PipeChat Digest #4011 - Tuesday, September 23, 2003
 
Re: Atlantic City Organs, the hungry, politics and economic history
  by "Steve Chandler" <stevec@open-tech.com>
Arghhh
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: Atlantic City High School Organ
  by <Lewwill@aol.com>
Health care for veterans
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: PS on poverty  (extremely OT)
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: PS on poverty
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4009 - 09/23/03
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Atlantic city, etc.
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
ALL READ! - Re: PipeChat Digest #4009 - 09/23/03
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
What is Piporg-L; Top Gun Movie for Organists
  by "Fran Walker" <fwalker@northwestern.edu>
what's on-topic and what's not
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: ALL READ! - Re: PipeChat Digest #4009 - 09/23/03
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: what's on-topic and what's not
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
RE: Atlantic City Organs and the hungry
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Disney Hall Article
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
Memories of a Junior Organ builder 04 (last part)
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agunther@cantv.net>
RE: Disney Hall Article
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Re: what's on-topic and what's not
  by "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@msn.com>
Re: Memories of a Junior Organ builder 04 (last part)
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City Organs, the hungry, politics and economic history From: "Steve Chandler" <stevec@open-tech.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:40:29 -0500   First let me apologize to the list in advance for this post. I couldn't let Ron Severin's OT remarks go unchallenged. Ron I'd be happy to discuss this further off list.   >In response to a post by Bud Clark Ron Severin wrote: > >Hi Bud: > >I think you hit on something without realizing it. Capitalism is not >the culprit nor is Socialism the solution. Sounds like too much >government, subsidies, production limits, all socialist solutions >by the way. Take from the haves who worked for it, and give it >to the have nots. > Nor is Capitalism the solution, the US was an almost purely capitalist society throughout the 19th century. One result was the industrial revolution, another was abject poverty (this was the era of poor houses) and the abuse of the working class that caused Karl Marx (and the likes of Charles Dickens) to dream of a better society. Unfortunately, the solution Marx dreamed up went too far, but was also further corrupted by politicians (Lenin and successors). The problem with your argument is that your world is black and white, reality is a multitude of shades of gray. Capitalism has its flaws just as socialism has flaws.   >Being out of work is temporary, saving for the >future should be a habit. People can be taught to take care of >themselves even in adversity. > Agreed, adversity can breed success in the capable. What about the less capable? What about minorities? History shows that private generosity is insufficient to the problem or we wouldn't have invented a government sponsored solution (flawed as it is).   >Envy and scapegoating has become >a ploy to bring down a viable, workable system such as capitalism, >only to substitute one doomed to failure, socialism. Capitalism >carries with it incentives to build, socialism incentives to tear >down, creating happy poverty for all. > Capitalism also breeds corruption, hence the establishment of the Securities and Exchange Commission in 1933 because corruption of financial markets brought about the Great Depression. There's natural business cycle and there were boom and bust cycles throughout the 19th century. History shows there's no such thing as a Rational Market, but does demonstrate that those with political or financial power will take advantage of their power to further their own ends. Their rising tide did not raise all boats. The Robber Barons of the 19th Century built beautiful mansions in Newport Rhode Island (summer cottages with hundreds of rooms) while children toiled in sweatshops in places like Woonsocket (instead of going to school).   >There's nothing one can do about illness, but to empoverish a >whole world to do it is wrong too. Poverty is caused by poor >management, circumstances, social engineering, etc. Yes, there >are inequities, but it's not the fault of the capitalist system. > YES, IT IS!!!! And this is the fatal flaw of your argument. You've drunk the Koolaid of the Radical Right and have conveniently forgotten the lessons of history. As I said there's no such thing as Rational Markets. The game theory of John Nash (the subject of A Beautiful Mind) was the first chink in that wall, though his theories also suggested a solution, cooperation among competing parties.   >Those >who reap, sow and those who don't reap don't sow. Corporate >greed does need to be addressed, ENRON etc. I think they put >themselves out of business because of what they did, and some >are going to prison. REMEMBER, You brought this all up. > Thanks for proving my case. Don't forget WorldCom (MCI) and there were many others. The reap and sow argument is weak. I completely support empowering entrepreneurs, but in my state the biggest companies pay no sales tax on computer equipment. Why is that????? Because they had the power to push a measure through the legislature, nothing more. Meanwhile the disabled and mentally ill have fewer services available than in other states.   >Now my next question, to keep all this on topic, What has this >got to do with raising funds to rebuild an organ or two? > Good question! I think all this does bear on the question of saving the ACCHO. I don't think they'll be able to come up with sufficient private funds to do the job. The project will limp along until someone comes up with a better use for the space. Then it will be a question of remove it to save it from the wrecking ball or let it fall into oblivion. Which will we choose?   >As to your reference to political parties such as the Republicans, >have always been for tax breaks, allowing for everyone to keep >more of what they earned. That too has nothing to do with raising >funds to rebuild an organ or two. I don't know why you referenced that >either. If you impoverished everybody who is wealthy, who would >create the wealth necessary to create jobs in the first place, and >would run the government for less than 12 weeks? Socialism was >tried in Russia for 83 years and it simply won't work no matter >who tries it. I certainly wouldn't go to a poor guy looking for work, > > > One again you are the victim of ideological blinders. Yes, a form of Socialism was tried in Russia for 83 years and it was a failure. A far better experiment in Socialism has succeeded in Sweden since the 50s. Capitalism and Socialism are NOT mutually exclusive.   First of all I have to laugh when you talk about impoverishing the wealthy. That's an oxymoron of the highest order! If they were truly impoverished they would qualify for the benefits of a socialist society. Warren Buffet supports higher taxes, so does Allen Greenspan. During the past 200 years the people of the US have chosen to build a government that provides some support for the poor, disabled and mentally ill. The fact is supply side economics failed during the Reagan administration to stem federal budget deficits. The Bush administration is again foisting tax cuts for the rich on my children and yours.   The radical Right has a far more pernicious agenda. Bush talk about smaller government, yet he has presided over the establishment of the biggest bureaucracy in US history (the Homeland Security Administration). We have record deficits which if $87 Billion is approved for Iraq could hit $600 Billion next fiscal (starting Oct 1rst). I though Republicans were the party of fiscal responsibility!! However this all fits with their agenda, to starve the beast. Very soon the American people will be asked to choose between services for the poor, disabled, mentally ill and other have nots that as the Bible says we will always have among us, maintain the lower taxes or cut other government programs (military?). Will we be Good Samaritans or not?   There is one other option, inflation. One way to reduce the impact of repaying government debt is to reduce the value of the dollars being repaid. Before choosing that option I'd ask if you really want to reduce the value of the retirement savings of so many hard working Americans? Choosing that option would hardly be being a Good Samaritan. It would also make saving the ACCHO virtually impossible.   Steve Chandler http://www.mp3.com/stevechandler    
(back) Subject: Arghhh From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:04:34 EDT   Nate:   This sounds all too familiar to me. I have rebuilt three organs with the = same problems. I have to ask, where is this organ? There was a fellow, who = shall remain nameless, who was running around the Jersey Shore about 12 years = ago "renovating" organs in this manner. He created a lot of work for me. I = should thank him. If you know the name of the guy who butchered up the organ you = are working on please contact me off list. I'm curious. Oh, and by the way, be = sure to check the wind pressures. Boosting them is a common trick to get the = pitch up to 440.   Cheers:   Alan B   Alan A. Binger Organbuilder Freehold, NJ.      
