PipeChat Digest #3984 - Wednesday, September 17, 2003
 
Re: professional church musicians
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Re: Mixture Reeds?
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
RE: expense of pipe organs
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Liturgical west end
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
RE: PipeChat Digest #3983 - 09/17/03
  by "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net>
Re: Liturgical west end
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: Liturgical west end
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Liturgical west end
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Liturgical west end
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3983 - 09/17/03
  by "Peter Rodwell" <iof@ctv.es>
RE: Liturgical west end
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
RE: Liturgical west end
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
Re: Mixture Reeds?
  by "Mike Franch" <mike6514@hotmail.com>
RE: PipeChat Digest #3983 - 09/17/03
  by "Mike Franch" <mike6514@hotmail.com>
Re: Liturgical west end
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
RE: Liturgical west end
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Re: Liturgical west end
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Liturgical west end
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Liturgical west end
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Bud's Departure
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
Felix Hell in Montreal. Festival "Orgue et Couleurs"
  by <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de>
 

(back) Subject: Re: professional church musicians From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:32:43 -0400   Dear Bud, I have gone through much of what you have, mostly by people jealous = of my education or misguided loyalty. Their loyalty to a paraniod Director of Operations followed me from one department to another. So bit it. It is history. Find yourself a pro bono lawyer who will go after these guys. = After all you are retired and you have no worries about burnt bridges or angry rectors. Just collect your SSI and watch them duck. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <ameagher@stny.rr.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:19 AM Subject: Re: professional church musicians     Bud,   You should report their violations of the building codes and FORCE them to deal with it. Don't go away too easy. Make them suffer a bit for the way they treated you!   Andrew   Original Message: ----------------- Wrom: JJPHSCRTNHGSWZIDR Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:53:36 -0700 To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: professional church musicians     No, it was the Newport Beach story. It all happened so fast I'm still not sure WHAT the story was (grin), but as I said, I was basically presented with the choices of resigning or being fired.   In less than a week's time, I went from interviewing assistant organists and planning the music for the Fall semester to cleaning out my office, after repeated assurances from the Rector and Vestry that I would be provided for, and that an assistant organist would be hired to take some of the work-load.   The choir-loft was not handicapped-accessible (in violation of local building codes and state law ... it's a brand-new building), and it was easier to get rid of me than to make it so.   My successor is being paid approximately 1/2 the salary I was receiving; the paid chanter (who sang a solo High Mass at 11:00) is gone, so all told, they cut the music budget mid-year by approximately $30K, not counting the paid quartet for Christmas, Holy Week, and Easter, which was another $10K.   The place is bursting at the seams; the money is rolling in; the pre-school income pays the entire mortgage on the new building; there's no shortage of MONEY.   Basically two people were unhappy with me; they'd been gunning for me for six years; the MINUTE I showed any weakness, they pounced.   Christians???   My ASS!!!   Cheers,   Bud   Randolph Runyon wrote:   > on 9/15/03 11:08 PM, Ray Ahrens at ray_ahrens@msn.com wrote: > > > > >But, no, they didn't see it that way, even though the chanter and > >his fiance were planning to be confirmed and marry in the church. > >Instead, they blew them out of the water, fired everybody = (including > >me), > > I'm confused. Didn't you give them notice and they waived the > customary 30 day period, or, did you quit because you were too ill? > I'm wondering why the story doesn't remain uniform. > > > > I think Bud was talking about his Cincinnati experience this time. > The story is different because it's a different story. Right, Bud? > > > Randy Runyon > Music Director > Zion Lutheran Church > Hamilton, Ohio > runyonr@muohio.edu >     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org       -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: Mixture Reeds? From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:02:46 -0500   Sounds to me like it would give new definition to the expression "screaming mixtures" - screaming cat fight! :-)   Margo   > > > >>Has anyone ever heard of a set of mixtures made from reeds? >> >>Mike Franch >>in Madison, WI >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >> >> > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > >      
