PipeChat Digest #3989 - Thursday, September 18, 2003 Re: PLAYing Music by "Anya/Andreas" <firstname.lastname@example.org> RE: PLAYing Music by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> RE: PLAYing Music by "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> the cost of console-ation by "james nerstheimer" <firstname.lastname@example.org> stop controls by "Gary Black" <email@example.com> RE: stop controls by "Tom Hoehn" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: PLAYing Music by <RonSeverin@aol.com> RE: stop controls by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Minor technical glitsch by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> I gave the wrong web address for Grace Lutheran, Lancaster! :-( by "Karl Moyer" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: expense of pipe organs by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Libel, slander, and being an adult by <TubaMagna@aol.com> Re: Mark's divorce gospel by "bobelms" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Memories of a junior organ builder 01 by "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Re: Atlantic City by "John L. Speller" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Mark's divorce gospel by "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Stop Controls! by "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> RE: Libel, slander, and being an adult by "Glenda" <firstname.lastname@example.org> RE: stop controls by "Glenda" <email@example.com> Re: stop controls by <Gfc234@aol.com> Re: stop controls by "Randolph Runyon" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
(back) Subject: Re: PLAYing Music From: "Anya/Andreas" <email@example.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:08:54 -0400 That's an interesting observation that I think has some merit. In = addition, I think many people are truly unable to recognize and/or appreciate = playing of a high calibre, and therefore don't see much difference in what a = trained musician can accomplish vs. what Aunt Bessie (or Uncle Buck) can do. It's not a big deal to them, after all, "music is music" so what's all the fuss about. Hope this makes sense... Andreas Thiel Director of Music St. Marys United Church St. Marys, Ontario ----- Original Message ----- From: "F Richard Burt" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: "PipeChat" <email@example.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 8:34 AM Subject: PLAYing Music > Hey, Guys and Gals: > > I just had a "flash" of insight that just might bear > on this whole discussion. > > How are we (musicians) perceived by the people and the > rest of the church staff? We are people who PLAY music. > > Could it possibly be that any profession that PLAYs at > his/her work is seriously compared with those who WORK > for a living? > > At no time in my career have I ever thought of what I do > as anything other than WORK, regardless of what we call > it. > > Listening to the banter on this list for the past week > or two causes me to wonder if there is not a more serious > flaw in how we speak of the work we do for a living. > > Anyone have a better way to describe PLAYing music? > > F. Richard Burt > Dorian Organs > > > . > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > Administration: mailto:email@example.com > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > >
(back) Subject: RE: PLAYing Music From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:53:54 -0400 > Anyone have a better way to describe PLAYing music? Good question. I can tell you right now that to call it "performing" will be no = improvement. People will hold that against us as egotism and = exhibitionism. Just remember Arie a few days ago. I once had a rector = who used "performing" as an accusation. I just reminded him that my work = is a performance in the same way his sermons are, no more and no less.
