PipeChat Digest #4022 - Saturday, September 27, 2003 Re: Wireless Relays WAS: Re: AC Ideas by "Gary Deboer" <email@example.com> Re: Hector Olivera - The best organist? (Straw POLL) by "Walter Greenwood" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: AC Ideas by "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Re: Dedication of the Garland Organ, FUMC, Wichita Falls, Texas by "John L. Speller" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: The best organist? (Straw POLL) by "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Orchestral STrings and Tuning by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <email@example.com> Re: Wicks & Hammond by "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com> Re: Organ Clearing House by "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com> Re: The best organist? (Straw POLL) by "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com> Wireless Consoles - Going Digital by "Bob Richardson" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sledmere House by "Bruce Miles" <email@example.com>
(back) Subject: Re: Wireless Relays WAS: Re: AC Ideas From: "Gary Deboer" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:10:57 -0500 There is a pipe and electronic organ manufacturer today that offers = wireless consoles in their custom designs now. Remote electrics away from the console is also popular through a single MIDI cable. Check out JOHANNUS.COM or ask for information from your local dealer. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Scribner" <email@example.com> To: "PipeChat" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 7:58 PM Subject: Wireless Relays WAS: Re: AC Ideas > >I have spent neqrly 50 years in radio as a hobby and I shudder at the > >thought of even attempting such a console. You would need hundreds of > >channels each on different frequencies (which would have to be > >allocated by the FCC to ensure they did not interfere with other > >services). > > > >A local organ has a fibre optic system where only one cable is needed > >for what is in this case a small organ. That could be the way to go. > > Bob > > Well times change and you don't need all sorts of channels and > frequencies. Take a look at: > http://www.petersonemp.com/products/descriptions/ICS4000_1.cfm - the > Peterson ICS-4000 system. All it needs to go from the console to the > chamber is an Ethernet connection. Although, probably in most cases > it is done with CAT-5 Ethernet wiring there is an option to use > Wireless Ethernet which means that all the console needs is an AC > cable to power it. i can see the usage of it in places like an > orchestra hall or auditorium where the console needs to be moved to > different places all the time depending on the set-up of the usage. > And it would save the problem that many mobile consoles have had over > the years, the problem that the wires in the cable break from > handling. > > Although, I don't know all the specs of the Peterson system in regard > to an organ the size of Atlantic City i am sure that Peterson could > adapt this system to handle the size of that instrument. And > probably could do it with a wireless connection. > > I don't know if there would be interference problems in a place like > the Boardwalk Hall with wireless Ethernet but i do know that the it > has been around for some period of time and is rather stable. Except > for the servers that are running here in the house all the rest of my > computers use Wireless Ethernet to communicate with each other and > the outside world. > > As an organbuilder i do believe in the "tried and true" methods > HOWEVER, i also feel that we need to bring ourselves into the 21st > Century and using a Peterson system such as this is much better than > building/rebuilding old electro-pneumatic relays! > > BTW, Bob, i would guess that the organ that is using a fiber optic > cable is probably using a computer operated relay. Just another > form of Ethernet > > David > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:email@example.com > Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:email@example.com > >
(back) Subject: Re: Hector Olivera - The best organist? (Straw POLL) From: "Walter Greenwood" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:34:41 -0400 I pretty much owe my organ playing career to Hector. I had developed an = interest in the organ in elementary school, but didn't really run with it until I = met him. In the early 70's (I was in my early teens) he had settled near Pittsburgh, and = was playing dinner music at a local hotel bar (where Leroy Lewis had previously been = the organist) while revving his recital career up to speed. He played a = program at a small Lutheran church near my home on a Moller tracker of about 20 ranks, = all unenclosed. He played a recital of Bach, Daquin, Couperin, and the like, = and then, of all things, did the Poulenc Concerto with about 8 or 10 players from = the Pittsburgh Symphony. He was wearing a tight black South American cowboy outfit with rinestones all over it. He was phenomenal, and I was hooked, = but I was confused by his playing at times. I could tell he was playing notes that = were not in