PipeChat Digest #3967 - Sunday, September 14, 2003
 
Re: Small organs
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Trinity Church
  by "Stephen Best" <sbest@borg.com>
Re: digital instruments
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
The AGO's Function-long
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Krebs' Trios
  by "Ron Troop" <ronnymn@frontiernet.net>
Hammond organs.....real or Memorex?????
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Naji Hakim on Allen
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
Re: The AGO's Function-long
  by <Gardum@aol.com>
Re: The AGO's Function-long
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
tapered and double
  by "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br>
Brombaugh in Eugene, Ore.
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Out of the closet!
  by "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net>
Re: Remembering an AGO meeting
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Remembering an AGO meeting
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: digital instruments
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Small organs From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:40:45 -0700   I love Tournemire; I used to play a lot of Tournemire; MANY of the shorter pieces only require two manuals, and flutes-strings-celestes.   But let's take a look at that:   (1) L'Orgue Mystique was written for a particular form of the Tridentine Latin Mass:   (a) The organist improvised on the Introit to give the choir the pitch for the chant of the Introit.   (b) The organist improvised during the lengthy and complex ceremonies for the censing of the altar, sanctuary party, and congregation at the Offertory.   (c) The organist improvised the Elevation, which in practice lasted from the end of the singing of the Sanctus through the whole of the (silent) Canon (Prayer of Consecration), unless the Benedictus was sung after the Elevations.   (d) The organist improvised the Communion, which lasted from the end of the Agnus Dei until the post-communion prayer.   (e) The organist improvised a lengthy postlude, which amounted to a 15-20 minute organ recital between Masses.   (2)That liturgy no longer exists.   (3) The average French parish church (in Paris, at least) is HUGE in comparison with the average American parish church.   (4) The typical organ WAS a 3-4 manual Cavaille-Coll of 40 stops or more.   Now ... how does that translate to the average American Protestant parish church?   It doesn't.   The pieces of L'Orgue Mystique CAN be played as absolute music, without reference to the chant; but an American Protestant congregation would have no point of reference.   Conclusion: the average American parish church doesn't NEED an organ that will play all the pieces in L'Orgue Mystique.   NOTHING in Bach requires more than two manuals.   Yes, some of the big Franck is hard to manage on two manuals without a registrant, who has to constantly change the Great stops to simulate the presence of a Positif.   BUT ... the pieces in Franck's L'Organiste DON'T require three manuals. Neither do the harmonium pieces of Boellman, Dubois, etc. They DO require reading the preface to understand what PITCHES to draw to simulate the registers of the French harmonium.   I keep trying to make the point that the AVERAGE organist isn't going to play Tournemire, Franck Chorals, Widor Symphonies, etc., and MOST organists *are* AVERAGE organists who play in the AVERAGE Protestant church.   MOST small to medium-sized churches today ... Roman Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran AND Protestant ... require little beyond a principal chorus to lead hymns, a couple of softer stops to accompany the liturgy, soloists, cantors, anthems, etc., an Oboe for a solo stop, and THAT'S IT.   There is PLENTY of good music that can be played on two manuals, or even one manual, particularly with well-thought-out divided stops.   There's a DELIGHTFUL *new* one-manual Ott in Founders' Chapel at the (Roman Catholic) University of San Diego ... the disposition (as I recall it):   MANUAL - all stops divided at middle c   8' Principal - complete to low C 8' Gedeckt 4' Octave 4' Flute 2' Octave Mixture / Cornet - mixture in the bass, cornet in the treble 8' Oboe   PEDAL   16' Bourdon   The ONLY thing I'd wish for on that organ is an 8' flute in the Pedal, since if you're using the 4' flute down an octave in the manual bass, coupling it to the Pedal doesn't give an 8' sound.   What will that organ play?   Frescobaldi Muffat TItelouze de Grigny Bach most of the Preludes and Fugues the small version of Clavieruebung III the Pastorale many of the chorale preludes Couperin Haydn - the musical clock pieces Franck - the harmonium pieces Langlais - the harmonium pieces Tournemire - the harmonium pieces Most of the "Tallis to Wesley" series from OUP   There are REAMS of FUN 19th century and early 20th century American music "for pipe organ or harmonium" ... OHS is reprinting a lot of it; a lot is available from the Library of Congress.   