PipeChat Digest #4432 - Monday, April 12, 2004
 
RE: chicago style
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: Historic Organ On TV
  by "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net>
Holy Week & Easter Services
  by <OrganNYC@aol.com>
Re: Snobbery and Fear
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Forthcoming Program in Milwaukee 4/18/04
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Latin Translation
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
HOT CROSS BUNS
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: Forthcoming Program in Milwaukee 4/18/04
  by "John Seboldt" <rohrwerk@seboldt.net>
RE: HOT CROSS BUNS
  by "Mari" <mreive@tampabay.rr.com>
Re: HOT CROSS BUNS
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: HOT CROSS BUNS
  by "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org>
Simplified Arrangements
  by <Devon3000@aol.com>
RE: ETHICS-was Organ showpieces made playable (x-posted)
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
RE: Suite Gothique...
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Re: HOT CROSS BUNS
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: Simplified Arrangements
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
RE: HOT CROSS BUNS
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: HOT CROSS BUNS
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: HOT CROSS BUNS
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: HOT CROSS BUNS
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: HOT CROSS BUNS
  by "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>
Organists pay about to EXPLODE UPWARD!!!
  by <Quentsmith@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: RE: chicago style From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:06:42 +0100   I have both the music and the LP. It is played on a Hammond. That version = of "Now thank we all our God" (to the tune Gracias) has been accepted into = the canon, and is now a standard in several modern hymnals.   Will Light Coventry UK        
(back) Subject: Re: Historic Organ On TV From: "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:40:17 -0500   The organ was a Tannenberg and is the largest 2m that is in existence in a Moravian church. James Grebe Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair Artisan of Wood WWW.JamesGrebe.com 1526 Raspberry Lane Arnold, MO 63010 pianoman@accessus.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 10:13 PM Subject: Historic Organ On TV     > This might have been discussed, sorry if I'm asking for a repeat. . . > > My in-laws mentioned to me that they watch a TV show this morning = (Sunday) > that included a spot on some historic organ by some German maker (they tho't > it began with a "B") that had been dismantled many years ago and stored. In > the recent past, this organ was taken from storage and restored by = someone > in Virginia who had restored an organ of this make before. They were quite > impressed with the story of the restoration and said that the organ was > beautiful. That's all the details that my "non-organic" inlaws could > relate. > > I realize that most of us were in church in some capacity this Easter > Sunday, so we missed this show. Nevertheless, would anybody know the > details of this organ? > > Thanks, > Keith Zimmerman, M.D. > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >      
(back) Subject: Holy Week & Easter Services From: <OrganNYC@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:50:51 EDT   The service leaflets from my church are available for viewing in PDF on = the church's website: www.heavenlyrest.org. Click on Parish Communications.   Easter Day was the 75th anniversary of the opening of our Neo-Gothic/Art = Deco building on Fifth Avenue in New York City. Our prelude began with Karg-Elert's "Praise the Lord with Drums and Cymbals" as arranged by = Thomas Brantigan for Organ and Brass Quintet I recall that the Biggs recording at St. = George's NYC included percussion -- is that arrangement published? The Offertory = Anthem was the stunning and very effective "Surrexit a Mortuis" for two organs = and choir by Ch-M. Widor. Wilma Jensen arranged the Orgue d'choeur part for = brass quintet and tympani. The Sequence Anthem -- "As it began to dawn" by = George Clement Martin -- was presented on that Sunday in 1929. The postlude this = year was not the Widor Toccata, but the "Hallelujah Chorus" from Messiah, since = that same piece was performed as the postlude by organ and orchestra in 1929. = We used the Canadian Brass arrangement for organ and brass -- I think by Tom = Hicks -- but not S. Drummond Wolff as the program shows. We added the tympani part.   Steve Lawson Assisting Organist Church of the Heavenly Rest - NYC        
