PipeChat Digest #3998 - Saturday, September 20, 2003 Re: Howell by "Gary Black" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: PipeChat Digest #3997 - 09/20/03 by "Peter Rodwell" <email@example.com> Anthem Selection Tool by "David Baker" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Atlantic City and friends (LONG) by "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Malotte, Hope-Jones, von Beckerach, Fritts by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Re: Atlantic City and friends (LONG) by <RonSeverin@aol.com> Re: Not for naught, a note for Nate by "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Liturgical Southern Baptist??? by "Bruce Cornely" <email@example.com> Re: PipeChat Digest #3997 - 09/20/03 by "Bruce Cornely" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Not for naught, a note for Nate by "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Re: Organ and other ensemble instruments by "Bruce Cornely" <email@example.com> Re: Great/Positiv balance by "Bruce Cornely" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Liturgical Southern Baptist??? by "David Evangelides" <email@example.com> OFF-TOPIC: preaching, and lectionaries by <firstname.lastname@example.org>
(back) Subject: Re: Howell From: "Gary Black" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:07:15 -0500 HI Gregory, Yes, it is wonderful at St. Luke's. I helped to install the = choir organ there, and have played it too. It sounds wonderful and = really does a great job on all periods of music. I like 19th century = literature and transcriptions which it does well. Another Howell organ = is at St. Ita's in Chicago, Il. It started life as a Wicks and because = of building problems, an overhaul was due which we did.=20 Gary ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gfc234@aol.com=20 To: firstname.lastname@example.org=20 Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 5:13 AM Subject: Howell In a message dated 9/19/2003 10:26:21 PM Central Daylight Time, = email@example.com writes: HI Devon, You should try the Howell organ at the Congragational = Church in DeKalb too. It started life as a Greiss-Miles. We took it out and = re-did everything. The supports that held the entire organ on both sides = of the chancel were collapsing. They had used metal framework that wasn't = strong enough. Have fun. Gary Speaking of Howell, the best kept secret in Northern Illinois is the = Howell organ at St. Luke's Episcopal, Dixon. 4 manuals, an antiphonal = division, a lovely chamade(in the back), 3 tubas-all great, lots of 8' = power, 2 swell oboes, a french horn, english horn,beautiful celestes, a = 16' principal on the great, a 32' reed in the swell. It can breath = fire, and it can make you weap. It's like a Woolsey in the corn fields. = This organ is a real monster and is capable of playing all literature = perfectly. I think the organ is about 80 ranks, in a SMALL church:) The = church is also wonderful, and the accoustics are glorious when empty. = The Illinois people on the list should make it a point to see and play = this organ.=20 Gregory
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3997 - 09/20/03 From: "Peter Rodwell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:37:36 +0200 Quoting Colin Mitchell: > Please don't lump me into the category of European > critic. I wouldn't dream of so lumping you, Colin. I was making a general observation. > There are situations where a big organ is desirable, > and America is the place to go in my experience. Exactly the point I was labouring to make. Peter.
(back) Subject: Anthem Selection Tool From: "David Baker" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:57:37 -0400 I have longed for such a tool, myself. The closest I have come is the National Association of Pastoral Musicians Choral anthem project: http://www.npm.org/Choral_Anthem_Project/ It follows the Roman Catholic lectionary, which is substantially the same in the Episcopal and Lutheran churches. The task, I think, is to work backwards; given a particular reading, what Sunday would that reading occur? I just did a google search for >choir anthem lectionary< The first result was http://www.anthemguide.net/ which looks like it might be an even better resource. Try it out and see! If you find any other resources, let me know. Thanks David Baker
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City and friends (LONG) From: "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:36:39 -0400 > Nate (the apprentice) obviously has respect for the > craftsmen of the past, which is a fine sentiment > worthy of the restorer. >"What music? We're only here for the sound!" Hello chatters, I am but an organ fan turned apprentice. I have little if any = knowledge of musical schools of thought, genres, techniques, and the like. I would describe my organ playing as improvisational, and tinkering. If it was = not for a brief period of organ lessons in the legato finger-crawling style I would be a complete spectator from every point of consideration. Quite simply the Atlantic City organ does move me. Not because of = it's state of desperation, nor it's