PipeChat Digest #4004 - Monday, September 22, 2003
 
Re: Voice Question
  by "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: ACCHO fans
  by "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net>
Re: Hugeness, Hugicity, Hugiosity, Hugiciousness
  by "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net>
Good Mornin
  by "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net>
Star Spangled Banner
  by "Mike" <organist@clover.net>
Re: Liturgical preaching
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Naff Registration(s)
  by "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
RE: voice question (slightly off topic)
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: Good Mornin
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: what are the Three Miracles celebrated at Epiphany
  by <MFoxy9795@aol.com>
Re: stop controls
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Memories of a junior organ builder 03
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agunther@cantv.net>
RE: voice question (slightly off topic)
  by "Mark L. Hopper" <mlhopper@msn.com>
RE: voice question (slightly off topic)
  by "Mark L. Hopper" <mlhopper@msn.com>
Re: ACCHO fans
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re: voice question (slightly off topic)
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Good Mornin
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: IRC tonight
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Liturgical preaching
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Voice Question
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Voice Question From: "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:32:19 -0500   Hello, Dennis:   You asked a very good question:   > Why is it that classically-trained singers, whether opera > or lieder or whatever have that dark, thick quality to their > voices which makes understanding the words so difficult... > ...as compared to the "natural" voice of say, (don't shoot > me!) Bing Crosby or Frank Sinatra?   Neither Bing nor Frank ever stood to sing to a crowded concert hall without a microphone and amplification/speaker system.   The traditions of the concert hall, before electronics gave us amplified sound, required the singer to produce a substantial quantity of sound, ...just to be heard.   This is not only for singers, but speakers, too. Charles Haydon Spurgeon regularly spoke to thousands of people in the London church where he presided, ...long before amplification. There is a famous Greek legend about a man who spoke with marbles in his mouth and facing the surf, until he could be heard intelligently above the surf.   The "dark" tone was still in vogue when I studied as a young man, ...embodied completely in the choirs at the Westminster Choir College, ...from which most of our voice teachers came. The Westminster Choir was the premier example of what a set of trained voice could do with all kinds of choral traditions. John Finley Williamson was their leader, and the singers went throughout the world as church musicians.   However, I attribute the ruination of my own voice to trying to make that "dark" tone, when the vocal instrument was not really capable of sustaining it properly.   The voice teachers today seem to be favoring bringing the students into maturity with the voice God gave them, rather than imposing a certain preconceived tonal concept on them.   I remember being absolutely thrilled with the senior recital of a young man with a three-octave voice range. He was a bass, but when the song required high E, F, G, etc., his voice did not break up and fail, but the "natural" sound had been taught to carry upwards in the vocal range so it was clear and bright. His was truly a wonderfully gifted voice, but his teachers helped him develop it so it was not a dark, heavily laden voice. He went on to sing in quite a few opera houses in the world before settling down here in Texas with a wife and family.   F. Richard Burt     ..    
