PipeChat Digest #4002 - Sunday, September 21, 2003
 
Re: Hymn Registration
  by "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Re: Hymn Registration
  by "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4001 - 09/21/03
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
Triduum
  by "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net>
Errors of Terminology
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Builder's rep's approach to building
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Hugeness, Hugicity, Hugiosity, Hugiciousness
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
ACCHO fans
  by "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net>
Re: RSVP
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: RSVP
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Organs
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: Preaching/Lectionaries - request education here
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Triduum
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: RSVP
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Triduum
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
IRC tonight
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Triduum
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Triduum
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
voice question (slightly off topic)
  by "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net>
Re: voice question (slightly off topic)
  by "Mura Kievman" <mura@speakeasy.net>
Re: voice question: VIBRATO
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Re: voice question: VIBRATO
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Anthem selection...
  by "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net>
Re:  OT Preaching and lectionaries
  by "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net>
Re: IRC tonight
  by <ContraReed@aol.com>
Just when you thought it was safe to read the list again . . .
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Hugeness, Hugicity, Hugiosity, Hugiciousness
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Liturgical preaching
  by "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com>
Holy Trinity
  by "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com>
RE: IRC tonight
  by "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Hymn Registration From: "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:39:57 +0100   Dear Mike, Today I was proud of playing 'For the fruits of His creation' - music by Francis Jackson, as our concluding hymn(St. Leonard's Parish Church, = Clent, Worcestershire, G.B, .. Anglican). I used a different manual for the phrases 'God's will be done' in every verse, but based on mf, p, and ff, volumes in the 3 verses. The organ is an 1869 Walker - somewhat limited in stops - but positioned = so that everything is heard clearly.   Harry Grove [a.k.a. musicman]   For further information, I'd be happy for you to visit http://www.clent-worcs.co.uk     -----Original Message----- From: Mike Franch <mike6514@hotmail.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: 19 September 2003 03:33 Subject: Hymn Registration     >Having played various organs throughout the years, I like to sit down and >hit the first general piston to see what it does. > >I usually get a myriad of great, swell, choir and pedal pistons with >couplers. Which brings me to my question: > >How do you set up your general pistons from left to right or from 1 to ? = or >whatever your arrangement is. > >How do you register for everyday hymn playing? Do you have special = settings >for certain hymns?. Do you have a registration that causes great emotion and >pride whenever you use it? Do you change setting in mid verse or between >verses? Which hymn in your church gets everyone practically on their feet >when you play it? I would also like for you to include your denomination >when you respond if its not obvious. > >Mike Franch >in Madison, WI > >_________________________________________________________________ >Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. >https://broadband.msn.com > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Hymn Registration From: "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:42:41 +0100   -----Original Message----- From: Gfc234@aol.com <Gfc234@aol.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: 19 September 2003 04:19 Subject ......(edited). I think it is ESSENTIAL to have a big plenum = sound with pedal reeds ready to go at the touch of a button, the same = goes for a quiet celestes/fonds piston. =20 And for those of us without the (bare) essentials ? =20 Harry Grove =20 [a.k.a. musicman]    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4001 - 09/21/03 From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:51:23 +0100 (BST)   Dear list, The danger of being a list member for a reasonable length of time is that of repeating oneself - see Melisma's delightful post. I may have told this story before, but it is, as are they all, true. I was directing an American Girl's choir and since I wanted to make some specific dynamic and other points clear I insisted on their having pencils. "Make sure you bring your rubbers as well" I said. I was initially puzzled by the outburst of laughter this produced.   Bob Conway wrote "I suspect that your punch line might go down like a lead balloon on this side of the pond. The device you are referring to is known here, in the vernacular, as a "safe", or a "rubber", - I have never heard it called a French Letter!"   John Foss   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : Potage Tournemire Money - Profit and Pay   ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk  
(back) Subject: Triduum From: "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:07:24 -0500 (CDT)   In the Roman Catholic church, the Triduum (Three Days) begins the evening of Maunday Thursday and ends the evening of Easter Sunday. I'll have to dig out my Lutheran and Episcopal books to see if there's any difference.   Liturgically, the days begin the evening before, hence first Vespers and the Vigil Mass.    
