PipeChat Digest #4464 - Thursday, April 29, 2004
 
Re: Swinging in Polite Company
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re Lowrey C300 - a problem.
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: Shady Pipe Organ Folks
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: Swinging in Polite Company
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
RE: Re Lowrey C300 - a problem.
  by <bsweeney@scotty.us>
Re: Chris Howerter wins again!
  by "Scott Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Combination Actions
  by "mack02445" <mack02445@comcast.net>
Virgil Fox on DVD
  by "nycchelsea@yahoo.com" <nycchelsea@yahoo.com>
Re: Re Lowrey C300 - a problem.
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Fraudulent Organ Firms
  by <Devon3000@aol.com>
Re: Fraudulent Organ Firms
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Fraudulent Organ Firms...oops
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Fraudulent Organ Firms
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Swinging in Polite Company From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:27:54 -0400   Been there. Done that. Didn't think twice.   -WG   > Hmmm... > > In my younger days, I went to camp for three years... > the church we attended on Sunday had a little 7 rank > Estey organ (made in 1911) which was rebuilt not too > long ago... > > I remember that for the Postlude, the organist (a > woman) swung into Barcarolle, from the Tales of > Hoffman by Offenbach... > > I'm wondering what the member of the list would think > when, as I did, they heard that selection played as a > postlude? > > Best wishes to all... > > Morton Belcher >      
(back) Subject: Re Lowrey C300 - a problem. From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:49:36 +0800   I recently bought a Lowrey Promenade (made 1976) from a friend sight unseen. When my friend went to get it packed up for transport he rang me rather upset as he said a hum had just come into the amplifier. The organ arrived and the 100 Hz hum brought me to the conclusion that the main = filter capacitor (7500uF) in the power supply had reached the end of its useful life. The hum was not very noticeable and probably a less critical ear = would not have picked it up in the first place. However, it soon became evident that the pedal organ was playing flat with = a few herz beat and that this was becoming worse. I wondered if it was the pedal organ flat or the manuals sharp but a Korg tuner soon measured A on the manuals as dead on 440Herz and the pedal at 430 Hz.   I got a service manual from a firm to which I was directed by members of = a list. It arrived today. Ye gods and little fishes! What a complicated machine! I am used to reading circuit diagrams from my experience in electronics but this one is a pearler! I found how to tune the main organ = to A440 but not a word about the pedal tuning can I find.   Questions: Is it likely that a dried out filter capacitor has caused the lowering of voltages on the pedal bcircuit board to the extent that it is playing flat, and will the replacement of this capacitor and the checking = of voltages to bring them to the correct level be likely to cure the problem. Or is the hum responsible for the lowering of the pedal pitch (I can't see why). Lowered votage on the pedal circuit board is the only way I can see = it at present.   Incidentally the Accompaniment to Pedal coupler brings down the stops from the manual OK but they are of the same pitch as the pedal stops - A 430, = but still A440 on the manual.. I will keep checking the pitch of the pedal to see whether it is slowly dropping in pitch as I suspect it is.   This seems to be a very nice instrument with good sound in spite of the = fact that it is not digital. Bob Elms.    
