PipeChat Digest #4010 - Tuesday, September 23, 2003
 
Re: Atlantic city, etc.
  by "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net>
RE: PS on poverty  (extremely OT)
  by "Mari" <mreive@tampabay.rr.com>
All Read - Poverty, etc
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: Atlantic city, etc.
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4009 - 09/23/03
  by "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net>
Re: Weir
  by "Bill" <bill.hauser@cox.net>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4009 - 09/23/03
  by "Jeremy.D.Wance-1" <jwance@ou.edu>
Atlantic City High School Organ
  by <RSiegel920@aol.com>
Re: Atlantic City Organs and the hungry
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: PS on poverty  (extremely OT)
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Atlantic City
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: Atlantic city, etc.
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Good Mornin
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re: Good Mornin
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: pre-reformation English organs
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Monstrance processions
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic city, etc. From: "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:41:37 -0400   >Shovel in a low blow and I will say something.<   Good morning chatters.   That's the point. If it were a friendly reminder or suggestion a = private E-mail would have sufficed. Anything else seems to be kind of a = cheap shot given that it was broadcast to everyone - especially = questioning one's character...   At any rate, somehow the job is going to get done down there. I = just hope to hear the organ again before I'm say, in the grave. (that's = not a knock on the ACCHOS by the way they are doing things proper and = have a lot more patience with the folks that own the convention hall = than I'd EVER have) Like I said. It may take a mob of drooling organ = fans to get a one-up on the damage that occurred. A series of visits = could munch away at it bit-by-bit I think. Clean up the organ shop for = space, tray up the ole' pipes, diagram the parts, crack the chests open, = and when there's almost nothing left, vac up every spec of dust in the = chamber. Meanwhile if folks would take responsibility for restoring x = amount of pouch rails, x amount of toe boards, or a primary or = something, that stuff would be done. Then mob the organ, put it back = together, have a production-line pipe cleaning party and rack em up! = Then the money that is available could be reserved for highly skilled = compensation ie: pipe repair and voicing, reservoirs, etc... I know my thoughts are nuts but I'm chomping at the bit to do it. = Besides, after making enough to make me green in the face, I make a mean = pouch and disc valve. (C:   = -Nate = "The up-too-early apprentice"  
(back) Subject: RE: PS on poverty (extremely OT) From: "Mari" <mreive@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:09:20 -0400   Paul, My almost-21 year old son is a volunteer in this programme and I am reall= y proud of him. Mari -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Paul Valtos Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 1:05 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: PS on poverty (extremely OT)     To Bud, Ron et al, First we need to get the kids off the street and under the tutelag= e of caring adults. They are our future in the country. Secondly we need to reach out to those in need and help them with other than money. Whether r= ich or poor, most people feel that giving their stipend to a church or some "official" charity relieves them of responsibility for their brother. I belong to Big Brothers/Big Sisters.There is no shortage of caucasian BB/BS but there is an absence of African Americans who are will= ing to take on a Little Brother/Sister. We're not talking about spending mone= y on a kid but that precious commodity called time. I seems like the old attitude of "I've got mine so you go get yours." Ken Lay on a smaller bas= is. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Myosotis51@aol.com To: pipechat@pipechat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 12:23 AM Subject: Re: PS on poverty (extremely OT)     Hello RonSeverin@aol.com,   In reference to your comment:   =E8 Those who are, drug addicts, and drunks =E8 and people running from =E8 thelaw chose to live this way, =E8 but it's not necessary. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   Ron,   I am very surprised and disappointed that you would take such a hard = and unforgiving line.   Many of the mentally ill justly see "inpatient mental health care" as "incarceration," and wish to keep their independence. They may be too il= l to work, but they do NOT want to be restrained behind locked doors. And, keep in mind, even the VA hospitals are facing serious cuts, and there simply are not enough beds for all those who need it. Shelters are generally used by those who are, and I quote, "drug addicts and drunks," = and those who are mentally ill are afraid to stay in shelters because of this.   Now, IF the disabled veterans choose to live on the streets rather th= an a locked, understaffed ward, can you really blame them?   Victoria (also getting "handouts," as I paid a rather high price to survive cancer)    
