PipeChat Digest #3971 - Monday, September 15, 2003 Re: The AGO's Function-long-holidays by <Gfc234@aol.com> RE: da beat goes on by "bobelms" <email@example.com> Re: GOD doesn't care; *I* care by "bobelms" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Out of the closet! by "bobelms" <email@example.com> RE: digital instruments by "bobelms" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Serious musicians and electronic devices by "bobelms" <email@example.com>
(back) Subject: Re: The AGO's Function-long-holidays From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:12:01 EDT In a message dated 9/14/2003 11:07:34 PM Central Daylight Time, firstname.lastname@example.org writes: We deserve to be compensated for our time and expertise. I guess the main point is that we should not have to reduce ourselves to begging, pleading, and trying to reason with our superiors to get these = basic provisions that the rest of the professional world receives. I've tried, = at more than one place, and in several interviews and auditions-the answer that = always comes up is,"We've never done that." So am I supposed to say "no" to a = job because of this? Am I not going to work? No, because all the places I've = checked at over the past 3 years have the same policy, and the same = answer. Do you think doctors, lawyers, business people, and blue collar workers would = work for free during the holidays? Do you even think that their employers = would put them in these situations? Why are we different? These things should = not be so negotiable-and if a rule was made, and stuck to, it wouldn't be this = way. The governing bodies of churches are made up of good, hard-working, and well-intentioned people, but most have never heard that this type of = compensation should be provided. If enough of us approached the AGO, even local = chapter officers, with this, just maybe we could get it changed. To start the = movement, at the chapter level, newsletters could go out to all organists, holy people, and parish administrative teams concerning this issue. That would = get people thinking, and lay the foundation for reform. It would set a new = benchmark, make a new national standard, and as a result, we would all feel much = better when we went to work during these holidays, and every Sunday for that = matter. This is not meant to be an attack on anyone, or any profession, or any = church. Its purpose is to raise awareness, and to raise the standard. Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile email@example.com
(back) Subject: RE: da beat goes on From: "bobelms" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:28:02 +0800 Well Bud, it seems your services are greatly different from ours. We have four hymns sung lustily by a congregation largely ex- Methodists, a choir singing traditional anthems, voluntaries before and after the service. The voluntaries come from a very wide range from Bach, Parry, Howells, Young, Purcell, Mendelssohn, and many others , modern and otherwise. There are two organists, me and a lady who has high qualifications in musical performance. Bud, besides my own church organ I play occasionally on two small organs here - one a beautiful little Hill of 1890, all quality but absolutely hopeless for accompanying the usual congregation in the church in question; It just cannot be heard. The other is a two manual Kirkland also of 1890 with Open diapason 8 and Stopped diapason 8 on great and Gamba 8 and Principal 4 on swell, Bordun 16 on pedal. It also is a nice sounding organ and seeing the church is tiny and the congregation only about 25 it is adequate for hymn singing, but when it comes to voluntaries it has to be limiting because of the lack of variety of stops. OK you can play Howells etc. on it but to what effect. A frustrated organist. And, Bud, village organists here DO play Messiaen and many other moderns as well as standard repertoire. Maybe your village congregations are missing something? I also play often for Saturday Mass at the Catholic Church. They have a fairly comprehensive Johannus. It sounds great and can handle most music. You'll have to excuse the sputtering, Bud. I have been a church organist for 70 years and I think in that time I have learnt a thing or two about organ repertoire and service playing. Bob >Bob sputtereth: >Dubois, Boellmann, TOurnemire and Dupre are modern??? They died a >generation or four ago! >Try Howells, Young, Lovelock, Messiaen, Hampton, Johnston, >Williamson, some by English Cathedral organists (plenty of them >around and still alive!!!) > >Bob > >Bob, with respect, you just don't get it. >Village organists don't PLAY Messiaen, Hampton, Williamson, at >least. >Howells' Psalm-Preludes CAN be played on a small organ. > >Um, I think after fifty years of playing, teaching, directing and >singing it, I have a FAIR idea of what's required to accompany the >Anglican choral repertoire (grin).
