PipeChat Digest #4414 - Tuesday, April 6, 2004 Re: fads in organ-building by "Malcolm Wechsler" <email@example.com> Re: Vibrato and Pastoral Care by "bobelms" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: fads in organ-building by "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> RE: Flag near alter by "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Flag near alter (altered to "altar") by "Randolph Runyon" <email@example.com> RE: Flag near alter by "Shirley" <firstname.lastname@example.org> The Lewis organ in Southwark Cathedral by "Bob Conway" <email@example.com> Fads in organ-building? What's THAT? by "Richard Schneider" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Quote by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Re: The Lewis organ in Southwark Cathedral by <Cpmnhartus@aol.com> Langlais & Mesiaen, was "Startling a few people" by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Venezuela National Anthem by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <email@example.com> RE: Vibrato and Pastoral Care by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Holy Week activities at La Candelaria Parish by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <email@example.com> Re: Flag near alter by "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Venezuela National Anthem by "Randolph Runyon" <email@example.com> Re: Flag near alter by "F. Richard Burt" <firstname.lastname@example.org> RE: Flag near alter by "Sam Vause" <email@example.com> Re: Flag near alter by "Randolph Runyon" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
(back) Subject: Re: fads in organ-building From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:04:35 -0400 Well, for another approach to this, see = http://www.mander-organs.com/html/st_peter.html This Organ is in St. = Louis. The Pedal is on the opposite side of the chancel from the main = instrument, but in this case, rather than using electric action, = trackers run under the chancel floor, or more correctly, above the = basement ceiling, from one side of the chancel to the other. My = associate and I had the pleasure of measuring all of this to make sure = the trackers would have an unobstructed pathway. It was just a little = complex, working on two levels, and needing to be sure that when those = trackers arrived on the south side, under the chancel, they would be = coming up through the chancel floor, and arriving in just the right = place. I had a few nightmares about that until it all came together and = worked. Back to Finale, Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gfc234@aol.com=20 To: firstname.lastname@example.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 2:18 AM Subject: Re: fads in organ-building In a message dated 4/5/2004 11:53:02 PM Central Daylight Time, = email@example.com writes: The problem is compounded by a divided chancel and/or a divided=20 organ, though I have played a few where the trackers ran under the=20 chancel to the other side. Dobson has encountered and overcome this exact situation on two organs = in my neighborhood. The manuals are tracker action, and the pedal, = which is on the opposite side of the chancel, is electric action. Both = are wonderful. Check them out: http://www.dobsonorgan.com/html/instruments/op64_evanston.html http://www.dobsonorgan.com/html/instruments/op81_kenilworth.html. Hope everyone's Holy Week and Easter services go well. cheers,=20 gfc Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile firstname.lastname@example.org
(back) Subject: Re: Vibrato and Pastoral Care From: "bobelms" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:17:40 +0800 Well, Bud, it underlines the vast gulf between the situation over there = and the situation here. I know all the members of my choir personally and have done so for 30 plus years in most cases. Yes, they are getting on in years as I am also. They would not approach me for pastoral care of any kind, = but would approach the minister or an Elder. In this state about 99% of organists would be weekenders plus choir practice, and either are retired (as I am) or have a full time job during the week. My remarks about attending a Seminary for training in pastoral care still apply. I would have no use for it, and neither would most, if = not all, of my colleagues. Nor would I feel that I can adequately deal with their spiritual welfare. I would not presume to venture into the = minister's field. I don't think he would be very keen on me doing that. It's his business. By the way, did I miss something? Where does vibrato come into pastoral care? I discouraged my singers from using vocal vibrato. It affects the tuning! Of the voices of course. Seldom agree Bud? I wouldn't say that. Maybe I should make more fuss of = what you say with which I do agree and there is a fair amount of that! Bob Elms. ----- Original Message ----- From: <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: "PipeChat" <email@example.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 1:17 PM Subject: Re: Vibrato and Pastoral Care > Bob and I seldom agree, and this case is no exception. My POINT was that > the organist/choirmaster has a DUTY to have a care about the spiritual > well-being of his volunteers AS IT TOUCHES UPON THE MUSIC PROGRAM. > > Some examples: >
