PipeChat Digest #4030 - Monday, September 29, 2003 Re: Hymn Survey by "F Richard Burt" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: OFF-TOPIC: Re: Hymn Survey by "Margo Dillard" <email@example.com> Re: Reservoir Building by "C. Joseph Nichols" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: g minor fugue . . ."there is no God" by <Myosotis51@aol.com> Re: g minor fugue . . ."there is no God" by "jch" <email@example.com> Re: A Mighty Fortress by "Dr. Amy Fleming" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: OFF-TOPIC: Re: Hymn Survey by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> RE: Morning Mishaps :) by "Storandt, Peter" <email@example.com> RE: Fugue a la Gigue? by "Storandt, Peter" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: OFF-TOPIC: Re: Hymn Survey by "Bob Conway" <email@example.com> Re: sexy organists by "Mark Koontz" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Morning Mishaps :) by "Alicia Zeilenga" <email@example.com> Re: Clock that clergyman! by "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: g minor fugue . . ."there is no God" by "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> Re: OFF-TOPIC: Re: Hymn Survey by "Russ Greene" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: g minor fugue..."there is no God" by "TommyLee Whitlock" <email@example.com> Strong rhythmic cong. Singing (was: A mighty Fortress) by "Karl Moyer" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: g minor fugue..."there is no God" by <RonSeverin@aol.com> Re: Strong rhythmic cong. Singing (was: A mighty Fortress) by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> RE: The 32' Cornet by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
(back) Subject: Re: Hymn Survey From: "F Richard Burt" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:38:40 -0500 Good Morning, David, et al: Favorite hymns come in two groups: 1. Those that appeal to the larger group of people in our churches, and 2. Those that speak to me, personally. The collection of hymns that appeal to the larger group of people in our congregations are, mostly, not hymns but gospel songs. You can list the first twenty of the most gospel songs off the top of your head. Hymns used in our congregations (Southern Baptist) are a fairly limited set, due most often to the flawed perception that hymns are "high church" songs and are largely avoided. Since 1985 there has been a backlash of resentment among many of our preachers against "high church" music. So, I fall back on my learning years (childhood and teens) to the time when the First Baptist Church in our towns was the only Baptist church that leaned toward a more "dignified" form of worship. After I was committed to "the ministry" as a church musician, I began to study the hymnal, and discovered many new hymns and English style gospel hymns that sustained me. Most of the hymns posted as favorites by many of you would be included among those that I "like." It is difficult to pick my "most favorite" hymn, for I love the study of hymnody, and love many of the tunes passed down to us. However, I have no illusions of getting our people to sing most of them, much less "like" them. <grins> F. Richard Burt Dorian Organs ..
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC: Re: Hymn Survey From: "Margo Dillard" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:46:28 -0500 Every time I have played for one of those "call out the numbers" sessions where the congregation picks the hymns - in any church, in any denomination - there is always a lot of variety and there are always some interesting choices - BUT 2 hymns occur EVERY time without fail: Amazing Grace and How Great Thou Art. Margo
(back) Subject: Re: Reservoir Building From: "C. Joseph Nichols" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:32:47 -0500 Are you coming to the AIO convention in Atlanta? If you are we will = just bring your care package to you. If not, we'll mail it. C. Joseph Nichols Nichols & Simpson, Inc. www.nicholsandsimpson.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kzimmer0817@aol.com=20 To: email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org=20 Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 7:42 PM Subject: Reservoir Building Sorry, I'm posting to both lists because I know that there are = those experienced in the technical aspects of pipe organs that don't = lurk the diyapason list. Does anybody have much experience in actually building a = reservoir from scratch? I need two more reservoirs for my project which = should be about 24" x 30-36". I have a 30 x 42 with an internal curtain = valve that I could copy. It doesn't need to be releathered, so I = wouldn't be able to take it completely apart. Thanks, Keith
(back) Subject: Re: g minor fugue . . ."there is no God" From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:42:57 EDT Hello Gfc234@aol.com, In reference to your comment: In a message dated 9/28/2003 5:26:30 PM Central Daylight Time, ContraReed@aol.com writes:Are you thinking along the lines of words like "pie" for quarter notes, "ap-ple" for eighths, "huc-kle-ber-ry" or "Mis-sis-sip-pi" or "Ma-ser-a-ti" for sixteenth notes, etc?? I think using Maserati builds up false hope for young children! LOL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Well, definitely for those who intend to become church organists! :-) Victoria