(back) Subject: Re: GOD doesn't care; *I* care From: "bobelms" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:33:56 +0800 How do you know this? Have you evidence from anywhere? Comment from either? It is easy to pour cold water on a name that doesn't suit your purpose Andrew. Bob. --- >Then strike his name form the list. Latry and Roth don't play >electrics >and they are probalby the two best in the world. Hakim is more of a >composer than an organist anyways. > >Andrew >
(back) Subject: Re: Out of the closet! From: "bobelms" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:38:22 +0800 Andrew, a visit to the vet here in West Oz costs me minumum $45. A visit to the doctor for me is $35, of which the Government Medical Benefit is about $25. Cost to me of a visit to doctor about $10. Last visit to the vet for my dog cost me $145. He had an Xray on a sore foot. Bob Elms. ---- Original Message ---- From: email@example.com To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Out of the closet! Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:10:28 -0400 >Amy, > >I always knew that Vets didn't get paid much. When you do a surgery >you >get a fraction of what a regular doctor gets for that same surgery. >I went >to a career orientation on Vets in high school and the lady said "if >you >want to make a lot of money odn't become a vet" I guess the same >could be >said for church musicians. > >Andrew > >Original Message: >----------------- >Wrom: CGPKYLEJGDGVCJVTLBXFGGMEPYOQKEDOT >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:59:45 -0500 >To: email@example.com >Subject: Re: Out of the closet! > > >Just getting a chance to catch up on old digests. > >As a veterinarian I have trouble getting paid what I am worth as >well. Many >folks think I should help their pets just because I love animals or >because >"it's only a stray that I found" (most of my clients have pets that >were >once only a stray) and want me to do the work for free or complain >that we >charge too much. So you see, it is not just in your profession. If >I lived >in a large city I could command better fees. I realized after >awhile that >if I continued to bemoan these facts that I would always be unhappy. > >Also as an employer it is clear that I have X dollars to spend on >salary and >benifits. It is a shell game. If I give benifits I will be paying >less >salary. It all comes out of one pot and there is only so much money >there. >I choose to pay a higher wage and hopefully my employees are smart >enough to >save some for retirement. I do not see it as my responsibility to >manage >their money. Same with health insurance. A large company can buy >cheaper >insurance but as a small company I could do no better on premiums >than they >could on their own. My staff chose to get their insurance on their >own and >get a pay raise instead. So don't kid yourself. The employee >always pays >for their health insurance one way or another. I pay them as much >as I can >afford and if it is not enough they are free to find another job, >there is >nothing more I can do about it. > >My church is a small Lutheran church. I am the superintendant of >Sunday >school and volunteer my time. We also had to let our secretary go >in the >interest of cutting expenses and some retired ladies volunteer their >time >for this. We also do not have a paid organist. Now if a church >pays a >secretary, youth leader, gardener, etc. then by all means they >should be >able to afford to pay an organist. There are not too many churches >in this >part of the country that can do that except in the larger cities. > >Bud, I am sorry that you have been through so much. I believe that >you are >very talanted and professional and deserve to be well paid. But >know that >all pastors are not stupid and arrogant. Those I know are both >Biblical >scholars and nice people who are appreciative of those of us who >help them. >But maybe it is this part of the country. <grin> > >Amy > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related >topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org >Administration: mailto:email@example.com >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web - Check your email from the web at >http://mail2web.com/ . > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related >topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:email@example.com >Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:email@example.com > > >
(back) Subject: RE: digital instruments From: "bobelms" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:41:48 +0800 OK Jeff. That is what I suspected. That worm takes the infected computer's address book and sends out mulitple messages to others in the book. I get the "unknown.unk" because my ISP has AV software in place which deletes the phony message. I have had a lot of these bogus messages here. Regards, Bob Elms. ---- Original Message ---- From: email@example.com To: firstname.lastname@example.org, Subject: RE: digital instruments Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:29:58 -0500 >This hasn't come from my computer, but likely from someone with my >address >in their book.
(back) Subject: Re: Serious musicians and electronic devices From: "bobelms" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:45:15 +0800 For once I agree Andrew!! Well done! Bob. ---- Original Message ---- From: firstname.lastname@example.org To: email@example.com Subject: Re: Serious musicians and electronic devices Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:46:28 -0400 >Walter, > >I played one at an AGO convention. Good intsrument as far as >electrics go >but still not the same as the real thing. > >Andrew > >Original Message: >----------------- >