(back) Subject: Re: fads in organ-building From: "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Hello, It is important, I think, to be exact in what it is we want to say (he replies loftily!) The term "Germanic Organs" means absolutely nothing musically, but a great deal geographically. I can think of no good reason why an organ speaking into an acoustic dead as witches' what-not, should not be "werkprinzip"......but I am assuming that the organ builder knows what he is about. As for acute Mixtures, Schulze used any number of them, and voiced brightly (especially at Doncaster PC) but of course, he CONTROLLED them, spent many, many hours on them and got them in balance. I suppose it's the difference between those who care, and those who don't.....Schulze CARED about the sound he produced. Now what was it he said? "I can give dem my scales, but I cannot give dem dis." (He pointed at his ear) As for the reeds, it has to be said that Schulze was utterly hopeless, and in any event, bought the things ready made. Lewis was, of course, his equal in an Anglican way, but produced far better reeds on modest wind pressure. So if you want to know what a REAL Anglican organ should sound like, then go to Southwark Cathedral in London. That to which Bud alludes, is but the Edwardian corruption of Victorian clarity and good taste; the heavy pressures, booming Open Woods and unblending reed tones the absolute anathema of good organ and accompaniment tone. Oddly enough, Norman & Beard Ltd., who had taken over the interests of Hope-Jones, and went on to absorb William Hill & Sons and build "Christie" cinema organs, spent a long time worrying about heavy organ tone in churches; knowing that the Edwardian experiment was but the musical cul-de-sac it turned out to be. As for fractional length reeds, they have a place in organ design but seldom work in dead acoustics. That said, I know an organ in a very dead acoustic which has a most attractive extended Dulzian unit at 16,8 & 4ft available on manuals and pedals. On the other hand, the badly scaled, "almost" half-length 32ft reed at Doncaster (Schulze) is a musical travesty!! As for 2ft Principals on a Choir division, I would suggest that there is nothing wrong with that. However, when it comes to accompaniment, I always prefer an enclosed Choir division. Of course, even with a tracker actioned, slider chest, it IS possible to have a split Choir Organ....part enclosed and part un-enclosed combining the best of both worlds. Think about this:- CHOIR ENCLOSED CHOIR UNENCLOSED Stopped Diapason 8 Gedackt 8 Dulciana 8 Koppel Flute 4 Unda Maris 8 Principal 2 Gemshorn 4 Quint 1.1/3 Nason Flute 4 Nazard 2.2/3 Recorder 2 Tierce 1.3/5 Scharf IV Dulzian 16 14 stops and a LOT of possibilities, with the 4 unenclosed stops fulfilling the needs of "werkprinzip" if voiced boldly. Of course, there are lots of other possible stop lists which would achieve the same thing, but I dash this down as an example of a Choir Organ with a dual function and not too OTT. Lastly, with the swell doors shut, and a small cabinet in front of them, the unenclosed division could even enjoy the bloom of a classical tone-cabinet. For those who might worry about the 8ft Gedackt impeding the egress of sound from the enclosed pipework, the bottom octave of the Gedackt could be upside down and hung almost anywhere off the chest! Regards, Colin Mitchell UK --- email@example.com wrote: > I daresay Schulze, Hill, Lewis, > Brindley & Foster, etc. > never built an organ with a breaking-glass Zimbel > mixture pitched at > 1/4' or 1/8', or a Swell where the only reed was a > 1/8-length > Schnarrentrichterregal, or a Choir organ based upon > a 2' or a 1' Principal. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
(back) Subject: RE: Flag near alter From: "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Hello, Now my guess is that they have flags at the Cadet Chapel, West Point MA. Would I be wrong? Regards, Colin Mitchell UK --- Peter Rodwell <email@example.com> wrote: > I find the whole idea of displaying a national flag > in a place of worship bizarre. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
