PipeChat Digest #4006 - Monday, September 22, 2003
 
Re: Voice Question
  by "Peter Rodwell" <iof@ctv.es>
Re: Atlantic City
  by "Peter Rodwell" <iof@ctv.es>
Re: Atlantic City Organs and the hungry
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Monstrance processions
  by "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com>
Re: Atlantic City
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Triduum & Three Miracles
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Atlantic City
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Disney,... - Oh My!
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Disney organ & the poor
  by "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net>
Re: Good Mornin
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
PS on poverty
  by "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net>
Re:  Bad music .. no music  (bad clergy... NO CLERGY)
  by "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net>
OFF-TOPIC: "protestant" / "THE" topic (grin)
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Atlantic city organ
  by "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net>
Re: Monstrance processions
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Atlantic City Organs and the hungry
  by "Steve Chandler" <stevec@open-tech.com>
Re: Atlantic City
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Good Mornin
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: OFF-TOPIC: "protestant"
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: PS on poverty
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Bad music .. no music  (bad clergy... NO CLERGY)
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Good Mornin
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Voice Question From: "Peter Rodwell" <iof@ctv.es> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:12:30 +0200   I had always assumed (admittedly without investigating the matter) that a singer's vibrato was some sort of automatic effect due to the voice not being able to hold a note exactly but "seeking" around it, i.e., as the singer's brain detected that the note was drifting off key, it made the appropriate adjustment but over-compensated.   Incidentally, why don't two (or more) singers singing in unison celeste like organ pipes?   Peter.  
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City From: "Peter Rodwell" <iof@ctv.es> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:22:13 +0200   If the ACCH organ cannot be saved, how many "normal" organs could be built from all that pipework?   Peter.  
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City Organs and the hungry From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:27:34 EDT   Hi Bud:   I think you hit on something without realizing it. Capitalism is not the culprit nor is Socialism the solution. Sounds like too much government, subsidies, production limits, all socialist solutions by the way. Take from the haves who worked for it, and give it to the have nots. Being out of work is temporary, saving for the future should be a habit. People can be taught to take care of themselves even in adversity. Envy and scapegoating has become a ploy to bring down a viable, workable system such as capitalism, only to substitute one doomed to failure, socialism. Capitalism carries with it incentives to build, socialism incentives to tear down, creating happy poverty for all. Envy describes socialism. There's nothing one can do about illness, but to empoverish a whole world to do it is wrong too. Poverty is caused by poor management, circumstances, social engineering, etc. Yes, there are inequities, but it's not the fault of the capitalist system. Those who reap, sow and those who don't reap don't sow. Corporate greed does need to be addressed, ENRON etc. I think they put themselves out of business because of what they did, and some are going to prison. REMEMBER, You brought this all up.   Now my next question, to keep all this on topic, What has this got to do with raising funds to rebuild an organ or two?   As to your reference to political parties such as the Republicans, have always been for tax breaks, allowing for everyone to keep more of what they earned. That too has nothing to do with raising funds to rebuild an organ or two. I don't know why you referenced that either. If you impoverished everybody who is wealthy, who would create the wealth necessary to create jobs in the first place, and would run the government for less than 12 weeks? Socialism was tried in Russia for 83 years and it simply won't work no matter who tries it. I certainly wouldn't go to a poor guy looking for work,   or food or anything else. Wealth drives the engines, and is the fuel for success.   