the score, especially in the Daquin, and I asked him about it after the = program. He explained to me that it was his own "special arrangement" - he is a = consumate improviser, as I soon learned. During those years he spent in my town, he = gave the first and only organ recital ever at Heinz Hall (on the Rodgers = touring organ), and another, more memorable program on the Beckerath at St. Paul's = Cathedral. At the end he improvised a fifteen minute masterpiece on the submitted = theme - "Plop, Plop, Fizz, Fizz" from the Alka Seltzer commercials. At the = hotel, he always slipped in some Bach among the pop tunes and the inevitable "Flight of the Bumblebee" on the pedals. He got hold of a big black 4-manual = console and assembled a pipe organ of 40-some ranks in his house, speaking through grates in the floor, like Fox had had in his New Jersey mansion. I spent = some time working on that with him, and had a ball. We were all sorry to see = him move out of town. -WG > "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> wrote: > > Hello, > > At last! > > Hector Olivera is the supreme technical master, and > for my money, safely outperforms all-comers in the > theatre organ stakes. > > And yet, George Wright has, IMHO never been excelled > as the absolute entertainer with the most > extraordinary wit and imagination. > > I can listen to recordings of both forever. > > Of course, many of the other names were/are great > performers and stylists who have their place in the > folklore of the theatre organ. > > If we were to ask the THEATRE ORGANISTS who was the > best CLASSICAL organist (living or deceased), I wonder > who they would agree upon? > > I have an idea, but I dare not anticipate. > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchell UK > > --- RonSeverin@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Colin: > > > > That'd be Hector Olivera Si?
(back) Subject: Re: AC Ideas From: "John L. Speller" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:36:51 -0500 I believe some experiments have indeed been done with wireless connections to the console. However, with modern solid state systems there are only a few wires anyway. However, fitting a modern solid state system to the ACCH organ would be a major undertaking. Among other things it would involve rewiring the whole organ. As, however, the existing wiring has been badly disturbed, the grandfathering clauses of the wiring code would probably be inoperative, and so legally speaking if it is ever to play again the ACCH organ would probably have to be completely rewired anyway. This is one of the things that makes the undertaking such a major and expensive project. John Speller Mike Franch wrote: > Another idea came to me: Has there been any research done or examples > of attempting a wireless console? Where the organ sends signals to a > master controller of some sort (either infrared or frequency or > digital frequency). I would think that would eliminate the same type > of destruction on the ACCH organ, what with its massive set of pipes > and wires.
(back) Subject: Re: Dedication of the Garland Organ, FUMC, Wichita Falls, Texas From: "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:50:57 -0500 Pologaptommy@aol.com wrote: > I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but no, the world does NOT have > another full length 64' reed. It is in fact only two notes into the > 64' Octave, but from A down is a resultant. No one really knows WHY > they decided to go two notes down into the 64' octave, but I bet space > was an issue. Space and (doubtless) expense would be issues. But if you think about it such a stop could still be useful. There are a couple of organs that have one note of the 64 ft. octave (am I right in thinking the Schoenstein in Salt Lake City is one?) and it comes in very useful in some organ compositions, such as the Franck B minor Chorale -- where B is the bottom note. There must be a few pieces around in B flat too. Also, if you think about it, low C of a 64 ft. reed tends to be pretty much at the edge of what the human ear can hear, but B flat and B are a lot nearer to the lowest note of a 32 ft., and are therefore well within hearing range. John Speller
(back) Subject: Re: The best organist? (Straw POLL) From: "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:25:12 -0400 Lemare was great, but was he really a theatre organist? I don't think he totally fits the catergory=2E Doing transcriptions of Mahler 5 is above a= nd beyond the realm of Cinema/Theatre organ I think=2E Andrew Original Message: ----------------- From: RonSeverin@aol=2Ecom Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:04:04 -0400 (EDT) To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: Re: The best organist? (Straw POLL) Hi Colin: In this mix, I really don't think Edwin H=2E Lemare should be forgotten=2E= He was in his early years Organist for St=2E Margaret's the church parliament members attended=2E He had some falling out with a rector who eventually told him to "clear out"=2E This was near or after the turn of the 20th Century=2E He was famous for his trans- criptions for organ=2E He went on tours of Australia playing on some of their largest instruments=2E He was Municipal Organist in several cities in the US=2E His playing was right in the middle of classic and orchestral= =2E He died in 1934 and is buried in the Forest Lawn Mausoleum in Glendale, CA=2E some say quite near the organ loft=2E He made many organ rolls that can be still played today=2E If I'm not mistaken, some of these performances have been made available on tape and CD=2E I think the rolls were for the Aeolian player unit=2E He was one of the most highly paid for his performances at the time=2E Ron Severin -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E