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City High School Organ From: <Lewwill@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:10:54 EDT   Dear listers   The Midmer-Losh organ from the Atlantic City High School is currently = being installed in the Phoenix, AZ residence of Adrian Phillips, who is an ACHS alumni.   Lew Williams    
(back) Subject: Health care for veterans From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:51:32 -0400   On 9/22/03 11:19 PM, "RonSeverin@aol.com" <RonSeverin@aol.com> wrote:   > Military men have the VA hospitals to go to. In every major city, cemeter= ies > too. They have outpatient care, and inpatient care, mental health care, $= 10. > co-pay on all generic drugs. >=20 Ron, when at Treasure Island I left (after 21 mos., as a draftee) active service (Aug. 1957) they told us: =B3You are NOT veterans. Your are ex-servicemen. You have NO benefits.=B2   Some time since then they changed the rules, and I totally unexpectedly BECAME eligible for VA benefits. A year-ago, co-pay was $2; then it went t= o $7. Then they reviewed my papers, and said that in view of what I=B9d been paying for health care (even though covered by insurance) BEFORE I applied for and got my Veterans=B9 coverage, and how little I=B9d made in the past couple years, my prescriptions are FREE, totally. A fabulous VA medical center is about four minutes from my home. The place is beautiful; the personnel are superb. (Albeit sometimes slow and bureaucratic.) And this is Ye Bronx. =20   So I=B9m a very happy vet, and agree with you.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: PS on poverty (extremely OT) From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:16:00 -0400   On 9/23/03 1:04 AM, "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> wrote:   > I belong to Big Brothers/Big Sisters.There is no shortage of caucasian BB= /BS > but there is an absence of African Americans who are willing to take on a > Little Brother/Sister. We're not talking about spending money on a kid bu= t > that precious commodity called time. I seems like the old attitude of "I'= ve > got mine so you go get yours."   OK, and it=B9s been that way for quite a while. I belong to nothing (well, St. Luke=B9s Church). But even in the sixties I was paying to put a =B3fatherless=B2 black kid from our congregation through a VERY FINE Lutheran high school. And now I contribute heavily to the schooling of a =B3fatherless=B2 Puerto Rican kid in my present congregation; he=B9ll be graduating from a VERY good RC university this year=8Bwith good marks, too. He=B9s getting another thou this coming Sunday. And I have total confidence that LOTS of us do things like that; my cases are only samples, and not ver= y good ones at that.   Alan (preferring private action over federal)    
(back) Subject: Re: PS on poverty From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:22:26 -0400   On 9/23/03 1:48 AM, "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> wrote:   > that your CAP LOCK key can't help but activate on average about every > 10 words. You really should check this out with your local dealer.   On Bud's keyboard, that key says "SFZ"; his "local dealer" can't figure = out WHAT to do with that.   > [Griesbacher's] Fant & Fugue in f# might be interesting, nicht war?   And for a cheap giggle, it's not "war" but "wahr" (n'est pas?). Down with "war"!   Alan (out of character this noon)    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4009 - 09/23/03 From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:55:48 -0400   On 9/23/03 8:14 AM, "Jeremy.D.Wance-1" <jwance@ou.edu> wrote:   > I am having to wade through too many messages that are irrelevant to the > stated subject of the List. I'm not trying to exercise some sort of = control > on the List content. The List belongs, so to speak, to all the List = members. > If you wish to discuss all manner of topics, go ahead. Some of us just = wanna > read about Pipe Organs.   Jeremy, I hear ya. And I'm a major offender. But hang on for another ten days to two weeks. This has been quite untypical of us. But give it a = few more days; I think it's about done for, now.   Alan www.stlukesnyc.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic city, etc. From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:05:09 -0400   On 9/23/03 9:35 AM, "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:   > Perhaps the Dolly Parton idea for Atlantic City wasn't such a bad one = after > all. I wonder what Mae West would have made of it? > > "Sure it's a big organ honey, but can a girl jive to it?" > Colin knows more about Yankee culture than is good for him.   Alan    