(back) Subject: RE: PLAYing Music From: "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Hello, Organ grinding? THAT sounds like work to me! :) Regards, Colin Mitchell UK --- "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> wrote: > > Anyone have a better way to describe PLAYing > music? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: the cost of console-ation From: "james nerstheimer" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:21:50 -0500 <Am I correct in guessing the console remains one of the most costly = items?> Wouldn't surprise me at all. We got a quote of $54,000 to rebuild our = 3-man Moller console (from opus 8903) and to bring all the wiring in the organ = up to code. We are actually going to do something finallly this year or = early next. Our guy says if we start in January or early Feb., he could have it = done by Easter. Wishful thinking? BTW, I played the Buzard at St. David's, Glenview a couple of weeks ago. Niiiiiice instrument. Found the tracker touch a bit on the heavy side. = Can that sort of thing be adjusted easily? Per the old Schlicker console at Ascension, I liked it better too. The ivory keys had these subtle indentations worn into them over the years. They felt more massive and comfortable under the fingers too. The new console is okay, but the stop arrangement is a pain in the ass. I only = like to use the combination action when absolutely necessary, but here one is forced to use it more. One hand will no loger serve to draw both a 16' = and a mixture at the same time! livin' in the past jim O):^) _________________________________________________________________ Need more e-mail storage? Get 10MB with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=3Dfeatures/es
(back) Subject: stop controls From: "Gary Black" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:50:08 -0500 Hi list, I have an idea for a new thread. What are your preferences for stop controls and why? Draw knobs, tabs, or rockers? Gary
(back) Subject: RE: stop controls From: "Tom Hoehn" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:58:49 -0400 The decision for the type of stop control depends upon the magnitude of = the instrument and it's function. Drawknobs are the most impressive looking = on large instruments and the arrangement on the stop jams makes the = instrument look absolutely massive -- of course they are extremely expensive to = build. I personally prefer tongue tablets in a horseshoe configuration -- everything easily within reach. The church I play at has a 4-manual customer Rodgers console -- but I also play a 42 rank Wurlitzer with two full rows of tablets with 2 partial rows as well. Tom Hoehn, Organist Roaring 20's Pizza & Pipes, Ellenton, FL (substitute - 4/42 Wurlitzer) First United Methodist Church, Clearwater, FL (4/9?- = Rodgers/Ruffati/Wicks) CFTOS/Manasota/OATOS/HiloBay/CIC-ATOS/VotS-ATOS/DTOS/AGO http://theatreorgans.com/tomhoehn -----Original Message----- From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]On Behalf Of Gary Black Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 4:50 PM To: PipeChat Subject: stop controls Hi list, I have an idea for a new thread. What are your preferences for stop controls and why? Draw knobs, tabs, or rockers? Gary "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:email@example.com Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:email@example.com
(back) Subject: Re: PLAYing Music From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:14:59 EDT Hi Andreas Thiel: I must agree with you. There are people who claim high standards, play concert grade music for services, which is fine by the way, but over the heads of the congregation. I suggest that these try the concert circuit to get a taste of things. Most congregations are looking to their organist to play worshipful, simple music they can understand, that touches their soul, and opens it to worship God. Playing the heavy liturature in the ordinary parish church, may support the ego of the organist, but turn the congregation off. Concert venues are mostly empty, unless the organist is of superior talent, knows how to set up a program that works for most concert goers, and has achieved acknowledged recognition. Then the people will come out to hear you. The smart ones instinctively know how to do this by playing an eclectic variety of soft, medium mostly, and one or two big pieces. I'll bet some names come to mind, hmmm? Even at professional conventions, other organists will walk out of a too heavy concert of noise and bombast. I like all types of organ music, but I desire a variety. Virtuosity doesn't sell by it self, It is tempered by a carefully chosen variety of pieces. High standards I hope doesn't mean, educating people, pushing your preferences on others, or just plain showing off. Think of the concerts that left you wanting more, and those that you were glad, mercifully came to an end. Was it the organ that was good or bad, or was it the registrant that made it so? It's also possible to play on a particularly bad organ, and still have people wanting to hear you again, and the opposite is also possible too. It all rides on the program chosen, and the registrations used. That takes real talent to pull off. I've said my piece, Ron Severin
(back) Subject: RE: stop controls From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:32:27 -0400 Gary Black asks: >I have an idea for a new thread. What are your preferences for stop = controls and why? Ah, who can resist an invitation to bloviate? OK, here's my little = spiel, which I haven't given for a year or two :-) I prefer drawknobs on stop jambs because of the two-dimensional layout. = If well-designed, the knobs of a division will reflect choruses that an = organist can easily locate visually by geometric shape and position, and = these groups also lend themselves ergonomically to the hand's drawing or = retiring them as a group. At the same time, the entire resources of the = division can be disposed bottom-to-top in the order (at least = approximately) that we see them on a stop list. =20 With either tabs or rockers arranged in a row, we are left with only a = one-dimensional ordering. Whether they are arranged by choruses or by = pitches, the result will sometimes be confusing and inconvenient. = Physically, they may be closer to the keyboards, but this advantage is = offset by the time required to visually scan a row of fairly = identical-looking controls for the stops one wants and then to place the = hand carefully enough to move only the desired tabs and not others. Stop tabs are admittedly cheaper and more compact. If we're considering = about the best way to use a budget, I'd probably be happy with a stop = tab console for a relatively small organ if it would allow us to buy = significantly more of something else. But speaking ideally, if an organ = is deluxe enough to have three manuals, then I would wish for a = traditional Anglo-American drawknob console. =20 With very little experience at a theater organ, I'd guess that the vivid = color-coding of the tabs is important as an attempt to work around the = above disadvantage. I also don't have much experience with terraced = consoles of the French type, but those I have examined look more-or-less = quirky. It seems that any one of them would be relatively difficult for = a visitor to get used to, because if it is ever possible for all the = knobs to be in really logical places, it's sheer good luck. The low = profile and the elegant appearance are points in their favor, I suppose, = and if those who have them love them, I will gladly defer to their = experience; but I wonder how practical they really are for hand = registration during playing. Some feel differently: for them tabs or rockers are not a concession but = an ideal situation. I'm curious to hear why they think so.