(back) Subject: Re: Snobbery and Fear From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:58:18 EDT   In a message dated 4/12/2004 12:09:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, mike6514@hotmail.com writes:   > So, I think snobbery is a very inner place that people go to protect > themselves for what they wish to hear, but don't. > > Mike Franch > Madison, WI >   wow--send this to TAO   dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Forthcoming Program in Milwaukee 4/18/04 From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:26:49 -0400   On 4/11/04 7:27 PM, "John Seboldt" <rohrwerk@seboldt.net> wrote:   > Anyway, we hope to make a joyful noise in Milwaukee; we'll record it and > post a snip or two on the website for all to enjoy.   John, I really enjoyed that post. In the 50s I used to visit both Central, Minneapolis, and Our Saviour=B9s, Milwaukee, for one thing or another; I don=B9= t know why I have NO idea what they had for organs in those days. Knew that Central now has a Casavant, but hadn=B9t even heard that O.S. did as well. I recall the seating capacity of Central being about 2500, so the need for a big organ there is no surprise; O.S., by contrast, can=B9t be a whole lot mor= e than 1000, is it? =20   I happy to be a big admirer of Mark Sedio, at the helm at Central; they mus= t have a BALL on Sunday morning! Who=B9s on the bench at O.S.?   I expect that your coming event will be a stunner, and look forward to a full report!   Alan Freed www.stlukesnyc.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Latin Translation From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:37:50 -0400   On 4/11/04 8:12 PM, "Robert Nickel" <rnickel@charter.net> wrote:   > Adoramus te. Benedicimus te, Christe. Qui tollis peccata mundi. > Bob: We worship you. We bless you, Christ. Who takes away the sin(s) of the world.   Alan    
(back) Subject: HOT CROSS BUNS From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:39:02 +0100   Here's a strange question. Do you Americans out there have HOT CROSS BUNS? = A friend of ours, the wife of a previous pastor who has had a serious = stroke, wants to know. Don't ask me why - she just does!     Will Light Coventry UK      
(back) Subject: Re: Forthcoming Program in Milwaukee 4/18/04 From: "John Seboldt" <rohrwerk@seboldt.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:53:24 -0500   At 09:26 AM 4/12/04 -0400, you wrote: >John, I really enjoyed that post. In the 50s I used to visit both >Central, Minneapolis, and Our Saviours, Milwaukee, for one thing or >another; I dont know why I have NO idea what they had for organs in those =   >days. Knew that Central now has a Casavant, but hadnt even heard that >O.S. did as well. I recall the seating capacity of Central being about >2500, so the need for a big organ there is no surprise; O.S., by = contrast, >cant be a whole lot more than 1000, is it?   Definitely smaller at Our Savior's - but a longer nave with a barrel = vault, as opposed to the more square layout of Central. Definitely a richer acoustic in Milwaukee, though still not super-live - concrete block walls, =   apparently something absorptive in the barrel vault, and aisle/sanctuary carpeting.   Yes, the 50's would predate both instruments. Our Savior's limped along with an electronic in the years from construction (1950?) till organ install (1963?) - a front chamber, sideways-facing, is provided, but of course Larry Phelps would have nothing of it and put in the stunning back gallery installation. Another correspondent reminded me that the = dedicatory recital was played by none other than E. Power Biggs!   The Central/Mpls instrument uses both those side chambers you may remember =   (Swell and Choir, some pedal perhaps), but also a nice central pipe array with Great and Positiv free-standing (Positiv above Great, I believe).   Program at Our Savior's is relatively basic at the moment - a good solid organist named Gary Wood, choir director Mike Barna - no true music director, but good solid worship planning. A more eclectic service (a variety of world/ethnic music) is provided also. They've fallen on harder times than Central Lutheran, but are committed to urban ministry and working hard at it.   Yes, Mark Sedio at Central/Mpls can provide an interesting mix of classic and eclectic - not all the old timers like it (my parents, who are members =   there, are not impressed...) but hey, you can't please everybody.   Will post some recorded snippets (if we practice hard enough, that is :-) = )...   John Seboldt Milwaukee, WI www.seboldt.net for this program, see www.seboldt.net/annunciation/oursavior/    
(back) Subject: RE: HOT CROSS BUNS From: "Mari" <mreive@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:53:46 -0400   Re: Forthcoming Program in Milwaukee 4/18/04Yes we do. It's not the important GF connexion and I doubt if most people even know the legend. Mari -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Will Light Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 9:39 AM To: 'PipeChat' Subject: HOT CROSS BUNS     Here's a strange question. Do you Americans out there have HOT CROSS = BUNS? A friend of ours, the wife of a previous pastor who has had a serious stroke, wants to know. Don't ask me why - she just does!       Will Light Coventry UK    
