PipeChat Digest #4021 - Friday, September 26, 2003
 
RE: AC Ideas
  by "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com>
heels & toes
  by <Hell-Felix@t-online.de>
Re: Piporg-L; Organ recruits
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Wireless consoles
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Organ Clearing House
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Organ Clearing House
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: live 365
  by "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net>
Re: Wireless consoles
  by "Dick Meckstroth" <support@opensystemsorgans.com>
Re: Dedication of the Garland Organ, FUMC, Wichita Falls, Texas
  by <Pologaptommy@aol.com>
Re: Dedication of the Garland Organ, FUMC, Wichita Falls, Texas
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Wicks Airplanes
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: More happy topics.A=3D440
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: heels & toes
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: AC Ideas
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: Theatre Organist
  by "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>
IRC tonight
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Wireless Relays WAS: Re: AC Ideas
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: Wicks & Hammond
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re: Wicks & Hammond
  by "Brent Johnson" <brentmj@swbell.net>
Re: Wireless Relays WAS: Re: AC Ideas
  by "Vern Jones" <soundres@foothill.net>
 

(back) Subject: RE: AC Ideas From: "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:25:23 -0400   Correct me if I'm wrong --   I seem to remember seeing something about a Peterson Control System = (relay) that connected the console to the pipe work with a single piece of CAT-5 computer cable -- (roughly .19 per foot here) =3D- I work in the computer industry and still don't put a lot of faith in the wireless technologies = -- give me a hard wired connection for reliability.   Tom Hoehn, Organist Roaring 20's Pizza & Pipes, Ellenton, FL (substitute - 4/42 Wurlitzer) First United Methodist Church, Clearwater, FL (4/9?- = Rodgers/Ruffati/Wicks) CFTOS/Manasota/OATOS/HiloBay/CIC-ATOS/VotS-ATOS/DTOS/AGO http://theatreorgans.com/tomhoehn -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of RonSeverin@aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 11:50 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: AC Ideas     Hi Mike:   Peterson has something in the works regarding a wireless playing action. As of last year, they were testing it on some extant organs. The effective range is less than 400 feet from the console to the source but in most places more than adequate. In ACCH the distances are greater. It would sure simplify things there, and save 137,000 miles of stranded color coded cable. The new codes would require removing the old cotton/wax covered wire used at the time. Can you imagine belling out 137,000 miles of cotton/wax wire cable. One or more of the relay rooms has been put out of commission and used for the new seating. Many of the old relays were beyond repair in the 1946 flooding so it might be wise to go with the modern micro relays and fiber optic cables. The original piston settings were set in a location far away from the console using trippers. It would be nice to have several memories settable at the console, rather than making notes and setting them on remote boards. Purists probably wouldn't like this, but it does make perfectly good sense. Nostalgia sometimes costs more, than common sense, and in this case a lot more. Perhaps a digital sample of "PLUSH" would work for these folks on each piston. :) Can you imagine voicing capabilities for = "PLUSH"? How about "PLUSH" in stereo? Works for me.   On the wireless applications, I'm not sure how physical obstructions affect the performance, but I do think it has great promise.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: heels & toes From: <Hell-Felix@t-online.de> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:28:48 +0200   Dear listmembers and friends,   while clearing my mailbox I saw that the "heels & toes" discussion was on once again some time ago.   Assuming that this is still of interest (just to let you know my point of view), I almost exlusively use toes in baroque literature. I think, using toes is in favor of articulation, control, and precision. Even in the entrance pedal run of the BWV 532. Personally, I believe that this particular pedal scale was literally composed to be played with all toes. There's no need of "sneaking in" a heel here and there. And, as another example, already in 1997, long before I recorded the TAF in C by J.S. Bach, I "rebuilt" the whole pedal part (especially the solo in the Toccata), using all toes. So, what you hear on that CD is all toes.   For what it is worth...   Felix Hell B.M. Candidate The Curtis Institute of Music   --            
