PipeChat Digest #4056 - Saturday, October 18, 2003
 
Re: Subsets of talent (was flats/sharps thread)
  by "Bruce Miles" <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk>
Transposing
  by "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com>
Re: Diane Bish arrangements
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Job announcement--x-post
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Transcribing
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
John Grew in NYC
  by "Hoffman, Christine" <hoffmanc@SAINTIGNATIUSLOYOLA.ORG>
Re: Transcribing
  by "leora holcomb" <leh637@yahoo.com>
Re: Transposing
  by "Kealypaul" <kealypaul@yahoo.com>
It's Irving Berlin's piano .. (was Transposing)
  by "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com>
Re: It's Irving Berlin's piano .. (was Transposing)
  by "Kealypaul" <kealypaul@yahoo.com>
Re: Job announcement--x-post
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Job announcement--x-post
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
A new job at Christmas?
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: A new job at Christmas?
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: A new job at Christmas?
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: A new job at Christmas?
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
AIO convention 03
  by "=3D?Windows-1252?B?QW5kculzIEf8bnRoZXI=3D?=3D" <agunther@cant
Re: A new job at Christmas?
  by "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net>
Re: A new job at Christmas?
  by "leora holcomb" <leh637@yahoo.com>
RE: A new job at Christmas?
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Subsets of talent (was flats/sharps thread) From: "Bruce Miles" <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:34:10 +0100   Hello all,   Re loss of perfect pitch and transposition -   Loss of perfect pitch is usually due to age - I know all about this - it happened to me. Things are so bad now that the only way I can sing from music is to read from the music and transpose it in my head on the fly and sing from the new version. I have to transpose upwards and the amount of tranposition depends on the time of day and how tired I am. It can be up = to a major third. But if I am sitting at a keyboard the problem disppears completely.   Read all about it in 'The Musician's Guide to Acoustics' - Campbell and Greated (OUP)   Bruce Miles   website - http://www.gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk/index.html   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 6:05 PM Subject: RE: Subsets of talent (was flats/sharps thread)     Mike Franch asks:       > Do you have perfect pitch?   I used to, but it has now become quite imperfect. Perhaps that came from sitting in the front row for half of a Virgil recital around 1969. One of my fellow students had warned me, "Remember, you used to have perfect pitch."   > Can you transpose a piece just by reading the notes on the page, or do = you transpose by ear?   Sometimes one way, sometimes the other. "By ear" is the easiest way, of course, if it is a hymn or simple piece that you already know. Another = way (recommended by some people who do it well) is to read the notes as though they were in movable clefs. A third way is to do harmonic analysis on the fly, which is a matter both of reading the notes and working by ear. I'm not expert at transposition, but managed to do it well enough to pass my AAGO.   > Can you sight read?   Yes, I used to be quite good at it, but everyone should prepare to face = the fact eventually, that a prerequisite for good sight reading is good sight. It doesn't get any better as one gets on in years. But then, sight reading ability does allegedly have its drawbacks. Early on as a student of = Jerald Hamilton, he asked me whether I were a good sight reader. I said yes, I thought I was pretty good. He replied, "I am too, and you have my deepest sympathy."   > Can you pick up from the middle of a piece, or do you always have to = start at the beginning?   I never heard that picking up from the middle of a piece is a problem for anyone, unless you're thinking of playing from memory. It is sometimes a problem for relatively untrained choirs, who can be very fussy about where they are asked to begin singing in a rehearsal. While there is every = reason to start at an easy and natural spot most of the time (e.g. "a rehearsal letter") , I also think that there is a pedagogical and disciplinary = benefit to starting at an awkward spot once in awhile just for the halibut. This would be an interesting question to discuss.   > Do you "sniff" the beat, or have another annoying habit that you're unaware of   Not that I'm aware of :-)   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Transposing From: "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:46:19 -0400   > Andrew Mead said: > > I have always transposed. When I see a score marked with 2 sharps, I > play 5 > flats without even thinking. Maybe this is why no one ever wishes to > play > with me. Interesting phenomena, isn't it?   I do the same thing. I didn't say anything because I though it was perhaps wierd. Anyway, it's nice to know I'm not alone!   David Baker    