Isn't that ENOUGH for the AVERAGE church organist???   OH, and it fills the rather large chapel quite handily for hymn-singing.   That organ, built as a series instrument (as Bedient, Bigelow, Juget, and others have done) could probably be had for around $100K.   And it would be FAR more satisfying to play than ANY, I repeat ANY electronic substitute. Its resources COULD be expanded by using the "either-or" stop system that makes the resources available on two manuals and pedal.   And last a LOT longer.   *I* would have a Manual Sub-Octave coupler, as Hook and Hastings used to build on some of their one-manual instruments, and maybe a Manual Forte / Manual Piano machine stop.   The same organ could be built with everything but the 8' principal enclosed in a swell box, as Hinners used to do, if THAT'S required.   Or, with "judicious unification" it could be built as a two-manual organ, thus:   RESOURCES   1 - 16' Bourdon/Gedeckt 2 - 8' Principal 3 - 4' Octave 4 - 4' Flute 5 - 2' Octave 6 - Mixture 7 - Cornet 8 - Oboe   MANUAL I   2 - 8' Principal 1 - 8' Gedeckt 3 - 4' Octave 4 - 4' Flute 5 - 2' Octave 1 - 2' Gedeckt 6 - Mixture 8 - 8' Oboe   MANUAL II   4 - 8' Flute (1-12 common with Gedeckt) 1 - 4' Gedeckt 2 - 4' Principal - 12 pipes 4 - 2' Flute - 12 pipes 3 - 2' Octave - 12 pipes 7 - Cornet 8 - Oboe   PEDAL   1 - 16' Bourdon - 12 pipes 3 - 8' Principal - 12 pipes 4 - 8' Flute - 1-12 common with Gedeckt 5 - 4' Chorale Bass - 12 pipes 1 - 4' Gedeckt 8 - 8' Oboe   "Small" only implies ONE THING: number of stops. An organ of that disposition, if scaled, voiced and PLACED properly, could fill a 500-seat church with NO problem.   Yes, it's a LOT easier to buy a plug-and-play electronic; it takes a certain amount of FORTITUDE to lead a congregation through a pipe organ project.   And it won't give "instant gratification."   But I'd rather WAIT for a REAL organ (grin).   Cheers,   Bud                   Walter Greenwood wrote:   > Figure $10,000 to $15,000 per rank, if you want it done well. Looks = like a very nice > little instrument, but I can think of a lot of music I can't play on it, = at least not as > intended by the composers thereof. A lot of literature demands three = manuals. A very few > pieces I have attempted have you playing on four simultaneously. = (Tournemire, if I > remember correctly.) > > -WG > > >><Rscottcopeland@aol.com> wrote: >> >>I'm greatly encouraged that the pipe vs digital debate hasn't yet got to = the >>usual slanging match which it usually does but I will throw this into = the >>ring, for what it's worth. There is an excellent little organ near me = with the >>following specification: >> >>...[spec removed for brevity] >> >>Now - there is nothing that in all honesty which can't be played on this >>organ. The Diapason and the Flute are enclosed in one chamber, and the = string and >>the trumpet in the other. There are only four ranks of pipes but the = organ >>sounds fantastic. >>How much would this cost to build today? >>Richard Scott-Copeland > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Trinity Church From: "Stephen Best" <sbest@borg.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:41:49 -0400   A friend forwarded the following two links about the Trinity Church situation. One's about the damage to the pipe organ, the other's about the electronic. I found both very interesting reading in light of list discussions.   Steve Best in Utica, NY     http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/news/alert_142.shtml   http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/news/article_255.shtml    
(back) Subject: Re: digital instruments From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:43:52 -0400   Steinway and Baldwin do not pay their artists a penny!   The artists, once they have been named "_____ artists" get the right to = pay for a "_______" piano to be delivered and pay for it to be tuned for their = concerts. They, the concert promoter or the hall PAY for the piano to be moved and = tuned. The piano is provided...   They do not pay rental on the piano for the concert.   That's it. That and the publicity value of being associated with a fine = piano.   Steinway DID pay artists to play at its concert hall near Luchow's on 14th =   Street, NYC and on tours when they were first open, as a way to get people = to play and hear their instruments.     People of ability who play digital instruments...and pipe instruments...in =   recital rarely play for free. It has nothing to do with beign pipe or = digital, but rather the financial interest the seller (pipe or digital) and the = buyer have in having the instrument heard by the public.   He who pays the piper...   noel jones          