(back) Subject: Re: Piporg-L; Organ recruits From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:29:25 -0700 (PDT)   Mmmmm,   Now we know what discerning tastes organists have!!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK (Doing the batty bat, the batty bat, the batty bat)     --- Gfc234@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/25/2003 1:32:13 PM Central > Daylight Time, > mike6514@hotmail.com writes: > "The Count" > on Sesame Street. Okay, now for the intellects in > the group: can you guess > the voice that is played on the pipes"?   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Wireless consoles From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:41:19 EDT   If a wireless console ever had "interference" issues, like wireless mics = have occasionally, we would be in BIG trouble. Just imagine the cacophony...    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Clearing House From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:57:55 EDT   In a message dated 9/26/2003 4:14:19 PM Central Daylight Time, acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes: He's sending me more info next week, and I think I should put him in touch =   with OCH. Other than that, is there more I should do? Rather then giving it to the OCH, I would recommend donating it to a university or struggling church. He is a philanthropist, right??? He = should get it appraised, donate it, then get a monster tax write off. That way, it = would eliminate the middle man, keep Uncle Sam out of his pocket, directly = benefit a non-for profit organization, give an independent organ builder work, and = provide the joy, inspiration and pride to its recipient that only a fine historic organ is capable of producing. Maybe our high school colleague could use = this instrument for his school-what an opportunity!    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Clearing House From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:01:47 -0400   Organ Clearing Househttp://www.organclearinghouse.com/ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Freed=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 5:13 PM Subject: Organ Clearing House     I never thought I'd ever need to know about them, but the time has = come.   Got a call from a friend of a friend. Real estate fellow in Manhattan = and Ithaca (home of Cornell, etc.). He recently bought a (the?) Masonic = Temple in Ithaca, and may turn it into condominiums. It contains a pipe = organ (apparently 2 manuals, xx stops, c. 1924ish. More details coming = on maybe Monday. He's not personally interested in the instrument as a = musical instrument. He IS reputed to be a fine person, even a bit of a = philanthropist. He feels it should be removed, "fixed" if it needs it, = and find a new home in a church or something. (It DOES work; he's heard = it.)   He's sending me more info next week, and I think I should put him in = touch with OCH. Other than that, is there more I should do?   Who can supply OCH addresses/phones/faxes/e-mail/website, etc.?   Thanks   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: live 365 From: "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:14:27 -0500   Got it, thanks. I think it was a log in problem. Amy  
(back) Subject: Re: Wireless consoles From: "Dick Meckstroth" <support@opensystemsorgans.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:23:12 -0400   Off the top of my head, I can think of only two reasonable ways to connect = a console to a chest nowadays: trackers and MIDI over spread-spectrum = wireless.   MIDI - or any other protocol to turn notes on and off - requires very low bandwidth, so it's a cinch. The one thing you'd want to keep in mind is = that while the cheapest wireless stuff you can get at Radio Shack would work perfectly well, you'll want to keep the choirboys from sneaking in a = keyboard and hacking the posaune in the middle of next week's processional. So use =   something secure. It's still cheap, and it sure beats pulling cable. = We're looking into it now for emergency telephones.   For what it's worth, this approach would offer the possibility of building = a tiny portable controller that could fit into the handle of your bread = knife, so you could tune solo while hanging upside down over the great mixture.   This would also give you everything you'd need to bring the Internet to = your console. Then churches could act like radio stations and hire one = organist to play simultaneous services all over the world. Maybe that's not such a = good idea. Think I'll quit for the weekend.   Dick    
(back) Subject: Re: Dedication of the Garland Organ, FUMC, Wichita Falls, Texas From: <Pologaptommy@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:30:32 EDT   I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but no, the world does NOT have = another full length 64' reed. It is in fact only two notes into the 64' Octave, = but from A down is a resultant. No one really knows WHY they decided to go = two notes down into the 64' octave, but I bet space was an issue. Thanks, Josh White    
(back) Subject: Re: Dedication of the Garland Organ, FUMC, Wichita Falls, Texas From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:38:12 EDT   In a message dated 9/26/2003 6:31:51 PM Central Daylight Time, Pologaptommy@aol.com writes: two notes into the 64' Octave, but from A down is a resultant. No one = really knows WHY they decided to go two notes down into the 64' octave, but I bet =   space was an issue. Thanks, Josh White Could be for the Franck, bach, and dupre works in b. Maybe the resultant becomes convincing at A.   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Wicks Airplanes From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:43:08 -0500     Gary asked: "Walter, They build airplane parts?"   They sure do! They were building complete ultralights some years ago, and maybe still do. Their aircraft division is a separate building across the street from the main factory.   When Wicks says they do it all, I believe they really do--winding their = own magnets, pouring their own pipe metal, storing thousands of board feet of lumber, etc.   The first time I visited their factory probably fifteen or twenty years = ago, when downtime was available in the woodworking department, they made = rolltop desks, grandfather clocks, custom cabinets, whatever. Smart move.   That factory is so immense that there must be vast areas used very little any more because Wicks could really crank 'em out.   Dennis Steckley & A Six-Pack of Cats    