(back) Subject: Errors of Terminology From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:26:59 -0400   At 08:51 PM 9/21/03 +0100, John Foss wrote:. >I was directing an American Girl's choir and since I >wanted to make some specific dynamic and other points >clear I insisted on their having pencils. "Make sure >you bring your rubbers as well" I said. I was >initially puzzled by the outburst of laughter this >produced.   John 'et al',   I did precisely the same thing, very soon after I came to Canada in 1968. I was to teach a Primary course on Scientific Photography to "Artsy-Fartsys", and my first class was over 100 students, mostly female.   I suggested that as my knowledge of the Canadian language was not as precise as it might be, it would be as well if they made sure that they = had some rubbers with them to keep their notes understandable to them!   This too was greeted with hoots of puzzling, (to me), laughter, until one =   young lady, - rather indelicately, pointed out my error. I then proceeded to tell = them that we could all learn a foreign language during this class, also!   So much for the Queen's English!   Bob Conway Queen's University at Kingston.    
(back) Subject: Builder's rep's approach to building From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:17:12 -0400   On 9/21/03 6:06 AM, "RMB10@aol.com" <RMB10@aol.com> wrote:   > This is in complete contrast to a builder who is currently very "hot" who= se > rep falt out said our organs are $_ _,___ per rank. That builder also > basically told us what they would build us, without seeing our music prog= ram, > without coming to talk to us in person, etc. Our only contact with him w= as by > phone. Needless to say, I was not impressed. >=20 That=B9s unbeLIEVable! What an extreme turnoff! And he=B9s =B3hot=B2? Oy! (I=B9d love to know who it is, but know better than to ask.) (Of course, I REALIZ= E that that was just that =B3rep.=B2 Maybe he/she won=B9t be with them for long.)   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Hugeness, Hugicity, Hugiosity, Hugiciousness From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:04:10 -0400   On 9/21/03 8:00 AM, "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:   > and the 32ft Diaphone reacting badly with the 16ft Tuba on the = pedals.....the > latter probably one of the loudest reeds in the whole wide world, voiced > flat-out on 20" and capable of ridding the city of pigeons in about 3 = seconds.   Dare I suggest that it's NOT the Tuba? Bear in mind that = non-ornithologist Brit Robert Hope-Jones INVENTED the Diaphone. Not for pipe organs, of course, but for maritime warning systems. Go aboard any ship (military, commercial, recreational, whatever) and go to the chart room (just aft ye bridge), and check whatever is on the chart-table. Clearly marked = DIAPHONE for warning devices on buoys and suchlike. It's NOT (really) an organ = term at all.   Alan    
(back) Subject: ACCHO fans From: "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:43:41 -0400   Hi all,   I just popped by the ACCHOS website and there's a buncha new = back-issues of the Grand Ophecleide Newsletter available for download in PDF format! (C:   = -Nate   "The Apprentice"      
(back) Subject: Re: RSVP From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:00:03 -0400   On 9/21/03 9:11 AM, "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:   > > "Please Sir! Your French Letters have arrived!" > Oh, boy; I thought THAT was a phrase that had long disappeared!   Do they still SAY that in the UK?   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: RSVP From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:08:28 -0400   On 9/21/03 9:28 AM, "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> wrote:   > I have never heard it called a French Letter!   Oh, Bob; you're not so old as you think. Actually, I haven't either, in casual speech; but it IS part of one's education, one knows. >=20 > However, I believe that the French call them English Letters!   I only VAGUELY recall that. I do recall "the French disease" and "the English disease" (I THINK); maybe the same "confusion"? >=20 > And to keep on topic, they ARE used with organs!   True (from what the older boys have told me on the playground). But "safe" and "rubber" were euphemisms of some decades ago; now, in NYC, anyway, everybody just says "condom" and lets it go at that. Euphemisms have becom= e (you should excuse the French) "pass=E9."   Alan    
(back) Subject: Organs From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:18:08 -0400   There was this young man on his wedding night, who suddenly vanished from his bride.   After some considerable period, she called out, "Where are you, - What are =   you doing?'   To which he replied from downstairs, "I'm down here, on the packet it says =   "Carefully stretch over the organ, - we haven't got an organ, but it won't =   even go over the piano!"   Cheers,   Bob    
