PipeChat Digest #3975 - Monday, September 15, 2003
 
Saving Roosevelt Opus 408 (1890)
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Small organs
  by "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3972 - 09/15/03
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: Bringing the AGO plans to life.
  by "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
Re: Small Organs
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3973 - 09/15/03
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
Re: disheartening
  by "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
RE: don't discount OLDER Wicks organs
  by "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
Re: The AGO's Function-long
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re: Hammond organs.....real or Memorex?????
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: used pipe organs
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re: Geneology
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re: Pure Hammond - Mischief
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Naji Hakim (was: GOD doesn't care; *I* care)
  by "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
Re: Saving Roosevelt Opus 408 (1890)
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re: Saving Roosevelt Opus 408 (1890)
  by "David Evangelides" <davide@theatreorgans.com>
RE: disheartening
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
 

(back) Subject: Saving Roosevelt Opus 408 (1890) From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:09:17 EDT   Ladies and Gentlemen: To clarify the fate of Roosevelt opus 408 (with one rank originally = built for Opus 400 [The Chicago Auditorium Theatre]), I stopped discussing it = on the chatlists because so many people were enraged, called it junk, and = used it as a springboard to aver that nobody wanted it because electronics were superior. I was sickened and profoundly disappointed, so I dropped the = subject. That may be why Bud assumed that it had perished. It is truly not "saved" yet; it simply has been granted a stay of execution. Among the many emails I received was from the president of an organ company who said, "If it's so important to you, why don't YOU buy it?" = With no interest in historic preservation, they were obviously fed up with hearing = about it. So I DID buy it. It was appalling that I was forced to purchase it, even though the = church authorities were ALSO willing to let it go down with the building. "Buy it = or we'll destroy it" doesn't seem very spiritual to me. The pipework is exceptional, and is now safely in wooden crates and padded cartons. Basic scale measurements were taken during the removal = process, and pipemakers' marks and signatures were noted. The unmitered 16' Trombone = with wooden shallots, as well as the gargantuan Open Wood Diapason are all in = the same rented warehouse, for which I continue to pay. I am still stunned by = how my staff managed to do this, amidst acres of pigeon droppings, with no = running water, no electricity, no light, and blazing summer heat. Overtime on top = of NYC wages can be calculated, but that kind of understanding of the = significance of this instrument, and the gripping desire to save it, are things that I could not have purchased no matter how much I laid out. The organ is still available, but I was so stunned by the bitterness = and dismissiveness of people over this gem, that I have not attempted any = public offerings since then. Obviously, if it is not afforded a new home soon, I cannot continue to pour money into it, and will be forced to dispense with = it. I am sending photographs to a list member who I know is a fine, preservation-conscious organbuilder, but even with a serious client's ear, = such projects can move at a glacial pace. Keith Bigger, who tends to the Steere in the Baptist Temple in = Brooklyn, is the one who called my attention to this organ and its impending doom. = He put me in touch with the right people, and it was his insistent call to = "do the right thing" that got me over there to SEE it, rather than just saying, = "yeah, yeah." He even tried to find free or inexpensive storage space for it, putting us in touch with "people who knew people," but alas, when those = options ran into obstacles, we went with storage that was secure, insured, and = accessible, despite the cost. Keith also drove by the church several times per week to =   make sure that it still had a roof, was unburned, and was not being = slammed by a wrecking ball before I had the faith to do my part. Organs get saved and restored in a variety of ways. With $87,000,000,000.00 required for future bombs and battleships, the = government is not going to be granting funds for preserving our artistic heritage. Individuals, = working together, can do more than advocacy organizations, if they devote their = energy to constructive and nurturing projects, rather than to petty rumor, = positioning for power, or the quest for the quick, new, and average. For those on this list who are in the planning stages of a pipe organ project, or know of anybody who might be interested in saving this organ, = please let me know. As you may have surmised, I have no interest in making money = on this, otherwise, I would have sold it piecemeal from the church steps and washed my hands of the affair. I care little if my firm rebuilds it, or = another competent craftsman is selected, as long as this instrument is not = butchered, and is treated as the work of art it has been for the last 114 years.   