(back) Subject: Re: More happy topics.A=3D440 From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:57:19 +0800   Well I researched this topic on the internet and came up with the statement that A=3D440 was recommended as the world standard in 1955 and that for most purposes it was adopted. There is then a standard but not all instruments use it.   On orchestral tuning there was this: "Despite such confusion, A=3D440 Hz is now used virtually world wide, at least in theory. In practice, as orchestras still tune to a note given out by the oboe, rather than to an electronic tuning device (which would be more reliable), and as the oboist himself may not have used such a device to tune in the first place, there is still some variance in the exact pitch used." The amateur orchestra in which I play oboe used to tune to my A on the oboe with a former conductor. The present conductor is a string player who tunes to the A given out by the concert master (first violin) who, fortunately for me, uses a tuner to check her A string. My reed is pushed right in and I cold not tune higher than this.   IN one article on the Internet there was the comment that a piano maker named Streicher tuned his pianos to A=3D440 in 1835. However, it continues, there were in the 19th Century twenty or thirty different pitches used. No wonder in the 20th century they needed a standard pitch!   Here is a teaser: Strings tune to pure fifths. How can they play in tune with other instruments that play with a tempered scale?? D on a piano and D on a stringed instrument will be different as will all the strings except A. No wonder they use vibrato!! Bob Elms.   ---- Original Message ---- From: acfreed0904@earthlink.net To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: More happy topics.A=3D440 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:28:43 -0400   I >guess, is that 440 is pretty much the majority "standard," but there >just >isn't anything that can be called "THE standard." (Or is that just >semantics again? Perhaps.) > >Alan      
(back) Subject: Re: heels & toes From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:03:05 -0500   Hello, When we talk about heels and toes are we talking about only attacks or are we talking about keeping our heels off the pedals at all times?   When I play on an AGO, my professor allows me to use my heels, although not for attacks, but not on the Noack in the studio.   Alicia Zeilenga Sub-Dean AGO@UI "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: Hell-Felix@t-online.de To: pipechat@pipechat.org Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:28:48 +0200 Subject: heels & toes   > Dear listmembers and friends, > > while clearing my mailbox I saw that the "heels & toes" discussion was > on once again some time ago. > > Assuming that this is still of interest (just to let you know my point > of view), I almost exlusively use toes in baroque literature. I think, > using toes is in favor of articulation, control, and precision. Even in > the entrance pedal run of the BWV 532. Personally, I believe that this > particular pedal scale was literally composed to be played with all > toes. There's no need of "sneaking in" a heel here and there. And, as > another example, already in 1997, long before I recorded the TAF in C > by > J.S. Bach, I "rebuilt" the whole pedal part (especially the solo in the > Toccata), using all toes. So, what you hear on that CD is all toes. > > For what it is worth... > > Felix Hell > B.M. Candidate > The Curtis Institute of Music > > -- > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: AC Ideas From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:21:28 +0800   I have spent neqrly 50 years in radio as a hobby and I shudder at the thought of even attempting such a console. You would need hundreds of channels each on different frequencies (which would have to be allocated by the FCC to ensure they did not interfere with other services). In a hall the size of AC the power required would be far beyond that set by authorities for a control system, under certain anomalous radio conditions (weather for one) signals could carry for a considerable distance. The chances of interference from outside sources too would be conisiderable. Forget it!!   A local organ has a fibre optic system where only one cable is needed for what is in this case a small organ. That could be the way to go. Bob Elms.   ---- Original Message ---- From: mike6514@hotmail.com To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: AC Ideas Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:48:51 -0500   >Another idea came to me: Has there been any research done or >examples of >attempting a wireless console? Where the organ sends signals to a >master >controller of some sort    
(back) Subject: Re: Theatre Organist From: "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:24:59 -0400   When I was but a teenager, I learned from Lyn Larsen's first recording, = "Get Happy". The one with the bright pink cover. Here in the Northeast, this = young Californian got a LOT of attention, and the record was circulated among = several of us young upstarts. I was told to listen to "this guy" and learn from what = I heard. I did.   At the top of my favorite theatre-organist list, in no particular order: George Wright Lyn Larsen Tom Hazelton Jonas Nordwall Jelani Eddington Hector Olivera   --Shirley   On 25 Sep 2003 at 21:59, First Christian Church of Casey, IL wrote:   > I was surprised that no one has mentioned Jesse Crawford, "The Poet of > the Organ." AFAIK, he was universally acknowledged to be the gold > standard by which all others were judged.      