(back) Subject: Re: HOT CROSS BUNS From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:58:06 -0400   On 4/12/04 9:39 AM, "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> wrote:   > Here=B9s a strange question. Do you Americans out there have HOT CROSS BUNS= ? A > friend of ours, the wife of a previous pastor who has had a serious strok= e, > wants to know. Don=B9t ask me why =AD she just does!   The short answer is =B3yes.=B2 Don=B9t recall just when or where I=B9ve last seen them, but it wasn=B9t THAT long ago. No one bakes at home nowadays, but they are a staple of bakeries at Holy Week/Easter, at least in quite a few citie= s and neighborhoods.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: HOT CROSS BUNS From: "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:18:23 +1000   Hello Will Light On Monday 12 April 2004 11:39 pm, you wrote:   > Here=E2=80=99s a strange question.   And here's one in return.   Do they start appearing in the supermarkets in JANUARY (in either USA or UK= )=20 as occurs down here in OZ!     =2D-=20 Roger Brown roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org    
(back) Subject: Simplified Arrangements From: <Devon3000@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:27:35 EDT   Hi all,   I have quietly kept out of the fray on this issue, and thank Gregory C. = for gently suggesting my feelings also. Every time someone suggests that I = have unusual musical talent regarding the organ, I try to simply tell them that = I "pay my dues" every time I learn a new piece. There are no short cuts to excellence, and I realize that is a bad word these day, but I'm sorry. I = have not realized yet that Widor's famous toccata is out of reach to so many = organists. Anyone who will practice it slowly for a great length of time can learn = and perform it. I hear it all the time, usually done badly, but rarely = terribly.   When we start to allow short cuts to artistry, we're contributing as much = to the decline of organ popularity as those who play "academically correct" programs, which are getting a lot of unnecessary bashing these days also. =     I'm sensing some hostility towards those who have "paid their dues" by practicing and lots of giving up of other pursuits in order to concentrate = on playing organ music well. Those who know me know I'm not an "academist", = but just love the organ and its music. But I don't tolerate laziness, and can find = no excuse for a musician taking the short cut just to get out of the work. = And publishers who help this aren't doing us any favors either.   Wow! I rarely get that heated up over an issue, but I really feel we = should encourage more sweat equity in the organ field, both playing and building. = The public notices, and musicians especially let us know when we're coasting = or not working very hard at something I assume many of us love more than = anything else (It is possible to love more than one thing and still do all well, = though it requires many times the work of one passion to do several pursuits = well. Sometimes, we spread ourselves too thin).   Having mouthed off enough, I'll relax now, and get back to my organic passions.   Devon Hollingsworth, in DeKalb, Illinois    
(back) Subject: RE: ETHICS-was Organ showpieces made playable (x-posted) From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:49:42 -0400   Gregory has made some good points.   I think that it depends on who's playing the simplified arrangement: an = amateur (i.e., someone who is playing for the love of it), or someone = being paid to do a job. There's no doubt that in most occupations, = those who label a product as one thing but give the customers something = shoddier can rightly get into trouble. Why should we be exempt? If a = simplified arrangement is used, the arranger as well as the composer = should be identified in the program.   On the other hand, as Victoria writes: "I remember, as a child taking = piano lessons, that the 'easy' arrangements piqued my curiosity about = the 'real thing' enough to push me to the next level of playing." That = was true for me, too. When I was ten, I learned a simplified = arrangement of "Clair de Lune" and loved it so much that I learned the = original, too, at least more-or-less.   And I wouldn't have anything against simplified arrangements of choral = music. Isn't that what every piano reduction of an orchestral = accompaniment amounts to? We use those routinely. When is an = arrangement a simplification vs. another piece entirely? The junior = choir I grew up in sang anthems based on various pre-existing melodies. = Only years later might I hear Brahms' Academic Festival Overture or = Haydn's St. Anthony Chorale and they would already be somewhat familiar = because I had sung the melodies.      