(back) Subject: RE: expense of pipe organs From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:02:36 -0400   Ron,   Perhaps it would help if you were more specific. I'm not sure anyone knows who you are talking about. Are you refering to the mailing list or the IRC?   -WG   > RonSeverin@aol.com > Dear Chatters: > > I've been reading stuff from a guy on this list that just doesn't ring = true. > His knowledge of both the pipe organ and the digital market is > next to nil. He keeps bashing one particular organ builder with > totally outlandish statements about which he knows next to > nothing. I for one don't wish to enter into a food fight with him, > which he's been itching to start all day. I for one don't wish to > read malicious material and so from now on I will press press > the delete button. I did want to express in some way how I feel > about this. It's unnecessary, unethical and just plain wrong. > > Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Liturgical west end From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:02:49 -0400   > the architect made the statement that the organ HAD to be located at = the West End for LITURGICAL reasons.   Is there any theory or liturgical principle in Presbyterianism that = might underly this statement? Come to think of it, organs are at the = west end in Presbyterian churches more often than in some denominations, = although your pastor's estimate of 50% agrees with my experience.   I'm not aware of anything official on the subject in Anglicanism, except = that the divided-chancel position for the choir is not at all in accord = with contemporary liturgical thinking. Even when it was coming into = favor in the late 19th century (and I must admit I like it myself) = authorities on the organ might justly complain that, especially when a = church not originally built for this layout was being rearranged, it = would cause the organ to be stuffed into a most unfavorable location.   From my experience, there seems to be a psychological effect that when = the organ is in the chancel, the clergy and the organist communicate and = co-ordinate better in their relationship. When it is in the back of the = nave, the organist and choir tend to do their own thing-- not = necessarily hostile to the clergy, just a little more independent. What = do others think?    
(back) Subject: RE: PipeChat Digest #3983 - 09/17/03 From: "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:06:53 -0500   Have you considered replacing your stained glass with colored plastic - something of digital design, perhaps? I'm sure it would be "just as = good".   Michael - looking for flame proof digits     -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: enough is enough From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:08:29 -0400   <snip>   Merry: That's not my observation. We pay our pastor well (VERY well, for = a parish of only 150 people), house him and family not sumptuously, but = quite decently, cover his (and family's) medical plan and pension plan, pay his kids' tuition at the best private schools in Manhattan. He's really worth it, too. We pay "adequately" for secretarial and building maintenance folks.   <snip>   But our cantor is also really superb. He gets good salary, all the perks (medical, pension, etc.). He and pastor are both so good that it scares = us to contemplate how many other stronger parishes must be licking their = chops at the possibility of stealing one or the other from us.   We've GOT to find a source for major funds to maintain and repair our stained glass. But we'll never skimp on EITHER pastor or cantor.      
(back) Subject: Re: Liturgical west end From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:21:22 -0400   In a message dated 9/17/2003 1:02:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = PEMMONS@wcupa.edu writes:   > Is there any theory or liturgical principle in Presbyterianism that = might underly this statement? Come to think of it, organs are at the west = end in Presbyterian churches more often than in some denominations, = although your pastor's estimate of 50% agrees with my experience. <   so, what if your presbyterian church faces north or south? :)    
