PipeChat Digest #3982 - Wednesday, September 17, 2003
 
Re: expense of pipe organs
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: expense of pipe organs
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Reed ranks
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Flue/Reeds
  by "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net>
My two cents
  by "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net>
Re: disheartening
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Random thoughs
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: enough is enough
  by <MFoxy9795@aol.com>
RE: enough is enough
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
THEATREORGANS-L QUESTION (X POST)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
God's House?
  by "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net>
Organist/Investor needed for convention in Nigeria. (off topic humour)
  by "Nelson Denton" <ndenton@cogeco.ca>
What is non-equal temperament?
  by "Fran Walker" <fwalker@northwestern.edu>
RE: expense of pipe organs
  by "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
RE: Random thoughs
  by "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
RE: Random thoughs
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
Re: professional church musicians
  by "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
RE: Roger Wagner's Wicks
  by "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
to David Scribner/administrator
  by "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
RE: to David Scribner/administrator
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
RE: to David Scribner/administrator
  by "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
Re: expense of pipe organs
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: to David Scribner/administrator
  by "Eric McKirdy" <emckirdy@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
 

(back) Subject: Re: expense of pipe organs From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:31:20 EDT   In a message dated 9/16/2003 3:40:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, walterg@nauticom.net writes:   > Dale, I'm not sure what I missed, but what's the deal with saucers of = milk? > Is it an inside joke or am I just dense? I have cats, but they eat the > livers out of shrews they catch themselves. >   the reference is to get out the milk because the cats claws could be on = the way as we get into a cat fight again... meant to be funny but not to be an inside joke unless of course the cat is =   declawed and cant go outside. That however is something else all = together.   LOL   dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Re: expense of pipe organs From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:35:34 EDT   In a message dated 9/16/2003 4:00:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, mike6514@hotmail.com writes:   > shopping mall. She would demonstrate that thing by playing with two > pencils. > COOL! >   Ancient of years ago I could play a Lowrey teenie genie from behind it leaning over it ---see Mrs. Smith i can -play it backwards. think what = little Johnny and the whole family will do with it when you get it home.   Made a lot of money then and got to work in big churches regardless of = what they were paying so I have contributed to the mess we are all in these = days.   My humble apologies to one and all.     dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Reed ranks From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:41:19 -0500   I own a (said to be) Wangerin Tuba rank that has doubled flue pipes for = the top octave--i.e., each note has two speaking pipes, presumably not only = for greater volume, but for richer harmonics.   I have no idea if this was common with Wangerin or any builder.   Dennis Steckley & A Six-Pack of Cats    
(back) Subject: Flue/Reeds From: "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:52:05 -0400   Hello Chatters,   With respect to the conversation concerning reed stops using flues = in the trebles, from a tuning perspective they sound very convincing to = me. They seem to be equal in volume and I would guess that the flues = are voiced somewhat coarse to match the reedy tone because the timbre is = convincing as well.   = -Nate = "The Apprentice"  
(back) Subject: My two cents From: "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:31:29 -0400   Good evening Chatters,   I would just like to say that it is a absolute honor and blessing to work with pipe organs every day.   = -Nate   "The Apprentice"      
(back) Subject: Re: disheartening From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:38:52 -0500   It helps a lot if you are an organ company with an architect on your staff as we have (two actually). They can talk to the architect on their own terms and suggest in the nicest possible way that they don't know what = they are doing <g>   John Speller   ----- Original Message ----- From: <ameagher@stny.rr.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 12:30 AM Subject: RE: disheartening     Paul,   Since when is what type of organ to get the architect's decision? That architect way overstepped his/her bounds and took control over decisions that are not his/her place and that he/she is unqualified to make. He/she should have come to you, because you have the proper expertise THEY do = not!      