(back) Subject: Re: ACCHO fans From: "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:17:16 -0400   >Nate:   >The URL for the site = is.....................................................................?   Good morning chatters,   Oops! Here's the URL, it's at the bottom of the news page, issue 13 = and up are new.   http://www.acchos.org/html/news.html   = -Nate = "The Apprentice"  
(back) Subject: Re: Hugeness, Hugicity, Hugiosity, Hugiciousness From: "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:20:16 -0400   >Amen! I once heard a reputable organist give an informal recital on a = 125+ rank Skinner, maybe 6 or 7 pieces. The >red Tutti light came on in = every one of them, and it was as inartistic an assault on an audience as = I've ever heard. I >wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't been there.   Good morning again chatters!   Ouch! That'd be like painting by mixing all of the colors on one's = pallet every time. Or cooking with all of the spices every time! (C:   = -Nate = "The Apprentice"  
(back) Subject: Good Mornin From: "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:50:33 -0400   >HI NATE! >HOW ARE YOU? >I REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THE THE AC ORGAN.   Hello again chatters,   Thanks for the kind words! I'm always glad to meet another AC fan. = (C:   Those new editions of the Grand Ophecleide newsletter shed a lot of = light on what's going on right now. Unfortunately all of the news is highly irritating. Cement dust flooding the chambers (including the good = chamber). Workers smashing pipes. Workers carelessly CUTTING wind lines and = throwing them in a heap in the organ shop. And now the left side (all 4 chambers) = of the instrument is completely electrically disabled thanks to the cables being CUT. You know, that hall is so darned big it is really hard to believe that pipes and cables couldn't be re-routed around the chambers.   I thought that these organs were protected as recognized historic instruments... Evidently not. At any rate, this kind of BS is severely dangerous to the cause at hand. None-the-less we will restore the = beastie, whether it be with our checkbooks, or our bare hands. (C:   = -Nate   "The Apprentice"      
(back) Subject: Star Spangled Banner From: "Mike" <organist@clover.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:05:29 -0700   Hi,   Are the variations of John Knowles Payne still in print?   Thanks, Mike        
(back) Subject: Re: Liturgical preaching From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:05:39 EDT   In a message dated 9/22/2003 12:05:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dbaker@lawyers.com writes:   > liturgy without preaching > would strike me as odd, however. > >   it would be a relief in my church---yet another sermon on what we should = do as Christians, followed by, but you know, you are already doing all of = this.     If the main point of your sermon is to tell/urge/cajole us to do = something, then make darn well sure WE ARE NOT ALREADY doing it---the polite = alternative would be to perhaps use the OT lesson(GASP) or just say, I see this this = and this going on here at Hope Lutheran, and this is exactly what we are = supposed to do.   Well, done faithful old farts....Florida needs more Christians like you.   And then sit down.   SO Bud, I am with you on this one. We can skip the sermon once in a = while. Just as we skip Preludes and hymn verses due to timing issues. Er, never mind.   dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Naff Registration(s) From: "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:14:02 +0100   Hi, Bruce; I seem to be specialising in bumpkin-like(*) naffness this week (well, = it's good to specialise in something, these days). What with that hymn being our recessional, the choir facing different ways in different verses, disappearing under arches, round the back of pillars, etc; a slight change in tone, but rather of volume, was intended to give = the congregation some hint of interpretation that might be given to the verses through a change of emphasis.   (*) The Bumpkin reference is to a letter I had published in the Birmingham Post this week bemoaning the lack of Broadband access in the rural areas = of the UK - and which was accompanied with a delightful cartoon purporting to show me using my PC in the middle of a field of sheep (leastwise, I think they're sheep !), and labelled 'Bumpkins don't get Broadband'. Hey-ho. Such is the price of fame (I wonder how many seconds of my 15 = mins. that used up ?)   How did you register the hymn ?   Harry [a.k.a. musicman]   -----Original Message-----( Much Edited) From: Bruce Miles <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: 22 September 2003 08:36 Subject: Re: Hymn Registration     >I think it's prefereable to empahasise the 'Thanks be to God' phrase just >with phrasing. After all, it occurs three times in each verse and the effect >of a registration change each time is a bit - well - naff. >IMHO, I hasten to add. >Bruce Miles >St John's Methodist, Market Weighton (not very) near York.      