(back) Subject: Re: Diane Bish arrangements From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:46:15 EDT   I've played some of Diane's arrangements on two manual organs before, but they are generally sorely lacking. Don't forget, the bulk of her stuff = was written while she was the organist at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church, Ft. =   Lauderdale, Florida, where they have a V/117 Ruffatti. The arrangements = usually offer registration suggestions based on the disposition of that instrument. I = have had much better success playing her pieces on 3 manual organs, but they = work best on 4 or 5 manual instruments, only because they tend to have the = stops that she calls for. There are some of her arrangements that really need = to be done on larger instruments because of the effects that she calls for--"A = Mighty Fortress" comes to mind, where she has antiphonal trumpet fanfares between =   chamades in the front organ and the chamade in the antiphonal division. = Her arrangement of "Come, Thou Fount of Every Blessing" also works better if = there is a big solo reed. It just doesn't have the same punch when played on = flutes 8, 4, 2 with the Gt. Trumpet playing the melody, when she calls for full foundations to mixtures with a solo Trumpet melody. The other thing that = one must have is a very solid technique, because she employs some very pianistic techniques in a few of her pieces--such as "Morning Has Broken", and she = loves parallel third triplet or sextuplet motives, in "Christ the Lord is Risen = Today" and "How Firm a Foundation". The organist playing her works also has to have = a very, very strong sense of rhythm, because she has an almost metronomic = sense of rhythm. It's needed in a lot of her arrangements because she employs = lots of off-beat pedal notes and off beat accompaniments--I've heard people try = to muddle through some of her stuff before, and all the accented, off-beat = notes ended up being on the beat by the time the piece was over. While it = didn't sound bad, it didn't sound good, and I don't think it was what Diane = intended.   Monty Bennett    
(back) Subject: Job announcement--x-post From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:56:01 EDT   First United Methodist Church, Cheraw, SC, is seeking a Director of Music/Organist.. The position could be available immediately or could = wait until the first of the year. The current musician tendered her resignation as of = Dec. 21, but the minister told me that she did it just to have the Christmas = music covered. The church would hire someone immediately if the successful = candidate was available now.   Currently, the job is 20 hrs. a week, but could be made full-time, if the candidate wanted to do Christian Education or Youth work. The church is = in the process of revamping the job description, so contact the church directly = for more information and a job description.   The church has a 2 manual, 44 rank Casavant organ from 1984 or 1985 (I = forget offhand) that is quite nice and more than adequately fills the historic sanctuary.   Cheraw, SC, is about 65 or 70 miles east of Charlotte, NC, and is known as =   "the prettiest town in Dixie." It's claim to fame is being the hometown = of jazz legend, Dizzy Gillespie.   For more information, please contact the church directly--I told the = pastor that I would post the job listing on here while they get their job = description finalized and decide where and how they are going to advertise.   First United Methodist Church of Cheraw Rev. Dr. Gene Ammons, Pastor Mr. Crawford Moore, Chair of search committee PO Box 129 Cheraw, SC 29520    