(back) Subject: Re: Preaching/Lectionaries - request education here From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:29:23 -0400   On 9/21/03 1:21 PM, "Kzimmer0817@aol.com" <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> wrote:   > I "think" Passion and Easter really speak of the same thing - >=20 > No. Most definitely NO. And the church musician will make that VERY CLE= AR. >=20 > unless the Passion refers to Christ's sacrifice >=20 > Yes, certainly. MOST definitely. >=20 > and Easter more specically celebrates the Resurrection. >=20 > Yes, indeed, for sure. Very different event. Very different mood. Very > different music, texts, etc. I=B9ve heard of churches in Georgia (and > California, too, for that matter) that sing Easter songs on Good Friday, = and I > just can=B9t UNDERSTAND it! >=20 > Advent =3D coming of Christ, >=20 > Yes. Three ways: The First Coming (Christmas, anticipated during Advent= ). > The Second Coming, anticipated by the Church Militant now. And his comin= g in > the Eucharist, enjoyed by all of us now. >=20 > I=B9ll try to elaborate a bit, unless someone else does first, which I hope > he/she will. And better than I would/could. >=20 > Keith! I honor and respect HUGELY your desire to understand this stuff > better. You must be a man with a very good head. My praise unto YOU! V= ERY > seriously. =20 >=20 > Alan >=20 >=20      
(back) Subject: Re: Triduum From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:50:56 -0400   On 9/21/03 4:07 PM, "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> wrote:   > In the Roman Catholic church, the Triduum (Three Days) begins the = evening of > Maundy Thursday and ends the evening of Easter Sunday.   Well, I suppose if you mean BEFORE the Mandatum mass, yes; and it ends at the conclusion of the last mass of Easter Day--which I think is what = you're saying.   > I'll have to dig out my Lutheran and Episcopal books to see if there's = any > difference.   I'm betting none. Better NOT be any difference. > > Liturgically, the days begin the evening before, hence first Vespers and > the Vigil Mass.   And Second Vespers, too, when it happens. But yes, of course.   Alan >    
(back) Subject: Re: RSVP From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:04:40 -0400   On 9/21/03 7:08 PM, "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> wrote:   > I do recall "the French disease" and "the > English disease"   Or was it "Spanish" (from Peru) and "English"? I forget. Never caught = it.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Triduum From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:06:11 EDT   Hi Alan:   The Easter Triduum includes Holy Thursday(the last Supper) or institution of the Mass, Good Friday (the Crucifixion), and Holy Saturday = (Ressurection) Blessing the fire, water and the creation story. The Resurection was discovered on the first day of the week (Sunday) but is not part of the triduum which is three days, Thurs. Fri. and Sat.   Ron    
(back) Subject: IRC tonight From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:15:04 -0700   Shall we gather at the 'puter Where bright cyber-fingers trod? Evil Empire notwithstanding, Steve Jobs has the better bod.   (CHORUS)   Yes, we'll gather at the 'puter, The beautiful, the beautiful 'puter! Yes, we'll gather at the 'puter, QWERTY-face'll get you if you nod.   9 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time   (Anonymous)            
(back) Subject: Re: Triduum From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:22:20 -0700   That was always my understanding as well ... of course, in ancient times (and in the Orthodox churches to this day), there IS only ONE Divine Liturgy of Easter ... it starts at midnight and continues until dawn (at least among the Russians ... the Greeks in the US shorten it somewhat). Then everybody takes the New Fire and the Easter Water home, blesses their houses, sleeps, and comes back for a lamb roast and Great Vespers on Easter Day afternoon.   Easter Day didn't displace the Easter Vigil celebration as THE Liturgy of Easter (as Midnight Mass is THE Liturgy of Christmas) until later, when Gentile Christians who HADN'T been observant Jews started celebrating the Resurrection on Sunday, rather than keeping the Jewish Sabbath and continuing to attend the synagogue.   Cheers,   Bud   RonSeverin@aol.com wrote: > Hi Alan: > > The Easter Triduum includes Holy Thursday(the last Supper) or = institution > of the Mass, Good Friday (the Crucifixion), and Holy Saturday = (Ressurection) > Blessing the fire, water and the creation story. The Resurection was > discovered on the first day of the week (Sunday) but is not part of the > triduum > which is three days, Thurs. Fri. and Sat. > > Ron        
(back) Subject: Re: Triduum From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:18:11 -0400   On 9/21/03 8:06 PM, "RonSeverin@aol.com" <RonSeverin@aol.com> wrote:   > The Resurection was > discovered on the first day of the week (Sunday) but is not part of the > triduum > which is three days, Thurs. Fri. and Sat. >=20 Oh, goodness. Now I=B9ve got to work on this some more. Ron is pestering my grey matter yet AGAIN!   Alan    