(back) Subject: All Read - Poverty, etc From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:26:01 -0500   Folks   We are getting extremely off-topic here and getting into the political arena. It is time to drop this subject and get back to organs which is on-topic for this list.   David -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org mailto:admin@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic city, etc. From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:59:19 -0400   "The Apprentice" says:=20   "I know my thoughts are nuts but I'm chomping at the bit to do it."   Nate,   Your thoughts are anything but 'nuts.' In one way or another, this = approach was used for the Wanamaker Organ. I have forgotten what they = were called, but something like seminars were held at the store, = involving some of the best people in the restoration world. They were = there for some weekends, and I believe, full weeks. I believe the = participants gave their time, but accommodations were supplied, if I = recall correctly, possibly by the Friends of the Wanamaker Organ, or = possibly by the store itself. These were not sit around and listen to = lectures seminars. They were hands on working sessions, and after each = one, the great Organ came that much closer to the goal. It was a great = idea, and it worked.   I am not sure there would yet be interest on the part of these fine = craftspersons for the Atlantic City Organ. Certain things need to be = resolved and worked through before there is much sense touching the = instrument. The main requirement would be, I would think, some real = commitment from the people running the hall that the Organ will be = respected, with constant oversight over contractors and anyone else who = might do harm. Also, there would need to be a commitment that the thing = might be used and actually heard by people, outside of its very = secondary role in the Beauty Pageant and other commercial events. In = other words, that there might be recitals occasionally.=20   I think your kind of talk is right on, and is perhaps something that = ACCHOS could organize. I don't really see any other way the work could = be done, except by these dramatic, short term blitzes, or blintzes, if = Sebastian takes part!   All this comes from someone (me) who has never joined ACCHOS, this to my = shame. That will now change.   Nate, are you able to come to AIO in Atlanta in a couple of weeks?   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bigaquarium=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 6:41 AM Subject: Re: Atlantic city, etc.       At any rate, somehow the job is going to get done down there. I = just hope to hear the organ again before I'm say, in the grave. (that's = not a knock on the ACCHOS by the way they are doing things proper and = have a lot more patience with the folks that own the convention hall = than I'd EVER have) Like I said. It may take a mob of drooling organ = fans to get a one-up on the damage that occurred. A series of visits = could munch away at it bit-by-bit I think. Clean up the organ shop for = space, tray up the ole' pipes, diagram the parts, crack the chests open, = and when there's almost nothing left, vac up every spec of dust in the = chamber. Meanwhile if folks would take responsibility for restoring x = amount of pouch rails, x amount of toe boards, or a primary or = something, that stuff would be done. Then mob the organ, put it back = together, have a production-line pipe cleaning party and rack em up! = Then the money that is available could be reserved for highly skilled = compensation ie: pipe repair and voicing, reservoirs, etc... I know my thoughts are nuts but I'm chomping at the bit to do it. = Besides, after making enough to make me green in the face, I make a mean = pouch and disc valve. (C:   = -Nate = "The up-too-early apprentice"  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4009 - 09/23/03 From: "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:58:07 -0500   >NOBODY wants to look at WHY people turn to drugs ... what is SO bad >about contemporary society that people WANT to poison their bodies, >"turn on and tune out   What about SIN? As long as we live in a sinful world things will never be perfect. Sinful people messing up their lives and the lives of others. Diseases that we have no control over (I am currently fighting cancer). This is a fallen world. Jesus Christ is our only hope. Those who live without this hope are, well, hopeless, and turn to drugs to fill the emptiness. Amy    
(back) Subject: Re: Weir From: "Bill" <bill.hauser@cox.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:10:24 -0500   Stop list here: http://www.pensacolafirstchurch.com/organ_concerts.htm   Concert pics here: http://www.pensacolafirstchurch.com/gillian_weir.htm   All pipe, but for two of the three 32's, I believe.   The newspaper article about this organ last year mentioned that Todd = Wilson and T. Murray would be on the schedule, but that has yet to be seen. Maybe = this next season.      