(back) Subject: Re: Flag near alter (altered to "altar") From: "Randolph Runyon" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:16:12 -0400 on 4/6/04 8:43 AM, Colin Mitchell at email@example.com wrote: > Hello, > > Now my guess is that they have flags at the Cadet > Chapel, West Point MA. > > Would I be wrong? > > Regards, > > > Colin Mitchell UK > NY, not MA. But you're probably right. Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio firstname.lastname@example.org
(back) Subject: RE: Flag near alter From: "Shirley" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:25:19 -0400 On 6 Apr 2004 at 9:50, Peter Rodwell expounded: > What next? A draw knob on the organ to raise the > flag (with half draw for funerals)? It already exists. The organ in the Auditorium at Ocean Grove, NJ, has a drawknob labelled "Flag". That turns on a garish (IMO) US flag made of = red, white, and blue lightbulbs that are programmed to "wave". But then, the Auditorium, while used primarily for worship, is not a = church per se, but is used also for a concert series that includes the organ, but also = includes other "acts". Saw Peter, Paul, and Mary there. --Shirley
(back) Subject: The Lewis organ in Southwark Cathedral From: "Bob Conway" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:40:25 -0400 Hi Colin, 'et al', Whenever I am in London I always try to get to all the Monday lunchtime organ recitals, - I have long thought that the Lewis organ is among the best in London. I have also been there for services, and as Colin says, = it does very well for the Anglican tradition. Now if they would only do something about the train noises from London Bridge station! Many years ago I took part in a performance there, which was more or less ruined by successive train noises accompanying us! Never-the-less, if you ever get the chance, go and hear it for your = selves! Bob Conway At 01:18 AM 4/6/2004, Colin wrote: >Hello, > >Well, in actual fact, the Anglican tradition managed >quite well with Germanic and even German organs, built >by Schulze, Hill, Lewis, Brindley & Foster etc etc. > >That was in the years approx 1855 to 1890, even though >the bigger Swell reeds and climax reeds of Willis were >gaining ground in the fashion stakes. > >Personally, I can think of very little Anglican music >which could not be very well accompanied on a fine >Lewis organ such as Southwark Cathedral; and Lewis was >building (more or less) Schulze copies. > >Regards, > > >Colin Mitchell UK > > >--- email@example.com wrote: > > > I continue to be MYSTIFIED at ANGLICAN churches who > > install germanic > > organs ... at least Anglican churches that propose > > to have a halfway > > traditional Anglican CHORAL program. > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway >http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org >Administration: mailto:email@example.com >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org
(back) Subject: Fads in organ-building? What's THAT? From: "Richard Schneider" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:28:19 -0500 firstname.lastname@example.org wrote: <*why* were these organs. . . replaced by others?> > They were replaced on account of fashion, mostly because organists > couldn't accept instruments on their own terms for what they WERE, <snip> > We lost a great chunk of our American organ heritage in the early 20th > century when electro-pneumatic and electro-mechanical action first > became popular. <snip> > Then, in the period following WWII, we lost a great many worthy examples > of THOSE, <snip> > NOW some of the GOOD examples of G. Donald Harrison's work and the > baroque revival are endangered. > And so it goes ... For the most part, I AGREE with Bud's post, but hasten to point-out that I think that the activity he describes is certainly more of a "big city" phenomenon than it is one that takes place in the "average" rural communities, such as where I live and work. I would be remiss to point out the NUMEROUS examples of both worthy, and the literally COUNTLESS (although the OHS Extant Organs lists has tried to do this!) examples of NOT WORTHY junk piles masquerading as pipe organs lurking in many churches, especially in the Midwest. Past church fathers (and mothers) would have done posterity a huge FAVOR, in many cases if these organs HAD been replaced. Even a Tornado or fire would have = resulted in an improvement in the situation (and many, MANY of these "piles" ARE just that: fires waiting to happen!!), but alas, in most instances, there is neither money, interest or a driving force to compel anyone to spend money to replace them. Farm types will NOT spend money on ANYthing unless and until they are absolutely FORCED (usually at gunpoint!) to do so! And nowadays, all too unfortunately, many examples of what could easily become WORTHY instruments are replaced by something pipeless rather unceremoniously because it is the path of least resistance and cost. And = I don't necessarily mean a "legitimate" pipeless organ, but a Keyboard that got picked up for a couple hundred bucks from the nearest Wal-Mart. You laugh. I'm NOT kidding! So around here, anyway, the rules are different but the names of the perpetrators are STILL hidden in order to protect the guilty! Fortunately, sometimes, some wonderful things DO happen even in non-avant-garde environments! Faithfully, G.A. -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO <>< Schneider Pipe Organs, Inc. 