(back) Subject: Orchestral STrings and Tuning From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:26:35 -0500 Since orchestral strings are NOT fretted instruments, they can adapt to = any pitch easily......can't do that on a guitar! And that's also the reason why beginning string players sound so = absolutely awful. I've always said, "A good brass player sounds good; a good string player sounds awful; an excellent string player sounds goods." Dennis Steckley & A Six-Pack of Cats
(back) Subject: Re: Wicks & Hammond From: "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:28:03 -0400 Greg, And Mozart wrote pieces for Mechanical Clock that are now playedon organ=2E= Andrew Original Message: ----------------- From: Gfc234@aol=2Ecom Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:46:26 -0400 (EDT) To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: Re: Wicks & Hammond They both built clocks before organs-and they're from Illinois=2E I win! = It is=20 actually an interesting relationship-in the 15th and 16th centuries, organ= s=20 and clocks were the most technically advanced devices-that's why so many=20= municipal organs were built=2E Gregory Ceurvorst -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Clearing House From: "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:38:13 -0400 Alan, Your post strikes home for me becuase i did my undergrad work at Ithaca College=2E I never played that organ while I was there but am certainly g= lad to hear that it is getting a new home=2E Ithaca College has an 86 rank Schlicker in the Auditorium with about 30 ranks of mixtures=2E It suffice= s to say that it is a screecher=2E=2Elol I was even more amazed when my org= an professor there told me that the technician had silence some of the ranks=2E= =20 I said "you mean all 10 ranks on each mixture don't sound? and I thought it screeched a lot NOWADAYS"=2E=2Elol=2E Original Message: ----------------- Wrom: FJMVRESKPNKMBIPBARHDMNNSKVFVWRKJVZCMHVIB Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:01:47 -0400 To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: Re: Organ Clearing House Organ Clearing Househttp://www=2Eorganclearinghouse=2Ecom/ ----- Original Message -----=20 Wrom: GDADRZFSQHY To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 5:13 PM Subject: Organ Clearing House I never thought I'd ever need to know about them, but the time has come=2E= Got a call from a friend of a friend=2E Real estate fellow in Manhattan= and Ithaca (home of Cornell, etc=2E)=2E He recently bought a (the?) Mason= ic Temple in Ithaca, and may turn it into condominiums=2E It contains a pipe= organ (apparently 2 manuals, xx stops, c=2E 1924ish=2E More details comin= g on maybe Monday=2E He's not personally interested in the instrument as a musical instrument=2E He IS reputed to be a fine person, even a bit of a philanthropist=2E He feels it should be removed, "fixed" if it needs it, = and find a new home in a church or something=2E (It DOES work; he's heard it=2E= ) He's sending me more info next week, and I think I should put him in touch with OCH=2E Other than that, is there more I should do? Who can supply OCH addresses/phones/faxes/e-mail/website, etc=2E? Thanks Alan=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E
(back) Subject: Re: The best organist? (Straw POLL) From: "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:41:04 -0400 Hector Olivera is amazing=2E I have seen him in concert, but I don't know= if I would consider him a theatre organist either=2E I think he fits in a catergory all by himself=2E There is no one else like him out there=2E Andrew Original Message: ----------------- Wrom: SKVFVWRKJVZCMHVIBGDADRZFSQHYUCDDJBLV Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:17:30 -0700 (PDT) To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: Re: The best organist? (Straw POLL) Hello, At last! Hector Olivera is the supreme technical master, and for my money, safely outperforms all-comers in the theatre organ stakes=2E And yet, George Wright has, IMHO never been excelled as the absolute entertainer with the most extraordinary wit and imagination=2E I can listen to recordings of both forever=2E Of course, many of the other names were/are great performers and stylists who have their place in the folklore of the theatre organ=2E If we were to ask the THEATRE ORGANISTS who was the best CLASSICAL organist (living or deceased), I wonder who they would agree upon? I have an idea, but I dare not anticipate=2E Regards, Colin Mitchell UK --- RonSeverin@aol=2Ecom wrote: > Hi Colin: >=20 > That'd be Hector Olivera Si? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping=2Eyahoo=2Ecom "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www=2Epipechat=2Eorg List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat=2Eorg Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat=2Eorg -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E