(back) Subject: voice question (slightly off topic) From: "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:27:56 -0500   My daughter asked me this question and although I have always wondered I don't really know the answer. So this is for all of you that direct the choir as well. Are people born with a natural vibrato in their voice or = is that something that is learned? I took voice lessons and can sing fairly well but have very little vibrato. I have always admired people who have that quality in their voice. (sorry if this is a really dumb question!) Amy    
(back) Subject: Re: voice question (slightly off topic) From: "Mura Kievman" <mura@speakeasy.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:45:00 -0400   At 08:27 PM 9/21/2003, Amy wrote:   >My daughter asked me this question and although I have always wondered I >don't really know the answer. So this is for all of you that direct the >choir as well. Are people born with a natural vibrato in their voice or = is >that something that is learned? I took voice lessons and can sing = fairly >well but have very little vibrato. I have always admired people who have >that quality in their voice. (sorry if this is a really dumb question!)       Well, speaking as a singer ... I remember very well when I was in the = sixth grade listening to a pop or jazz singer on the car radio as my mom was driving me somewhere (I think it was Billie Eckstine of all people) and consciously training myself to sing vibrato. I always had it after that.   The typical boy soprano sound is vibratoless ... maybe that's why I don't like it. Or maybe it's because I'm a female type soprano ...   So my vote anyway is that it is learned. But no one taught it to ME ... I =   learned it to myself.   Mura      
(back) Subject: Re: voice question: VIBRATO From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:52:35 EDT   Vibrato is more a style than a quality. Having said that, it can be a desired sound in voices when the vocal technique is basically a good one. = It seems to give a richer tone, at least to the contemporary ear.   Vibrato, by its very nature, is a fluctuation in pitch. So, sometimes, if =   vibratos are too wide, they can have an adverse effect on intonation. So = choir singers should be taught to support the tone with good breath management, = in order to capitalize on the tone AND stay in tune.   The traditional British style is to have NO vibrato. I think that is a = bit pretentious among American "adult" choirs. BUT, some early styles of = music call for a straighter tone.   As a voice teacher at the collegiate level... I have a rule for my = students. Don't FORCE anything. Allow the voice to do as it should. So, in other words, don't force a vibrato. Simply support the tone with good breath management, have a good focus to your tone, and let it go.   Peace.   Neil Brown Barnegat NJ    
(back) Subject: Re: voice question: VIBRATO From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:09:37 EDT   In a message dated 9/21/2003 8:53:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Innkawgneeto@cs.com writes:   > Simply support the tone with good breath management, have a good focus = to > your tone, and let it go. > >   Will this allow that straight tone that shimmers into the vibrato on held notes? My other exhibits that style and most importantly we understand every = word.   dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Anthem selection... From: "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:55:40 -0400   Thurletta wrote: <Randy, we agree on using lectionary readings that may = not be the one on which the sermon is focused, in fact that is why I was so alarmed. I had always relied on the Psalm, epistle or other reading as a key when I did not have an anthem based on the gospel or chosen "sermon reading." >   I can see that not using the lectionary is causing you some concern; however, it is very important not only as a church musician but as a perpetual student to suspend your own denominational practices and LEARN about the different denomination in which you're working. I have know = of so many people who tried to Lutheranize Baptists, Baptistify = Episcopalians, and Anglicanize Presbyeterians, etc. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. But consider the poor people in the pew who might just want to continue to worship in their own tradition.   Many people cheat themselves out of a very valuable learning experience because they want to teach rather than serve. It is important to teach, but first one must become familiar with the traditions and habits of those whom you are trying to change.   Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow...     Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 Help Some Animals Free: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D308025421 Get paid to shop cheap: http://bdawg.freestoreclub.com/ and http://www.smartmall.biz?717886      