(back) Subject: Minor technical glitsch From: "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:39:33 -0400 Very minor technical problem. Today I got this typical case. Happens a = few times a day. Next line following this paragraph is notification that = Dennis is writing me. Clearly, he starts by quoting someone else. That's = followed by his comment (of which I quote below only a few words). Fine. (On my machine, in my program, these differences are even more obvious by color = and by lesserthan/greaterthansignas.) But I wish I knew who the "someone = else" is. If I knew who, I could probably look back at the complete post from "someone else." Maybe I can, knowing only the "subject"--but that may = have very legitimately have been changed. Am I missing something? On 9/18/03 8:44 AM, "Dennis Goward" <email@example.com> wrote: >> My point is that I have every bit as many responsibilities as the = pastor >> being the full-time director of music. > > I respectfully disagree with you there, on two points: > > From the temporal side: > Alan
(back) Subject: I gave the wrong web address for Grace Lutheran, Lancaster! :-( From: "Karl Moyer" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:46:06 -0400 My apologies: I gave the wrong web address for Grace Lutheran Church, Lancaster PA, as regards the organist/director opening there. The correct web address: www.GraceLutheranChurch.com Cordially, Karl
(back) Subject: Re: expense of pipe organs From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:10:18 -0400 On 9/18/03 12:10 PM, "Jeff White" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > Wicks is one of the few shops that "does it all." They make everything = single > component (except for the combination action?)...the Direct-Electric = (I'm sure > there's a symbol needed here.."R", or "TM") action, all of the casework, = and > the pipes themselves. I would DEFINITELY talk with this company when = the day > comes to expand our organ... Jeff, I've heard two descriptions of "doing it all." Or three, if you = wish. (1) Buy pipes (etc.) made by somebody else. (That doesn't count, of course.) (2) Maintain a warehouse of beautiful wood, curing slowly, even over some years, so that, when you need to build a 16' wood, you select carefully = from properly aged wood, and build them pipes. (Fritts and Pasi were = mentioned, but I cannot verify that at ALL.) (3) Own and maintain several mountainsides of carefully tended timber (trees), which will be cut at the right time, sawn, and placed in that (temperature- and humidity-controlled) warehouse to cure for decades, and which will be turned into wood pipes as needed. Metal pipes, of course, = are poured on that canvas-covered table, right there in their own shop. Both Pasi and Taylor/Boody were mentioned, but again, I can't verify or even = hint that that is the case. So, I think, "does it all" might have different meanings. Use the phrase carefully. Alan
(back) Subject: Libel, slander, and being an adult From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:21:34 EDT To the august body of PipeChatters: Before applying for your next church position, assemble the following materials for consideration: (a) References from three people with whom you had constant clashes in = junior high school or college, making sure they are people you have not = seen since. Remember, you wish to be judged as you were years or decades ago, = and NOBODY must give you credit for growth or change. Who and what you are NOW = does NOT matter; (b) Tape recordings of the two most embarrassing recitals you ever = gave, making sure that the few really well-performed pieces are edited out; only = submit the worst selections, for which you were obviously unprepared, and = even stopped mid-composition; (c) A list of the evil rumors that hurt you the most, and cost you a = job, a friendship, or a promotion in the past. Make sure the list is degrading, = and not true. It is best to embellish the lies and add some unrealistic = touches, since you know those reading the list will eat it up without questioning = its veracity. Lies are pointless unless they grow to evil dimensions; (d) Three letters from people who have lied about you to others, even = if they have not met you. It is critical that these be really vicious lies, = and that they have sufficiently spread to embittered people in other states = who do not have the self-respect to do anything other than spread the lies = further. They must NOT get into the hands of people with the dignity to make their = own judgements and evaluations. (e) The telephone numbers of a couple of people who dismissed you from = a job during your lifetime. It doesn't matter when, or why, or who was = right. Acrimony counts, even if it was ten, twenty, or thirty years ago. These materials