PipeChat Digest #3964 - Sunday, September 14, 2003 Re: GOD doesn't care; *I* care by "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com> RE: here we go, yet again by "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com> Re: GOD doesn't care; *I* care by "Jonathan Orwig" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Pure Hammond - Mischief by "Adrianne Schutt" <email@example.com> Re: Pure Hammond - Mischief by <Gfc234@aol.com>
(back) Subject: Re: GOD doesn't care; *I* care From: "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 01:42:25 -0400 > (5) As I said earlier, no OTHER serious musicians play an electronic=20 > substitute=2E=20 > I don't see Rostropovitch playing an electronic 'cello=2E You also don't see the best organists in the world i=2Ee=2E Olivier Latry,= Daniel Roth, Naji Hakim=2E=2Eetc playing electric imitations=2E Original Message: ----------------- Wrom: QTIPWIGYOKSTTZRCLBDXRQBGJSNBOHMKHJYFMYXOEAI Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:41:02 -0700 To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: Re: GOD doesn't care; *I* care On Saturday, September 13, 2003, at 07:18 AM, quilisma@cox=2Enet wrote: > (1) Don't hide behind God=2E I doubt seriously that (S)He has an opinion= =20 > one way or the other=2E=2E=2E <snip> =2E=2E=2EIt's interesting how the=20= > pro-electronics crew always casts the pro-pipe-organ crew as godless=20 > pagans because we have *musical* STANDARDS=2E I don't think anyone has done this=2E Not one person here has said a pipe=20= organ isn't preferable to an electronic organ=2E It's not a matter of=20 being "pro-electronics=2E" It's a matter of appreciating the talent to be=20= able to play both instruments=2E Guess what? We all have standards, too=2E= =20 Know what my highest standard is? To play absolutely as well as I can=20 for the enjoyment and edification of those unfortunate enough to be=20 listening=2E Do you think any of them care what kind of organ is being=20 played? Of course not=2E They just know they like what they like, and all=20= of us attempt to deliver that every week=2E To have "musical STANDARDS" is perfectly fine=2E But when those standards=20= become self-serving and utterly irrelevant to the nature of worship,=20 they become pointless as well=2E > (5) As I said earlier, no OTHER serious musicians play an electronic=20 > substitute=2E > I don't see Rostropovitch playing an electronic 'cello=2E Apples and oranges=2E Rostropovitch isn't a church musician, at the mercy=20= of the kindness of parishioners to supply his salary=2E His living was/is=20= made through the sale of concert tickets, and maybe through the=20 revenues of a CD or two=2E (Certainly more than he would have made had he=20= remained in Russia since 1974=2E) He can afford any cello he wants,=20 because he chose a more lucrative career path -- a path that didn't=20 lead through church gigs=2E We all choose what we choose, and then we live with the consequences=2E=20= Any church organist who feels bitterness over low salary, miserable=20 benefits, poor instrument, etc has only himself or herself to blame=2E=20 The church offers whatever it feels is appropriate=2E If you don't like=20= it, then go somewhere else=2E The point being made by many of us is still=20= this: no church owes us anything=2E It's a privilege to be able to play=20= the organ at all -- not a right=2E Not a guarantee=2E If you want to be=20= treated like a king, instead of wanting to treat God like a king, then=20 you need a different career path=2E > If you want to see the pipe organ go EXTINCT, then keep right on=20 > shilling for your electronics and making excuses about why you're not=20= > willing to put out the EFFORT to EDUCATE people=2E Come on, Bud=2E Let's stick to the facts=2E The pipe organ isn't going=20 extinct=2E The only "shilling for electronics" here has been in support=20= of them to the point that they are simply all the church can afford=2E=20 Have you read the other contributions so far to this topic? Would you=20 really look Victoria in the eye and tell her that paint really doesn't=20 matter, and they ought to raise money for a pipe organ instead? Can you=20= really tell any of us that we're out of line for wanting to simply be=20 of service, as Jeff White so eloquently explained better than I? Is it=20 so wrong to find a delightful challenge to make an electronic organ=20 sound good, in the absence of a pipe organ? No=2E It is not=2E And to Alan Meagher, I would say this -- it's ironic, but all of my=20 "well-educated" organ background is what prepared me to be able to make=20= electronic organs sound pretty darn good=2E Along with education comes a=20= lot of wisdom, too=2E Or at least, it should=2E Friends, when we start getting into sentiments of "The church owes me=20 X," or "I DESERVE Y," we have suddenly missed the point entirely about=20 why we go to church every week in the first place=2E Eric -- I think that's quite enough for today "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www=2Epipechat=2Eorg List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat=2Eorg Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat=2Eorg -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E