(back) Subject: The AGO's Function-long From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:07:57 EDT   I recently sent an email to the AGO national headquarters concerning the = AGO placing a clause in its documents concerning compensation for Easter, Holy =   Week, Christmas, Christmas Eve etc.... services, so that part time = musicians aren't taken advantage of. I stated that most churches that employ part = time music directors and organists hardly EVER pay them for the holiday work, = and include it as part of their "contract". The problem with this is that = after a dir/organist, like me plays all of these extra services, he has spent at = least 50 hours preparing everything, rehearsing the choir, driving, playing etc. = Now, when you have a 10 hour per week job like me, that translates into 5 weeks = of work, for free. I don't know of any other profession that makes its = employees work for free, especially during the holidays. Do you? The pastor at my previous position responded by saying, "I have to do it too." What he = didn't say was that he was making 80+thosand per year, plus benefits for his wife and = 4 kids. I was making no benefits, 10, 500-minus taxes, minus gas-and am an organ major in college. How am I supposed to buy my family and friends = their gifts? How am I supposed to pay my mortgage? When you really think about = it, 2 or 3 thousand dollars more for the organist is peanuts to a well-off = church. But to an organist, its 3 months worth of bills-paid. Enough of my whining..I'm sure everyone gets the point, and has probably gotten, or is = being abused in the same manner-Basically, National responded by saying something to = the effect of, "Its a shame that so many churches take advantage of their = musicians, but we don't like to get involved with the church" That left me saying to =   myself, "Then what's the point?" What do these salary charts and = guidelines exist for? So that church committees can blatantly ignore them, and still = get music whenever they please?   I feel that it is our duty, as educated, respectable, responsible, professional citizens and organists, to stand up for our rights as = educated and professional people, with college degrees, and a PROFESSION that pays our = bills. I don't know about you, but I'm getting sick of playing for free on the holidays, especially when I hear about all my string and brass playing = friends, and SUBSTITUTE organists making 5 and 6 hundred dollars per service. = Shouldn't we, as the providers of music for every Sunday of the year be entitled to = wages on these family holidays too? Don't we deserve it, for our countless = hours of faithful practice, and performance every week?   Basically, I wish that our AGO membership dollars would actually go = towards enforcing these established guidelines, like a union would. We need to = form a united front, so that being a church musician in the AGO just doesn't mean =   getting a magazine each month, but that it means that we get salaries that = are in accordance to the salary chart, and that we are paid for our time during = the holidays. Would anyone consider drafting and signing a petition? We have = the power here to start a reform, so that we are no longer taken advantage of. = We deserve to be compensated for our time and expertise. Lets give it a = shot! Please let me know what you think of this letter. If I get enough = positive feedback, I may try to get it posted in the TAO, and in local chapter newsletters. Of course, revisions will have to be made. I am open for = suggestions.   Very sincerely,   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Krebs' Trios From: "Ron Troop" <ronnymn@frontiernet.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:09:15 -0500   Can anyone tell me if vol. 2 of the Peters edition of the Krebs organ = works contains the "Trios". I can find no place that lists the contents of vol. = 1 or vol 2, and it would be a $25 gamble. One of the more expensive = editions does specifcially mention the trios, but I believe it is around $45, so would prefer the Peters. Thanks. Also, and with no intent to "fan flames", but only because I recently purchased a new Rodgers, what are = some opinions on augmenting it with a rank of their pipes? I seem to remember that I have read some negative threads re: their pipes. Ron    