must be submitted to somebody important in the decision-making process who will refuse to judge you as you are now. It is = imperative that they have no idea whether you have grown, changed for the better, or = made great strides both technically and musically. Hopefully, they are shallow enough to take the documents you submitted = at face value. They must NEVER meet you in person, or they might find out = that you are diginified, intelligent, kind, caring, committed, and deeply respectful of your both your art and your colleagues. AND UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES MUST YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A POSITION TO GIVE = YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY, unless defending yourself will make the situation = worse, and they will step up their attacks. This procedure will free up the time of your hardworking colleagues. = It will prove to them that you're not the lazy slacker fraud that they say = you are, but actually worked HARD so that THEY wouldn't have to do all the = difficult tasks on the aforementioned list... Sebastian M. Gluck New York City
(back) Subject: Re: Mark's divorce gospel From: "bobelms" <email@example.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:28:39 +0800 Sorry man (er ... person), the politically correct no longer allow the use of that word "man" in church music. The latest Australian Hynm Book (Together in Song) has achieved the task of ridding that book entirely of the word "man". SO ---- now we have the following gems of hymn writing: "Dear Lord and Father of mankind" has become "Dear Father, Lord of humankind" "Oh brother man fold to your heart your brother" is now "Fold to your heart your sister and your brother". Bleh!!! Bob Elms. ---- Original Message ---- From: ContraReed@aol.com To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Mark's divorce gospel Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:42:11 -0400 >In a message dated 9/18/2003 7:25:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >Keys4bach writes: > >> In The ELCA the lesson is the divorce issue. > >How about for an anthem: "Turn Back, O Man" > > >Richard (ducking) >
(back) Subject: Re: Memories of a junior organ builder 01 From: "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:34:21 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: "PipeChat" <email@example.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 12:37 PM Subject: Memories of a junior organ builder 01 > The logo on the console which said > "Aristide Cavaille-Coll =E0 Paris" hadn't the slightest significance = neither > for my father nor for me at this time. It is interesting that you should say this, since it is my theory that = many people who later go on to be eminent organists or organbuilders have = usually grown up in a church which has an outstanding pipe organ. A while back I reviewed a book on the fine Pennsylvania organbuilder Charles Durner and = his instruments for the OHS journal, "The Tracker". The book among other = things charted organists who had grown up with Durner organs, and it is = remarkable how many of them went on to achieve eminence in their profession, even = when they came from fairly obscure churches. It seems that really good organs have the ability to inspire people. John Speller
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City From: "John L. Speller" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:39:37 -0500 Bearing in mind the stupendous number of man-hours that went into the original construction of this instrument, and the amount of damage that = was done to it in the recent work on the building, I regretfully think that a complete restoration of the Midmer-Losh auditorium organ is no longer feasible. On the other hand, a restoration of the Kimball in the ballroom would be perfectly feasible, and my advice would be to concentrate on = that. John Speller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> To: "PipeChat" <email@example.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 4:50 AM Subject: Atlantic City > Good morning all, > > Is there any indication of how things are going down in the Atlantic > City Organ camp? The last news update on the site is still at May 30, > 2003 - I think. My feeling has been that if folks don't want to shell = out > the 11-12 Million to do a full restore/blower relocate on the organ, it > might be necessary to develop a plan B for the organ. I don't consider = it > rocket science to tray/clean pipes, perform basic assemble/dissasemble > operations, re-felt pipe racks, or even wind valves under good = direction, > etc... My thought is perhaps there is a decent size group of organ fans > (non-techies) that would love to have the opportunity to get their hands > dirty in a way they don't