size or anything else except the sound that pours out of those chambers. (or at least the one that works right now) = I appreciate every organ I cross paths with for its uniqueness. Because of = my lack of knowledge I have no authority to classify one organ or another. = And frankly outside of intellectual or academic reasons I am not concerned too much about it. I really just want to get my hands and feet on it, to understand it. Years ago each organ was created thoughtfully for a = purpose. Years from now after I am pushing up daisies most of the organs in this world will still be pealing forth grand chords, singing sweet solo pieces, and so forth. Who would I be, in the comparative temporality of my life, = to install a brustwerk on a skinner, or place a 26 rank string organ in a beautiful clear flentrop? There are enough organs in this world to fill a forest, and plenty of opportunities to build fine new instruments as well. Certainly there are organs all over that meet everyone's fancy. Therefore = I love to see instruments maintained and preserved for the next generation = of organ lovers. To this unseasoned 26-year old, that huge organ in N.J. sounds = wonderful. It can reduce me to a bawling baby, or make me tap a foot to a catchy = tune. That may be just my opinion, but I fear the day that anything would make = me dislike such a beautiful instrument. Not so I can restore it (though I'd like to), but because it makes music. = -Nate "The nutty apprentice"
(back) Subject: Malotte, Hope-Jones, von Beckerach, Fritts From: "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:44:38 -0400 Tying up a few threads, here. In 1914 a new Robert Hope-Jones "Unit Orchestra" was installed in the Liberty Theatre, Seattle. Maybe a decade later? the youthful Albert Hay Malotte became the house organist there. Forty years after the = installation of the instrument, it was proposed to tear down the building and destroy = the organ. I was in college in Tacoma at the time, and tried to get our = senior class to buy and relocate the organ (III/14) to the open-girdered space above the basketball court in our gymnasium at Pacific Lutheran College = (now Univ.). Could NOT sell such a screwball idea to the class officers, so graduated in 1955 and moved to California. But just as I left, the organ became available for the taking, and my kid brother and some friends drummed up some money, rented a truck, removed = the Hope-Jones, and took it to Tacoma. Organ department head R. Byard Fritts (father of Paul) was just going on a one-year sabbatical, so the organ sat in storage for a year; when Fritts returned, he spent a year installing = it; I suspect Paul was maybe 5 or 6 at the time, and perhaps helped his dad, thus making it his first installation other than their home instrument. Eventually David Dahl (now retired) became head of the organ department. One day some years ago one Rudolf von Beckerath paid a visit to the = campus, and David gave him a guided tour of PLU organs (all three!) including the III/44 Casavant, and then mentioned, "There's one more, the Wurlitzer in = the gym." Rudy wanted to see it. So they went down the hill to the gym. Trying it = out, they discovered that low C of the 32-foot Diaphone (mounted horizontally = in the girderwerk) made only an indistinct gurgle. After repeated trying, the pipe coughed up a basketball, which bounced down to the gym floor, and = then spoke with a satisfying throb which shook the building. Remarked Herr von Beckerath, dryly, "Duss it alvays do dat?" That Wurlitzer, I'm told, is no longer there. It was sold to a Pentecostal church near Spokane. Sic transit gloria. I THINK all the details above are true, but I'd never let truth (or her absence) stand in the way of a good story. Six degrees of separation. Alan
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City and friends (LONG) From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:42:31 EDT Hi Nate: If you like the Atlantic City organ, Get yourself the two books on it for 1/2 price at Organ Historical Society. Offer good til 9-30-03 $25 a piece instead of $45 and $46. Get both and drool. I just got mine. Go to the OHS site and order them. Ron Severin
(back) Subject: Re: Not for naught, a note for Nate From: "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Hello, I'll aim this specifically at Nate the apprentice. I was once taught a very important lesson by a very fine Jewish businessman who had escaped the holocaust and built an astonishing empire. He said to me, "The secret of success is really very simple. You just decide where you are going and take one step at a time; but be sure to make each step go in the right direction and then take each one with confidence". Part of taking the right steps is to be aware of taking the wrong ones, and in that search for truth, it is necessary to consider all around you. So when you say, > Because of my > lack of knowledge I have no authority to classify > one organ or another. And > frankly outside of intellectual or academic reasons > I am not concerned too > much about it. I worry! Knowledge begins with a desire to learn, and it