(back) Subject: Hammond organs.....real or Memorex????? From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:13:27 EDT   There has been some interesting discussion about the "new" digital = Hammonds vs. the "real" tonewheel models. I just want to add my few cents = worth.....   I grew up on several tonewheel models....my piano teacher had a C3 in her home and growing up, I had an A100 in my house. I have heard and played = the new digital ones, too. Maybe I'm just sentimental about growing up with a = "real" Hammond, but there is just something more authentic about the real sound. = It has a richness that the digitals can't simulate. Not to mention the = authentic key click and motor noise. The new ones just seem to be a mere shadow of = the real thing. To me, they seem cheap all the way around....from a fake = Leslie effect, to cheap feeling keys, to a simulated sound, to a cheap feeling = case. Let's be honest here....digital organs are mass produced so there is a = cost savings in the "guts" of the instrument. The manufacturers can make a = quick buck by scrimping on the consoles. They use cheap keys and lesser quality = wood, or even use particle board or laminates with a wood veneer because it's cheaper than using the real thing. The only mass-produced digital organ = console I've played lately that remotely compared to a pipe organ console was an = Allen, and we know price-wise they don't come cheap. Most of the other digital builders are cutting corners in the console department because they can = save money in production. I would guess that Hammond is no different. My guess = would be that the consoles are less sturdily contructed today than before more for profit margin reasons than for reasons of transportability. If I had my = druthers, I'd choose to play an old Hammond (a real tonewheel model) over the = digital ones being produced today by Suzuki for all the reasons above.   Monty Bennett    
(back) Subject: Naji Hakim on Allen From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:14:05 -0500   Hi! Actually, if you look at the Audio-Video catalog on the Allen website, you'll notice that Allen produces a CD of Naji playing the Allen Cavaille-Coll "replica" organ.     Blessings, Beau Surratt Minister of Worship and Music United Church of Hyde Park, Chicago Piano Instructor, Hyde Park Suzuki Institute Home Email: Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com Suzuki Email: beausurratt@hydeparksuzuki.com     -----Original Message----- From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 01:34:22 -0400 Subject: RE: GOD doesn't care; *I* care   > You and I think alike Bud. > > Andrew > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: quilisma@cox.net > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 07:18:49 -0700 > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Subject: GOD doesn't care; *I* care > > > (1) Don't hide behind God. I doubt seriously that (S)He has an opinion > one way or the other. > > It's interesting how the pro-electronics crew always casts the > pro-pipe-organ crew as godless pagans because we have *musical* > STANDARDS. > > Frankly, if I'm turning into a godless pagan, it's the CHURCH that's > the > cause, after fifty years of kicking me in the private parts. Most of > y'all know the saga of my last position, and it WILL be my LAST > position, whether or NOT I recover to the point that I can play again. > > (2) Look at the minister/priest/rabbi's salary and benefits package > > (3) Look at the organist's salary and benefits > > (4) Tell me why this church/temple can afford to pay in excess of $100K > in salary and benefits to the minister/priest/rabbi, $25K to the > organist (NO benefits, of COURSE), and "can't" afford a pipe organ. > > (5) As I said earlier, no OTHER serious musicians play an electronic > substitute. > > I don't see Rostropovitch playing an electronic 'cello. > > If you want to see the pipe organ go EXTINCT, then keep right on > shilling for your electronics and making excuses about why you're not > willing to put out the EFFORT to EDUCATE people. > > Bud > > > > > >>Right on bud! I wish more organists would refuse to play electrics. > Then > >>churches would have to get pipes or they wouldn't have an organist! > It > >>always astounds me the number of organists (some very well educated) > who > >>are willing to lower themselves to the level of playing an electric. > >> > >>Andrew > > > > Jeff White wrote: > > > Right, Andrew, so the people in those churches should not have > talented > > musicians to lead their worship because they didn't buy a pipe organ? > The > > CHURCH does not exist for the ORGAN...it's the other way around. > They > > "LOWER" themselves to lead people in worship. > > > > I personally thank God that there are those who see their ministry is > more > > important than the instrument. Let's not forget that it's the Church > who > is > > our primary employer. > > > > *sigh* > > > > Jeff > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: The AGO's Function-long From: <Gardum@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:22:26 EDT   And the churches rake in the big offerings on those holidays......    