Humbly submitted,   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Monstrance processions From: "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:29:28 -0400   Regarding:   >> Whereupon he turned, assumed the humeral veil, opened the >> Tabernacle, and deposited the Blessed Sacrament in the monstrance; >> we struck up "Hail Thee, Festival Day" with trumpets blaring, and >> the procession took off round the church. A more fitting end to the >> Easter Mass I cannot imagine, even though it would undoubtedly make >> present-day liturgists' hair stand on end   I love it!!! No false piety, there!!   I disagree with his comment about "the protestant churches", however. The episcopal/anglican church, IMHO, is the original protestant church; everybody else is a "reformed" church, for lack of a better term. That protestant gene is still active - vide its positions on ordination of women and homosexuals.   I feel a thread coming on.   David Baker    
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:34:44 EDT   Peter:   The answer is none. Using existing pipework, so specialized, would have to be melted down to make new pipes. Why even go there or use that as a consideration? It just won't work, and a monumental work destroyed. It simply makes no sense.   Ron    
(back) Subject: Re: Triduum & Three Miracles From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:50:52 -0400   On 9/22/03 1:50 PM, "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> wrote:   > To be as clear as possible, in the Roman Church the Triduum begins with > the Mass of the Lord's Supper, Maunday Thursday evening, and ends Easter > Sunday evening with Vespers.   I don't remember what I've said in the past couple days, but your description accords 100% with the most authoritative ELCA definitions (Philip Pfatteicher, author of both the official books and the nonofficial but authoritative sources). (Citations on request.)   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:03:55 -0700   Except for (possibly) the various antiphonal divisions, probably none, because of the heroic scales, wind-pressures, and voicing of the pipes for that ENORMOUS room.   If Atlantic City doesn't WANT it, they should give it to St. John the Divine in NYC (chuckle).   Cheers,   Bud   Peter Rodwell wrote: > If the ACCH organ cannot be saved, how many "normal" > organs could be built from all that pipework? > > Peter. > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >        
(back) Subject: Re: Disney,... - Oh My! From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:01:17 -0400   On 9/22/03 1:51 PM, "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org> wrote:   > Even better, a feature length video in the vein of "Fantasia" centered = around > the organ. Who knows? It might work!   Hey! Wow! Let's GO with it! (Who knows the right people?)   Alan    
(back) Subject: Disney organ & the poor From: "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:10:18 -0500 (CDT)   TommyLee...great perspective! Let's hope they develop the outreach to get kids into the hall.   Radical shift.   Drawing on scripture to restore Atlantic city is quite a stretch, but the lifestyle comments were sadder; they were equal to any bigotry one could name. Strong words, but I must speak out, even at the risk of being kicked off the list. To compare the poor of the world with some of the slackers who choose to live that way is revolting. And the biggest cheaters of society are the CEO's who have collected huge salaries, and then bankrupted their companies without having to pay back their employees, etc.   Honestly folks, sometimes we need to get a grip. As wonderful as it for churches to have the resources to put in organs with dual temperaments, or huge instruments "just because we can", there is a fine line between what Jesus was talking about when the woman poured expensive perfume on him, the Christ, and being extravagant at the expense of Christ.    
(back) Subject: Re: Good Mornin From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:19:11 -0400   I know a professional "development specialist" (fundraiser) who is on a nickname basis with Trump. She calls him "Skip". Maybe I could put a bug in her ear. Hmmm...   -WG ><RonSeverin@aol.com> wrote: > >Hi Nate: > >What the Atlantic City organs need is a friendly infusion of cash >from a consortium of people like Bill Gates. These are people >who could make a sizeable contribution with out missing it, say >$100 million. Donald Trump right across the street wouldn't miss it >either. It will take people like that to get the job done. It's too big >a job for just one builder. It would give everyone needed work. Big >organs require big ideas, and extremely wealthy people to bank >roll such a project. If we are ever to hear this magnificent organ >again, it will take the above to do it. What we need is to convince >these people or others like them to just do it. > >Suggestion, > >Ron Severin > http://www.nauticom.net  
(back) Subject: PS on poverty From: "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:16:05 -0500 (CDT)   I'm not advocating handouts, but equity.    