(back) Subject: Re: Liturgical west end From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:48:00 EDT   In a message dated 9/17/2003 1:06:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, PEMMONS@wcupa.edu writes:   > there any theory or liturgical principle in Presbyterianism that might > underly this statement   my theological understanding of ANY Reformed Church is that the WORD AND TABLE are front and center and all else--ALL ELSE is secondary. That is why organs often were in the balcony = or split chancel so the table could be central.   dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Liturgical west end From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:49:02 -0400   On 9/17/03 1:02 PM, "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> wrote:   > From my experience, there seems to be a psychological effect that when = the > organ is in the chancel, the clergy and the organist communicate and > co-ordinate better in their relationship. When it is in the back of the = nave, > the organist and choir tend to do their own thing-- not necessarily = hostile to > the clergy, just a little more independent. What do others think? > I agree. I used to be very much a west-end person, and my second choir = job (Oakland, Calif., LCMS) had it that way. But our whole perception of the liturgical drama has changed since then (1955), and now I favor "up-front" somewhere.   Which is history repeating itself yet again. (Anglicans, please correct = me on this:) In the wake of Tractarianism (early 1840s?) a romantic yearning for monastic choirs SWEPT Anglicanism, and very swiftly caused divided choirs to become virtually universal for over a century. Thus, for = textbook examples, St. Paul's Chapel, Manhattan (colonial) has west-end music, but (1844?) Trinity Church, a few blocks south, has the divided chancel. East-coast Lutherans in the late 19th and early 20th centuries "aped" the Anglicans and did the same. As did the Presbyterians, I think. And the Methodists. The more a congregation wanted to be "upscale," the more it imitated the (obviously rich and established) Episcopalians.   But LCMS Lutherans (who ape NOone), and Western states Lutherans generally stuck with the European Lutheran model--west end. Examples: Lutheran cathedrals in Stockholm and Uppsala. Ulm. Valparaiso Univ. Chapel.   Alan            
(back) Subject: Re: Liturgical west end From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:59:15 -0400   On 9/17/03 1:21 PM, "BlueeyedBear@aol.com" <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> wrote:   > so, what if your presbyterian church faces north or south? :)   I think you're joshing. But just in case you're not, the original poster (and subsequent posts) have been talking about LITURGICAL directions, not COMPASS directions. In liturgy and architecture talk, the altar is in the east end, regardless of what end it is in geography. (Applies to all ecclesiastical architecture, as well as synagogues. Maybe even Masonic temples? West end is the "other" end, regardless of what the compass = says.   Alan (who notices that the "front door" of a church or concert hall is, = once you've entered the building, in "the back" of the church or concert hall; but don't get me started)    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3983 - 09/17/03 From: "Peter Rodwell" <iof@ctv.es> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:59:59 +0200   Quoting Mike Franch:   > Has anyone ever heard of a set of mixtures made from reeds?   I have a 3-volume set here on the Spanish Baroque organ in which the author states that the battery of reeds traditionally found on Iberian organs should be considered as a mixture. Not quite the same thing as a mixture made of reeds, admittedly.   I do find it somewhat amusing when I see - always on non-Iberian organs - an en chamade rank or two of reeds labeled "Spanischewerk" or similar. Iberian reeds (not all of which are en chamade by any means) are surprisingly complex in their composition. If I ever find the time, I'll translate the bit about reeds being a mixture and post it to the list.   PEter.    
(back) Subject: RE: Liturgical west end From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:18:16 -0400   > so, what if your presbyterian church faces north or south? :)   You're probably just playfully pulling my leg, but in case not: I was = using "west end" to mean the end opposite the altar-- or, excuse me, the = communion table. It is less ambiguous than any alternative I can think = of. When someone says "in back of the church" (or "console facing x," = another common source of confusion) we don't know what is meant. Does = that mean where the vestibule is, just on the other side of a door from = "the front steps", or does that mean where the garbage cans are in the = alley at the opposite end?   I don't know how common this usage is in non-liturgical denominations, = and it did seem rather odd to hear an architect referring to the west = end in a meeting of Presbyterians. The liturgical tradition is, of = course, to align a church so that the congregation directly faces the = rising sun on its feast of title. Nowadays, this nicety yields quite = casually to more practical considerations in every major denomination, = but the altar end is still referred to as "east". Still, in = denominations whose buildings don't have feasts of title, the whole = concept must be particularly moot and alien. So I wonder whether the = architect, in saying that for liturgical reasons the organ must be at = the west end, had Presbyterian liturgical principles in mind or was = extrapolating from some other tradition.      