(back) Subject: Re: The AGO's Function-long From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:27:59 -0700   HEAR! HEAR! Gregory! GO FOR IT!   I'LL SIGN, in BLOOD if it'll do any good (chuckle).   At St. Matt's, the rector made right around $100K per annum, plus perks. I made $34K, plus manipulating a FEW things (LEGALLY) so they were taken out and paid pre-tax, but NO perks.   He and the Vestry concluded that I was OVERPAID.   I've been agitating for a church musicians' union for DECADES; every time I bring it up, I get called a money-grubbing, cynical "union musician", or worse.   So be it.   "Do it for GOD," they say.   Right.   The Rector of St. Joseph's RC Cathedral in San Diego, sitting across from me behind his $10K fruitwood desk in his air-conditioned rectory, once offered me the "spiritual privilege" of being organist/choirmaster at the cathedral for the munificent sum of $5K per annum, no benefits ...   .... you know the drill: chain the organist to the console with a slop bucket handy so he can play a dozen Masses every weekend without having to use the restroom (!) ...   "Monsignor, San Diego Gas and Electric does NOT accept novenas or Rosaries in payment of my gas and electric bill.   Neither does Safeway.   Have a nice day."   Exit Bud, stage left.   Cheers,   Yr. Humble Servant (NOT!)   Gfc234@aol.com wrote:   > Basically, I wish that our AGO membership dollars would actually go > towards enforcing these established guidelines, like a union would. We > need to form a united front, so that being a church musician in the AGO > just doesn't mean getting a magazine each month, but that it means that > we get salaries that are in accordance to the salary chart, and that we > are paid for our time during the holidays. Would anyone consider > drafting and signing a petition? We have the power here to start a > reform, so that we are no longer taken advantage of. We deserve to be > compensated for our time and expertise. Lets give it a shot! Please > let me know what you think of this letter. If I get enough positive > feedback, I may try to get it posted in the TAO, and in local chapter > newsletters. Of course, revisions will have to be made. I am open for > suggestions. > > Very sincerely, > > Gregory Ceurvorst > M.M. Organ Performance Student > Northwestern University > Director of Music and Organist > St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL > 847.332.2788 home > 708.243.2549 mobile > gfc234@aol.com <http://gfc234@aol.com/>      
(back) Subject: tapered and double From: "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:24:30 -0300   Hi list,   Can someone explain me:   1) what is "tapered 8' trumpet" ? and 2) what means *double* in the text bellow:   "It is interesting to note that the presence of a Grosse Tierce on the GO does not seem to be dictated su much by the presence of a 16'Montre on the Grand Orgue as by that of the 8'Montre on the Positif. This indicates that certain characteristics of the Werkprinciple, which we have discussed with respect to North European design, were also present in the planning of French instruments of this period. At least there was clear concern that the octave relationship between the basic pitches of the two chief divisions be definitely established. If the Positif Montre was an 8', then the 16'of the Grand Orgue was considered to be the Montre and the big Tierce was included, but if the Positif had only a 4' Montre, the 16'of the Grand Orgue was considered as a *double*, the 8' being the basic foundation, and no Grosse Tierce was used in the tonal scheme. I Know of no exception to this" (Lawerence Phelps).   I Thank you very much. Domitila    
