Nichols & Simpson; but a nasty headache (late reaction to the flight perhaps) = spoiled all further plans. I preferred to go back to the hotel and have a nap so I could attend Todd Wilson's recital at St Mark UMC (AE-Skinner / Parkey). Opening number: THE Toccata & Fugue in d minor (for folks who complained that it isn't played in recitals anymore? :)- The organ has a superb tonal finish; its reeds blend in perfectly. The highlight for me was Cesar Franck's 1st Chorale in E Major. I enjoyed every minute of it. Less enjoyable was the noisy air condition...   Wine & Cheese, Dinner at the Crown Room and Exhibitor's opening night were over in a hush. When I went to bed few minutes before midnight I had the feeling that I had become one more of the family.   (will be ctd) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.    
(back) Subject: Re: Evensong this week on BBC-3 From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:22:37 -0400   On 10/16/03 2:08 AM, "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:   > the boy soloist in the Pie Jesu has to be on a par with Roy Goodman in = his > days as a chorister at King's College Cambridge.   Who could surpass Jonathan Bond, same choir, about 30 years ago?   Alan    
(back) Subject: Flats vs.Sharps/Paul From: "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:33:32 -0400   Let's digress for a moment on the question of whether flat keys or sharp keys are easier to sing/play. The new question is why would a composer choose a particular key for a composition? I'm familiar with the theories about keys having "color" or "affect" (using the word as a noun). Messaien, of course, chose keys based on such theories; for example, the anthem "O Sacrum Convivium" is in F# major because, for Messaien, F# major is the key of love. The same applies to his organ works. So: why did Chopin write the "raindrop" prelude in Db major instead of C# major? The scale fingering pattern is the same, right?   Just curious. David Baker    
(back) Subject: RE: Flats vs.Sharps/Paul From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agunther@cantv.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:56:42 -0400   Andres Gunther agunther@cantv.net   The answer to this is quite difficult and very subjective. I venture to = say that the meaning of a key changes from one individual to other- For = Maesiaen F# major meant love, but for other composer it coud be another key. Certain composers seemed to have an own (conscious or uncoscious) = preference for certain keys. Beethoven's best sounding piano works are in E flat = mayor or C minor IMO. [Or do *I* prefer to listen to Beethoven's works in this particular key?]- Cesar Franck's key was H (In America B) major or minor, = it seems to me. BTW he was nicknamed "Pater Angelicus" for choosing keys with = a bunch of sharps or flats for his improvisations :)   I have to improvise a lot in the church, and I do most of this in keys = with flats (G minor, A flat major, D flat major) for offertoire or Communion; = but the Voluntary when mass is over is almost always a key with sharps: G, D = or A major. Since I simply put my hands on the keyboard and start to develop = a theme this choices are rather unconscious. Only once I had to chose D flat or A flat consciously- the organ suddently had a flaw at tenor e and g = keys. (Needless to say it's fixed already :)   A key I *never* use however is B sharp major. Don't like it. LOL.   Cheers Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.   ----- Original Message ----- From: David Baker <dbaker@lawyers.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 10:33 AM Subject: Flats vs.Sharps/Paul     > Let's digress for a moment on the question of whether flat keys or > sharp keys are easier to sing/play. The new question is why would a > composer choose a particular key for a composition? I'm familiar with > the theories about keys having "color" or "affect" (using the word as a > noun). Messaien, of course, chose keys based on such theories; for > example, the anthem "O Sacrum Convivium" is in F# major because, for > Messaien, F# major is the key of love. The same applies to his organ > works. So: why did Chopin write the "raindrop" prelude in Db major > instead of C# major? The scale fingering pattern is the same, right? > > Just curious. > David Baker    
(back) Subject: Re: AIO convention 01 From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:47:41 -0400   Dear Andres,   You possibly do not realize how much your postings have meant to lots of listreaders. The saga of Venezuela's Organ history, and the often = wrenching saga of its musical present has been followed with immense interest and appreciation by many of us. Meeting the man behind it all was a great pleasure. You need to put aside your fear, expressed thus: "I don't know = if I disappointed someone." Not a chance! We hope to see you again, perhaps = OHS Buffalo in July, AGO Los Angeles, or AIO in the New York area would all be good for starters. Perhaps you can apply for a grant for study at the incomparable OHS Archives in Princeton. There is nothing quite like it in the world, and you could hopefully hook that on to one of your visits to a convention.   We do want you to come back!   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agunther@cantv.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 10:19 AM Subject: AIO convention 01     > Andres Gunther > agunther@cantv.net > > AIO convention 2003 part 01 > > Internet is great- but it doesn't put really a "face behind a name". = Even > the best websites don't tell us all the backgrounds and what kind of > character hides really behind the smiling or mean looking :) guy. My = worst > concern was: how would I, an almost unknown guy from South America with > admittedly uncertain backgrounds, be accepted by people who have College and > University degrees and own (or at least trained and degreed at) world = wide > renowned organ building shops? Would I disappoint my colleagues when = they > saw how I am in 'real life'? I admit that I was somewhat expecting to > nervous (to say it mildly!) when I boarded the plane in Maiquetia = Airport to > join my first AIO convention. > <Huge Snip>      