(back) Subject: Re: Bad music .. no music (bad clergy... NO CLERGY) From: "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:16:49 -0400   somebody said... <<Here we go again. Worship as performance art. I've been to liturgical services where there has been preaching and no music. Gets right to the heart of worship. Music is not a prerequisite.>>   Worship is corporation adoration of God. It can be spoken or sung. I can worship almost as well reading the texts of Scripture and hymnody, as I can singing it. I prefer to sing, provided the music is good. Sermons are really optional. Actually, I'd prefer to have worship in "song and word" and then a = luncheon with Bible study so that the sermon/teaching can be interactive (and I can keep drinking my coffee).   <<The problem with preaching in NON-liturgical churches is that the = success of the entire service hangs on the preacher's ability (or lack of it). >>   To a great extent (and I've seen this often) the success of the entire service hangs on the CELEBRANTS ability. I've left many Masses wondering if, had it not been in English, I would have know if it was a funeral, a wedding, or an Ordinary Eucharist.   Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow...   Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 Help Some Animals Free: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D308025421 Get paid to shop cheap: http://bdawg.freestoreclub.com/ and http://www.smartmall.biz?717886        
(back) Subject: OFF-TOPIC: "protestant" / "THE" topic (grin) From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:24:58 -0700       David Baker wrote:   > > I disagree with his comment about "the protestant churches", however. > The episcopal/anglican church, IMHO, is the original protestant church;   Um ... correct in ONE sense, but not chronologically. Luther's 95 Theses preceded the 1549 Prayer Book by a few years ... in fact, Henry VIII's title "Defender of the Faith" was bestowed by the Pope BEFORE the English Reformation, for keeping Lutheranism OUT of his realm.   As to "protestant" ... as used by the ANGLICANS, both in the UK, and later in the US when they had to name the newly-separated Church, "protestant" meant "protesting the excesses and errors of the Church of Rome" ... no MORE, no LESS.   It was only LATER that Cranmer turned Zwinglian, and Elizabeth compromised FURTHER to avoid civil war, and the Anglican Church took on its impossibly schizophrenic identity (grin).   The stance of the Tractarians has always been that the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church existed in Britain since Apostolic times ... legend has it that St. Joseph of Arimathea carried the Crown of Thorns to Glastonbury and planted it, where it still blooms on "Old Christmas" (Jan. 6) every year. Less fanciful and probably closer to the truth: Christian Roman soldiers of the British garrison carried the Faith to England.   In any case, there were Christian monks AT Canterbury to GREET St. Augustine when he arrived in A.D. 600.   The Tractarians hold that from A.D. 600 to A.D. 1549 (or thereabouts), the Church in Britain was under the domination/occupation of Rome; in 1549, all that happened was they sent the Apostolic Delegate packing back to Rome and started celebrating Mass in English. Nothing ESSENTIAL changed.   Naming the American Anglican Church "The Protestant EPISCOPAL Church" was a VERY brave thing to do in 1786, as it flew in the face of the Calvinist majority in the US at the time. Protestant (non-Roman), but Episcopal (retaining the Catholic Faith and Bishops in the Apostolic Succession) ... that was a REAL red flag at the time, and there was heated debate at that General Convention about it.   > everybody else is a "reformed" church, for lack of a better term. That > protestant gene is still active - vide its positions on ordination of > women and homosexuals. > > I feel a thread coming on. > > David Baker >   Don't blame the protestants across the board ... there's a VERY toxic stew of Protestant Calvinism/Puritanism and Roman Catholic Jansenism at work here in the US.   It's worthy of note that MOST of Europe, both Protestant and Catholic, CANNOT understand the FIRESTORM about homosexuality that's going on in this country.   Our Calvinist/Puritan roots are self-evident; less obvious is the influence of the Roman Catholic Jansenists ... Spain and Ireland were/are the most infected by the Jansenist heresy; the present pope has canonized the founder of the far, FAR right Spanish secret order, Opus Dei, the most militant of the right wing neo-Jansenist groups. The Irish church has furnished MOST of the US bishops for many years; the flavour of American Roman Catholicism is QUITE different from that of non-English-speaking countries, EXCEPT for Spain.   I happen to be of the opinion that the worldwide Anglican church breaking up into evangelical/exclusive Protestant and affirming/inclusive Catholic isn't necessarily a BAD thing.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic city organ From: "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:24:33 -0400   Bob said: <<Whilst I can understand your sentiments regarding the upkeep of the Atlantic City organs, if there is $100, 000, 000 being made available, I would wish it to be spent on a much more worthy cause.>>   Come on, Bob. It's not like this is the last $100,000,000 in the world. Yes, think of all the poor, hungry people that could be fed with this = money. But, also, think of the poor hungry people in THIS country who would = benefit from this infusion of money into our own economy. Those people would, in turn, be able to donate to help others. But, at the same time, a great treasure of organ building and historical landmark would be preserved for future generations.   