(back) Subject: Re: Random thoughs From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:41:36 -0500   > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of David > Baker > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 7:50 PM > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Subject: Random thoughs   > Re: tuning problem. As Roy Redman says or implies, no one builds reed > stops that are reeds all the way to the top; it probably isn't > possible.   I have seen Casavant organs from the 1920's where the reeds are carried = all the way to the top with phosophor-bronze tongues. I don't know of anyone doing it since then.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: enough is enough From: <MFoxy9795@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:14:37 -0400   In a message dated 9/16/2003 10:48:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, = conwayb@sympatico.ca writes:   > it is my view that in the majority > of churches their simply isn't the money available. I have always held = the > view that although ideals are all well and good, the bottom line is = whether > the church can afford these expenses, - in my view, most of > them cannot.   I don't understand why they have to draw the line right at the music = budget. The great majority of churches seem to be well able to support = their clergy at a high standard, house them, and keep the physical plant = and many other programs going and pay salaries for a multitude of = assistants, secretaries, and so on. The difference between keeping the = musician in penury or keeping them at a reasonable standard is probably a = negligible amount in the context of the whole church budget. Merry Foxworth   =B4=A8=A8)) -:=A6:- =B8.=B7=B4 .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4 ..=B7=B4 -:=A6:-   An excerpt from Robert Giddings "Musical Quotes and Anecdotes", published in Longman Pocket Companions: "There let the pealing organ blow, To the full-voiced choir below, In service high, and anthems clear, As may with sweetness, through mine ear, Dissolve me into ecstasies, And bring all Heav'n before mine eyes". John Milton - Il Penseroso (1632).   Open Door Realty Boston, MA 02131 617 469-4888 x207 877 865-1703 toll free http://www.opendoorrlty.com/  
(back) Subject: RE: enough is enough From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:25:38 -0500   I'm very sorry to hear of all this - apparently things got nasty after I signed off last night on IRC. I hate to lose Bud and Zamboni - they are good and fun contributors.   I've not gone through all today's mail yet to catch up with what's happening. However, the moon is on the wane - can we not return to peace and camaraderie? I can't think of any subject we discuss on this list that should generate this level of acrimony.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: THEATREORGANS-L QUESTION (X POST) From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:51:56 EDT   Is theatreorgan-L down or is it malfunctioning? I have not received any emails in weeks nor can I even send a test message. Does anyone know = what's wrong? Does anyone have a moderator's email address I can write to to = find out about this?   Your assistance will be greatly appreciated, thanks.   Scott F. Foppiano Cantantibus organis Caecilia Domino decantabat.    
(back) Subject: God's House? From: "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:21:28 -0500 (CDT)   Arie, I think you've confused the heavenly house with the ones humans have created in their OWN image, the human institution called organized religion.   Despite all world religions having inspiring stories of creation, of virgin births, of how to treat each other, we humans always get in the way...maybe except for groups such as native American Indians or the Quakers...I'm not aware of them having started religious wars.   My work is always for the glory of God, never for the glory of the institution. And I'd prefer a church musician who is an aetheist yet produces music of beauty & "soul" over the many so-called Christian people who produce the mediocrity that prevent me from worshipping in the "beauty of holiness".    
(back) Subject: Organist/Investor needed for convention in Nigeria. (off topic humour) From: "Nelson Denton" <ndenton@cogeco.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:35:45 -0400   I'm sure someone here would like de job as a guest organist at the 3rd Annual Nigerian EMail Conference banquet Nov 7-9 2003   http://j-walk.com/other/conf/index.htm   I'm sure we would welcome you like the brother you was/could be/wannabee = of our poor dead president who left you so Many millions of Dollers TAX FREE. Imagine thee things you could due with your share of the proceedings. 10% guearenteed return on you money invested. The rest you will never see. We promise.   +(;-P)))   Nelson (I just couldn't pass this one up folks!!)     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01-Sep-03    
(back) Subject: What is non-equal temperament? From: "Fran Walker" <fwalker@northwestern.edu> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:26:34 -0700   OK, I've been advised that the organ (Wilhelm Tracker) at St. Athanasius church in Evanston, IL is *not mean tone temperament but is "a non-equal temperament" - what does this mean?   Fran Walker (fwalker@northwestern.edu) Organist, North Shore United Methodist Glencoe, IL 847-835-1227 http://www.gbgm-umc.org/northshoreumc/    
(back) Subject: RE: expense of pipe organs From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:03:07 -0400   I agree=2E The example that gets me is St=2E Agnes Cathedral in Rockville=   Center, NY=2E That organ is 100+ ranks (Wicks built it) and is half electric and the thing cot them $1,000,000! I personally think that is absurd for an organ that is half electric=2E You could get 100 ranks of pipes for that price=2E   Andrew Original Message: ----------------- From: Terrick@webtv=2Enet (terry hicks) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:04:19 -0500 (CDT) To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: expense of pipe organs     Pipe organs may be expensive, but unless things have changed, I believe the profit margine is extremely low in comparison to what most of the the world thinks is profitable=2E =20   For instance, friends of mine who are familiar with the electronic/computer industry tell me that mark-up is extremely high=2E=2E=2E=2Ethat electronic organs could be sold much cheaper=2E   Comments from organ builders?   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www=2Epipechat=2Eorg List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat=2Eorg Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat=2Eorg       -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E      