(back) Subject: RE: Suite Gothique... From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:02:22 -0400   Bob Elms writes:   > Perhaps we should take a lesson from the past. A hundred years ago = people flocked in their thousands to organ concerts often in large halls with = huge 19th Century organs by Hill, Walker and others. The programmes? Transcriptions of popular airs from many sources including opera, symphonies, musicals etc. Also played were Symphonies and other works = by Guilmant, Franck, Salome, Lefebure-Wely and others, the Romantics. This = was what the public wanted to hear and they came to hear it in thousands.   That was before radio, phonograph, TV, movies. There often wasn't even = an orchestra within reach. The choice was between hearing these works = on the organ or not at all. Entertainment of any kind was relatively = rare and precious.   Transcriptions? Fine, in moderation. But let's not deceive ourselves = into imagining that if we just go back to 100 years ago, our audiences = will, too. If I want to hear a orchestral symphony, given a choice = between hearing the original on a CD and a pale imitation on the organ, = most of the time I'll choose the recording.   But otherwise I agree with your points.  
(back) Subject: Re: HOT CROSS BUNS From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:13:51 -0400   At 09:39 AM 4/12/2004, Will Light wrote: >Here=92s a strange question. Do you Americans out there have HOT CROSS= BUNS?=20 >A friend of ours, the wife of a previous pastor who has had a serious=20 >stroke, wants to know. Don=92t ask me why =96 she just does!   Up here in Canada we do have Hot Cross buns, more or less all the year=20 round! I do not believe that there is any specific reason for this, other= =20 than that people obviously like to eat them! I very often make them for=20 us, as the ones they sell in the supermarkets aren't really up to much!   Bob Conway    
(back) Subject: Re: Simplified Arrangements From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:21:10 -0400   Several years ago, here in Kingston, Canada, I was asked to sing in a performance of Stainer's "Crucifixion", - but to my horror, they had a "Simplified Edition". I do not remember the publisher, but it was = terrible.   I tried to get them to change to the real edition, but with no success, although in my view the so-called simplified edition was not a lot easier than the Novello copy that I have, - all that they did was to leave some = of it out!   Never again!   Bob Conway    
(back) Subject: RE: HOT CROSS BUNS From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:21:38 +0100   Thanks to all for your answers. As for the appearances of various = things: Here in UK Christmas Decorations appear on August 1st. Easter Eggs = appear on about January 1st. but some types of eggs (Cadbury's Cream Eggs) are = with us all the year round, as are Hot Cross Buns. They have ceased to be = seasonal at all as far as I can see.   Will Light Coventry UK     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Roger Brown And here's one in return.   Do they start appearing in the supermarkets in JANUARY (in either USA or = UK)   as occurs down here in OZ!     --=20 Roger Brown      
(back) Subject: Re: HOT CROSS BUNS From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:59:03 -0400   On 4/12/04 10:18 AM, "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org> wrote:   > Do they start appearing in the supermarkets in JANUARY (in either USA or = UK) > as occurs down here in OZ!   I'm not a careful observer, but I don't think so. I'm not sure I even associate them so much with supermarkets as with smaller "neighborhood" bakeries, especially in sort of ethnic neighborhoods. (Uh, depending on = the ethnicity, of course.)   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: HOT CROSS BUNS From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:23:21 -0400   Here=B9s more about them, including the lyrics.   On the first day of Lent and during the six weeks that follow, many bakerie= s and homes bake hot cross buns. They are generally only served during the Lenten season, preserving their Christian significance. Yet they are probably the outgrowth of the ancient pagan sacramental cakes eaten by Anglo-Saxons in honor of their goddess "Eastore.": Supposedly the early clergy tried to stop the use of the sacramental cakes but as they could not= , they gave them Christian meaning by blessing them and decorating them with the cross. The Italian Tortona is a twist of dough baked around a colored egg. Similar breads are found in many other countries.   Another story of the hot cross bun dates back to England over one hundred and fifty years ago. A widow who lived at Bow in the East End of London, so the story goes, was expecting her son to come home from sea. On Good Friday= , she saved a bun for him but he never returned. It is said that patrons of inns in England still follow this custom in her honor. (I don't understand this story but I tell it to you for what it's worth.)   And have you ever sung this song? (The meter=B9s a bit funny: 6 8 3, 6 6 8 3.)   Hot Cross Buns! Hot Cross Buns! One a penny, Two a penny, Hot Cross Buns! If you have no daughters, Pray give them to your sons! One a penny, Two a penny, Hot Cross Buns!   Alan      