(back) Subject: IRC tonight From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:54:17 -0700   9 p.m., U.S. Eastern Daylight Time ... like, NOW (grin).   Directions:   http://www.pipechat.org/irc.html   HOPE TO SEE YOU THERE!   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Wireless Relays WAS: Re: AC Ideas From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:58:01 -0500   >I have spent neqrly 50 years in radio as a hobby and I shudder at the >thought of even attempting such a console. You would need hundreds of >channels each on different frequencies (which would have to be >allocated by the FCC to ensure they did not interfere with other >services). > >A local organ has a fibre optic system where only one cable is needed >for what is in this case a small organ. That could be the way to go.   Bob   Well times change and you don't need all sorts of channels and frequencies. Take a look at: http://www.petersonemp.com/products/descriptions/ICS4000_1.cfm - the Peterson ICS-4000 system. All it needs to go from the console to the chamber is an Ethernet connection. Although, probably in most cases it is done with CAT-5 Ethernet wiring there is an option to use Wireless Ethernet which means that all the console needs is an AC cable to power it. i can see the usage of it in places like an orchestra hall or auditorium where the console needs to be moved to different places all the time depending on the set-up of the usage. And it would save the problem that many mobile consoles have had over the years, the problem that the wires in the cable break from handling.   Although, I don't know all the specs of the Peterson system in regard to an organ the size of Atlantic City i am sure that Peterson could adapt this system to handle the size of that instrument. And probably could do it with a wireless connection.   I don't know if there would be interference problems in a place like the Boardwalk Hall with wireless Ethernet but i do know that the it has been around for some period of time and is rather stable. Except for the servers that are running here in the house all the rest of my computers use Wireless Ethernet to communicate with each other and the outside world.   As an organbuilder i do believe in the "tried and true" methods HOWEVER, i also feel that we need to bring ourselves into the 21st Century and using a Peterson system such as this is much better than building/rebuilding old electro-pneumatic relays!   BTW, Bob, i would guess that the organ that is using a fiber optic cable is probably using a computer operated relay. Just another form of Ethernet   David  
(back) Subject: Re: Wicks & Hammond From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:48:07 -0400   You may well be right, Brent, but Martin Wick himself told us that they did build clocks first and organs second. His story was that the people of a nearby church came into the clock shop and asked them if they could build an organ, and that's how it got started. Could be just a story, but it did come out of the very horse's mouth.   -WG   > "Brent Johnson" <brentmj@swbell.net> wrote: > > I feel like adding one correction, Wicks didn't build > clocks BEFORE building organs. One of the three Wick > brothers was a Swiss watchmaker, but the little pocket > kinds. > During World War II, Wicks shifted production several > different ways since the government curtailed pipe > organ building. Clocks were one of the many things > that came out of the Wicks shop. If you find a Wicks > organ built or rebuilt around 1946-1950 (it's not hard > at all) you might find either pipe slides made out of > material stamped and painted for clock faces, or > camouflage material on the concussion bellows. > Then company president Martin Wick served in the Army > Air Corps during the war. When he returned, Wicks > began making aircraft wings for trainer planes. His > training and that experience led to the other Wick > business still operating today, Wicks Aircraft Supply. > Just a little history. > > To stay on topic, Wicks has built an operational clock > organ. Usually on display in the shop, I think it's > somewhere in Florida right now being shown to > potential customers. > Brent Johnson        