(back) Subject: RE: Random thoughs From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:09:31 -0400   I thought that wasn't always the case Andrew=2E When you end with flu pip= es it has to change the tamber and make the voicing uneven, so it's got to be=   better to have all reeds if possible=2E   Andrew   Original Message: ----------------- Wrom: HYUCDDJBLVLMHAALPTCXLYRWT Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:14:57 -0400 To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: RE: Random thoughs         -----Original Message----- Wrom: QTIPWIGYOKSTTZRCLBDXRQBGJSNBOHMKHJYFMYXOEAIJJPHSCRTNHGSWZIDREXCAXZOW= CO Baker Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 7:50 PM To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: Random thoughs   You wrote:   Re: tuning problem=2E As Roy Redman says or implies, no one builds reed stops that are reeds all the way to the top; it probably isn't possible=2E Call your tuner; with pipes that small, permanent damage can happen in an instant if you're not careful=2E Bigger pipes take longer to ruin=2E I respond: "No one builds reed stops that are reeds al the way to the top"? What abou= t 16' reeds? Most 8'displayed horizontal reeds I've tuned had 61 reeds=2E I'= ve come across (2) 8 'trumpets on my tuning duties that were normal except th= at the reed portion was unexplainably 61 note compass=2E (I was not miscounti= ng the supers above either)=2E I agree most 8' reeds usually revert to flue p= ipes at g#57, but not all=2E So, it is possible to make reeds at 8' pitch of 61=   note compass=2E I've seen it=2E Is there a discernable difference between = the two at that pitch? Not much, I think=2E Not trying to be disagreeable, just nit picking (my favourite activity)=2E=   Andrew Mead     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www=2Epipechat=2Eorg List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat=2Eorg Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat=2Eorg       -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E      
(back) Subject: RE: Random thoughs From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:26:16 -0500   Actually, this is not uncommon from the organs I've crawled into. At = those pitches, you really can't tell reed from flue. I would challenge anyone = to distinguish them. The timbre isn't affected all that much.   My two cents....from experience. Jeff   > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of > ameagher@stny.rr.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:10 PM > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Subject: RE: Random thoughs > > > I thought that wasn't always the case Andrew. When you end with flu = pipes > it has to change the tamber and make the voicing uneven, so it's got to = be > better to have all reeds if possible. > > Andrew >    
(back) Subject: Re: professional church musicians From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:19:41 -0400   Bud,   You should report their violations of the building codes and FORCE them to=   deal with it=2E Don't go away too easy=2E Make them suffer a bit for the= way they treated you!   Andrew   Original Message: ----------------- Wrom: JJPHSCRTNHGSWZIDR Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:53:36 -0700 To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: Re: professional church musicians     No, it was the Newport Beach story=2E It all happened so fast I'm still=20=   not sure WHAT the story was (grin), but as I said, I was basically=20 presented with the choices of resigning or being fired=2E   In less than a week's time, I went from interviewing assistant organists=20=   and planning the music for the Fall semester to cleaning out my office,=20=   after repeated assurances from the Rector and Vestry that I would be=20 provided for, and that an assistant organist would be hired to take some=20=   of the work-load=2E   The choir-loft was not handicapped-accessible (in violation of local=20 building codes and state law =2E=2E=2E it's a brand-new building), and it = was=20 easier to get rid of me than to make it so=2E   My successor is being paid approximately 1/2 the salary I was receiving;=20=   the paid chanter (who sang a solo High Mass at 11:00) is gone, so all=20 told, they cut the music budget mid-year by approximately $30K, not=20 counting the paid quartet for Christmas, Holy Week, and Easter, which=20 was another $10K=2E   The place is bursting at the seams; the money is rolling in; the=20 pre-school income pays the entire mortgage on the new building; there's=20=   no shortage of MONEY=2E   Basically two people were unhappy with me; they'd been gunning for me=20 for six years; the MINUTE I showed any weakness, they pounced=2E   Christians???   My ASS!!!   Cheers,   Bud   Randolph Runyon wrote:   > on 9/15/03 11:08 PM, Ray Ahrens at ray_ahrens@msn=2Ecom wrote: >=20 > > > >But, no, they didn't see it that way, even though the chanter and > >his fiance were planning to be confirmed and marry in the church=2E=   > >Instead, they blew them out of the water, fired everybody (includi= ng > >me), >=20 > I'm confused=2E Didn't you give them notice and they waived the > customary 30 day period, or, did you quit because you were too ill? > I'm wondering why the story doesn't remain uniform=2E >=20 >=20 >=20 > I think Bud was talking about his Cincinnati experience this time=2E=   > The story is different because it's a different story=2E Right, Bu= d? >=20 >=20 > Randy Runyon > Music Director > Zion Lutheran Church > Hamilton, Ohio > runyonr@muohio=2Eedu >=20     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www=2Epipechat=2Eorg List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat=2Eorg Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat=2Eorg       -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E      