(back) Subject: Re: Shady Pipe Organ Folks From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:14:07 -0400   WOW! Charlie, I had no idea what had preceded the advent of Justin = Kramer's Organ in your church. The guy who took that church to the cleaners really needs to be hung up to dry somewhere public. I have, of course, attended Sunday morning at this place, and am struck immediately by the realization that, had it not been for this horrible con, you would be playing on 28 ranks instead of Justin's 14. I know what you do with those 14, which is amazing, so what might have been had you been given twice that many? Was everyone too timid to try to bring this guy to justice? I'd love to see "Judge Judy" turned loose on the likes of him. This congregation of such sweet people did not deserve this, but their gentle nature made them an = easy mark, I suppose, and, of course, it would not have happened had you been around there then. You mention the following, about another church known = to you, and it suggests a thing or two:   "Especially when the organbuilder was, apparently, totally uninformed -- or completely unsympathetic with -- the overall nature of the musical worship of the congregation. I say that because the organ they got is so far removed from what they do, musically, that either it was willfully made that way, or the builder just didn't know. Or care."   One has to ask if there was an even remotely alert Organist there at the time, one who had some sense of what is appropriate for the music he = needed to make for the form of worship in place. But failing that, this makes a strong case for a good consultant. Maybe there are some horror stories = with consultants, too. I guess there is no harm in naming names, and others reading this will have more examples of good consultants they have used. = We have done a number of jobs in which Barbara Owen was consultant. This is a lady who spends lots of time talking with the people involved in the = worship of a congregation, and translating what they tell her into pipes and their configuration. She helps them clarify just what it is that represents meaningful worship to them. She does not ever say, in response to what she is hearing: "Oh no, you (and God) really don't want that. What you surely need is a Bach Cantata every Sunday, or a Grand Mass by Gounod," or whatever. Anyway, Charlie, those are two very sad stories you bring, and there are a lot of "what ifs" to dream about, but the water is clearly = over the dam, never to be recalled.   I know a lot of Organbuilders, and I guess I am just not personally acquainted with the charlatans, because all I know are devoted to = providing each congregation with which they deal with an instrument of artistic integrity at a fair price. I don't know any millionaire Organbuilders, unless they have won a lottery somewhere.   When I was a Juilliard student, I played for a synagogue in Jersey City. There was a Moller Organ in the gallery, and I arrived as a major Organ rebuilding project was underway. I wandered through the chamber of what = was the finished product, and noticed that the new 8' Great Principal = specified in the contract was only new down to Tenor C. The rest was a badly split = and very audibly leaky Open Wood. In those days, I was totally innocent of questions of wide and narrow. Might it have been better to have patched up the entirety of the possibly broadly scaled 8' Open? What did I know then, in the early 60s, of the battle that was raging all around us - a sort of diet craze for Organs - Thin is in! But apparently unlike Desir=E9e's situation, I had a contract, signed by all, to go on, and so I informed = the Rabbi, and they wrote to the late, not terribly lamented, New Jersey Organ guy to the effect that they were owed 12 more pipes. Well, by gosh, we got them, and I felt terribly pleased with myself, and from that day on, said lamented Organ guy probably had a contract out on me! BUT, there WAS a contract, possibly in part because the Cantor was a lawyer! We won't = discuss his cantoring!   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:50 PM Subject: Shady Pipe Organ Folks     > In defense of Desir=E9e [not that she needs defending, of > course!], I point to the experience my church had back in > the 1960s when they set about purchasing a new pipe organ. > They were, essentially, HAD by a swindler. > > No, they were not stupid, or naive, or devoid of good > business practice. The one thing they DID lack -- as does, > what, 99% of humanity?, was knowledge of pipe organs - how > they work, what they cost, what's involved in getting them > repaired, etc. There is only so much information a church > committee can learn in the process of getting a pipe organ. > Especially in instances where they have never had one > before, and their organist is also not trained on or > experienced with them. > > Most of the time, even in situations where there ARE learned > people on the committee, churches are at the mercy of organ > builders and they do go in with a sense, an expectation, > that the builder they choose will be honest and forthright. > Sad to say, it does not always happen that way. Some organ > builders are all too ready to do little work, put in little > material, and charge big money. > <BIG SNIP> to the end.      