(back) Subject: Re: Transcribing From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:36:36 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Funny thing that!   When I play that jolly little thingamibob by Percy Whitlock in Gb major, I just dump all the flats and substitute an F#.   Is that cheating?   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- David Baker <dbaker@lawyers.com> wrote: > > Andrew Mead said: > > > > I have always transposed. When I see a score > marked with 2 sharps, I > > play 5 > > flats without even thinking.   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: John Grew in NYC From: "Hoffman, Christine" <hoffmanc@SAINTIGNATIUSLOYOLA.ORG> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:32:24 -0400   Sacred Music in a Sacred Space presents McGill University Organist John Grew Performing the Livre d'Orgue of Nicolas de Grigny   McGill University Organist John Grew celebrates the 300th anniversary of = Nicolas de Grigny (1672-1703) performing the Kyrie and Gloria of de = Grigny's monumental Livre d'Orgue (1699), considered by many to = represent the high point of the French Classical organ repertory. On = Sunday, November 9, 2003 at 4:00 p.m. the New York City Chapter of the = American Guild of Organists teams with Sacred Music in a Sacred Space to = present Mr. Grew on the acclaimed Mander pipe organ at St. Ignatius = Loyola Church, Park Avenue at 84th Street. The Schola of St. Ignatius = Loyola joins Mr. Grew to sing the alternatim chants of the mass. Mr. = Grew is acknowledged to be one of the world's leading experts and = performers of the French Classical repertory; he also performs = 20th-century works by Canadian composers Raymond Daveluy, Bengt = Hambraeus and Healey Willan. =20   Free for registered members of the AGO New York City chapter.=20 For others,tickets in advance are $20, $16 for students and those 65=20 and over. At the door, tickets will be $25/$20. =20 Information and tickets: 212.288-2520 or www.saintignatiusloyola.org   PROGRAM Nicolas de Grigny (1672-1703): from Livre d'Orgue (1699) Kyrie 1er Kyrie en taille =E0 5 Fugue =E0 5, qui renferme le chant du Kyrie Cromorne en taille =E0 2 parties Trio en dialogue Dialogue sur les Grands Jeux Gloria Et in terra pax, =E0 5 Fugue Duo R=E9cit de tierce en taille Basse de Trompette ou de Cromorne Dialogue Fugue =E0 5 Trio Dialogue with chants sung by the Schola of the Choir of St. Ignatius Loyola Raymond Daveluy (b. 1026): Chaconne from 3i=E8me Sonate=09 Bengt Hambraeus (1928-2000): Selections from Livre d'Orgue de McGill = (1981) Healey Willan (1880-1968): Passacaglia and Fugue No. 2 in E minor=09   For more information on John Grew, see http://www.music.mcgill.ca/grew/   -Christine Hoffman Music Administrator Church of St. Ignatius Loyola 980 Park Avenue New York, NY 10028 646.981.2612 fax 212.734.3671 hoffmanc@saintignatiusloyola.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Transcribing From: "leora holcomb" <leh637@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:26:00 -0700 (PDT)   This brings up a thread of pianists (and organists, believe it or not) who = cannot play in more than 2 sharps. Luckily, I have played with pianists = (except 1) who played the hymns as they were written, although we could = both transpose to about any key (the last pianist). I start in a new = church tomorrow and the pianist is quite accomplished, although the music = director is only part time. They have a 2 manual digital computer Allen. = For the size of the sanctuary it is sufficient and the best sounding Allen = I have played. It's good to be back on pipechat. My health is improving = but I still need prayers. The marriage is wonderful and we are very = happy. Lee (and Keith)   Colin Mitchell <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:Hello,   Funny thing that!   When I play that jolly little thingamibob by Percy Whitlock in Gb major, I just dump all the flats and substitute an F#.   Is that cheating?   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- David Baker wrote: > > Andrew Mead said: > > > > I have always transposed. When I see a score > marked with 2 sharps, I > > play 5 > > flats without even thinking.   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org         --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search  
(back) Subject: Re: Transposing From: "Kealypaul" <kealypaul@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:39:16 -0700 (PDT)   It's a common occurrence, all right.   I remember Richard Unfried telling us of the time he visited a church one Sunday (I believe it was with his sister) and they asked him to accompany on the organ, along with their pianist. Well, he agreed (he=92s that kind of guy) and as the hymns were announced, when they came to a particular hymn, the pianist SCREAMED 20 feet across the platform, "FLATS, PLEASE."   It startled him so he almost fell off the bench, but commented, since she was playing the intros, he could pretty well figure out what she was doing to the music without her scream. Duh!   So he ran into a person who automatically played flats, as many do. So did my mom ... who maintained people who learned to play hymns play flats and people who began with classics play sharps ... but I never heard her scream across the platform about it.   