(back) Subject: Brombaugh in Eugene, Ore. From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:29:45 -0400   On 9/13/03 8:26 PM, "Eric McKirdy" <emckirdy@gladstone.uoregon.edu> wrote:   > I've played it -- the church is directly across the street from the U > of Oregon School of Music, where I hang my hat. It's an ornate, opulent > and tonally pleasing instrument, to say only the very least. The organ > is John Brombaugh's Opus 19. > Thank you, Eric. I'm very glad to hear that comment. The pastor there = when they bought it (Olaf Anderson) had previously been my pastor in Seattle, = in the late 1940s-earlly 50s.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Out of the closet! From: "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:59:45 -0500   Just getting a chance to catch up on old digests.   As a veterinarian I have trouble getting paid what I am worth as well. = Many folks think I should help their pets just because I love animals or = because "it's only a stray that I found" (most of my clients have pets that were once only a stray) and want me to do the work for free or complain that we charge too much. So you see, it is not just in your profession. If I = lived in a large city I could command better fees. I realized after awhile that if I continued to bemoan these facts that I would always be unhappy.   Also as an employer it is clear that I have X dollars to spend on salary = and benifits. It is a shell game. If I give benifits I will be paying less salary. It all comes out of one pot and there is only so much money = there. I choose to pay a higher wage and hopefully my employees are smart enough = to save some for retirement. I do not see it as my responsibility to manage their money. Same with health insurance. A large company can buy cheaper insurance but as a small company I could do no better on premiums than = they could on their own. My staff chose to get their insurance on their own = and get a pay raise instead. So don't kid yourself. The employee always pays for their health insurance one way or another. I pay them as much as I = can afford and if it is not enough they are free to find another job, there is nothing more I can do about it.   My church is a small Lutheran church. I am the superintendant of Sunday school and volunteer my time. We also had to let our secretary go in the interest of cutting expenses and some retired ladies volunteer their time for this. We also do not have a paid organist. Now if a church pays a secretary, youth leader, gardener, etc. then by all means they should be able to afford to pay an organist. There are not too many churches in = this part of the country that can do that except in the larger cities.   Bud, I am sorry that you have been through so much. I believe that you = are very talanted and professional and deserve to be well paid. But know that all pastors are not stupid and arrogant. Those I know are both Biblical scholars and nice people who are appreciative of those of us who help = them. But maybe it is this part of the country. <grin>   Amy    
(back) Subject: Re: Remembering an AGO meeting From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:48:50 -0400   On 9/13/03 8:37 PM, "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> wrote:   > Now with a 2003 Allen I would have no trouble at all believing that an = expert > could be fooled, but the organ in question is now 20 year old = technology.   Really? Based on a five-minute sample of ordinary literature? You know far, FAR better than I, so I'll believe you if you say, "Yes"; but I'll be = a bit surprised.   Alan (NO expert, but haven't been fooled yet--though I may be before Christmas--assuming a reasonable sample, and not just a few notes)    
(back) Subject: Re: Remembering an AGO meeting From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:54:53 EDT   Whether or not he knew it wasn't a real organ may really not be the = lesson. The fact remains that without knowing what it was, he did not like the = sound. His judgement, therefore, was aesthetic, and not based upon knowing that = it was not a real organ.  
(back) Subject: Re: digital instruments From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:17:04 -0400   On 9/13/03 11:25 PM, "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com> wrote:   > Personally, between these two, I can find no middle ground.   Larry. Neat post. I'm going to read it a few more times in the cool = light of dawn. Thank you.   Alan