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4009 - 09/23/03 From: "Jeremy.D.Wance-1" <jwance@ou.edu> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:14:37 -0500   Dear PipeChatters:   I have greatly enjoyed my time on this list over the past several months. = However, I fear that I may have to go back to just Piporg-L because of the = recent trend in topics. Don't get me wrong....All of these discussions = are completely valid. However, not in this forum. I am having to wade = through too many messages that are irrelevant to the stated subject of the = List. I'm not trying to exercise some sort of control on the List = content. The List belongs, so to speak, to all the List members. If you = wish to discuss all manner of topics, go ahead. Some of us just wanna = read about Pipe Organs.   My best to all.... Jeremy Wance   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net> Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 6:58 am Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4009 - 09/23/03   > >NOBODY wants to look at WHY people turn to drugs ... what is SO bad > >about contemporary society that people WANT to poison their bodies, > >"turn on and tune out > > What about SIN? As long as we live in a sinful world things will > never be > perfect. Sinful people messing up their lives and the lives of > others.Diseases that we have no control over (I am currently > fighting cancer). > This is a fallen world. Jesus Christ is our only hope. Those who live > without this hope are, well, hopeless, and turn to drugs to fill the > emptiness. > Amy > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: requests@pipechat.org > > > >      
(back) Subject: Atlantic City High School Organ From: <RSiegel920@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:53:34 EDT   Anyone know the present whereabouts of the Midmer-Losh Atlantic City High School Organ? I understand the High School itself is no longer but also = that the organ was removed prior to the building's demise. thanks Dick Siegel    
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City Organs and the hungry From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:11:30 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   How refreshingly honest of Bud!   The concept of poverty as a self-inflicted problem is one which has always been at the heart of right-wing propoganda.   Having worked in senior finance for aggressively competitive companies, and also worked in fraud investigation for a major bank, I know only too well that "greed" is the most powerful motivator.   Nevertheless, the capitalist system is a discipline. Accountancy is simply a measure of efficiency and return on investment....nothing more and nothing less. Investment requires return on investment, and I have yet to meet a board of directors which thrived on "good works", unless there was a marketing and publicity advantage.   Capitalism has, broadly speaking, encouraged economic growth, development and multi-national trade. It has been an important factor in the reduction of poverty; at home in the economic west and abroad in the developing countries.   Unfortunately, a majority of the world live in areas which only barely sustain life......you can't sell food blenders in rural Afghanistan, after all.   What we see to-day is intense polarisation of capital; largely dominated by USA companies, but also by some of the bigger European, Australian and Canadian companies. That means financial muscle on an unprecendented scale. Financial muscle means political muscle....he who pays the piper etc. Financial muscle means power in the hands of (literally) a few hundred senior bankers around the world.   Yet, whatever muscle and power these people think they exercise, it is nothing but paper money and promises of more paper money.   If business has always worked on differentials, where labour costs and material costs are kept as low as possible, then the threat to-day is the downsizing of incomes in the western world, created by the movement of capital to developing countries.   Put it simple.....I buy a pair of shoes. The leather is bought for a few dimes (pence) in Vietnam, and stitched together by sweat-shop labour (many of them children) who are paid a few grains of rice per shoe. The packaging costs a few more pence. Then the shoes are warehoused until a large truck or two turn up to move them to the next warehouse at the docks. The truck company has to make a profit.   Then the shoes get stored and handled at the docks....the dock storage/handling people have to make a profit.   The the shoes are shipped half way across the world....the shippers have to make a profit.   Then the whole process goes into reverse at the distribution stage....you can work that one out, I'm sure! (We'll be here all day otherwise)   So the lovely new shoes get to the shops, and WE buy them, because we are paid well and can afford it. Sadly, the man who USED to make the shoes now works in the warehouse of the distribution company for a poor wage.   THIS IS GLOBALISATION at work.   However, here comes the sinister bit!   The MONEY goes abroad.....not to the struggling people of Vietnam (for example), but into off-shore companies operating multi-nationally and enjoying all sorts of incentives. By splitting companies up across the globe, these large organisations can avoid taxes, make money evaporate by the use of inter-company loans and high interest rates on them, and, of course, owe no loyalty to anyone other than the shareholders who happen to be the banks who have all the money anyway!!   What is the alternative?   Politicians are minnows in this game.....forget it.   There are only two answers, and I wish it were otherwise.   There could be total collapse of the whole economic system, particularly if oil costs explode as they are likely to do in the next few decades.   Alternatively, there could be war on a vast scale, and those with the REAL power.....guns, ammunition, food resources (etc) will win.   Whatever happens....nothing will ever go back to where it was!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   (What the hell has this got to do with Atlantic City?)     --- quilisma@cox.net wrote: > I think reality lies somewhere between these two > extremes. In > California, at least, "the poor" are more and more > hard-working FAMILIES > who have LOST their jobs because of the economy, and > the continued > concentration of wealth in the upper 1% of the > population.     