With thanks, Sebastian M. Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: Re: Small organs From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:50:11 -0400   Richard,   I am music director at a church in a small town in northern NY and we have=   a 37 rank pipe organ that was just rebuilt last year=2E The church only g= ets about 100 people every week and is even in debt and STILL managed to put together the money and commitment to rebuild the pipe organ instead of buying an electric=2E My point is that if the people at the church are REA= LLY dedicated to having a good organ then it IS possible to find a way to afford pipes even if the church is in debt and is very small=2E   Andrew   Original Message: ----------------- From: F Richard Burt effarbee@verizon=2Enet Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:09:47 -0500 To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: Re: Small organs     Love your logic, Bud: =20 However, your assumptions are made within the context=20 of those who can afford, =2E=2E=2Eat some point in time and=20 space, to purchase the organ=2E =20 Where I live, more than 90 percent of the churches and=20 institutions where organ music is desirable will never,=20 =2E=2E=2Elet me say that again, NEVER spend that kind of=20 money on an organ=2E With such overwhelming odds against=20 a pipe organ, we have to offer some alternative or=20 abandon the lovely musical heritage that includes the=20 organ music of the past=2E =20 =2E=2E=2Ewhich is exactly what the Contemporary Christian=20 Music movement is all about=2E =20 For a church that has about 200 members, meets in a very=20 small building (often built by their grandfathers) and=20 supports an annual budget of about $200,000 (and many do=20 not give that much), holding out the hope for a pipe=20 organ is only a "pipe" dream=2E =20 =20 In very fact, I had the oppotunity to install a used=20 pipe organ at the little church where I was music=20 director in the late 1960s, and the men of the church=20 laughed me right out of their confidence=2E My only=20 request was that we build a chamber on the north side=20 of the building (to the right of the platform) where=20 the pipes of this seven-rank organ could be installed=2E =20 To quote one of them, "Dick, you are a dreamer=2E Get=20 real=2E" =20 Those of you who hold out for only a pipe organ may=20 have little reason to include the huge majority of=20 Christians who are in small or rural churches in your=20 thinking, for they also do not "employ" people to=20 play the organ=2E That is left to the best person in=20 the church that God has provided them with sufficient=20 skills to play the right notes at the right time=2E =20 For alternatives, I could provide a small church with=20 a fine digital organ (at MSRP) a 20-stop, one-manual=20 divided-keyboard organ for only $3995=2E00=2E A small=20 19-stop, two-manual would cost only about $9,950=2E00,=20 plus the cost of some external speakers=2E=20   Even at these prices, a musical instrument of this=20 cost is often unthinkable=2E   If I am feeling generous and willing to megotiate a=20 lesser price, a small church might be able to afford=20 one of my more economical instruments=2E We will never=20 know unless I can find some people who are willing=20 to consider spending the money; =2E=2E=2Ethat is the first=20 consideration, not whether they can have a spiritual=20 experience in worship (using the organ), for they have=20 been getting along with only a piano for decades=2E =20 F=2E Richard Burt =20 =20 =2E "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www=2Epipechat=2Eorg List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat=2Eorg Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat=2Eorg       -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E      
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3972 - 09/15/03 From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:50:44 +0100 (BST)   Ah Bud! I do hope somebody will play the Voluntary for decomposed Cornet at my Requiem Mass. John Foss   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topic of the week : A is for Arrogance   ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk  