(back) Subject: ALL READ! - Re: PipeChat Digest #4009 - 09/23/03 From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:13:03 -0500   > >Jeremy, I hear ya. And I'm a major offender. But hang on for another = ten >days to two weeks. This has been quite untypical of us. But give it a = few >more days; I think it's about done for, now.   As Administrator I say it is done NOW! Please, let us get back to discussing organs not politics which are VERY OFF-TOPIC   David -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org mailto:admin@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: What is Piporg-L; Top Gun Movie for Organists From: "Fran Walker" <fwalker@northwestern.edu> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:10:55 -0500   What is "Piporg-L"? A different organ chat group, or a web site one can access? (Re: "I have greatly enjoyed my time on this list over the past =   several months. However, I fear that I may have to go back to just Piporg-L because of the recent trend in topics. Don't get me wrong..")   Also, perhaps another way to advance the pipe organ would be a neat movie including pipe organs/organists. "Top Gun" inspired many recruits for = the Air Force. (Re: David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> "I used to hope every year that one of the finalists for the Miss America contest would be =   an organist...") -   Fran Walker (fwalker@northwestern.edu) Organist, North Shore United Methodist Church Glencoe, IL 847-835-1227 http://www.gbgm-umc.org/northshoreumc/     Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4009 - 09/23/03 From: "Jeremy.D.Wance-1" <jwance@ou.edu> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:14:37 -0500   Dear PipeChatters:   I have greatly enjoyed my time on this list over the past several months. However, I fear that I may have to go back to just Piporg-L because of the recent trend in topics. Don't get me wrong....All of these =   discussions are completely valid. However, not in this forum. I am = having to wade through too many messages that are irrelevant to the stated = subject of the List. I'm not trying to exercise some sort of control on the List content. The List belongs, so to speak, to all the List members. If you wish to discuss all manner of topics, go ahead. Some of us just wanna = read about Pipe Organs.   My best to all....     ************************************************** Fran Walker (fwalker@northwestern.edu) CMS-EMS (Center for Mathematical Studies in Economics & Management Science) Northwestern University Phone: 847-491-3527; Fax: 847-491-2530 2001 Sheridan Road, Rm. 580 Evanston, IL 60208-2014 http://www.kellogg.nwu.edu/research/math **************************************************      
(back) Subject: what's on-topic and what's not From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:30:27 -0700   David has been very even-handed about this (unlike some other list-owners), and I thank him for that.   But ... I would like to point out something: those of us who make our living in the "decorative arts" (and sadly, church music and organ-building fall into that category) ARE particularly vulnerable to every wind of economic OR social change.   For example, my pipe organ project at St. Matthew's crashed and burned over three things: the continued economic downturn, and the firestorm following the Supreme Court sodomy decision and the ratification of Bishop-Elect Robinson's election by the Episcopal General Convention.   Now, the first is rational, to a certain extent, though there were a dozen parishioners who were wealthy enough that the downturn didn't affect them.   The second and third weren't ... the rector and a couple of individuals on the organ committee were simply lashing out ... the organ was Bud's pet project, so cancel the organ and force Bud to resign and feel all better about striking a blow for ... what? Heterosexuality?   Organists in the Episcopal dioceses who voted "no" on Bishop-Elect Robinson are in TERROR of an anti-gay witch-hunt. At least one organist in the Diocese of Ft. Worth Texas has ALREADY lost his job as a result.   Likewise RC organists, following the latests "blasts" from the Vatican. In one highly-publicized case, a long-time RC choirmaster DID lose his job. The parish gave him the choice of repudiating his long-time partner, or being fired.   I understand the frustration of those who just want to talk about organs, and who are sick of hearing about politics and gay rights. I'M sick of it too ... I've been in the trenches for 30+ years now.   But I get EQUALLY frustrated when people don't at least acknowledge that we're ALL affected by these things.   You don't have to be gay to be fired on "suspicion" of being gay. My successor at All Saints' San Diego was there for EIGHTEEN YEARS; the rector suddenly decided she was a lesbian (she wasn't) and she was out the door. To her credit, she took the church AND the diocese to court and won a handsome settlement.   