(back) Subject: RE: Liturgical west end From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:52:51 -0400   You wrote:     Which is history repeating itself yet again. (Anglicans, please correct = me on this:) In the wake of Tractarianism (early 1840s?) a romantic yearning for monastic choirs SWEPT Anglicanism, and very swiftly caused divided choirs to become virtually universal for over a century. Thus, for = textbook examples, St. Paul's Chapel, Manhattan (colonial) has west-end music, but (1844?) Trinity Church, a few blocks south, has the divided chancel. East-coast Lutherans in the late 19th and early 20th centuries "aped" the Anglicans and did the same. As did the Presbyterians, I think. And the Methodists. The more a congregation wanted to be "upscale," the more it imitated the (obviously rich and established) Episcopalians.   But LCMS Lutherans (who ape NOone), and Western states Lutherans generally stuck with the European Lutheran model--west end. Examples: Lutheran cathedrals in Stockholm and Uppsala. Ulm. Valparaiso Univ. Chapel.   Alan   I replied: The Tractarian or Oxford movement had an immediate effect on SOME Anglican parishes starting as early as the 1840's in England and having a profound effect later on some Anglican parishes in North America. The movement gradually, and to some extent, continues to affect almost all Anglican churches. For a brief period before Tractarianism for instance hymn = singing in most Anglican churches was almost extinct I'm told. Parishioners were content in many instances to have a few solo instrumentalists in place of = an organ. I'm writing from the perspective of a Canadian in South Ontario = where most present Anglican parishes had their beginnings between 1800 and 1850. My evangelical background (Baptist) took a very dim view of Tractarianism and its' apparent "shift back to Rome". Funny thing is: the church I grew = up in was profoundly influenced by Tractarianism and I'm glad it was. We had = a large pipe organ a good choir robust hymn singing, gothic architecture, an ornate communion table-all things the earlier founders of my congregation (hymn singing excepted) would have rejected outright, if not for the = subtle influence of Tractarianism. It should be noted that the founders of Tractarianism were by and large former evangelicals or dissenters. Andrew Mead      
(back) Subject: Re: Mixture Reeds? From: "Mike Franch" <mike6514@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:29:11 -0500   Or like a bunch of rapidly flapping tongues screaming wildly in the open, while each of them slightly out of tune with another.   Sorta like what's been going on here for the past few days....   (Now nurturing a bruise from a flying Contra Trumpet)   Mike Franch in Madison, WI     >From: Margo Dillard <dillardm@airmail.net> >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: Re: Mixture Reeds? >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:02:46 -0500 > >Sounds to me like it would give new definition to the expression = "screaming >mixtures" - screaming cat fight! :-) > >Margo > >> >> >> >>>Has anyone ever heard of a set of mixtures made from reeds? >>> >>>Mike Franch >>>in Madison, WI >>> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> >> >> >>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> >> >> >> >> >   _________________________________________________________________ Use custom emotions -- try MSN Messenger 6.0! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_emoticon    
(back) Subject: RE: PipeChat Digest #3983 - 09/17/03 From: "Mike Franch" <mike6514@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:35:18 -0500   I can get you a screamin' deal on vinyl replacement windows. Instead of hiring a person to clean stained glass at a hefty price, merely unlatch, fold down and wipe with a soft terry cloth.   Mike Franch in Madison, WI (who will lay low again once intellectual conversation (of which I can't comment as I'm not an itellectual) comes back to this group. =   That should inspire all to again write of contrapuntal intonations of = Franck and the proper method of cleaning reed tongues.   By the way, am I responding to the right (last) person of this thread?     >From: "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net> >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: RE: PipeChat Digest #3983 - 09/17/03 >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:06:53 -0500   _________________________________________________________________ Try MSN Messenger 6.0 with integrated webcam functionality! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_webcam    
(back) Subject: Re: Liturgical west end From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:50:23 -0400   In a message dated 9/17/2003 1:59:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes:   > I think you're joshing.   yes, i was joshing.  