(back) Subject: RE: Bringing the AGO plans to life. From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:52:14 -0400   Greg,   Could you send me the letter in it's final revised form=2E My undergrad teacher is Region II counsellor for AGO and I would like to show it to her= =2E   Andrew   Original Message: ----------------- From: Gfc234@aol=2Ecom Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:17:18 -0400 (EDT) To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: Bringing the AGO plans to life=2E     Musicians: I need people who agree with my post, who are willing to sign a note, or t= o=20 help create a final draft of the letter, or distribute it to their local AGO=20 chapters, to please send me a private email=2E Simply say YES in the body= of the=20 email-and also specify in which area you would like to help=2E If you wan= t to=20 elaborate, feel free to do so=2E I have already sent notes to some AGO people in=20 Chicago, and have just begun my work=2E The more support we have, the mor= e=20 powerful the results will be=2E Maybe we could get an advocate from each region,=20 great lakes, NYC etc=2E=2E=2E=2E For example, I will be the Chicago regio= n advocate=2E =20 Catch my drift? All you have to do is pass the word around to your=20 colleagues and distribute the final draft of the letter to your region/chapter=2E I am=20 going to attempt to get it put in the TAO-eventually Please help to make a difference=2E We have nothing to lose, but a lot to=   gain=2E Thanks in advance,=20   Gregory Ceurvorst M=2EM=2E Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St=2E Peter's U=2EC=2EC=2E Frankfort, IL 847=2E332=2E2788 home 708=2E243=2E2549 mobile gfc234@aol=2Ecom     -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E      
(back) Subject: Re: Small Organs From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:08:52 -0400   On 9/15/03 10:01 AM, "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> wrote:   > Anyhow this topic has now been drained to the last dreg. My last > comment. (Who said "Hooray!"?)   Bob: Not I. The whole exchange, both the "give" and the "take," has been very instructive to me. And I appreciated (I think) every post on the subject.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3973 - 09/15/03 From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:10:11 -0500   Yes, thank God for the Unitarians. We will take all honest seekers, = agnistics, atheists, etc. but please do not put us in the category of the non = religious. After all this is the church of many outstanding saints from the past, including the brothers Hook, who built one of their finest for their home church, the Unitarian church in Jamaica Plain., Mas. Roy Redman   Walter Greenwood wrote:   > Or just get a job at a Unitarian church. ;-) > > ducking low, > WG > > Arie wrote: > >Hi, > ... > >If you are an agnostic, atheist, or non-religious, maybe should setup = some > > >kind of organization, club or whatever, and do whatever pleases you, = and > do > >it to the glory of yourselves. > > > >Just my thoughts............ > > > >Arie V. > http://www.nauticom.net > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: disheartening From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:14:31 -0400   Jon and Bud,   I'm with ya all the way!   Andrew   Original Message: ----------------- From: jch opus1100@catoe=2Eorg Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:11:21 -0500 To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: Re: disheartening     At 06:57 AM 9/15/03 -0700, you wrote:   Very good response and I heartily agree with your comments=2E I was getti= ng=20 really tired of getting pelted with these endless posts about =2E=2E=2E"Go= lly, we=20 got to roll over 'cuz this is the best we can get"=2E=2E=2Eyou said it=20 guy=2E=2E=2EWHERE THERE'S A WILL=2E=2E=2ETHERE'S A WAY=2E=2E=2E   regards,   Jon   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www=2Epipechat=2Eorg List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat=2Eorg Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat=2Eorg       -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E      
(back) Subject: RE: don't discount OLDER Wicks organs From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:16:37 -0400   Bud,   The Wicks I play is from the 50's and there are some great stops but most are unevenly voiced=2E   Andrew   Original Message: ----------------- From: quilisma@cox=2Enet Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:29:32 -0700 To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: don't discount OLDER Wicks organs     I played a SUPERB little Wicks from the 1950s in a VERY reverberant=20 Presbyterian (!) church in Lakeland, FL=2E   The stoplist:   SWELL (enclosed)   16' Quintadena - actually an all-purpose somewhat quinty Chimney Flute 8' Quintadena - 12 pipes 8' Salicional 8' Vox Celeste 4' Flute - 12 pipes 2 2/3 Nazard - derived 2' Flute - 12 pipes 8' Trompette 4' Clarion - 12 pipes   GREAT (enclosed, separate box and chest)   8' Open Diapason 8' Melodia 8' Dulciana 4' Octave - independent 4' Flute - 12 pipes 4' Dulciana - 12 pipes 2 2/3' Dulciana - derived 2' Fifteenth - independent 2' Dulciana - 12 pipes 1 3/5' Dulciana - derived Mixture III - derived, I think   PEDAL   16' Bourdon 16' Quintadena (sw) 8' Octave (gt) 8' Flute - (bourdon) - 12 pipes 4' Octave (gt) 4' Flute - (bourdon) - 12 pipes 16' Trombone - 12 pipes (sw) 8' Trompette - (sw) 4' Clarion (sw)   There wasn't MUCH that little organ COULDN'T play =2E=2E=2E the decomposed= =20 Dolce Cornet on the Great was a TREASURE =2E=2E=2E together, it made a=20 wonderful cantus firmus stop; individually, it could color the 8'=20 Melodia several different ways=2E   I could have wished for a Swell Oboe or a Great Clarinet; the Trompette=20=   was QUITE fiery, for the 1950s; but all in all the organ WORKED=2E   Cheers,   Bud     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www=2Epipechat=2Eorg List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat=2Eorg Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat=2Eorg       -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E      