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (877) 944-2454 TOLL-FREE (217) 944-2527 FAX email@example.com Home Office EMAIL firstname.lastname@example.org SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com URL ADDRESS
(back) Subject: Re: Quote From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:33:15 -0400 On 4/5/04 9:12 PM, "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > Philips Brooks, he of "O Little Town of Bethlehem" fame; believe he was = a > clergyman (Episcopal?). Yes. Advent Church, Philadelphia. Then Holy Trinity, Philadelphia. Then many years at Trinity Church, Boston, capped off by a brief time as bishop of Massachusetts before his death. Alan
(back) Subject: Re: The Lewis organ in Southwark Cathedral From: <Cpmnhartus@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:37:08 EDT 5 April 2004 Dear Bob and List: Having played organ recitals in five different London venues, including Southwark Cathedral, I generally agree that the Lewis in Southwark is one = of the finest organs in London. There is another superb London organ, however, = and that is the splendid three manual Father Willis of the 1870s in Union Chapel, Islington. It is said to be "untouched", except for moving a 4' stop in = the Choir Organ to 2' pitch. An interesting feature of the organ is that it is = installed in a pit which open at the top. Because of this unusual setting, it has = the advantage of staying at a relatively constant temperature which is the = reason it stays beautifully in tune. I played a recital on it several years ago and the instrument reminded me = of the magnificent four manual Father Willis in Truro Cathedral where I = played a recital in 1996. One of my favorite London organs is the two manual Mander in St. Andrew's Holborn. George W. Bayley Copeman Hart America Lewes, Delaware
(back) Subject: Langlais & Mesiaen, was "Startling a few people" From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:15:23 -0400 Andres Gunther firstname.lastname@example.org "Dialogue sur les mixtures" from Jean Langlais makes a good final = voluntary IMO. The reactions of the people could be interesting. "From whom is the piece you played?", to: "That was... [interesting, awesome, awful... you name it]"; etc.- Messiaen and Langlais are difficult to understand composers for people who are not familiar with certain aspects of Christian, more specifc: catholic mysticism (for Messiaen: plus oriental religion's mysticism). I confess = here that I played, yes, but didn't understand their music until I was 30+. No reason to be ashamed- It was the same with Bach in the 1700s and Reger = in the 1900s.... Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.
(back) Subject: Venezuela National Anthem From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:16:51 -0400 Andres Gunther firstname.lastname@example.org This is rather off topic, but for the interested: MusicMan <email@example.com> asked: > Andres, > And can you let me know where (on the web) I might find a copy of this piece > ? YUK- to my shame, I don't know. I have the score in my library and play it from memory to my own arrangement for organ. Try on Google: "National anthems", or more specifically: "Himno Nacional = de Venezuela" OR, as lately named: "Himno Nacional de la Republica = Bolivariana de Venezuela". Title & beginning words: "Gloria al Bravo Pueblo". On-line-score publication isn't usual in my country yet, however. I hope = you get a hit. Short info: Alike "La Marsellaise", our National Anthem was a = "Revolutionary Chant" in Independence War Times (back in the 1810s). The melody, = developed from an ancient lullaby (no joke!), was attributed to Juan Jose Landaeta, but lately this is put into doubt by our musicologists. Its lyrics are = from Vicente Salias. Its musical structure is 3 stanzas with refrain. Usually we sing only the first stanza; in mass I play only the refrain. It's considered the musically most ellaborated and interesting N.A. in = South America. This statement is not from me but from my Contrapunct Instructor (who was a spanish immigrant). Cheers Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.