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: PS on poverty (extremely OT) From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:17:06 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Amen to that!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Paul Valtos <chercapa@enter.net> wrote: > To Bud, Ron et al, > First we need to get the kids off the street > and under the tutelage of caring adults.   > We're not talking about > spending money on a kid but that precious commodity > called time.   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:23:08 -0700 (PDT)   Aha!   Now that's interesting!   I wasn't aware of the downfall of Midmer-Losh, and often wondered what happened.   Just when you thought politics and finance were OFF TOPIC!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- Bill Raty <billious@billraty.com> wrote: > Colin, > > A close friend and co-worker of mine is the great > grandson of > Charles Seibert Losch. He's told me that the > American stock > market crash of 1929 occurred midway thru the > installation. > > Interesting to think that one excess (the stock > market bubble > of the late twenties) led directly or indirectly to > another...     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: RE: Atlantic city, etc. From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:35:45 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Hee hee!   We used to have Jane Parker-Smith in the UK wearing Ostrich feathers and showing a bit of leg at the console. She even had her photo-potrait done by Lord Lichfield (the royal photographer).   She certainly "aroused" interest in many of the opposite sex.   I would like to THINK that her large audiences were there for her stupendous organ performances, but I am reminded of Ivo Pogrelich in his younger days.   Brooding and extremely handsome, Pogorelich had quite a following, which "The Times" commented upon in London.   I cannot quote the article exactly, but it said something like:-   "Ivo Pogorelich now enjoys a loyal following wherever he goes. How strange that they always seem to be the same well to do middle-aged gentlemen who sit in the front rows".   I love it!!   Long may sex appeal make fools of us all.   Perhaps the Dolly Parton idea for Atlantic City wasn't such a bad one after all. I wonder what Mae West would have made of it?   "Sure it's a big organ honey, but can a girl jive to it?"     Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   (PS: --- David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> wrote: > > > >I used to hope every year that one of the finalists > for the Miss > >America contest would be an organist   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Good Mornin From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:42:40 -0400   I'm no accountant, but... Come on - where's that enterprising American spirit? The whole thing was designed, built, and installed in 4 years. We should be able to tear it = apart and put it back together in 10. If we put aside momentarily all the reasons = why you cannot price an organ on a per-rank basis, and assume a generous sum of $20,000 per rank, then one could theoretically build a new 500-rank organ for $10 million. If we contract with an organ builder to restore an = old organ, it is generally assumed that it will cost less than building new, = but of course there are many reasons why this may not be the case. Nevertheless, it seems reasonable to me that the job could be done in 10 years or so for 10 million or so, give or take 50%. Heck, for $20 million, I'll do it = myself, plus donate my services as titulaire for the rest of my life! ;-)   I probably have about as much business sense as Skinner did, but if it can not be done, then someone please tell me why not. Have the projected figures for the planned restoration ever been made public? What does the ACCHOS have to say about all this?   -WG     > "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> wrote: > ...   > One might in fact be looking at something nearer $100,000,000 > for a complete restoration, and even if such a sum could be found it is > difficult to comprehend how the manpower could be found to accomplish it > within any reasonable time, or even within a century or so. I hope I am > wrong about this, but it seems to me that the problem is just too = enormous > for a restoration of the instrument to be feasible any more. > > John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: Good Mornin From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:44:15 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I'm being very vocal to-day....sorry!   However, John Speller is not thinking like a businessman.   You remove all the bits, crate them up, send them to Eastern Europe where they will work for a third of the money. They restore everything and then ship it back.   You use illegal immigrants to do the heavy work and cook the food, and voila....the organ is re-built at a fraction of the original estimate.   Who says globalisation is bad?   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> wrote: > America is rather ahead of Europe in reacting > against the baroque revival, > and though the ACCH instrument may have been out of > fashion in the 1960's, > it is increasingly in fashion again.   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: pre-reformation English organs From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:58:35 -0700 (PDT)   Oh my God!   Bud's just re-written English history.   I shall reply eventually, but for the moment, would just point out that Schulze wasn't EXACTLY post-reformation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Pre-reformation....think France/Dallam etc   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK (wiping away the tears)         --- quilisma@cox.net wrote: > Another point: organ-building in England had to > begin again virtually > from scratch.............. > It > was necessary at the > Restoration to send to Germany for organbuilders > (Schulze, Snetzler), as > the English ones had died or fled to parts unknown.     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Monstrance processions From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:43:58 -0400   On 9/22/03 6:43 PM, "DERREINETOR@aol.com" <DERREINETOR@aol.com> wrote:   > we must remember that not all Pipechatters are Anglicans.   Bill. True, of course. But I=B9m glad for the stimulating conversation of those who are (as well as of those who are not).   I=B9ll get back to you on a couple more points, but hopefully won=B9t belabor them.   Alan