(back) Subject: Re: The AGO's Function-long From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:20:09 -0400   Amen, brother. There's something we can agree upon. If we got paid for practicing, we'd all be full-time employees, eh?   -WG   > "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> wrote: > > Dale, > > Just out of curiosity, what is your "real" job? It's a shame that = churches > won't pay organists enough so that they don't have to have another = "real" > job and have music be their "real" job. > > Andrew    
(back) Subject: Re: Hammond organs.....real or Memorex????? From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:25:21 EDT   In a message dated 9/15/2003 3:10:06 PM Central Daylight Time, ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com writes: That means dead organs are now supplying parts to keep others going. I suppose you could say that Hammond should keep on supplying parts, but I = am told that the cost of doing that is prohibitive. What you hear about Hammonds biting the dust simply isin't true. You put = a few drops of oil in them once a year, and call a service tech to address = major problems-they are virtually problem free. As far as parts no longer being =   availabe, that is not true either. If anyone needs the name of a master = b3 tech, let me know privately.   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Re: used pipe organs From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:28:08 -0400   Bud, you are a genius after all. This would work great for my church, 'cause as everyone knows, wherever 4 Methodists are gathered together you can always find a fifth. I just might start guzzling with the choir = after rehearsals, hat in hand. (sideways grin) How about financing the organ with a congregational sin tax?       -WG   > <quilisma@cox.net> wrote: > > We passed the hat in the local pubs on Mt. Adams every Saturday night to > raise the money (grin). > > Like I said, "where there's a will, there's a way" ... drunks are > PARTICULARLY generous after midnight (chuckle). > > Cheers, > > Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: Geneology From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:29:04 -0400   Do you mean AGFA?     > "MARAUDER" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> > > Related to this: > > Descendants of Mendelssohn ran the Afka firm in Germany which makes > camera film. > > One of Mendelssohn's descendants came to America and taught at , if I > recall correctly, Bryn Mawr College. > > Karl E. Moyer > Lancaster PA    
(back) Subject: Re: Pure Hammond - Mischief From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:18:05 EDT   In a message dated 9/15/2003 3:10:51 PM Central Daylight Time, ray_ahrens@msn.com writes: Please take this catfight somewhere else! Mr. Ahern, The conclusion of my post stated that it was my FINAL post on the subject. But thanks for your concern.   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Naji Hakim (was: GOD doesn't care; *I* care) From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:30:03 -0400   Tommy,   I was at that recital and Masterclass too=2E Both were excellent=2E I si= mply meant to strike him from the list because he isn't a good example to support my argument, not becuase I don't respect his musicianship=2E   Andrew   Original Message: ----------------- From: TommyLee Whitlock tommylee@whitlock=2Eorg Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:32:23 -0400 To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: Re: Naji Hakim (was: GOD doesn't care; *I* care)     > Then strike his name form the list=2E Latry and Roth don't play electri= cs > and they are probalby the two best in the world=2E Hakim is more of a > composer than an organist anyways=2E   Hmmm=2E Check Naji Hakim's biographies=2E For example, at this web site:=   http://www=2Eump=2Eco=2Euk/hakim=2Ehtm   A short quote from the site: He was organist of the Basilique du Sacr=E9-Coeur, Paris=20 from 1985 until 1993, when he succeeded Olivier Messiaen at=20 the Eglise de la Trinit=E9=2E A player of exceptional virtuosity,=20 he is much in demand as a recitalist, improviser and teacher,=20 with engagements for concerts and masterclasses taking him all=20 over the world=2E=20   I had the privilege of hearing him perform at the Region III AGO Conventio= n this year, and attended his master class=2E His easy, gallic wit charmed = the entire group and his performance was stellar=2E =20 Judging from the number of organ competions that he's won and the prestigeous posts he's held, I think he's earned his reputation as an organist=2E And while he is billed now as an organist/composer/improviser= , it seems a bit cavalier to dismiss him as an organist=2E =20   TommyLee Whitlock Reston, VA =20     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www=2Epipechat=2Eorg List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat=2Eorg Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat=2Eorg       -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E      