get to do every day. Under the direction of some > experienced folk the bunch might be able to mob the 1 currently operational > chamber and get it back up and running (after the coating of = construction > dust) so that the organ can earn it's keep. I believe a playing organ will > advertise itself more than a silent one. These are all just thoughts of > mine, perhaps in foolish youthful impatience and idealism, yet I don't think > it's a stretch to have a work weekend or two, or even a week to knock it > out, chest-by-chest. Am I wacko? Sure I am. > > > -Nate > > "The naive apprentice" > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > Administration: mailto:email@example.com > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > > >
(back) Subject: Re: Mark's divorce gospel From: "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:41:48 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: <ContraReed@aol.com> To: ""PipeChat"" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 10:42 AM Subject: Re: Mark's divorce gospel > In a message dated 9/18/2003 7:25:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Keys4bach writes: > > > In The ELCA the lesson is the divorce issue. > > How about for an anthem: "Turn Back, O Man" You mean, "Turn back, O person, Quit your foolish ways"? John Speller
(back) Subject: Stop Controls! From: "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:03:28 -0400 >I have an idea for a new thread. What are your preferences for stop controls and why? Good evening Pipe Chatters!!! I have some tapes of Diane Bish shows and there are a couple of organs (from Europe) that have one huge panel of tablets on one side of the = console to control all of the stops (and I assume couplers). Any info on the genesis and pro/cons of that design? Also on the Bish tapes was that Freiburg Cathedral console with the concave tablet stop jambs, very interesting. Of course there's also the classic terraced stop jamb with oblique = knobs (Audsley terminology) as well. I'm a little daunted by those but I'm sure with enough seat time they are perfectly handy. (Doesn't Methuen have terraced jambs?) Finally I tuned a Quimby organ today that has some parts from the old Moller it replaced and I have to say when I listened to the combination action (or rather tried to listen) I missed the phthwump of a nice electro-pneumatic combo action. (C: Take care, best regards, sincerely, = -Nate "The Wacko Apprentice"
(back) Subject: RE: Libel, slander, and being an adult From: "Glenda" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:52:22 -0500 I never thought of these, Seb. Do you think this method will work also for obtaining an appointment to the judiciary? Glenda Sutton firstname.lastname@example.org (running for cemetery trustee in the next election) -----Original Message----- From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] On Behalf Of TubaMagna@aol.com To the august body of PipeChatters: Before applying for your next church position, assemble the following materials for consideration: <material excised> This procedure will free up the time of your hardworking colleagues. It will prove to them that you're not the lazy slacker fraud that they say you are, but actually worked HARD so that THEY wouldn't have to do all the difficult tasks on the aforementioned list...
(back) Subject: RE: stop controls From: "Glenda" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:52:22 -0500 I prefer draw knobs, but because I learned with draw knobs. First impressions do last. Glenda Sutton firstname.lastname@example.org
(back) Subject: Re: stop controls From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:18:33 EDT I really prefer a tracker with big, easy to reach (and yank in the heat of = the moment) stop knobs. Stop tabs have their benefits too, but in a = hurry, its too easy to slap on the wrong stop. Plus, a big organ with tabs or "horse = teeth" is confusing. Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile email@example.com
(back) Subject: Re: stop controls From: "Randolph Runyon" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:21:48 -0400 Draw knobs are a much more satisfying esthetic pleasure for the player. I recall reading that Edwin Lemare always carefully polished his draw knobs before a recital. Not sure why. Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio email@example.com on 9/18/03 9:18 PM, Gfc234@aol.com at Gfc234@aol.com wrote: I really prefer a tracker with big, easy to reach (and yank in the heat of the moment) stop knobs. Stop tabs have their benefits too, but in a = hurry, its too easy to slap on the wrong stop. Plus, a big organ with tabs or "horse teeth" is confusing. Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile firstname.lastname@example.org <http://email@example.com/>