(back) Subject: RE: Vibrato and Pastoral Care From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:58:05 -0400 Andres Gunther email@example.com Friends, I only can agree again with Bud. I am not a degreed full-time choir = master, but had to care for a youth Schola from 1984 to 1989 and for the choir of the German Lutheran Congregation from 1996 to 2001. The latter mostly elderly people. And both volunteer groups. I learned from *both*, and sometimes the hard way, that conducting a singer's group is far more than beeing present at rehearsal, prepare the material, conduct and see for musical accuracy in performance. Personal contact, interest and concern, (viz: pastoral care) is a vital ingredient for a good choir. And pastoral care of my co-workers more than once = ensured me better results than mere training. A hint for those who cannot or don't want to make a pastorale care course = :) Dale Carnegie's "How to win friends and Influence People" was the best handbook I found up to this day for that. I read it once a year to refresh or feedback my human relationship habits. This works not only with choirs but for every kind of team you have to = work with... workshop teams, for example. Yours Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.
(back) Subject: Holy Week activities at La Candelaria Parish From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:58:34 -0400 Andres Gunther email@example.com Long, off topic, bandwidth consuming (sorry, David!) translation of the H= oly Week Activities Program of my parish church. It reflects our local Holy W= eek customs with great accuracy. Music Lists are not included- our repertoire and way to make church music is too different. [In square brackets] who i= s in charge of music. "Santa Cruz" Parish - "Nuestra Se=F1ora de La Candelaria" Parish Church; Caracas, Venezuela Parish: Msgr. Henry William Padilla Vicar: Pb. Felix Gonzalez [Organist: Rafael Andres Gunther] HOLY WEEK 2004 Council Friday, April 02 OUR LADY OF THE SORROWS REMEMBRANCE 7,30 am - 5,00 pm: Eucharisty Celebration 6,30 pm Solemn Eucharisty Celebration and Procession with the Image of Ou= r Lady of the Sorrows. [5,00 and 6,30 pm with organ] Palm Sunday, April 04: 7,30 am - 9,00 am - 10,30 am: Palms Blessing and Eucharisty Celebration 12,00 m: Solemn Palms Blessing at the square, and Procession to the churc= h. Solemn Eucharisty Celebration. [all with volunteer singers] 5,00 pm - 6,30 pm: Palms Blessing and Eucharisty Celebration [with organ] Holy Monday, April 05 Holy Tuesday, April 06 7,30 am - 5,00 pm: Eucharisty Celebration 6,30 pm: Solemn Eucharisty Celebration [5,00 and 6,30 pm with organ] On Monday: Procession with the "Man of the Sorrows" Image On Tuesday: Cross Stations Meditation at the square. Holy Wednesday, April 07 JESUS FROM NAZARETH ON THE WAY TO THE CALVARY REMEMBRANCE & CELEBRATION 7,30 am - 12,00 m - 5,00 pm: Eucharisty Celebration 6,30 pm: Solemn Eucharisty Celebration and Procesion with the Image of Je= sus from Nazareth [All celebrations with organ] Holy Thursday, April 08 INSTITUTION OF PRIESTHOOD AND EUCHARISTY BY OUR LORD 9,00 am *at Caracas Cathedral*: Eucharisty and blessing of the Holy Oil 5,00 pm: Solemn Eucharisty Celebration, Foot Washing, and Procession with the H.S. to the Exposition at the Monument. [with organ] Good Friday, April 09 PASSION AND DEATH OF OUR LORD FAST AND ABSTINENCE OBBLIGATORY! 7,30 am: Adoration of the HS at the Monument 12,00 am: Monument closes. Cross Station Meditation. 3,00 pm: Solemn Seven Words Meditation [all with volunteer singers] 5,00 pm: Solemn Good Friday's Liturgical Action. Communion. Procession wi= th the Holy Grave. [with organ] Holy Saturday, April 10 FAST & MEDITATION DAY - The Church will remain closed. 6,00 Pm Holy Water Blessing at the square. 8,00 Pm: SOLEMN RESURRECTION VIGIL & EUCHARISTY [with Schola Guitarum :), youth] Easter Sunday, April 11 9,00 am: Eucharisty, Blessing of the Elderly People [HS Brotherhood] 10,30 am: Eucharisty, Blessing of the Children [Schola guitarum :), adult= s] 12,00 m: Eucharisty, Blessing of the Youth, Procession with the HS [Schol= a Guitarum :), youth] 5,00 pm: Eucharisty, Blessing of the Couples [with organ] 6,30 pm: Eucharisty, Procesion with the image of the Resurrected Lord. [w= ith organ] A BLESSED EASTER TO ALL. Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.