He also mentioned when the Crystal Cathedral got a "transposing" organ, he always wanted to hang a sign on that knob, "out of order," since he was a transposing organist ... didn=92t need such a knob.   As an aside, we enjoyed seeing the Gershwin piano displayed at the Smithsonian .. the one with a transposing keyboard, since he only played the black notes, and it could shift the keys up and down the strings to have what he played come out in any key.   It would probably mess up my composing to play one note and hear another tone come out, as it does sometimes in MIDI, but it didn't seem to bother him .... his compositions, by whatever means transcribed, have far outnumbered many of us who are picky about such things, so I take a deep breath <sigh> and go on.   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Paul E. Kealy www.MediaExcellence.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++           =3D=3D=3D=3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D   > Andrew Mead said: > > I have always transposed. When I see a score marked with 2 sharps, I > play 5 > flats without even thinking. Maybe this is why no one ever wishes to > play > with me. Interesting phenomena, isn't it?   I do the same thing. I didn't say anything because I though it was perhaps wierd. Anyway, it's nice to know I'm not alone!       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: It's Irving Berlin's piano .. (was Transposing) From: "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:01:03 -0500   I am sure that Gershwin had no problems playing in any key.... it was = Irving Berlin who could only play using black keys and had the piano with a shift mechanism.   Sand (who likes to transpose just for the hell of it) >    
(back) Subject: Re: It's Irving Berlin's piano .. (was Transposing) From: "Kealypaul" <kealypaul@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:05:00 -0700 (PDT)   My bad ... I transposed the composer.   I like a Berlin tune, how about you?   Paul   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Job announcement--x-post From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:11:14 -0400   On 10/18/03 8:56 AM, "RMB10@aol.com" <RMB10@aol.com> wrote:   > The current musician tendered her resignation as of Dec. 21, but the = minister > told me that she did it just to have the Christmas music covered.   Certainly a nice thought. And very considerate of her. But then to leave just barely BEFORE Christmas?   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Job announcement--x-post From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:20:32 -0700   Er, um, Alan, most Methodists celebrate Christmas on Advent IV, at least in the South.   Cheers,   Bud   Alan Freed wrote:   > On 10/18/03 8:56 AM, "RMB10@aol.com" <RMB10@aol.com> wrote: > > The current musician tendered her resignation as of Dec. 21, but the > minister told me that she did it just to have the Christmas music > covered. > > > Certainly a nice thought. And very considerate of her. But then to > leave just barely BEFORE Christmas? > > Alan      
(back) Subject: A new job at Christmas? From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:31:24 -0400   On 10/18/03 2:20 PM, "quilisma@cox.net" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote:   > Er, um, Alan, most Methodists celebrate Christmas on Advent IV, at least = in > the South.   So then what do they do for Christmas? (I don't think they get drunk, do they?)   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: A new job at Christmas? From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:54:17 -0700   My mother's church never did ANYTHING ... no services Christmas Eve OR Christmas Day.   Cheers,   Bud   Alan Freed wrote:   > On 10/18/03 2:20 PM, "quilisma@cox.net" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote: > > >>Er, um, Alan, most Methodists celebrate Christmas on Advent IV, at least = in >>the South. > > > So then what do they do for Christmas? (I don't think they get drunk, = do > they?) > > Alan > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: A new job at Christmas? From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:56:21 EDT   When it comes to Lessons and Carols, synagogues and Shinto shrines tend to = do a poor job, so I stick with the Anglican churches during the Christmas season...  
(back) Subject: Re: A new job at Christmas? From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:06:57 -0700   ROFL!   No "O Channukah Bush, O Channukah Bush?" (grin)   Cheers,   Bud   TubaMagna@aol.com wrote:   > When it comes to Lessons and Carols, synagogues and Shinto shrines tend = to do > a poor job, so I stick with the Anglican churches during the Christmas > season...        