(back) Subject: RE: voice question (slightly off topic) From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:33:00 +0800   Some people seem to fall into a natural vibrato but mainly it has to be learned. I have discouraged its use in choirs; there is a danger that blend of voices can be affected and the choir sound like a bunch of soloists. Not sure what is meant by "dark" voices. Sopranos and tenors at least need to use a "head" voice for purity and clarity of tone. Bob Elms. ---- Original Message ---- From: docamy@alltel.net To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: RE: voice question (slightly off topic) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:27:56 -0500   >My daughter asked me this question and although I have always >wondered I >don't really know the answer. So this is for all of you that direct >the >choir as well. Are people born with a natural vibrato in their >voice or is >that something that is learned? I    
(back) Subject: Re: Good Mornin From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:42:29 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   That must be heart-breaking for those who have strived to get the ACCH instrument making music again.   This organ is so famous, has anyone ever thought of a WORLWIDE appeal for funds?   It may be an instrument which is total anathema to everything which I believe about organ design, but it is such a unique period piece and so completely OTT, I for one would contribute.   I just cannot believe that money could not become available from somewhere. If they can preserve the "Enola Gay", big steam locos, NASA hardware and a thousand other curios, surely this organ is worth a place in history?   Get the stars involved. Dolly Parton would love this instrument.....big and up-front!   How many rock-bands would love their keyboard player to be photographed at the console?   Then there are magazines that love this sort of thing, and might pay good money for photographs and a story.   Lastly, can't they sue the builders for neglect?   Oh my!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK         --- Bigaquarium <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> wrote: > > Those new editions of the Grand Ophecleide > newsletter shed a lot of light > on what's going on right now. Unfortunately all of > the news is highly > irritating. Cement dust flooding the chambers > (including the good chamber). > Workers smashing pipes. Workers carelessly CUTTING > wind lines and throwing > them in a heap in the organ shop. And now the left > side (all 4 chambers) of > the instrument is completely electrically disabled > thanks to the cables > being CUT.   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: what are the Three Miracles celebrated at Epiphany From: <MFoxy9795@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:11:39 -0400   In a message dated 9/22/2003 1:17:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, = reedstop@charter.net writes: > Transfiguration in August? In the Lutheran world, this is > the last Sunday > of Epiphany before Lent. > > Jeff   I believe there is a Feast of the Transfiguration, and then another Sunday = in the lectionary at a different time of the year which relates the story = of the Transfiguration.     Merry Foxworth   =B4=A8=A8)) -:=A6:- =B8.=B7=B4 .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4 ..=B7=B4 -:=A6:-   An excerpt from Robert Giddings "Musical Quotes and Anecdotes", published in Longman Pocket Companions: "There let the pealing organ blow, To the full-voiced choir below, In service high, and anthems clear, As may with sweetness, through mine ear, Dissolve me into ecstasies, And bring all Heav'n before mine eyes". John Milton - Il Penseroso (1632).   Open Door Realty Boston, MA 02131 617 469-4888 x207 877 865-1703 toll free http://www.opendoorrlty.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: stop controls From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:13:53 EDT   Hello Bigaquarium@netzero.net,   In reference to your comment:   =E8 Good evening all! Check out the pics of this console!!! =E8 <A HREF=3D"http://www.orgelsite.nl/kerken12/oestringen.htm">http://www.o= rgelsite.nl/kerken12/oestringen.htm</A> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   Interesting. Do you CALL when you need to add more stops?   Victoria    
(back) Subject: Memories of a junior organ builder 03 From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agunther@cantv.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:48:32 -0400   Andres Gunther agunther@cantv.net   A week later my father came and said: "Son, have in mind that aunt = Charlotte will arrive in two weeks; then we'll go on *real* vacation and I dunno = want you fussing around with your invents and messing all up then. And your bedroom must be tiptop!" Oh my, I had forgotten Aunt Charlottes yearly visit from Germany. I used = to give her my bedroom to lodge, and camped in the living room on an = inflatable matress. This always was the thrilling experience of the year; and my aunt always was so happy about my gesture. And now "the Monster" was standing = in the way... this couldn't be, of course. Since my little hobby welder was too weak for a pipe soldering job and = other severe technical and financing inconveniences had shown up lately, I took "The Monster" apart, stored its mayor components in the upper part of the (luckyly very ample) closet and hanged the keyboards on the wall because they didn't fit in. The small parts went into boxes under the bed, the pedalboard (to say, its frame) went to the garden, and a throughly cleanup was done. Father made an inspection two days before aunt Charlotte's arrival. "Is the 'Monster' well secured?", he asked- We won't have your = aunt die from a heart attack when it falls out of the closet at 2,00 a.m.!" - = "Oh no, it's well fitted in", I assured. "And these keyboards, hm?" - "Ojch, I think they look rather symbolic on the wall there, don't they?" I said. "Okay, let them remain symbolic", dad replied with one of his seldom chuckles.   