(back) Subject: Wireless Consoles - Going Digital From: "Bob Richardson" <email@example.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:40:11 -0700 I've been reading the emerging discussion on wireless consoles and wanted to toss in my 2 cents... One poster remarked that sending MIDI information wirelessly could be catastrophic because any lost "note off" information would lead to = cacophony. Another poster was concerned that the number of radio frequencies required = would be huge, and the FCC wouldn't permit it. Some have mentioned the possibilities Ethernet has to offer, and I wanted to expand as to why using off-the-shelf networking technology can be the way to go. The great things about going digital (and by "digital" in this case, I am NOT referring to tone generation), every input on the console (keys, stop tabs, expression pedals, blower motor switch, you name it) can be transmitted via one protocol down one cable, or in effect, one frequency = or small set of frequencies. The key word here is "protocol". The problem with MIDI by itself is that it is a unidirectional protocol - the sender has no way of knowing if the sent message was ever received. In other words, the console can't know that if a pipe was properly told to turn on or off. But the protocols = that operate over Ethernet are error-checking - if a packet of information does = not reach its destination, it is requested again and again until it makes the journey correctly. (This is a gross oversimplification, but it = works.) If you build a console with a "smart" digital sending unit that encodes note and stop tab info and sends it down an Ethernet cable to a "smart" receiving unit at the organ relay, the sending unit and receiving unit can = have a digital conversation that is always going on behind-the-scenes to ensure that all information makes the trip, and is processed in the = correct order. Once you have this, substitute a wireless Ethernet kit you can pick up at Circuit City for well under $200, and your console is suddenly wireless, except for needing power, of course. (You can design a console that can run for days off RV batteries, but that's another story.) There are other problems to consider, however. Ethernet is generally fast = enough to convey all console information a human organist could generate, but it is not zero-latency. If you are sharing your wireless network with = say, the church secretary surfing the internet, you cannot easily = guarantee that the packets sent by the console will arrive at the organ loft fast enough to go unnoticed by the performer. Best to work out a dedicated network with protocol rules that ensure minimum (and consistent) latency, and don't share it with unrelated, competing data demands. Best wishes all, Bob Richardson firstname.lastname@example.org http://www.bobrichardson.com/desert_organ_1.html
(back) Subject: Sledmere House From: "Bruce Miles" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:39:45 +0100 It is said (I forget by whom) that there are some ranks in this organ recovered by Binns Fitton and Haley from bombed-out BFH theatre organs in Hull. The Carlton cinema was mentioned. BFH only built about ten theatre organs, most of which went to Hull. The Sledmere House organ was rebuilt = by BFH after being removed from the private chapel at Dunecht House c1947 = which would be about the time that Hull was picking up the pieces after being = very heavily bombed in WW II. The BFH works record for the rebuild (job No BFH 1661/S undated) records = the Tuba (a real window-smasher on 8" wind) as being 'from Hull'. Does anyone know anything about this rebuild and what was added and where the ranks = came from. It must have been one of their last jobs. Colin ? Bruce Miles. website - http://www.gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: "PipeChat" <email@example.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 1:05 PM Subject: Re: Ashton under Lyne nr Manchester > > The reference to J J Binns 1959 is perhaps not as > curious as it may first appear. The interests of the > company were taken over by some of his workmen, and > the J J Binns name was still popularly used. However, > the proper name for the company was Binns, Fitton & > Haley, and they continued to do work until, maybe, > 1964-ish???? > > One of their better organs is that in Sledmere House, > as re-built by Geoffrey Coffin. Sledmere is a great, > rambling country pile, and the home of the > Tatton-Sykes family of noble-folk. I advised his grace > about the plans for rebuilding the organ which, so far > as I know, he more or less followed in good time, with > one or two additional features suggested by Geoffrey > Coffin. > > At least it prevented J W Walker putting in a > squeaky-clean, 2 manual tracker baroque instrument!! > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchell UK