doesn't matter if you re-build, build anew or restore, it is important to understand both the musical thinking and the finer details of the organ-builder's craft. I know organ builders who could shame me as an "expert" on organ matters, and just a few who could shame me as a musician! One of the great things about pipechat and other lists like it, is the wealth and breadth of knowledge available to anyone who can see a screen and move their fingers. So take the opportunity to learn, and don't just become an organ-builder.....become the best! In any event, the people on this list will fall over themselves to demonstrate their knowledge and abilities!! (I mean that in a nice way of course). Regards, Colin Mitchell UK --- Bigaquarium <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> wrote: > I am but an organ fan turned apprentice. I have > little if any knowledge > of musical schools of thought, genres, techniques, > and the like. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Re: Liturgical Southern Baptist??? From: "Bruce Cornely" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:52:40 -0400 Welcome Thurletta, I'm also in a Southern Baptist church, but as organist only. However, as = a "partial-Baptist" or an Evangelical Anglican, I do not think that anthems must related to the Scripture text of the day. Most times this winds up with the service being one-dimensional and if someone's particular need = does not lie in that particular Scripture they are left out. It's happened to = me and it's not fun. There have been times when I had a non-specific = "need" which happened to be struck by a particular hymn or anthem that was not related to the sermon. Especially in the Baptist church, anthems have traditionally been "times = of praise and testimony." Any, and I repeat ANY anthem of praise is appropriate for worship. After all, that's the reason we are there: to WORSHIP GOD. Listening to a sermon is not worship, but rather an opportunity for teaching and elightenment and is, in its own right, important. But worship is MORE important. My approach would be to go back through the anthem library of the church = and read all of the texts, becoming familiar with them. You will probably = find that after you have this familiarity, when the sermon schedule comes out, texts which EXPAND on the sermon (rather than rehash it) will pop into = your head. My experience with intensely thematic services is that they are = predictable and dull. For instance, if you have three Scripture readings, would you read the same selection three times from different translations? Don't think so! The same for hymns and these *^$%# choruses. why sing the = SAME verse over and over and over and over.... it's like teaching a pig to sing.... it wont' work and it annoys the pig! ;-) Good luck. Be traditional Southern Baptist. It's wonderful, and I miss = it terribly. Just like I miss traditional Episcopalian. Everybody's = trying to be like everyone else now; sadly the result is that worship is no = longer unique in many places; it's all varying degrees of the same ole same ole! Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow... Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 Help Some Animals Free: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D308025421 Get paid to shop cheap: http://bdawg.freestoreclub.com/ and http://www.smartmall.biz?717886
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3997 - 09/20/03 From: "Bruce Cornely" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:03:55 -0400 <<Unfortunately, I suppose that your neo-orthodox Baptist preacher is probably not going to allow four scripture passages to b e read each = Sunday (Old Testament, Psalm, Epistle, Gospel), since he considers his agenda more important than God's.>> Randy, I must take issue with your statement above. Southern Baptist worship is traditionally "praise and preaching" and it is not necessary to link the = two together thematically. The purpose of the praise element of worship is = to give the congregation and opportunity to express their love, thanksgiving, and praise to God for the wonderful things God has done in their lives. We realize, at the same time, that things that are not so wonderful do happen. The sermon is to help draw our attention to these things and to find Scriptural help in solving and dealing with out problems. Very few Baptist preachers use ONE Scripture reference for their sermon. Many, many Scripture references are cited through the sermon, which in some = cases can last for thirty to forty-five minutes. I have know several Baptist preachers who could keep my attention the entire time. The only time my attention is tested is toward the close of the sermon when he starts = talking about committment and rededication and I have to decide if it's time to = get back to the console to start playing the "calling hymn" quietely on the celestes!! General anthems of praise and thanksgiving, or anthems with testimonial = type texts, more often than not will underscore something that is contained in the sermon. As an Episcopalian since 1962, I've come to the opinion that the traditionally pitiful preaching in the Episcopal church is closely linked = to the slavish and uncreative use of the lectionary. People using the lectionary usually need to stand up and look outside of the "rut" and see how the lessons relate to the rest of Scripture. Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow... Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 Help Some Animals Free: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D308025421 Get paid to shop cheap: http://bdawg.freestoreclub.com/ and http://www.smartmall.biz?717886