This is the essence of stewardship. People need to think about the repercussions of coating their homes with never-ever-need-maintenance siding. Think of all of those people who are being put out of work = because a machine has made this wonderful product. Gee.... the same situation seems to fit for electroid instruthingaments! gosh!!! ;-)     Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow...     Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 Help Some Animals Free: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D308025421 Get paid to shop cheap: http://bdawg.freestoreclub.com/ and http://www.smartmall.biz?717886      
(back) Subject: Re: Monstrance processions From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:29:51 -0400   On 9/22/03 2:29 PM, "David Baker" <dbaker@lawyers.com> wrote:   > The episcopal/anglican church, IMHO, is the original protestant church;   I don't mind that statement. But I'd EXPECT that many Anglicans WOULD.   > everybody else is a "reformed" church, for lack of a better term.   "Everybody else"? That's pretty broad. But you correctly describe it as = "a term"--which, I think, is too loose "a term" to be very useful. I mean, even Rome has gone through several "reformations"--even in just the past millennium, and thus is "reformed." (Well, you DID say "everybody else.")   > That protestant gene is still active - vide its positions on ordination = of > women and homosexuals. > > I feel a thread coming on. > I'd just as soon it didn't. Divisive without productivity. I suspect = that very few of us have not already made up our minds on all that.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City Organs and the hungry From: "Steve Chandler" <stevec@open-tech.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:36:42 -0500   > > >Bud wrote: > >(3) that same grain COULD be used to make gasohol, but the oil cartels >are having none of THAT. We are only JUST discovering how MUCH of our >national energy policy AND our national energy BILL is being written by >greedy corporations like ENRON. > Here in the Midwest there are many with high hopes for Ethanol. I can only tell you it works fine in my car and it doesn't foul groundwater like MBTE.   >It's easy to rail against the "shiftless, lazy poor" on the one hand, >and rail against restoring the Atlantic City organ on the other, but >neither is ENTIRELY accurate. The $11-$20 million it would take to >restore Atlantic City is a drop in the bucket. Try comparing what the >CONTINUING cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could have done to >alleviate poverty instead. THAT'S a more realistic comparison. > I agree with Bud on this. Tens of millions is nothing compared to $87 Billion. The problem is the powers that be aren't interested in pipe organs, but ARE interested in exercising power in the international community. Fortunately the tide seems to have turned with regard to discussion of the tactics used to bully the American people into supporting the folly of war in Iraq.   >It's not just that "the poor need to work hard" to break the cycle of >poverty. There have to be fundamental changes in government and society. > >There are factors at work over which we (the poor) have no control. I've >worked hard all my life ... sometimes two and three jobs simultaneously >... my retirement will consist of Social Security. Period. I've never >managed to save a DIME being a church musician. I HAVE no portfolio, no >rental properties, NOTHING. Yes, I chose to be a church musician, but >the consequences seem very far away at 20 years of age. At 59 years of >age, after two strokes and two heart attacks, they are quite a BIT more >proximate (grin). > > > Well Bud, you're a smart guy and I know you'll find a way to support yourself. Heck, you may just find life more lucrative outside church service despite your health. I wish you well in your endeavors.   The reality of it is that our society is what we choose it to be. If you take a long term perspective we are making progress, we now longer use leaches in medicine and the internet allows instant communication around the globe. Better still the internet fosters communities of common interest such as pipe organs that were far more difficult to build and maintain in the past. It's that kind of community that will be necessary to restore the Atlantic City organ.   Steve Chandler http://www.mp3.com/stevechandler    
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:01:54 -0400   On 9/22/03 3:03 PM, "quilisma@cox.net" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote:   > If Atlantic City doesn't WANT it, they should give it to St. John the > Divine in NYC   Oh, good heavens! Where would you put the congregation?   (But that IS a creative thought!)   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Good Mornin From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:21:55 EDT   Walter:   Thanks for that message. Perhaps "Skip" could be persuaded to help with a project like that. You never know unless you ask. Donald Trump is a busy man, and may not know of the needs, and be perhaps willing. He being in Atlantic City might be able to spearhead that project and enlist others. The wealthy people I have been priveleged to know, are generous, un assuming, and for the most part humble. I've been surprised before.