Aunt Charlotte arrived, and the first evening of our "real vacation" I installed myself with a Crime Thriller on the Camping Matress, ready to enjoy a midnight read hour. Inspector Carson was still on his way to the crime scene when my aunt started to scream, and dad brawled: "Andy, come up here this very minute!" When I arrived at my bedroom I frozed. Bloodstains were spattered all over the floor; it seemed the crime scene of the thriller. My poor aunt was sitting on the bed, groaning aloud and holding her right foot with both hands. Blood dropped in quantity from it, and daddy snarled: "Are you = crazy, man?- to keep glass shards on the floor of your bedroom, ha?- what do you think, ha?" Glass shards?- I didn't rememeber to have broken a glass here lately. Mother started to pull out the object of aunt Charlotte's foot. "It isn't = a glass shard, it's a metal scrap", she said. Heavens, it was a key contact, sharp as a razor blade. To this day I cannot figure out how the darned = thing skipped through cleanup, inspection and all, and how I didn't catch it = with *my* foot before. Daddy muttered: "My godness, I wish the boy never would have been dropped by this stupid girl; this way he never would have gotten this crazy idea to build an organ" (Exactly six weeks ago I had overheard Daddy = telling Mom: "At least the boy is doing something constructive instead going along with that stupid girl"...)   On summer vacation 1975 - I was fifteen- I started with my second organ project. I had learned a lot more in Physics, applied for a drafting = course, made extensive resarches in the school library and felt more confident = than ever when I started to make my plans. This time the project was much more ambitious: "It will be a three manual. I will purchase three junk reed organs: One for each division, and make an electronic tone generator for = the pedal 16'", I announced, proudly showing my draftwork to my parents.   (will be ctd) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.        
(back) Subject: RE: voice question (slightly off topic) From: "Mark L. Hopper" <mlhopper@msn.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:30:34 -0400   >My daughter asked me this question and although I have always >wondered I >don't really know the answer. So this is for all of you that direct >the >choir as well. Are people born with a natural vibrato in their >voice or is >that something that is learned? I     I have found in my teaching that vibrancy (vibrato) occurs naturally as a result of all the "physiological and vocal planets lining up" and is an outgrowth of good technique. If you listen carefully the next time you = work with a semi-trained soloist, you'll find that they will often wander into straight tone on individual pitches, particularly those of short note = value, & then back to vibrancy on longer notes or on the first pitch sung after a breath. This "straight tone" is the result of poor pitch-to-pitch = movement and laryngeal tension.    
(back) Subject: RE: voice question (slightly off topic) From: "Mark L. Hopper" <mlhopper@msn.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:35:59 -0400   BIG CAVEAT TO MY LAST POSTING...   I am speaking of solo singing only...choral vibrancy is another matter altogether and largely depends on whichever vocal school you espouse, Westminster, ST. Olaf, etc....   Mark L. Hopper Associate Minister of Music and Organist The First Baptist Church 205 West Winder Street PO Box 75 Henderson, NC 27536 (O) 252-438-3172 (H) 252-492-6774 (F) 252-438-3710 markhopper@ncol.net   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Mark L. Hopper Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 9:31 AM To: PipeChat Subject: RE: voice question (slightly off topic)     >My daughter asked me this question and although I have always >wondered I >don't really know the answer. So this is for all of you that direct >the >choir as well. Are people born with a natural vibrato in their >voice or is >that something that is learned? I     I have found in my teaching that vibrancy (vibrato) occurs naturally as a result of all the "physiological and vocal planets lining up" and is an outgrowth of good technique. If you listen carefully the next time you = work with a semi-trained soloist, you'll find that they will often wander into straight tone on individual pitches, particularly those of short note = value, & then back to vibrancy on longer notes or on the first pitch sung after a breath. This "straight tone" is the result of poor pitch-to-pitch = movement and laryngeal tension.   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: ACCHO fans From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:10:11 -0400   ACCHO Society is www.acchos.org Ophicleide is www.ophicleide.org   -WG     > <RonSeverin@aol.com> wrote: > > Nate: > > The URL for the site > is.....................................................................? > > Ron    