(back) Subject: Re: Saving Roosevelt Opus 408 (1890) From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:33:31 -0400   Congratulations and good luck, Sebastian. If you can post (or repost) = more information on the specifics of the organ perhaps that would help in finding it a good = home.   -WG   > <TubaMagna@aol.com> > > Ladies and Gentlemen: > To clarify the fate of Roosevelt opus 408 ... > > With thanks, > Sebastian M. Gluck > New York City    
(back) Subject: Re: Saving Roosevelt Opus 408 (1890) From: "David Evangelides" <davide@theatreorgans.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:32:54 -0500   Dear Sebastian,   I noticed your acquaintance with Keith Bigger. He was one who salvaged at lease one division of the previous pipe organ at Calvary Baptist, NYC around 1966. Do you have his contact information, or can you pass my contact info onto him? It would be good to keep in touch for old time's sake.   Private E-Mails OK: devangelides@usa.ibs.org   David E   David Evangelides International Bible Society Colorado Springs, Colorado     -----Original Message----- From: TubaMagna@aol.com To: pipechat@pipechat.org Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:09:17 EDT Subject: Saving Roosevelt Opus 408 (1890)   > Keith Bigger, who tends to the Steere in the Baptist Temple in > Brooklyn, > is the one who called my attention to this organ and its impending > doom. He > put me in touch with the right people, and it was his insistent call to > "do the > right thing" that got me over there to SEE it, rather than just saying, > "yeah, > yeah." He even tried to find free or inexpensive storage space for it, > putting us in touch with "people who knew people," but alas, when those > options ran > into obstacles, we went with storage that was secure, insured, and > accessible, > despite the cost. Keith also drove by the church several times per week > to > make sure that it still had a roof, was unburned, and was not being > slammed by a > wrecking ball before I had the faith to do my part.      
(back) Subject: RE: disheartening From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:34:22 -0400   Bud,   I agree with most of what you say, but fortunately I have never been in = the position of "spearheading" a campaign for a new pipe organ. You = have been, and apparently were successful there, and I admire that = greatly, even if it happened in an unusually affluent area; but not = everyone has the necessary charisma, personality, chutzpah, whatever it = takes. I doubt that I could bring it off. In any case, it's largely a = matter of getting *large amounts* of money out of certain other people, = and then small-to-moderate amounts, perhaps widows' mites, out of a = substantial number of others. No way could the musicians pay for such a = dream themselves.=20   All I can say for myself is that when one church for whom I was working = was planning a new building and, in a presentation to the congregation, = the architect cooly explained, without having asked anyone AFAIK, that = "the type of organ planned is electronic", I publicly hit the roof. I = pointed out that many churches have come to want a pipe organ so much = that they have bent over backwards to squeeze it into inadequate or even = ridiculous sites, sometimes at considerable additional expense and often = with pathetic compromise to the results, simply because no one had had = the modicum of foresight and guts to allocate proper space for one when = their building was being planned. I asked must history repeat itself? = Must we hamstring the next generation here, so that they must sadly = renounce getting the pipe organ that they want because it is precluded = by the design of the building? A few people cheered and applauded, and = the architects went back to the drawing board and made changes that I = doubt they would have made if I hadn't spoken up. Not only did they get = their space for a pipe organ; whadya know, within another year they got = a pipe organ, used from another church. I did good, no? But I don't = imagine that it is always as easy as that.   > One Episcopal Church is still served by a VERY robust 2m/ped=20 Estey REED organ, which has been passed down from church to church over=20 the years as new missions are started.   > I did something similar for the Vicar of a mission in Alpine, CA, who=20 was determined NOT to have an electronic. I found him a very nice 2m/ped =   Vocalion reed organ. Unfortunately a change in Vicars some years later=20 consigned the Vocalion to a museum housed in a former church, replaced=20 by a used Conn theatre "organ" (!). The Vocalion is still in regular use =   for weddings.   I'll never say that an electronic is musically preferable to a pipe = organ. If I ever encourage a church to replace a pipe organ with an = electronic, or to buy more than a minimal electronic as a functional, = stopgap measure, may God have mercy on my soul. But I'd say without = hesitation that a *modern* electronic-imitation is preferable to a = reed-imitation. So I ask again: what do we contemplate for those = churches that would have bought reed organs 100-150 years ago?