(back) Subject: Re: Flag near alter From: "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:52:44 -0400 On 4/5/04 9:31 PM, "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> wrote: > an interest in government is part of a Christian's purview. Furthermore,= if > we pray for peace and, in general, good government, and are granted these > blessings to the extent that that we are free to meet and worship, then > displaying the flag of that government is part of thanksgiving. I was certainly with you (we pray for our government--and its leaders (etc.= ) by name--every Sunday) until that last line. I'm all for "thanking this country" for existing, but putting its flag in the chancel does spell thanksgiving for me. A small part of that is that people in our Sunday assembly are commonly visitors in this country, and I prefer to think of ou= r Sunday get-together as somehow transcending our (or their) nationalism(s). During that hour, we=B9re functioning citizens (together) of a different kingdom. =20 Alan
(back) Subject: Re: Venezuela National Anthem From: "Randolph Runyon" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:10:37 -0400 Andr=E9s, is this it? http://www.imagesoft.net/midi/venezuel.mid Doesn't sound like it could ever have been a lullaby, but it is a fine tune all the same. Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio firstname.lastname@example.org
(back) Subject: Re: Flag near alter From: "F. Richard Burt" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:09:40 -0600 Hello, Collin: > Now my guess is that they have flags at the Cadet > Chapel, West Point MA. > > Would I be wrong? Perhaps, more than that. The West Point Post Chapel (protestant) is at the United States Military Academy (the Military view all religions as Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish, ...until recently). One of the West Point Post Chapel websites shows a picture of the full length of the nave and I lifted this quotation from the supporting text.. . . "A Gothic-style Cadet Chapel houses original regimental battle flags going back to the Civil War; and the largest working church organ in the world is there." Give the author some editorial license <smiles>, but they are rather appreciative of that enormous organ that is in continuous use (and probably maintenance and repair). And, . . .yes, the Military folk have a very strong tradition of flags of many kinds. Let's don't go there, for it will get us into another two weeks of talking about ancillary subjects to organ building. <smiles> I am surprised that no one has bothered to correct the mis-spelling in the subject line. Just what flags are there near whatever we are altering, anyway? F. Richard Burt ..
(back) Subject: RE: Flag near alter From: "Sam Vause" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:28:55 -0700 This thread is SO off topic. And "altar" is misspelled. --sam -----Original Message----- From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:10 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Flag near alter > Now my guess is that they have flags at the Cadet...
(back) Subject: Re: Flag near alter From: "Randolph Runyon" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:35:33 -0400 on 4/6/04 11:28 AM, Sam Vause at firstname.lastname@example.org wrote: > This thread is SO off topic. And "altar" is misspelled. > --sam > > But I pointed that out already! (the misspelling). Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio email@example.com