(back) Subject: RE: here we go, yet again From: "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 02:14:45 -0400 Jeff, Pipe organs are expensive becuase they cannot be mass produced=2E They mu= st be specifically designed and each pipe built by hand to fit the space=2E=20= This obviously makes for many many hours of labor and thus a high price=2E= Andrew Original Message: ----------------- Wrom: DDJBLVLMHAALPTCXLYRWTQTIPWIGYOK Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 19:52:04 -0500 To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: RE: here we go, yet again > However, too often, I have seen large electronic specifications in small= > spaces because of organist fanatasies, and the money spent could have > bought a decent used pipe organ, or even a smaller but better grade of > electronic=2E I'm afraid that too many bad organs exist because organis= ts > don't know the difference=2E Oooh=2E=2E=2Ethis is a new angle on this discussion which is interesting=2E= Ok, let's pose this question=2E=2E=2EI'm curious about something=2E Suppose a= church has the desire to get a pipe organ (leaving electronics out)=2E Is there = any reason to not pursue a brand new instrument over a previously owned? Or, creating an instrument from a variety of used parts? Does this method len= d to saving money, or is it just as costly? And let's ask yet one more question, and Sebastian may have already answer= ed this once, but my 36-yr old memory doesn't always hold well=2E What makes= a new pipe organ so darned expensive?? Can't be the "computer" components o= f the combination action, relays, etc=2E=2E=2E=2Ethose prices are always fal= ling=2E Is it because of the customization work? Jeff "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www=2Epipechat=2Eorg List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat=2Eorg Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat=2Eorg -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E
(back) Subject: Re: GOD doesn't care; *I* care From: "Jonathan Orwig" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:22:36 -0700 uhhh... Bad example Seem to remember Naji HAKIM playing the Allen Cavaille-Coll clone at AGO National in Seattle... Might wanna check them facts <grin> ----- Original Message ----- From: <email@example.com> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 10:42 PM Subject: Re: GOD doesn't care; *I* care > (5) As I said earlier, no OTHER serious musicians play an electronic > substitute. > I don't see Rostropovitch playing an electronic 'cello. You also don't see the best organists in the world i.e. Olivier Latry, Daniel Roth, Naji Hakim..etc playing electric imitations. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 9/11/03
(back) Subject: Re: Pure Hammond - Mischief From: "Adrianne Schutt" <email@example.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 02:39:26 -0400 At 12:40 AM 14/09/2003 -0400, Gregory wrote IN MORE HTML: >Tell us...when did you last actually lay hands on one, and where???? >About 3 months ago in Chicago last time I heard Joey DeFrancesco. Ohhh...so you're the guy who invited himself up onstage and just touched the cabinet. Ok. > The Suzuki reps were there too...were less than friendly, and were > acting like mobsters-with cigars...the whole 9 yards. Hmm...so far, only one Chicago guy knew who you were, and that = was because you took sheet music to play the California Clipper. Have fwded your remarks on to Joey and the boys at HamSuz in case they have comments. = :) Have fun! Ad ;->
(back) Subject: Re: Pure Hammond - Mischief From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 04:29:07 EDT Maybe@pipcom, Joey DeFrancesco is a musical genius, a wizard, and I have nothing but respect, awe, and admiration for his playing. If i didn't, I wouldn't = spend 80 bucks for me and my gal to see him every time he came to Chicago. The = proof is in the pudding. No one can play it like him-and i see NO need to bother him, = or Hammond with this petty garbage. I would like to know why you are = getting so upset with my opinions, and making personal attacks? I don't even know = your name! I just like the old stuff, and gave reasons to validate my = opinions. Plus, the new ones are selling for more than 25 grand. You can buy a = really nice car, or make a down payment on a home for that kind of cash. Now I = don't know about you, but I can't think of many guys who could afford something = like that, especially in this economy. There isin't even enough work out there = for the most wonderful playing cats to pay their bills, and support their = modest lifestyles. It would take 2 or 3 years worth of high-paying (possible dictionary definition of an oxymoron) B3 gigs to pay for that. = Furthermore, the best high- bread gig in Chicago is at the Green Mill, which has one of Dan = Trudell's old B3's. By the time you finally paid it off, Hammond will = have developed an even better one. They are certainly on the right track, but = technology develops so fast these days that its impossible to win, especially when = the stakes are so high. What's the harm in saying that? I'm not trying to be nasty at all! This started as a friendly little = debate, just like all the other debates that take place on this list. = Unfortunately this one has gotten WAY too hot and emotional for me. Therefore, this = will be my final post on the subject. I sincerely hope no one has been offended. = I also hope you feel the same way. Please feel free to email me privately, = any time you wish, so that we can have a friendlier, more positive = correspondence, and maybe even come to some sort of agreement on this mess we have made. = May the waters calm. Hoping to resolve- Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile firstname.lastname@example.org p.s. I was like 17 years old when I played the California Clipper, and I got = the gig because I can sit down and play a big fat groove. And yes, we used books-which mostly contained arrangements, and original compositions which = the band leader wrote. And, on other occasions, I have actually sat and played the = new one for a period of time (without "sheet music").