To drag this back SQUARELY on-topic (grin) ... BECAUSE of such antics on the part of churches, AND because of the ABYSMAL working conditions and salaries most of us endure, I think the calls for a professional TRADE UNION are ENTIRELY justified.   Flame away! (grin)   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: ALL READ! - Re: PipeChat Digest #4009 - 09/23/03 From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:37:09 -0700   "No man is an island ... Ask not for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee." (John Donne)   "When they came for me, there was no one left to speak up." (Pastor Martin Niemoller)   Bud   Administrator wrote: >> >> Jeremy, I hear ya. And I'm a major offender. But hang on for another >> ten >> days to two weeks. This has been quite untypical of us. But give it >> a few >> more days; I think it's about done for, now. > > > As Administrator I say it is done NOW! Please, let us get back to > discussing organs not politics which are VERY OFF-TOPIC > > David        
(back) Subject: Re: what's on-topic and what's not From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:40:12 -0400   On 9/23/03 1:30 PM, "quilisma@cox.net" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote:   > David has been very even-handed about this (unlike some other = list-owners), > and I thank him for that. > Indeed, he's been more than generous about it. And I thank him too.   Alan    
(back) Subject: RE: Atlantic City Organs and the hungry From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:11:57 -0400   Colin Mitchell writes:   > The leather is bought for a few dimes (pence) in Vietnam, and stitched = together by sweat-shop labour (many of them children) who are paid a few grains of rice per shoe.   As one of my heroes, E.B. Pusey, said about 150 years ago, "Full often = the very clothes we wear are, while they are made, moistened by the = tears of the poor."   I'm afraid that a few members here have been brainwashed. That's the = only explanation I can imagine for some of the sentiments expressed by a = good person probably clinging as precariously to the shrinking middle = class and eying the abyss of poverty and homelessness-- only a few = misfortunes away-- as warily as most of us.   I'm a recovering child of Joe McCarthy country who was a rock-ribbed = Republican until the 1990s. But now I predict that as soon as the smoke = clears Dubya will go down in history as the worst President of the U.S. = in at least 100 years, and not merely for ineptitude but for deceit and = malice aforethought. In lieu of a longer reading list, I'd just like to = suggest two Web sites:   www.anglocatholicsocialism.org (see especially the section "Traditional = values")   http://tabletalk.salon.com=20   Go to the section "White House" and see especially the thread "High = crimes and misdemeanors - the Bush administration", in which various = (people are pulling together citations and excerpts from articles from a = variety of sources on a variety of issues). The Veterans Administration situation is covered, among many other = issues. As Bud says, Bush poses as a great friend of our soldiers and = sailors. He might fool civilians, but those actually wearing the shoes = know better.          
(back) Subject: Disney Hall Article From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:01:28 -0400   There's an interesting and thoughtful piece about the Disney Hall by Paul = Goldberger in The New Yorker, which can be accessed at = http://www.newyorker.com/critics/skyline/?030929crsk_skyline   It is about the architecture and not the organ, although the organ is = mentioned in passing.   DudelK in DC  
(back) Subject: Memories of a Junior Organ builder 04 (last part) From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agunther@cantv.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:49:15 -0400   Andres Gunther agunther@cantv.net   This time, Mom wasn't impressed at all: "What, another organ project?- you didn't finish the first one! And, by the way, it's still wasting space in the closet!". "Nono, I will use the material from the first for this second one".- "Aha. But this organ is a lot bigger, hencefore messy, and you'll assemble it in the house only over my own dead body, I tell you!" - Father remarked: "And what will catch aunt Charlotte in her foot this time? - a nice, rusty two inch long wood screw perhaps?".- "No, I will build a barn = in the garden and have my workshop there".- "Hark, hark", my dad said. "Can = yo tell me please who gave you the permission to build a barn in *my* garden, hm? And what will you do to get the money for all this... bank robbery? = And tell me further: where can you get three junk reed organs from?- as far as = I know they're not for sale just around the corner!".