(back) Subject: AIO convention 03 From: "=3D?Windows-1252?B?QW5kculzIEf8bnRoZXI=3D?=3D" <agunther@cantv.net> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:39:58 -0400   Andres Gunther agunther@cantv.net   AIO convention 2003 Part 03   "Last day!", was the average remark on wednesday morning. A last look at = the exhibitor's stands- then to the second AIO annual membership meeting. Keeping in mind the average situation the figures in american pipe organ industry are good and leave space to optimism; but many things must be = done, not only at builder's but at musician's level too. I will come back about that, but first I'll conclude with my impressions.   At Mercer University I saw one of the loveliest and best crafted = neobarroque organs, and its builder Fritz Noack gave a lecture about how he managed to design a successful instrument for this really awful overdead accoustics.   Last station: Peachtree road UMC and its legendary Mander! With one of the largest tracker actions of the world it was a long awaited goal for us conventioneers. At the very beginning of the convention we got a = prospectus about the organ with valuable technical information. The organ itself is really overwhelming. The action "tunnel" from console to Division is = covered with acrylic so we could appreciate the details, and of course after the demonstration the organ soon was crowded with organ men standing in line = to get into the chambers. (I promise that next time I will bring rubber sole shoes! :) The trackers are extra-fine and lightweighted and specially engineered to ensure a minimum of friction points and and troubles due to prospective self- weight. This way the action is bearable altough I = wouldn't dare to use the mechanical couplers (the organ has both mech and = electrical couplers). But the action isn't the only worthy thing to see, of course. Having a = look into the organ I was reminded of what Mr. Kleuker told me 20 years ago: "Even less to non visible things in an organ always must be done in a = clean, elegant, aesthetic manner, up to the last detail. Because sooner or later another organ builder will arrive for a repair or inspection, and then = he'll judge you and your work by what he sees then".   At last, a group photograph was taken on the Chancel steps. Who has a = chance to look at this photograph will miss me, however - I was in the organ, engulfed in an ever fascinating world. I hardly catched the bus back to = the Hotel!   After the banquet which oficially closed the Convention we were delighted with a visit to "Mighty Mo" (Moller Opus 5566) at the Fox Theatre. This visit was scheduled off program, and I want to express a big "thanks" = again for that. What I heard about this theatre organ in the Lists wasn't understated indeed, and for me once again a new world opened. Theatre organist Larry Douglas gave us, not a demonstration but a recital on this instrument and answered all our questions with most kind attention (and we had *many* questions to ask!). We couldn't climb into the organ chambers ( -they are several stores high and quite dangerous-, but visited the = blower room, where the ancient electric installations still could be seen as showpiece. With its characteristic high wind pressures "Mighty Mo" is a = wind guzzler and needs a man-high blower.   Larry was very attentive with me after he was told how "far" I travelled = to join the convention (indeed it's only 4 flight hours from Caracas to Atlanta) and that I was having my first look at a Theatre Organ. He even gave me a ride on the console elevator, and signed "Sonic Bloom" (the record) I got thanks to Tim Boward's help. I have listened to this record already, of course- but my otherwise very satisfactory home Stereo equipment is too small for "Mighty Mo"! I must = use my headphone set plus my memory to recall the organ as it is. To = appreciate it as in the Theatre would demand a 1000W "Minitheque" equipment with sorround effect; even so I think it wouldn't be the 'real thing'...   (to be contd) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.    
(back) Subject: Re: A new job at Christmas? From: "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:26:00 -0400       Alan Freed wrote:   > > > So then what do they do for Christmas? (I don't think they get drunk, = do > they?) > > Alan >   Uhhh--I always do. Is this wrong? I thought everybody was required to. How = else are you gonna see Santa come down the chimney? Hey Tim, what's going on = here. It was you that gave me the advise.   So Confused Mike :-)    
(back) Subject: Re: A new job at Christmas? From: "leora holcomb" <leh637@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:55:41 -0700 (PDT)   Hi, Alan. Keith and I are doing wonderfully. By the way, I have a new = job, I guess for Halloween. I am again in a Baptist church. They seem to = have Advent and Christmas backward as most of them don't celebrate Advent, = but leave all the celebrations for Christmas. Lee   Alan Freed <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> wrote:On 10/18/03 2:20 PM, = "quilisma@cox.net" wrote:   > Er, um, Alan, most Methodists celebrate Christmas on Advent IV, at least = in > the South.   So then what do they do for Christmas? (I don't think they get drunk, do they?)   Alan   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org         --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search  
(back) Subject: RE: A new job at Christmas? From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:37:48 -0500   Bud is right - people are at home with family on Christmas Eve and Christmas in the South. There are very few services to be had.   These same people only drink behind the barn.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com (who as a child wondered where all the cheap whiskey bottles under the barn came from)   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of quilisma@cox.net   My mother's church never did ANYTHING ... no services Christmas Eve OR Christmas Day.   Cheers,   Bud   Alan Freed wrote:   > So then what do they do for Christmas? (I don't think they get drunk, do > they?) >