(back) Subject: RE: Liturgical west end From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:01:00 -0400   Alan Freed writes:   > In the wake of Tractarianism (early 1840s?) a romantic yearning for = monastic choirs SWEPT Anglicanism, and very swiftly caused divided = choirs to become virtually universal for over a century.... East-coast = Lutherans in the late 19th and early 20th centuries "aped" the Anglicans = and did the same. As did the Presbyterians, I think. And the = Methodists. The more a congregation wanted to be "upscale," the more it = imitated the (obviously rich and established) Episcopalians.   I think you're exactly correct, except that the direct model was the = cathedral rather than the convent. (We might yet say that the indirect = model was monastic in that quite a few cathedrals were "of the New = Foundation", which means that they were monasteries before the = reformation.) For the most radical Tractarians, congregational singing = of the liturgy was an important desideratum, so the divided-chancel = movement came more from the moderate Tractarians. The most normative = and influential of the latter was probably Sir Frederick A. Gore Ouseley = with his foundation at St. Michael's College, Tenbury. See _The Choral = Revival in the Anglican Church_, by Bernarr Rainbow.=20      
(back) Subject: Re: Liturgical west end From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:03:43 EDT   Dear Paul:   I think it goes way back to the Monastic, Orthodox way of the Mass. The east end catches the first early morning light which helps if reading from candles only. Both traditions kept the Sacred Mysteries puposely hidden from the view of the Laity. Thus the divided Choir of English Cathedrals and churches. The Choir consisted of consecrated monks and accolytes(one of the priestly minor orders). The Orthodox still do for the most part. With the modern changes much of the Symbolism has been lost to ancient history. The Laity were "congregated" in the West end while the Sacred Mysteries, the priest, and the choir presided in the East end. The altar until the Renaisance for the most part remained hidden. The first light wasn't the only reason for the altar at the East end. The priest faced the altar to the east as Christ in the second coming would appear from that direction, east toward the west. I don't think it has anything in particular to do with Presbyterianism per se. Lay persons regarded the East end just like the Temple of Jerusalem, the Holy of Holies by the Jews. Only a priest could go there, and only the HIGH PRIEST and only once a year. Contained in there was the Davidic Tabernacle the Show Bread, and The Tablets of the Ten Commandments. It was a custom to tie a cord around the waist of the priest incase he was over come or died in there. It became tradition to do this, as it was believed that anyone else entering would die if they were unauthorized to be there.   Interesting?   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: Liturgical west end From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:25:18 -0400   On 9/17/03 2:52 PM, "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> wrote:   > It should be noted that the founders of Tractarianism were by and large = former > evangelicals or dissenters.   Now, of THAT I had no idea at all!   Thank you!   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Liturgical west end From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:26:44 -0400   On 9/17/03 2:50 PM, "BlueeyedBear@aol.com" <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> wrote:   > yes, i was joshing.   Thanks. I thought so. And I'm glad.   Alan, the silly Literalist    
(back) Subject: Re: Bud's Departure From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:37:42 -0500   Hello! Well, I don't normally post too much to this list and no one probably cares what I have to say, but I felt compelled to at least post something. I'm not really adding to the real discussion of the issue because I have my own opinions about it that are in agreement with others who have already stated their views.     THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EXPRESSING ONE'S OPINION/DISAGREEMENT AND MAKING PERSONAL ATTACKS ON A PERSON. NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO BE SUBJECT TO PERSONAL ATTACKS WHETHER OR NOT THEIR OPINION IS "WRONG". IF ANYONE MADE PERSONAL ATTACKS ON BUD, THEN THEY DID MAKE HIM LEAVE. HE WOULD HAVE TO BE SOME SORT OF MASOCHIST NOT TO.     Blessings, Beau Surratt Minister of Worship and Music United Church of Hyde Park, Chicago Piano Instructor, Hyde Park Suzuki Institute Home Email: Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com Suzuki Email: beausurratt@hydeparksuzuki.com     -----Original Message----- From: "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:01:51 -0500 Subject: Bud's Departure   > Hi, Andrew: > > You wrote: > > > I was not on IRC last night and never have done the > > IRC thing but am enraged about how people treated Bud > > in IRC and on the e-mail list and made him leave.... > > Whoa! Aren't we comparing apples and oranges? Who MADE > Bud leave? > > When we participate in discussions with free-thinkers, > aren't we inviting our own thoughts to be challenged? > > In such an environment, no one MAKES us do anything. > > From my own experience on these discussion lists, I can > assure you that it is possible to state something that > sounds outrageous to others, ....and then we receive the > close scrutiny of that absurdity. That is what all > intelligent discussion is about. Be reasonable. If we > cannot be reasonable, then, perhaps, Bud did the best > thing for him. > > The pain of rejection is intense. It can seathe inside > a person for months, ...maybe, years. Let's be sympathetic > to his hurt, but let's also understand that open discussion > is "open" discussion. > > Appreciatively, > F. Richard Burt > > > .. > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Felix Hell in Montreal. Festival "Orgue et Couleurs" From: <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:44:10 +0200 (CEST)   Dear Listmembers,   On September 28, 8 pm, Felix Hell will perform in Montreal, Eglise Saint-Nom-de-Jesus, within the festival "Orgue er Couleur" in a jointly recital together with the French organist Vincent Dubois, France.     For details visit: www.orgueetcouleurs.com   Hans-Friedrich Hell