- "And, if you intend = to have me again running thru Caracas the whole vacation picking up junk from workshops and abandoned houses you're asking the wrong person", mom concluded (since dad couldn't drive she was our "family chauffeuse").   This time my parents remained hard nevertheless my pleadings and promises. The debate went on for several days however, and since I become extremely stubborn when it comes to achieve a goal concerning organs and related projects, things started to heat up and a serious breaking of the Fourth Commandment was at the verge. Fortunatedly a water pipe broke, cooling = down the altered spirits just on time and drenching the project because the plumber found out that the pipe system in our townhouse was completely corroded and a throughly remodelling was due. Two fortunate things more happened soon after: The organist of our parish went on a trip to Europe and I was hired to play the afternoon masses for three months; and Mr. Lima, the handyman in charge of the remodellation = just had lost his helper and was very glad when daddy asked him to hire me for the job. "This way the boy will forget his crazy vacation projects", he said.   Well, I learned a lot from Mr. Lima concerning working methods and organisation, structures, masonry and much more, and earned my first "big money" as Handyman's Helper from 7,30 am to 4,30 pm and in the parish = church from 5,00 Pm to 6,30 p.m. plus weddings. This was the proverbial "thrill that comes once in a lifetime" for me, and when I went back to school in October I was hooked on more than ever to my profession. In Spring 1976 I announced a comeback to my organ building plans for summer- now that I had saved enough money for it. Since I was minor of age my father was in charge of my financial affairs, however. When Easter was over he took all the money I had earned and purchased the Conn Artist 721 I still use for practicing. His conditio = sine qua non was: "You must get rid of the 'Monster', the useless keyboards and all these boxes with junk there under your bed; and promise me to forget once for all your crazy projects". This way, my opus 01 got lost meanwhile my opus 02 remained on the paper... it got lost too in a cleanup some = years later.   "Yes, yes", said professor Miguel Castillo Didier when I told him this history in 1983. "When I was fourteen I started a similar organ project... the windchest. A flat wooden box with lots of borings- it never worked of course and laid around for several years. My mom called it 'The Coffin'..."   Years have gone by. We are active at the Lord's vineyard: me as Tech, and Miguel in organ history research (his practice organ in Chile is a petit Jean Bourgarel). My vacation literature are no crime thrillers anymore. In the late eighties I got a lovely girlfriend, now my wife. My parents died in = the early nineties just when I was finishing my first "real" organ assembly. = But I never stopped dreaming, although right now I have the knowledge and = skills to keep my dreams realistic and achieve them...   THE END    
(back) Subject: RE: Disney Hall Article From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:42:51 -0400   DudelK provides:   > There's an interesting and thoughtful piece about the Disney Hall by = Paul Goldberger in The New Yorker, which can be accessed at = http://www.newyorker.com/critics/skyline/?030929crsk_skyline   Thanks for the citation!   I agree that the building on the whole looks exciting, and want to = believe that Mr. Goldberger is correct; but merely wonder how well the = organ's facade will survive the inevitable swings of the pendulum of = taste. Although I think that I'm a romanticist at heart, I'm not = thrilled by the idea that romanticism is asymptotic to entropy, even = coming as a criticism from classicists-- let alone from those who claim = to admire the romantic themselves. We might wonder what Mr. Goldberger = thinks of Robert Pattison's celebratory thesis in _The Triumph of = Vulgarity: rock music in the mirror of romanticism_ (Oxford University = Press, 1987). Perhaps these two critics are on the same wavelength. =20      
(back) Subject: Re: what's on-topic and what's not From: "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@msn.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:03:55 -0500   Could not copy the message to the digest, there was no plain text part
(back) Subject: Re: Memories of a Junior Organ builder 04 (last part) From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:13:06 -0400   On 9/23/03 3:49 PM, "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agunther@cantv.net> wrote:   > But I never stopped dreaming, although right now I have the knowledge and > skills to keep my dreams realistic and achieve them...   > THE END. =20   NOT acceptable, Andr=E9s. It is NOT "the end." It may be barely the beginning. (I'm going to get back to you on this, off list.)   Alan