(back) Subject: RE: Roger Wagner's Wicks From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:36:05 -0400   Monty,   I saw one of your recital programs listed in this months TAO=2E   Andrew   Original Message: ----------------- From: RMB10@aol=2Ecom Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:45:41 -0400 (EDT) To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: Roger Wagner's Wicks     >> Now that you mention touring organs, I wonder what happened to >> the portable seven rank Wicks that Roger Wagner toured with? >>=20 > >It went in a Lutheran Church (Ascension?) in Thousand Oaks, CA=2E Blaine=20=   >Ricketts might know what happened to it after that=2E   Ascension Lutheran has an early 90's Reuter now=2E While I was a student = at UC=20 Santa Barbara, our organ studio went down to hear John Walker dedicate the= =20 instrument=2E I graduated in 1991, so I would guess that it was 1990 or s= o=2E=20 I=20 was anxious to hear a new Reuter, but my professor, Jim Welch, wanted us t= o hear=20 John play, since they had both gone to Stanford together=2E Incidentally,= =20 while I was in high school, I studied at Stanford with their former professor,=20 Herb Nanney, so we all share a lot of the same musical geneology=2E   As to the Wicks, I don't know what happened to it=2E Ascension built a ne= w=20 sanctuary and that's why they bought the Reuter=2E I know I've got the program=20 with the stoplist at home in a file somewhere=2E   Monty Bennett     -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E      
(back) Subject: to David Scribner/administrator From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 01:03:50 -0400   I was not on IRC last night and never have done the IRC thing but am enraged about how people treated Bud in IRC and on the e-mail list and mad= e him leave=2E David, I am not going to tell you what to do about this, bu= t I think you have to do something because we are losing our best chatters and=   that is not in your best interest or the rest of the chatters best interest=2E You have always been prompt in responding to everything else = so I know it's only a matter of time before you take action, but I just wante= d to express my opinion that something has to be done=2E I have enjoyed belonging to your chat so far and hope that things will be straightened ou= t soon=2E   Andrew=20   -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E      
(back) Subject: RE: to David Scribner/administrator From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:31:30 -0500   David was in the chatroom during the conversation.   Jeff     > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of > ameagher@stny.rr.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:04 AM > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Subject: to David Scribner/administrator > > David, I am not going to tell you what to do about > this, but I > think you have to do something because we are losing our best chatters = and > that is not in your best interest or the rest of the chatters best > interest. You have always been prompt in responding to everything else = so > I know it's only a matter of time before you take action, but I > just wanted > to express my opinion that something has to be done. >    
(back) Subject: RE: to David Scribner/administrator From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 01:25:24 -0400   I wasn't there Jeff, so I wouldn't have known that=2E I'm sure he took action if he was there=2E   Andrew=20   Original Message: ----------------- From: Jeff White reedstop@charter=2Enet Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:31:30 -0500 To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: RE: to David Scribner/administrator     David was in the chatroom during the conversation=2E   Jeff     > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg [mailto:pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg]On Behalf = Of > ameagher@stny=2Err=2Ecom > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:04 AM > To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg > Subject: to David Scribner/administrator > > David, I am not going to tell you what to do about > this, but I > think you have to do something because we are losing our best chatters a= nd > that is not in your best interest or the rest of the chatters best > interest=2E You have always been prompt in responding to everything els= e so > I know it's only a matter of time before you take action, but I > just wanted > to express my opinion that something has to be done=2E >   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www=2Epipechat=2Eorg List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat=2Eorg Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat=2Eorg       -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E      
(back) Subject: Re: expense of pipe organs From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 01:42:33 EDT   Dear Chatters:   I've been reading stuff from a guy on this list that just doesn't ring = true. His knowledge of both the pipe organ and the digital market is next to nil. He keeps bashing one particular organ builder with totally outlandish statements about which he knows next to nothing. I for one don't wish to enter into a food fight with him, which he's been itching to start all day. I for one don't wish to read malicious material and so from now on I will press press the delete button. I did want to express in some way how I feel about this. It's unnecessary, unethical and just plain wrong.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: to David Scribner/administrator From: "Eric McKirdy" <emckirdy@gladstone.uoregon.edu> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:02:12 -0700   On Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 10:03 PM, ameagher@stny.rr.com wrote:   > but am > enraged about how people treated Bud in IRC and on the e-mail list and > made > him leave.   Made him leave? I don't think so. Several of us were discussing the issue at hand. Rather than understand and appreciate other points of view, some of us chose to leave. Nothing more.   Eric -- must we make a federal case?