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC: "protestant" From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:20:30 -0400   On 9/22/03 3:24 PM, "quilisma@cox.net" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote: >=20 > David Baker wrote [quoting I can't recall whom]: >>=20 >> I disagree with his comment about "the protestant churches", however. >> The episcopal/anglican church, IMHO, is the original protestant church; >=20 > Um ... correct in ONE sense, but not chronologically. Luther's 95 Theses > preceded the 1549 Prayer Book by a few years ...   (One-third of a CENTURY!)   > in fact, Henry VIII's title "Defender of the Faith" was bestowed by the P= ope > BEFORE the English Reformation, for keeping Lutheranism OUT of his realm.   Well, I had no objection to David's statement, though, for it left both Rom= e and the Lutherans (not to mention the East) OUT of "the protestant church[es]." Anglicanism can be grateful for being influenced by Lutheranism; Mr. Cranmer himself took himself a Lutheran wife. I suspect that without Lutheran influence, Anglicanism would now be part of (or vice versa) Methodism. =20 >=20 > As to "protestant" ... as used by the ANGLICANS, both in the UK, and late= r in > the US when they had to name the newly-separated Church, "protestant" mea= nt > "protesting the excesses and errors of the Church of Rome" ... no MORE, n= o > LESS. >=20 > It was only LATER that Cranmer turned Zwinglian, and Elizabeth compromise= d > FURTHER to avoid civil war, and the Anglican Church took on its impossibl= y > schizophrenic identity (grin).   Somewhere I saw a book on the Elizabethan Settlement, called "The Day England Almost Became Lutheran." I wish I could find it. >=20 <snip>=20   > The Tractarians hold that from A.D. 600 to A.D. 1549 (or thereabouts), th= e > Church in Britain was under the domination/occupation of Rome; in 1549, a= ll > that happened was they sent the Apostolic Delegate packing back to Rome a= nd > started celebrating Mass in English. Nothing ESSENTIAL changed.   In my head I have the year 1534 in England; what's its significance? (As for the posting of the Theses of 1517--not a critical date (pivotal, but no= t formative at all); I'd go with June 25, 1530 for Nativity of Lutheranism=8BPresentation of the Augsburg Confession to Chuck V.) >=20 > Naming the American Anglican Church "The Protestant EPISCOPAL Church" was= a > VERY brave thing to do in 1786, as it flew in the face of the Calvinist > majority in the US at the time. Protestant (non-Roman), but Episcopal > (retaining the Catholic Faith and Bishops in the Apostolic Succession) ..= .. > that was a REAL red flag at the time, and there was heated debate at that > General Convention about it.   And the discussion was about "Episcopal" but not about "Protestant"? >=20 > Our Calvinist/Puritan roots are self-evident; less obvious is the > influence of the Roman Catholic Jansenists ... Spain and Ireland   And France and the Lowlands? I can't remember.   > were/are the most infected by the Jansenist heresy; the present pope has > canonized the founder of the far, FAR right Spanish secret order, Opus > Dei, the most militant of the right wing neo-Jansenist groups.   Pee Ess: David and Tim: I can't help being aware that we're doing a lot o= f theology and ecclesiastical history here--which may be more than a bit astray from the purpose of the list. I appreciate that (meaning both that = I "realize" it and that I "appreciate your permissiveness" about it). But many others may not. I just want to indicate that I will not be the least offended by a "cautionary" from you guys telling us to lay low on it for a while or so. I'm on another list where I can talk about that--but I must say that the intellect on THIS list is more fun than on the other one. I hope that those who DON't care for it will let their opinions be known, tha= t the moderators will be governed by some consensus--if they choose to be.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: PS on poverty From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:23:00 -0400   On 9/22/03 3:16 PM, "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> wrote:   > I'm not advocating handouts, but equity. > I don't know how you get even a little of the latter without a LOT of the former. But economics is not really my field.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Bad music .. no music (bad clergy... NO CLERGY) From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:30:26 -0400   On 9/22/03 3:16 PM, "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> wrote:   > Actually, I'd prefer to have worship in "song and word" and then a = luncheon > with Bible study so that the sermon/teaching can be interactive (and I = can > keep drinking my coffee). > > <<The problem with preaching in NON-liturgical churches is that the = success > of the entire service hangs on the preacher's ability (or lack of it). = >> > > To a great extent (and I've seen this often) the success of the entire > service hangs on the CELEBRANTS ability. I've left many Masses = wondering > if, had it not been in English, I would have know if it was a funeral, a > wedding, or an Ordinary Eucharist.   You talkin' some good sense, Bruce.   (Well, it happens!)   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Good Mornin From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:32:16 -0400   On 9/22/03 3:19 PM, "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> wrote:   > Maybe I could put a bug in her ear. Hmmm...   Couldn't hurt. (Well, depends on the bug.)   Alan