(back) Subject: Re: g minor fugue . . ."there is no God" From: "jch" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:00:42 -0500 At 08:42 AM 9/29/03, you wrote: >think using Maserati builds up false hope for >young children! LOL Especially if they are destined to be organist.....No Maserati's or JAG-U-RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRs Jon
(back) Subject: Re: A Mighty Fortress From: "Dr. Amy Fleming" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:25:47 -0500 Karl Moyer asks, "I Do you refer to differences of text or music?" Music - she is learning to play it on the organ for the congregation to = sing to. It is pg 298 in Lutheran Worship and 262 in the old Lutheran Hymnal. = I guess we will just listen to it on CD (the isorhythmic version) to get the other one out of our heads. I understand the isorhythmic came first. Amy
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC: Re: Hymn Survey From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:30:35 -0400 At 04:08 PM 2003-09-28 -0500, you wrote: >Don't forget Blake's wonderful text - And Did Those Feet in Ancient Time = - >one of our congregation's all time favorites. Of course we're in Canada >with a dominant British Isles background. An American friend once told me = >that this hymn "chilled the cockles of her little Yankee heart!" > >Russ Russ, I don't know how dominant the British culture is in Canada anymore. I think more and more it is confined to the Anglican church, where that particular might still be sung. In Toronto, the British Isles background has pretty much disappeared. The = white European peoples are now in the minority in many parts of the city. Where I live less than 20% of school children are of white European = stock. This was not the case even 15 years ago. My guess is that most of = the large cities in Canada are becoming multi-racial, and the "British" influence will continue to decrease. Arie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arie Vandenberg Classic Organbuilders ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com Tel.: 905-475-1263
(back) Subject: RE: Morning Mishaps :) From: "Storandt, Peter" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:38:40 -0500 Let Randy be in charge of the French.... I can=20 see the newsletter already. "Organist fired: was supposed to play hymn, instead, went to go pee-pee....", excuse my French. Chuck Peery Cincinnati "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org Administration: mailto:email@example.com Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org
(back) Subject: RE: Fugue a la Gigue? From: "Storandt, Peter" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:46:58 -0500 Bob is the musician at St. Boniface Episcopal Church in Siesta Key. The organ is a three-manual Moller and was recently renovated and completely re-voiced by Jeff Weiler and Jonathan Ambrosino. It was their work that attracted Jeremy to do the Dupre recording series there. It is quite an instrument now, and the room is a perfect match. =20 Peter =20 -----Original Message----- From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of Gfc234@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 12:36 AM To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Fugue a la Gigue? =20 In a message dated 9/29/2003 12:22:38 AM Central Daylight Time, email@example.com writes: BTW what's Bob Reeves up to these days? I was one of his students at NIU. I think he moved to Sarasota and works at an Episcopal church with a Moller that was restored. The Jeremy Filsell recordings of Dupre were done there. I wonder why anyone would want to record Dupre on a Moller?......so many other choices-like CAVAILLE COLL! (waiting for an argument!) LOL =20
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC: Re: Hymn Survey From: "Bob Conway" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:48:46 -0400 I think that Arie Vandenburg may well be correct as far as the "Big = Cities" in Canada are concerned, - but I can say that here in the City of Kingston (Canada's first Capital City, until Queen Victoria decided that Ottawa was better!), the old British traditions are well and truly to the fore! Not just in the Anglican Church, but in other denominations as well. = There is a very large percentage of Kingston inhabitants who are of British background, and many of Scottish antecedents as well. The mix of other races is pretty small, - perhaps the student body of Queen's University here in Kingston has a higher percentage, but they are = an ephemeral bunch! I can attest that Jerusalem, ("And did those feet") is sung whenever the chance arises. Holst's Planets Jupiter is also often sung to the words of "I vow to thee My country" whenever possible! Bob Conway ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> To: "PipeChat" <email@example.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 10:30 AM Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC: Re: Hymn Survey > At 04:08 PM 2003-09-28 -0500, you wrote: > >Don't forget Blake's wonderful text - And Did Those Feet in Ancient Time - > >one of our congregation's all time favorites. Of course we're in Canada > >with a dominant British Isles background. An American friend once told = me > >that this hymn "chilled the cockles of her little Yankee heart!" > > > >Russ > > Russ, > > I don't know how dominant the British culture is in Canada anymore. I > think more and more it is confined to the Anglican church, where that > particular might still be sung. > > In Toronto, the British Isles background has pretty much disappeared. = The > white European peoples are now in the minority in many parts of the > city. Where I live less than 20% of school children are of white = European > stock. This was not the case even 15 years ago. My guess is that most = of > the large cities in Canada are becoming multi-racial, and the "British" > influence will continue to decrease. > > Arie > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Arie Vandenberg > Classic Organbuilders > ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com > Tel.: 905-475-1263 > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > Administration: mailto:email@example.com > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > >
(back) Subject: Re: sexy organists From: "Mark Koontz" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:58:27 -0700 (PDT) One would like to think that it is always "only about the music". = Observations tend to indicate a more mixed bag. Some music is played to show off the instrument. Some music is played to show off the performer. One would = rather hope, of course, that the instrument and performer were serving the music. = It is tremendously inspiring when this is true. At best, the personality of the performer draws larger audiences to = appreciate organ music. From another point of view, Walter Matthau proved that you don't have to = be young and good looking to be able to play "sexy". Once, a young lady was placing a rose on the organ, to announce a birth. = She stood back, and then adjusted the placement, saying "We need to be able to = see the organist." I mildly protested, indicating that I would much prefer to be hidden. She smiled and replied, "No, some of us really NEED to see the organist". Made my day... Mark
(back) Subject: Re: Morning Mishaps :) From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:17:26 -0500 It is a good idea, and one that I have thought about, but usually just paper clipping the pages works fine. :) Luckily most of my service music was in my binder since it is not in the accompaniment book. I do try to keep ahead of things, in fact, I usually know the readings before the pastor! Alicia Zeilenga Sub-Dean AGO@UI "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis" -----Original Message----- From: RonSeverin@aol.com To: email@example.com Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:03:41 EDT Subject: Re: Morning Mishaps :) > Hi Alicia: > > Can I offer a suggestion? What happened to you this morning used > to happen to me. The solution I came up with is to copy the pages > from that big bulky book OCP provides and insert them into those > nice plastic sleves available at Office Depot and put them in a three > hole binder. I buy them by the hundered count. It takes a bit of pre > playing preparation, but everything is in order from start to finish. > if you use a misalette with the congregation, or the yearly hymnal > in the pews I always include the page and hymn numbers on computer > stickers that are easily removed if the hymn numbers or pages change > from season to season. I never know if there is going to be a reader or > not so I make sure I'm not caught looking for directions to give the > congregation at the last second. No page is going to blow in the wind > or fall on the floor. I also pretab music requiring fast page turns. > I do the same thing with Mass accompaniments, Responsorial Psalms, > and all the other accompanied responses. They can be put in order > in a few minutes and you just turn pages beginning to end. No more > frazzle, everything is ORGANized. (To keep this on topic) <G> > > I have three binders going now, 1. Advent, Christmas, Epiphany, > 2. Ordinary Time, and 3. Lent, Triduum, Easter, Pentecost. Everything > is there, easy to add to and maintain. To establish it takes a gradual > bit of doing, to maintain it a snap. I used to mount music on heavy > cardboard, but this is much more efficient. I use my computer scanner > as a copy machine. It's really nice for home planning. Since it falls > to > me to chose the music, I make my planning sheets for the readers > 12-18 weeks in advance when a new missallete comes out. I can then > relax, knowing everything is in order and ready at a moments notice. > Nothing fancy, but it works. My ideas are adaptable to any situation. > > Ron Severin >
(back) Subject: Re: Clock that clergyman! From: "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Hello, Which reminds me, would you believe, of a funny story? I once played the organ in a church which had an exceptionally noisy Sturtevent blower mounted in the rafters, just above the organ. I was 16 at the time and the vicar was tedious in the extreme. I recall that I used to time his sermons, and if they went on for more than about 15 minutes (which they often did), I used to press the start switch on the organ. If I got the timing right, it went something like, "In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost", followed by the awful sound of the blower starting up, and which sounded EXACTLY like someone flushing the john!! It was a never ending source of juvenile delight which made many a poignant comment. Professor Hutchings, who was Professor of Music at Durham University had a similar trick up his sleeve.....or was it up his trouser leg? When things got too lengthy, he would start to practise pedal scales on a very creaky old pedalboard. If that didn't work.....double pedal practise. His final statement was usually annoyingly loud pedal glizzandi which usually brought the sermon to an end in very short measure. I'm afraid the English are just not very receptive to sermons! Regards, Colin Mitchell UK --- bobelms <email@example.com> wrote: > There is a story about a church..... the pulpit had > a trapdoor > in the floor. At > the end of 15 minutes of the sermon the trapdoor > opened and the > preacher disappeared from view. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Re: g minor fugue . . ."there is no God" From: "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Hello, I once had a Jaguar! Regards, Colin Mitchell UK --- jch <email@example.com> wrote: > At 08:42 AM 9/29/03, you wrote: > >think using Maserati builds up false hope for > >young children! LOL > > Especially if they are destined to be > organist.....No Maserati's or > JAG-U-RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRs __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC: Re: Hymn Survey From: "Russ Greene" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:53:55 -0500 Arie, I expect that you're correct although the situation in Toronto is far more extreme than elsewhere in the country. Here in Winnipeg, we have been more multi-cultural than most Canadian cities for many decades, with only 25 percent of our population having a British Isles background and no other cultural group larger than about 10 percent. However, we have never appeared as multi-racial as Toronto is today because almost all of our differing groups are white European, the only major exceptions being our aboriginal and Phillipino communities. It's been great living in such a rich cultural mosaic. Russ On Monday, September 29, 2003, at 09:30 AM, Arie Vandenberg wrote: > In Toronto, the British Isles background has pretty much disappeared. > The white European peoples are now in the minority in many parts of > the city. Where I live less than 20% of school children are of white > European stock. This was not the case even 15 years ago. My guess is > that most of the large cities in Canada are becoming multi-racial, and > the "British" influence will continue to decrease.
(back) Subject: Re: g minor fugue..."there is no God" From: "TommyLee Whitlock" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:25:07 -0400 > If I recall, this was for the same fugue but I'm cleaning it up lest = anyone > be offended: > > My life is such a bore > My mother is a ***** > And to make things worse > My father drives a hearse > > I hadn't thought about this in years and of course now I won't be able = to > stop. Curse you! I heard one _very_ similar to this from a friend who studied at Peabody, Baltimore. Apparently they had quite a few of this ilke! Your father is a bore Your mother is a ***** And to make things worse Your brother drives a hearse I gather the variations on these things are legion! Cheers, tommylee
(back) Subject: Strong rhythmic cong. Singing (was: A mighty Fortress) From: "Karl Moyer" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:46:11 -0400 On 9/28/03 11:25 PM, "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > So ... like it or not, the Bach "smoothing out" of the chorales is very > late and VERY decadent (grin). > > I don't agree with the angular modern harmonies supplied for the > chorale-melodies in the new Lutheran hymnals, but I DO agree with > restoring the original rhythms. Erik Routley wrote in his _the Music of Christian Hymnody_ that these "rhythmic chorales" need neither harmony nor accompaniment for a = successful performance. (Those are almost his precise words, but his book is not = handy to me right now. So I'll not use direct quotation marks.) He is right!! If we can get used to the idea of letting those infectious rhythms "dance" on their own, those chorales would come alive far more than most folks = sense them to be. Unison or monophonic music tends toward a linear and horizontal life, while harmony or homophonic music tends toward a color and vertical life. Harmony, after all, is color in music. Harmony can become a strong tool for moving hymnody along if and when the harmonic changes force the melody to keep moving, just as Mozart does with rapidly-moving melodic material over slow but sure harmonic changes. But when the harmonic rhythm itself becomes complex and "busy" and exceedingly beautiful, as it does in Bach's versions of chorales for choir and orchestra in his passions and cantatas, the forward motion slows considerably while folks are basking in the = beauty of the harmonies. That's wonderful when they are performed as Bach intended. However, congregational singing is a different kettle of fish!! Beautiful harmonies, complete with lovely passing tones et al, make the = pace of congregational singing become lethargic, making it difficult to get through a phrase in one breath. But when you strip away the harmonies = from Lutheran chorales, restore the strong original rhythms, let the melodies "dance," and get the people used to this, the people will move those melodies along just fine by themselves, thank you, without need of the organ. A way to teach this aesthetic and procedure to the people: ask them = to sing only melody and then at least for some stanzas PLAY only the melody = in octaves and in sprightly, articulate