(back) Subject: Subsets of talent (was flats/sharps thread) From: "Mike Franch" <mike6514@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:55:59 -0500   This discussion brings to me another interesting difference between = musical artists that we are. For example:   On a digital instrument with a transposer button, can you play a key that has been electronically transposed? Do you play by ear? Do you have perfect pitch? (I know there was a thread on this: A440, temperaments, etc..the topic has been widely covered already) Can you transpose a piece just by reading the notes on the page, or do you =   transpose by ear? Can you sight read? Can you pick up from the middle of a piece, or do you always have to start =   at the beginning? Do you "sniff" the beat, or have another annoying habit that you're = unaware of that you do at the beninning of a phrase, at the end of a phrase, or at =   the end of a piece? (This is NOT a talent, mind you!). Do you play stoically, or have these wild swings of emotion that you get into? How about when you play, do you play like you're "chopping down a tree" or =   like you're "rocking a baby to sleep"? (Another question that is not a talent)   All of these are subsets of talents that we either possess inherently, or have to really work on to get, or just by virtue of having one of those talents, simply does not bother to try another one of these subsets of talent?   This directly relates to the natural talent or learned skill of playing in =   sharps and flats. Either by constant training or by inherent talent, can = we master this skill, or by having a mental block, will never understand the talent.   Mike Franch Madison, WI   _________________________________________________________________ See when your friends are online with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Subsets of talent (was flats/sharps thread) From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:48:34 -0700       Mike Franch wrote:   > This discussion brings to me another interesting difference between > musical artists that we are. For example: > > On a digital instrument with a transposer button, can you play a key > that has been electronically transposed?   Yes   > Do you play by ear?   Yes   > Do you have perfect pitch? (I know there was a thread on this: A440, > temperaments, etc..the topic has been widely covered already)   NO, thank the good Lord (grin)!   > Can you transpose a piece just by reading the notes on the page, or do > you transpose by ear?   Both   > Can you sight read? > Can you pick up from the middle of a piece, or do you always have to > start at the beginning?   ??? Do you mean when playing from memory, or when playing from score?   > Do you "sniff" the beat, or have another annoying habit that you're > unaware of that you do at the beninning of a phrase, at the end of a > phrase, or at the end of a piece? (This is NOT a talent, mind you!).   Again, ??? ... the tempi of the hymns and the liturgy (making allowances for different organs, choir, congregations and acoustical settings) are in my BLOOD after 50 years of doing it.   Do > you play stoically, or have these wild swings of emotion that you get = into? > How about when you play, do you play like you're "chopping down a tree" > or like you're "rocking a baby to sleep"? (Another question that is not > a talent)   In a church filled with incense, with the magnificant slow liturgical dance of Solemn Mass going on at the altar, my improvisations are more of the "storming the gates of heaven itself" variety (grin). > > All of these are subsets of talents that we either possess inherently, > or have to really work on to get, or just by virtue of having one of > those talents, simply does not bother to try another one of these > subsets of talent? > > This directly relates to the natural talent or learned skill of playing > in sharps and flats. Either by constant training or by inherent talent, > can we master this skill, or by having a mental block, will never > understand the talent. > > Mike Franch > Madison, WI >   When I look at a score (or the keyboard, for that matter), I "see" the harmonic analysis automatically. That's why this whole discussion has sorta puzzled me. A tonic chord is a tonic chord; a dominant chord is a dominant chord, no matter WHAT key you're in. You just put your hands "like so" and play the chords.   E flat minor and g flat major are two of my favorite keys, and as it happens, a lot of the hymns and the liturgy are best played in those keys for the sake of keeping the range within the congregation's "comfort zone."   There may be something else at work here ... I grew up with organs that were mostly tuned to A=3D435; I LIKE that mellow sound; I transpose things =   in church down at least a half-step most of the time, because our hymnal was produced in the same era. That accounts for the occasional high F (and one high G!) in the soprano part in the Episcopal Hymnal 1940.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4053 - 10/16/03 From: <OrgelspielerKMD@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:49:10 EDT   Dear List,   The C Major scale is the most difficult to play, contrary to some peoples beliefs. I believe it is all quite mental really. If one were to say to = the average muscian, "The C Major scale is the most difficult one," quite a = few would laugh at that, even though C Major is indeed the most difficult because = you don't have points of reference like the keys with flats/sharps. Interesting....aye?   Sincerely, Christopher J. Howerter, SPC    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4053 - 10/16/03 From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:07:37 -0500   I would certainly agree that C major is difficult. :) My favorite scale is F# major, just don't mention the arpeggio ;)   Alicia Zeilenga Sub-Dean AGO@UI "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: OrgelspielerKMD@aol.com To: pipechat@pipechat.org Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:49:10 EDT Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4053 - 10/16/03   > Dear List, > > The C Major scale is the most difficult to play, contrary to some > peoples > beliefs. I believe it is all quite mental really. If one were to say > to the > average muscian, "The C Major scale is the most difficult one," quite a > few would > laugh at that, even though C Major is indeed the most difficult because > you > don't have points of reference like the keys with flats/sharps. > Interesting....aye? > > Sincerely, > Christopher J. Howerter, SPC >      
(back) Subject: RE: Evensong this week on BBC-3 From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:27:31 -0400   > There are only really four outstanding catholic church music set-ups in the UK, of which Brompton Oratory is one. [Others: Westminster Cathedral, Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral, = Ampleforth Abbey]   Aside perhaps from a few abbeys where the chanting is very fine, I = suspect that any one of these could put every Roman Catholic = establishment to shame in the United States, with the possible exception = of the Cathedral of the Madeleine, Salt Lake City, which has had a = co-educational day choir school for some ten years.   The situation is probably improving very slowly, but we have a long way = to go before the standard of pre-Vatican II is recovered. Even back then, I doubt that there were many of the caliber of those = four, but there were many more close to it than there are now.   More and more parish churches are trying to put Humpty Dumpty back = together, compared to ten years ago, but my impression is that one still = needs to go to some trouble to find one: the average parish church = continues to offer an unrelieved diet of musical mediocrity, together = with a folksy liturgical laissez-faire that might if anything be = worsening.   Is the usual standard similar to this in Britain, or do these four = establishments with which you are blessed provide some inspiration to = the grass roots to maintain a tradition?          