(back) Subject: Re: voice question (slightly off topic) From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:26:52 -0400   On 9/21/03 8:45 PM, "Mura Kievman" <mura@speakeasy.net> wrote:   > At 08:27 PM 9/21/2003, Amy wrote: > >> Are people born with a natural vibrato in their voice or is >> that something that is learned? I took voice lessons and can sing = fairly >> well but have very little vibrato. I have always admired people who = have >> that quality in their voice. > > Well, speaking as a singer ... I remember very well when I was in the = sixth > grade listening to a pop or jazz singer on the car radio as my mom was > driving me somewhere (I think it was Billie Eckstine of all people) and > consciously training myself to sing vibrato. I always had it after = that. > > The typical boy soprano sound is vibratoless ... maybe that's why I = don't > like it. Or maybe it's because I'm a female type soprano ... > Well, I'm not a singer. Have sung in a lot of choirs, all my life. But (one exception) never sang a solo. People had better taste in those days.   My recollection is that "it depends." As I heard it, the greatest choral conductor (in the a cappella world) in American history was F. Melius Christiansen, St. Olaf College, Northfield, Minnesota. He (I'm told) rejected the 19th-century vogue for vibrato, and FORCED his sopranos (especially) to sing "straight-tone." It's a matter of taste whether you agree with that. That taste ruled the roost at least in the Midwest and = Far West from 1920 through the end of that century, I think. Possibly it = still does; I'm out of touch.   But the vibrato-free singing of boy sopranos (whether solo or choral) is = the absolute heavenly chorus, to me. On the radio I've recently heard two = small women's ensembles who sing absolutely straight-tone. One of them, I could have SWORN was boy sopranos. I REALLY, really like it that way. With = men's voices, too, I think.   So (for ME), vibrato may be "natural," or it may be "taught," but I (for = ME) think it's just another excuse for lazy pitch-fidelity. But that's just = my 1930s taste, probably FAR out of date by now.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Good Mornin From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:33:40 -0400   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Good Mornin     > Hello, > > That must be heart-breaking for those who have strived > to get the ACCH instrument making music again. > > This organ is so famous, has anyone ever thought of a > WORLWIDE appeal for funds? > > It may be an instrument which is total anathema to > everything which I believe about organ design, but it > is such a unique period piece and so completely OTT, I > for one would contribute. > <SNIP>   I did not realize that either the German OTT or the St. Louis OTT had anything to do with this Organ. It is certainly not their style. I always thought it was by Midmer-Losh.   Cheers on a gloomy day,   Malcolm      
(back) Subject: Re: IRC tonight From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:33:00 -0400   On 9/21/03 10:03 PM, "ContraReed@aol.com" <ContraReed@aol.com> wrote:   > Somebody has WAY TOO MUCH free time..... (I wonder if this person if > retired???)   Yes, in a manner of speaking.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Liturgical preaching From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:53:50 -0400   On 9/22/03 12:05 AM, "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com> wrote:   > I think it would be better to say that ordination should not be presumed = to > equal ability in the preaching department; some clergy, no doubt, don't = like > to preach and know they aren't good. They shouldn't be forced by custom = to do > so. A liturgy without preaching would strike me as odd, however.   David: I forced myself to conclude that Bud was somewhat tongue-in-cheek for at least some of what he said. He's a good critic of lousy preaching, but a real appreciator of the right kind.   But since you mentioned dear Canon West, I have to tell a story.   September 1966. A Swedish bishop was coming to America to visit St. Augustine's House, the Lutheran/Benedictine monastery in Oxford, Michigan. He had an overnight or two in New York. A few of us got together and arranged to have him celebrate a solemn pontifical mass at Saint Peter's, Lexington Ave. (the old church, then). Saint Peters (which now has = splendid communion silver) had then adequately decent stuff, but not really what = we'd like to have had. So I contacted Canon West and asked if we might borrow = a chalice and paten. Can you spell "gracious"? The man was a prince of the church, and made sure we had a chalice about 14 inches high, studded with the Crown Jewels of somewhere. (Yes, he knew we were Lutherans.)   Such a kindness!!   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Voice Question From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:01:51 -0400   On 9/22/03 12:38 AM, "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> wrote:   > as compared to the "natural" voice of say, (don't shoot me!) Bing Crosby = or > Frank Sinatra?   Bing, yes. Perry, sure. But FRANK?   Alan