manner, and gradually begin to start stanzas on the organ and then drop out after 4 - 7 notes of the melody, = much as Paul Manz used to do in hymn festivals. After several years of doing this, the people will come to enjoy that fact that they can sing without = the organ in such chorales. THEN they will sing with more interest and life. The aesthetic of Bach, Mendelssohn, Reger, and the 19th-20th century British does great violence to the 16th and 17th chorales. There is something intrinsically incorrect about forcing those melodies into = another aesthetic AS CONGREGATIONAL FARE, and while ordinary people won't be able = to explain why, they simply come to sense that this is not successful hymnody and then tend to dislike it. Part of this problem: an attitude on the part of many who derive = their training from the English practice, esp. as honed by the Oxford Movement = and its accompanying liturgical revival, that congregational singing is an activity that interested people do ALONG WITH THE CHOIR and also along = with the organ. This is very different from the philosophy that the CONGREGATION is the most important singing force in worship and thus that music planning and leadership must be designed principally to hone THAT singing force, NOT the choir. Some absolutely WONDERFUL music came out = of all that; I think easily of Goss' "Lauda Anima" as it appeared in _Hymns Ancient and Modern_ with its four stanzas each set a different way. But that's CHOIR function more than congregational function. So that has the same sort of problem that Bach chorales have when foisted on the congregation: it was not intended as congregational fare and it does not ultimately work well that way. Organs installed so as to sound good with the choir but hardly sound directly and clearly to the congregation indicate an aesthetic and worship theology in which the congregation's singing is secondary to the choir and organ. This is especially the case in the late 19th-century/early 20th-century English gothic revival in American church architecture, often with the divide chancel and the organ left and right of the chancel = speaking into the chancel, often with either perfunctory tone-egress openings to = the nave or none at all. It's hard to make the congregation feel like the = chief singing force in such situations. We Lutherans in America made a real mess of these things, even to the point of setting much liturgy to Anglican chant as congregational fare. That's much of what you find at the ubiquitous "Page 15" of _The Lutheran Hymnal, 1941, complete with the Gloria in Excelsis sung to "Old Scottish Chant!!" (That same hymnal did maintain the rhythms of the chorales but = in very heavy harmonizations.) _Service Book and Hymnal_, 1958, began to = undo this problem with a liturgical setting by Regina Fryxell that had greater forward flow to it, and that has continued in _Lutheran Book of Worship_, 1978, and _Lutheran Worship_, 1982. How many Lutheran buildings from ca. 1870 & ff are built in English gothic style with divided chancels? Thousands of them!! It has become "thing to do,:" but it was ill advised, = so long as the point about congregational hymn and liturgy singing is the issue. Das ist jetzt genug. Der alte pensionierte Kappelmeister Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA
(back) Subject: Re: g minor fugue..."there is no God" From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:02:38 EDT Hi Tommy: I must have lived a rather sheltered life. I learned some rather difficult pieces by Bach without resorting to that. This all new news to me. Ron
(back) Subject: Re: Strong rhythmic cong. Singing (was: A mighty Fortress) From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:51:58 -0400 On 9/29/03 12:46 PM, "Karl Moyer" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > Erik Routley wrote in his _the Music of Christian Hymnody_ that these > "rhythmic chorales" need neither harmony nor accompaniment for a successf= ul > performance. (Those are almost his precise words, but his book is not han= dy > to me right now. So I'll not use direct quotation marks.) He is right!! Karl=8Bwhat an absolutely fabulous little essay! Would you permit me to reprint it on OrganChat, with due attributions, of course? Alan
(back) Subject: RE: The 32' Cornet From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:16:46 -0400 Colin Mitchell writes: > Now Sebastian claims that the 32ft Cornet is ineffective, but has he ever heard a Compton version I wonder? > They are SO effective as to almost make a 32ft reed redundant.........certainly the smooth Trombone type anyway. What makes them so effective? When we were discussing resultants a year or two ago (perhaps on = PIPORG-L), someone stated that a stopped quint rank could be as = effective as open, i.e. a 32' sound by adding a pipe actually only 5 1/3 = feet long, but physical placement was very important for the success of = such a stop. Ideally, the two pipes making up each note should stand as = close together as possible, perhaps arranged like the ranks in a mixture = stop. Would this be part of Compton's secret? I especially remember the 32' cornet and the 32' reed at St. John's = Cathedral in Milwaukee (Noehren ca. 1967). The reed could have been = half-length. I didn't think that either stop was very effective by = itself, but that the two were used together were much more than the sum = of their parts.