(back) Subject: Re: HOT CROSS BUNS From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:33:27 EDT   Dear Will,   Very little appears to be "seasonal" anymore here in the US, though it = does vary by region. As a native New Englander who has also lived in Texas, I = do notice that Christmas (and other holiday) decorations and products appear = EARLIER in Texas than they do here in the New England. Christmas trees, = especially, often stay up until Lent (!) in some Texas homes and I have seen them = installed before our Thanksgiving holiday in November--time was that it was = considered bad taste to decorate for Christmas before Thanksgiving. Now, of course, = one can see Christmas decorations in the stores before All Saints' Day!   As for Hot Cross Buns, as far as I can tell they're everywhere. Someone on =   the list suggested that most people don't make them at home, which is = probably true,but I do bake them. I received a recipe, and the story, from my Great-Grandmother (a native of Stratford-upon-Avon) and baking them each = year brings me back fond memories of Nan's comfy, "English" kitchen in rural = Massachusetts. As for Cadbury's Creme Eggs, I believe we Yanks have them in the = supermarket year round as well--though I can only eat two a year lest I turn into a = bottle of treacle.   A good Lenten tradition not mentioned in this thread is Austrian, rather = than British, and I developed a taste for it while living in Vienna: Krapfen = (aka "Bismarcks" in Northern New England and Jelly Filled Doughnuts in most = other US localities). As to why one would eat such a decadent thing during Lent = has never been adequately explained to me by an Austrian--or by anyone else, = for that matter. But, they're delicious!   Happy Easter (and apologies for less-than-organ content), Bill H.    
(back) Subject: Re: HOT CROSS BUNS From: "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:38:01 -0400   Yep. They're only around in Lent. Are buns with candied fruit in them = and a cross on top of icing (frosting).   Yummy. And fattening.   --Shirley   On 12 Apr 2004 at 14:39, Will Light expounded:   > Here's a strange question. Do you Americans out there have HOT CROSS > BUNS? A friend of ours, the wife of a previous pastor who has had a > serious stroke, wants to know. Don't ask me why - she just does! > > > > Will Light > Coventry UK > >        
(back) Subject: Organists pay about to EXPLODE UPWARD!!! From: <Quentsmith@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:54:50 EDT   Dear Fellow Organists,   In a newspaper article published this morning (Monday April 12, = 2004) in the Press Democrat of Santa Rosa, California the following excerpts = were written by Randy Lewis of the Los Angeles Times, the editor of Pop Music = for the Los Angeles Times:   Headline: VIOLINISTS' PAY-PER-NOTE DEMAND COULD HAVE GLOBAL CONSEQUENCES   The first paragraph: "Sixteen violinists in the Beethoven Orchestra = of Bonn, Germany, recently sued that organization demanding a pay raise. = Their gripe? They play more notes per day in and out than violists, = clarinetists, trumpeters or, God help the slackers, timpanists."   "The argument is that their parts are more complicated and keep = them sawing away while many of their fellow orchestra members are, in effect, twiddling their thumbs counting rests."   Well, Boys and Girls, now is the time to take out your calculators (remember when math was a questionable subject?) and prepare to figure out = your new salaries.   As soon as the court rules you will have a factor to use in calculating all the notes of your simple hymn, recitation pieces and = concert works. All sorts of permutations exist now. For instance someone has to be able to = count the notes...a new industry of note counters will pop up so the performer = won't have to. Of course, the problem also pops up, what to pay them for = counting? But isn't that how new industries spring up out of nowhere?   I am sure you will all have some way of keeping this new revelation = in context and within our parameters of good taste.   You may email Mr. Randy Lewis at: randy.lewis@latimes.com.   Quentin Smith