PipeChat Digest #4081 - Friday, October 31, 2003
 
RE: Gay Organist Fired Link
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
Re: Gay Organist Fired
  by "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
gay organists/clergy
  by "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net>
Re: Gay Organist Fired Link
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
RE: Gay Organist Fired  (Or was he?)
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
Re: Gay Organist Fired Link
  by "bnorth" <bnorth@intergate.ca>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Gay Organist Fired Link From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:17:06 -0600   I'm not saying that firing someone for their orientation is right, but = very few places have Right To Work laws, so the church could technically fire someone for parting his hair on the wrong side....they don't HAVE to even give a reason or notice, unless contractually bound.   The question I have, and it's gonna get the flamethrowers out, is whether this man announced to the church what his orientation is. If so, WHY? = It's illegal for employers of any kind to ask certain questions...I just don't see the need to volunteer information that has nothing to do with the job.   Just some random sleep-deprived thoughts...   Jeff   > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of > Alicia Zeilenga > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 12:56 PM > To: PipeChat > Subject: Re: Gay Organist Fired Link > > > I hope no one labels this as discrimination too quickly. I would most > likely be dismissed if I were to move in with a guy without marrying him > first. In my diocese that is just policy, although whether it is > enforced or not is another story. I haven't seen anything happen. > > Alicia Zeilenga > Sub-Dean AGO@UI > "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Oboe32@aol.com > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:50:13 EST > Subject: Gay Organist Fired Link > > > Sorry gang, forgot to include the link... tis been a long day teaching > > and > > playing! > > > > http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/902/902_ago.asp > > > > -Pete > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Gay Organist Fired From: "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:23:33 -0600   Hello, PipeChatters: John wrote: > God's judgment is one of the certainties of existence, > but it is quite another for US to presume to judge our > fellow human beings. Let him that is without sin cast > the first stone. Saint Paul beat us to casting the first stone. He was quite familiar with the stoning practices of his day, and he made it quite clear in the writing of the Letters that certain behaviors, ...not persons, were clearly out of step with the Kingdom of God. Before coming to the Lord's table for communion, we are admonished to examine ourselves. Therefore, let's take this course and judge sin where it is already declared to be sinful, and repent, as appropriate, each one of us for himself/herself before God while we are still in this world. Eternity will be here before most of us are ready for it, anyhow. F. Richard Burt Dorian Organs ..  
(back) Subject: gay organists/clergy From: "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:11:44 -0600 (CST)   It's going to be a tumultuous period, but I salute the brave souls who are opening the closet door of one of the biggest "secrets" in churches. Gay people have been leading the church for centuries and without anymore scandal than the hetros. If somebody doesn't beat me to it and when I can no longer work, I may write a book about life from "inside" the church. Maybe by that that time, it won't be an issue, but folks need to grow up. Most denominations profess that the Holy Spirit reveals truth continuously, yet balk when it challenges societal "norms". Christ himself challenged his society!   The understanding of sexuality and what the bible really says has surpassed what dear Thomas Aquinas could comprehend at his time. Compared to the problems of the world and church inadequacies, this appears no more than a smokescreen.    
(back) Subject: Re: Gay Organist Fired Link From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:15:24 EST   Jeff:   He did. It hasn't anything to do with or without the catholic church or a cardinal's letter. God made that decission well before the ten commandments and Moses. God destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because of the open practice thereof and later destroyed the world by flood except for Noah and his family because of the wickedness of mankind. This practice was never condoned by Christians. People were supposed to look the other way and keep their eyes on God and heavenly rewards and keep their own judgements to themselves. I chose to do like wise. The man left his job voluntarily he was not fired. If he had kept his mouth shut, he'd still have his job. I do think that this was a ploy to make a scene out of this and nothing = more.   We also must remember, we have young people on these organ lists, and adult subjects are really inappropriate. This one in particular.   Blame God if you dare, but leave the church out of it. I might also add that improprieties of a sexual nature whether by priests or lay people will result in permanent expulsion from the active ministry including music, teachers, and clergy. Don't go there and don't do it, or tell the world about it.Keep your mouth shuit and you will be much better off.   Ron    
(back) Subject: RE: Gay Organist Fired (Or was he?) From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:44:40 -0600     If he WASN'T fired, then this subject line needs to be changed, and some others have gone on a different direction with the same subject = line.....you might want to change said subject line or you risk your postings getting disregarded. I delete sometimes based just on the subject line alone.   Just a friendly reminder.   Jeff -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of RonSeverin@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 12:15 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Gay Organist Fired Link     Jeff:   He did. It hasn't anything to do with or without the catholic church or a cardinal's letter. God made that decission well before the ten commandments and Moses. God destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because of the open practice thereof and later destroyed the world by flood except for Noah and his family because of the wickedness of mankind. This practice was never condoned by Christians. People were supposed to look the other way and keep their eyes on God and heavenly rewards and keep their own judgements to themselves. I chose to do like wise. The man left his job voluntarily he was not fired. If he had kept his mouth shut, he'd still have his = job. I do think that this was a ploy to make a scene out of this and nothing more.   We also must remember, we have young people on these organ lists, and adult subjects are really inappropriate. This one in particular.   Blame God if you dare, but leave the church out of it. I might also add that improprieties of a sexual nature whether by priests or lay people will result in permanent expulsion from the active ministry including music, teachers, and clergy. Don't go there and don't do it, or tell the world about it.Keep your mouth shuit and you will be much better = off.   Ron    
(back) Subject: Re: Gay Organist Fired Link From: "bnorth" <bnorth@intergate.ca> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:09:01 -0800     ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RonSeverin@aol.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 10:15 PM Subject: Re: Gay Organist Fired Link     Jeff:   .Keep your mouth shuit and you will be much better off.   Ron   Isnt that what happened to the Jews in Germany in the late 1930's? = These are troubling times, where men and women of principle are = questioning. Its not a time for shouting, but for quiet words, to bring = us all together under His guidance.