(back) Subject: Re: OT Preaching and lectionaries From: "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:23:47 -0400   Bud wrote: <If you can't make a point in ten minutes TOPS, you're either repeating yourself or falling into error (grin), as an old-time anglo-catholic priest friend of mine used to say.>   As my grandmother used to share with her new Methodist ministers: If you can't strike oil in ten minutes, DON'T BORE FOR TWENTY! ;-)   <<(2) Yes, there are only SO many "Good Shepherd" hymns you can sing on Good Shepherd Sunday, but when ELSE are you going to sing them?>>   hmmmm.... why is that? Is Jesus the Good Shephered ONLY once year??? = (or when someone dies?).     Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow...     Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 Help Some Animals Free: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D308025421 Get paid to shop cheap: http://bdawg.freestoreclub.com/ and http://www.smartmall.biz?717886      
(back) Subject: Re: IRC tonight From: <ContraReed@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:03:47 EDT   In a message dated 9/21/03 8:10:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = quilisma@cox.net writes:   << Shall we gather at the 'puter Where bright cyber-fingers trod? Evil Empire notwithstanding, Steve Jobs has the better bod. (CHORUS) Yes, we'll gather at the 'puter, The beautiful, the beautiful 'puter! Yes, we'll gather at the 'puter, QWERTY-face'll get you if you nod. >>   Somebody has WAY TOO MUCH free time..... (I wonder if this person if retired???)  
(back) Subject: Just when you thought it was safe to read the list again . . . From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:54:06 -0500   I saw Gillian Weir playing with a shimmery gown replete with train tonight!   More later, but she's on her way to NYC and St. Ignatius.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Re: Hugeness, Hugicity, Hugiosity, Hugiciousness From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:48:08 -0700     ----- Original Message ----- From: RMB10@aol.com To: pipechat@pipechat.org To truly hear the "large organ" sound, hitting Tutti and launching into = a piece isn't the way to hear it. Sure, it's loud, but usually loaded = down with couplers and 32' Bombarde, it makes a lot of noise, but it's not = subtle. Most times, a full organ chorus of 16's + reeds and mixtures with = suitable pedal, gives more than enough volume and the chorus is heard = better, not obliterated by stops set for a final chord.   Amen! I once heard a reputable organist give an informal recital on a = 125+ rank Skinner, maybe 6 or 7 pieces. The red Tutti light came on in = every one of them, and it was as inartistic an assault on an audience as = I've ever heard. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't been there.   MAF    
(back) Subject: Liturgical preaching From: "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:05:34 -0400   Welcome back, Bud. I respectfully disagree about preaching in liturgical churches. I was raised Presbyterian, but chose the episcopal church as an adult in large part because of the extraordinary preaching of the Rev. Canon Edward N. West, sometime sub-Dean of The Cathedral (I'm sure you know which one). Later, as a member of St. Thomas Fifth Avenue, I frequently got to hear the Rev. John G.B. Andrew preach. Both of these fine priests knew how to preach directly and to the point, efficiently but distinctly, and their published sermons are a continuing source of inspiration. I think it would be better to say that ordination should not be presumed to equal ability in the preaching department; some clergy, no doubt, don't like to preach and know they aren't good. They shouldn't be forced by custom to do so. A liturgy without preaching would strike me as odd, however.   My two cents. David Baker  
(back) Subject: Holy Trinity From: "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:05:34 -0400   Could not copy the message to the digest, there was no plain text part
(back) Subject: RE: IRC tonight From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:10:45 -0400   I don't know if Steve Jobs has a beteter bod, but he certainly has a lot o= f money which makes his bod immaterial to lots of women=2E=2Elol   Andrew   Original Message: ----------------- From: quilisma@cox=2Enet Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:15:04 -0700 To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: IRC tonight     Shall we gather at the 'puter Where bright cyber-fingers trod? Evil Empire notwithstanding, Steve Jobs has the better bod=2E   (CHORUS)   Yes, we'll gather at the 'puter, The beautiful, the beautiful 'puter! Yes, we'll gather at the 'puter, QWERTY-face'll get you if you nod=2E   9 p=2Em=2E Eastern Daylight Time   (Anonymous)           "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www=2Epipechat=2Eorg List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat=2Eorg Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat=2Eorg       -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E