(back) Subject: Re: Not for naught, a note for Nate From: "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:27:41 -0400 Good evening, Thanks for the reply. My communication skills are somewhat crude and I feel badly about = giving the impression that I do not care about the matters quoted in your = message. It is actually far from the truth, I wish to learn all I can. I simply do not wish to use that knowledge as a basis of personal preference, which simply means that I find enjoyment in all things piped. There's a nifty website about a man who built his own 1 rank instrument = from scratch, I'm tickled to death about it. (C: www.sentex.net/~mwandel/organ/organ.html = -Nate "The Apprentice"
(back) Subject: Re: Organ and other ensemble instruments From: "Bruce Cornely" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:36:04 -0400 Josh said: <<Should the the organ be an "accompanying" instrument when playing with orchestras, or should the organ still be in the lead? We tend to hire orchestras or brass 3-4 times a year, and I always encounter the same problem.>> I think that the organ becomes part of the orchestra and should blend and support, filling in harmonic holes, and really should not dominate, except very occasionally just as other instruments dominate occasionally. I do not know what the answer is with brass. I've NEVER EVER EVER been in = a situation in which the brass players were not painfully loud, out of balance, and just too danged loud. I've only been in a few church buildings with a good place for brass players (a nice high balcony); good acoustics are a must. Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow... Unkie... Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 Help Some Animals Free: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D308025421 Get paid to shop cheap: http://bdawg.freestoreclub.com/ and http://www.smartmall.biz?717886
(back) Subject: Re: Great/Positiv balance From: "Bruce Cornely" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:44:20 -0400 <<One of the strangities of this organ is the balance between the Great = and Positiv. >> I made an interesting discovery today while practicing tomorrow's Toccata and Fugue in d-minor (you know whose!!).... The balance between the Great and Positive, with the Positive being the larger sound, creates the effect of having a RuckPositive. I was = amazingly struck by this today for the first time. It works so well. So, like the Gemshorn and Celeste in the Swell (which are in place of strings), and the strange Quintaden on the Great which severly colours the ensemble, neither would have been my choice, but I've learned to love them and find them very useful in their own right. I'd hate to lose them! Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow... Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 Help Some Animals Free: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D308025421 Get paid to shop cheap: http://bdawg.freestoreclub.com/ and http://www.smartmall.biz?717886
(back) Subject: Re: Liturgical Southern Baptist??? From: "David Evangelides" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:47:58 -0600 Well said Bruce! I'm a Presby-Bapti-costal, and was so accustomed to all service music relating to the sermon that it confused me when the worship had a different 'theme' than the sermon. You're right - we can be multi-dimensional in our choice of music, and more people will be blessed where they are in their needs that day. David E Colorado Springs, CO
(back) Subject: OFF-TOPIC: preaching, and lectionaries From: <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:57:17 -0700 Well, it took two of Bruce's favorite topics to bring me out of hiding (grin). (1) Preaching should be ABOLISHED, at least in liturgical churches. If you do the LITURGY with attention and devotion (and ALL the associated music), there's nothing more to say. You've HEARD the Word chanted or read; you've RECEIVED the Word Incarnate in Holy Communion; there's nothing to add. And poor preaching often DISTRACTS from those two experiences. The problem with preaching in NON-liturgical churches is that the success of the entire service hangs on the preacher's ability (or lack of it). You have only to observe the dwindling crowds at the Crystal Cathedral under Dr. Schuller's son to see what I mean. He's not a BAD preacher, but the place was built on his father's force of personality in the pulpit, among other things. Lacking a liturgy to CARRY it, a non-liturgical preaching service can be EXCRUCIATING if the preacher isn't OUTSTANDING, and not EVERYBODY *can* be outstanding. At my one Presbyterian post, the preacher was EXCELLENT, but I kept thinking to myself, "how do they sit THROUGH this EVERY SUNDAY??!!" If you can't make a point in ten minutes TOPS, you're either repeating yourself or falling into error (grin), as an old-time anglo-catholic priest friend of mine used to say. (2) I dislike the "smorgasbord" approach to the Sunday liturgy as much as Bruce dislikes hymn-based organ music and lectionary preaching (chuckle). Yes, there are only SO many "Good Shepherd" hymns you can sing on Good Shepherd Sunday, but when ELSE are you going to sing them? My anthem files are organized not only by season, but by individual Sundays (we used the old one-year lectionary; I haven't tackled organizing my anthems for the three-year lectionary yet, and I doubt if I will, since I'm basically retired from active playing and directing). I have anthems and hymns filed under Lift up your heads - Advent 1 The powers of heaven - Advent 2 Holy Scripture - Advent 2 "Gaudete" - Advent 3 John the Baptist - Advent 4 Name of Jesus / Circumcision - Jan. 1 The Spirit of the Lord - Christmas II Epiphany - Jan. 6 Jesus in the Temple - Epiphany I Spiritual Gifts - Epiphany II John the Baptist (again) - Epiphany II Marriage in Cana - Epiphany III O Lord, I Am Not Worthy - Epiphany IV The Final Harvest - Epiphany V Behold, what manner of love - Epiphany VI The Last Judgment - Epiphany VI The Presentation of Christ in the Temple - Feb. 2 Come, Labour On - Septuagesima The Sower and the Seed - Sexagesima Though I speak with the tongues of men - Quinquagesima Jesus, Son of David - Quinquagesima Blow ye the trumpet in Zion - Ash Wednesday Treasures in Heaven (grin) - Ash Wednesday Now is the accepted time - Lent I Get thee behind me, Satan - Lent I Great is thy faithfulness - Lent II The Holy Eucharist - Lent II Christ shall give thee light - Lent III Blessed is the womb that bare thee - Lent III Jerusalem the golden - Lent IV "Laetare" - Lent IV Feeding the multitude - Lent IV The Holy Eucharist - Lent IV The final sacrifice - Passion Sunday Before Abraham was, I am - Passion Sunday Thy Rebuke hath broken my heart - Palm Sunday The Triduum takes care of itself ... Go to Dark Gethsemane and a Eucharistic motet on Maundy Thursday, nothing save the liturgical texts on Good Friday, and a rousing Easter anthem at the Easter Vigil and on Easter Day. The Five Wounds - Easter I Receive the Holy Ghost - Easter I The witness of Water and Blood - Easter I The Good Shepherd - Easter II A little while and ye shall not see me - Easter III The Comforter will reprove the world of sin - Easter IV We plow the fields and scatter - Easter V (the Rogations) I have overcome the world - Easter V God is gone up - Ascension When the Comforter is come - Sunday after Ascension Come, Holy Ghost - Pentecost I am Alpha and Omega - Trinity Sunday God so loved the world - Trinity Sunday Dives and Lazarus - Trinity I Let us love one another - Trinity I The great supper - Trinity II The Holy Eucharist - Trinity II The ninety and nine - Trinity III, and yes, we sang "The Ninety And Nine" (grin) Mercy - Trinity IV They cast their nets - Trinity V Baptism - Trinity VI Gifts on the altar - Trinity VI Eternal life - Trinity VII Feeding the multitude (again) - Trinity VII The Holy Eucharist - Trinity VII Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord - Trinity VIII Sons of God - Trinity VIII The Passover - Trinity IX The Prodigal Son - Trinity IX Spiritual Gifts - Trinity X Cleansing the Temple - Trinity X Pharisee and Publican - Trinity XI Deaf hear, dumb speak - Trinity XII The God of Abraham - Trinity XIII The Good Samaritan - Trinity XIII Walk in the Spirit - Trinity XIV Cleansing the lepers - Trinity XIV The Cross - Trinity XV Two masters - Trinity XV Seek ye first - Trinity XV At the Name of Jesus - Trinity XVI Raising the dead - Trinity XVI One Lord, one Faith, one Baptism - Triniy XVII He that humbleth himself shall be exalted - Trinity XVII Jesus, Son of David - Trinity XVIII Grieve not the Holy Spirit - Trinity XIX Thy sins be forgiven thee - Trinity XIX Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs - Trinity XX The marriage-supper of the Lamb - Trinity XX The whole armour of God - Trinity XXI Signs and wonders - Trinity XXI Forgiveness - Trinity XXII Citizenship in heaven - Trinity XXIII Caesar and God - Trinity XXIII Raising the dead - Trinity XXIV The LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS - Sunday Next before Advent / Christ the King Loaves and fishes - Sunday Next And the usual Holy Days: Mary, Apostles, Evangelists, Martyrs, Confessors, Virgins, Widows, the dead, the Angels, and anybody we might have left out (grin). After so many years, I only need the catch-phrases to remind me of the anthems, hymns, and organ music that go with the readings. I don't stick SLAVISHLY to it, but it gives me a starting point, rather than re-inventing the wheel Sunday after Sunday and year after year. Cheers, Bud Five Wounds / St. Thomas Sunday - Easter 1 Grieve Not The Holy Spirit Sunday - sometime in Trinitytide; I'm still unpacking Feeding of the Five Thousand Sunday