(back) Subject: Re: Wicks & Hammond From: "Brent Johnson" <brentmj@swbell.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:52:24 -0500   That's funny. I heard a very similar story, except it was a jewelry shop. I have a reprint of a newspaper from 1890-something with an advertisement for the first Wick business in Highland, which was listed as a jewelry store, however, they also sold clocks, watches, and musical instruments, = so any version of the story may be correct. Brent   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 9:48 PM Subject: Re: Wicks & Hammond     > You may well be right, Brent, but Martin Wick himself told us > that they did build clocks first and organs second. His story > was that the people of a nearby church came into the clock > shop and asked them if they could build an organ, and that's > how it got started. Could be just a story, but it did come out > of the very horse's mouth. > > -WG > > > "Brent Johnson" <brentmj@swbell.net> wrote: > > > > I feel like adding one correction, Wicks didn't build > > clocks BEFORE building organs. One of the three Wick > > brothers was a Swiss watchmaker, but the little pocket > > kinds. > > During World War II, Wicks shifted production several > > different ways since the government curtailed pipe > > organ building. Clocks were one of the many things > > that came out of the Wicks shop. If you find a Wicks > > organ built or rebuilt around 1946-1950 (it's not hard > > at all) you might find either pipe slides made out of > > material stamped and painted for clock faces, or > > camouflage material on the concussion bellows. > > Then company president Martin Wick served in the Army > > Air Corps during the war. When he returned, Wicks > > began making aircraft wings for trainer planes. His > > training and that experience led to the other Wick > > business still operating today, Wicks Aircraft Supply. > > Just a little history. > > > > To stay on topic, Wicks has built an operational clock > > organ. Usually on display in the shop, I think it's > > somewhere in Florida right now being shown to > > potential customers. > > Brent Johnson > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Wireless Relays WAS: Re: AC Ideas From: "Vern Jones" <soundres@foothill.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:58:15 -0700   Hello all,   There is ethernet over fibre as well, so fibre could be run as well as cat-5. Some of the newer fibre can handle 1000 Base-T data rates, more than sufficient for Atlantic city...but 100 Base-T should work as well.   Vern   David Scribner wrote: > > >I have spent neqrly 50 years in radio as a hobby and I shudder at the > >thought of even attempting such a console. You would need hundreds of > >channels each on different frequencies (which would have to be > >allocated by the FCC to ensure they did not interfere with other > >services). > > > >A local organ has a fibre optic system where only one cable is needed > >for what is in this case a small organ. That could be the way to go. > > Bob > > Well times change and you don't need all sorts of channels and > frequencies. Take a look at: > http://www.petersonemp.com/products/descriptions/ICS4000_1.cfm - the > Peterson ICS-4000 system. All it needs to go from the console to the > chamber is an Ethernet connection. Although, probably in most cases > it is done with CAT-5 Ethernet wiring there is an option to use > Wireless Ethernet which means that all the console needs is an AC > cable to power it. i can see the usage of it in places like an > orchestra hall or auditorium where the console needs to be moved to > different places all the time depending on the set-up of the usage. > And it would save the problem that many mobile consoles have had over > the years, the problem that the wires in the cable break from > handling. > > Although, I don't know all the specs of the Peterson system in regard > to an organ the size of Atlantic City i am sure that Peterson could > adapt this system to handle the size of that instrument. And > probably could do it with a wireless connection. > > I don't know if there would be interference problems in a place like > the Boardwalk Hall with wireless Ethernet but i do know that the it > has been around for some period of time and is rather stable. Except > for the servers that are running here in the house all the rest of my > computers use Wireless Ethernet to communicate with each other and > the outside world. > > As an organbuilder i do believe in the "tried and true" methods > HOWEVER, i also feel that we need to bring ourselves into the 21st > Century and using a Peterson system such as this is much better than > building/rebuilding old electro-pneumatic relays! > > BTW, Bob, i would guess that the organ that is using a fiber optic > cable is probably using a computer operated relay. Just another > form of Ethernet > > David > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org