(back) Subject: Ampleforth Abbey - Faure Requiem Recording From: "AJ" <AJ1995@cox.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:22:42 -0700     > Ampleforth Abbey, here > in Yorkshire. The plainsong sung by the monks is > famous throughout the RC church, but when the boys > voices are added, the effect is just perfection. > > Their recent recording of the Faure Requiem, IMHO, is > the best ever put on disc   > The CD is worth getting just for that solo, but the > rest is absolutely flawless throughout.   Where can this CD be purchased? I checked the Abbey's website and it was not listed as one of their recordings.   A. Jacobsen  
(back) Subject: Re: Evensong this week on BBC-3 From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:57:50 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I seriously think this boy actually does.   Never have I heard such feeling in a boy's voice, and the control is miraculous.   It is a MUST for any choral enthusiast.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- Alan Freed <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> wrote: > Who could surpass Jonathan Bond, same choir, about > 30 years ago?     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Evensong this week on BBC-3 From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:01:25 -0400   On 10/16/03 6:57 PM, "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:   > I seriously think this boy actually does. > > Never have I heard such feeling in a boy's voice, and > the control is miraculous. > > It is a MUST for any choral enthusiast. > That's saying a lot. I shall have to find a recording. MUCH appreciate = the recommendation.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Ampleforth Abbey - Faure Requiem Recording From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:01:40 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   The recording is called "In paradisum' "   Try the following:-     http://www.ampleforthcollege.york.sch.uk/music/sound/cds.htm   Hope this helps.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- AJ <AJ1995@cox.net> wrote: > > Where can this CD be purchased? I checked the > Abbey's website and it > was not listed as one of their recordings.     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: RE: Evensong this week on BBC-3 From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:11:25 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Most catholic church music is fairly dire in the UK, but at most of the cathedral churches, they have good choirs and excellent choir trainers.   Locally, Leeds Cathedral (RC) has a very good choir, and in fact, one of the organists, Joe Cullen, went to Westminster Cathedral.   However, the main four are just outstanding, even by the highest UK standards of choral music.   Sadly, it doesn't seem to filter down into parish life.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> wrote: > Aside perhaps from a few abbeys where the chanting > is very fine, I suspect that any one of these could > put every Roman Catholic establishment to shame in > the United States> > Is the usual standard similar to this in Britain, or > do these four establishments with which you are > blessed provide some inspiration to the grass roots > to maintain a tradition?     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Evensong this week on BBC-3 From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:21:04 -0700   Doesn't Farm Street maintain a choral establishment?   Cheers,   Bud   Colin Mitchell wrote:   > Hello, > > Most catholic church music is fairly dire in the UK, > but at most of the cathedral churches, they have good > choirs and excellent choir trainers. > > Locally, Leeds Cathedral (RC) has a very good choir, > and in fact, one of the organists, Joe Cullen, went > to Westminster Cathedral. > > However, the main four are just outstanding, even by > the highest UK standards of choral music. > > Sadly, it doesn't seem to filter down into parish > life. > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchell UK > > --- "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> wrote: > > >>Aside perhaps from a few abbeys where the chanting >>is very fine, I suspect that any one of these could >>put every Roman Catholic establishment to shame in >>the United States> >>Is the usual standard similar to this in Britain, or >>do these four establishments with which you are >>blessed provide some inspiration to the grass roots >>to maintain a tradition? > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Evensong this week on BBC-3 From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:23:40 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Probably, but they lost the farm!!   :)   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- quilisma@cox.net wrote: > Doesn't Farm Street maintain a choral establishment?     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com