(back) Subject: Re: Swinging in Polite Company From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:05:41 -0700   > >Charlie wrote: > >Yes, with all due respect, the writer is quite wrong in this >>regard. I do it every Sunday. So does Monty Bennett. And a >>few others who would never admit to it in polite company! > >I think that there are more out there who WANT to do it, but think >that the SHOULDN'T do it. Get over it, let your hair down and have >fun....more organists need to relax and enjoy the instrument.   I may have told this before..but there was this time my wife and I took an educational trip to view various styles of organ building, arranged through Westminster choir College. After several days of staid "organ-izing" by this group who were all AGO'rs ( and rolled their eyes when I mentioned theatre organs) - but I 'll admit one young lady made Woolsey Hall breathe fire with a French piece - we ended our 3 day tour in a Connecticut mansion with an Aeolian player organ in a gorgeous music room. The owner got tired of his rolls and wanted live music. After some more formulaic organ playing he offered wine and cheese to all, and the wine was very good. After a few rounds, suddenly trems began to come on, and the music took on a whole different tone: pop tunes, broadway etc. It was the first time I really saw all having a grand time! . What does this mean? I won't hazard to guess.. but if you feel inhibited, take a bigger gulp at communion? JUST KIDDING folks!! Please!   So yes, organs CAN be fun!   John V  
(back) Subject: RE: Re Lowrey C300 - a problem. From: <bsweeney@scotty.us> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:55:50 -0400   First check that all the ground connections are good. Sometimes when a = unit with circuit boards is move around and / or transported, the ground wires can come loose or the solders that connect the board to ground can crack. This will cause a hum that is difficult to locate.   As far as checking out the filter capacitors, if you have an oscilloscope measure the output of the filter with the scope input in AC mode and = observe the amount of ripple. Play a loud note, something that draws some power from the amplifier and watch the ripple. It should increase a little. If the filter is dry or open the ripple will be large and the capacitor = should be replaced. The ripple measured peak to peak should be less than 5% of = the DC voltage. The less the better.   Bob Sweeney   -----Original Message----- From: bobelms [mailto:bobelms@westnet.com.au] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:50 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re Lowrey C300 - a problem.     I recently bought a Lowrey Promenade (made 1976) from a friend sight unseen. When my friend went to get it packed up for transport he rang me rather upset as he said a hum had just come into the amplifier. The organ arrived and the 100 Hz hum brought me to the conclusion that the main = filter capacitor (7500uF) in the power supply had reached the end of its useful life. The hum was not very noticeable and probably a less critical ear = would not have picked it up in the first place. However, it soon became evident that the pedal organ was playing flat with = a few herz beat and that this was becoming worse. I wondered if it was the pedal organ flat or the manuals sharp but a Korg tuner soon measured A on the manuals as dead on 440Herz and the pedal at 430 Hz.   I got a service manual from a firm to which I was directed by members of = a list. It arrived today. Ye gods and little fishes! What a complicated machine! I am used to reading circuit diagrams from my experience in electronics but this one is a pearler! I found how to tune the main organ = to A440 but not a word about the pedal tuning can I find.   Questions: Is it likely that a dried out filter capacitor has caused the lowering of voltages on the pedal bcircuit board to the extent that it is playing flat, and will the replacement of this capacitor and the checking = of voltages to bring them to the correct level be likely to cure the problem. Or is the hum responsible for the lowering of the pedal pitch (I can't see why). Lowered votage on the pedal circuit board is the only way I can see = it at present.   Incidentally the Accompaniment to Pedal coupler brings down the stops from the manual OK but they are of the same pitch as the pedal stops - A 430, = but still A440 on the manual.. I will keep checking the pitch of the pedal to see whether it is slowly dropping in pitch as I suspect it is.   This seems to be a very nice instrument with good sound in spite of the = fact that it is not digital. Bob Elms.   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: Chris Howerter wins again! From: "Scott Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:25:27 -0700 (PDT)   Congrats Chris! I was the first winner of that award. The Walker organ = out there is a lot of fun, although the room is very dead. Bryan will be = a great host! Scott Montgomery www.scottmontgomerymusic.net   David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> wrote: I am forwarding this on behalf of Stephen Roberts who isn't on this list but since Chris is Stephen asked that I post it for him.   CONGRATULATIONS Chris!!   David ************************************************************************ Dear List,   Christopher Howerter, a subscriber to several organ lists, just received word that he won the M. Louise Miller Scholarship Competition sponsored by the Bridgeport CT chapter of the AGO. Entrants submitted recordings of their playing, recommendations, and an essay. The prize is a $1,000 scholarship and a recital for the Bridgeport chapter in the upcoming season. Chris won over several excellent contestants, including a student who is a junior at Juilliard. Chris' audition tape including the Bach Fantaisie and Fugue in c minor, BWV 537, and the "Prelude, Fugue, et Variation" of Franck. M. Louise Miller, for whom the competition is named, is still very much alive. Ms. Miller was a prominent and very distinguished church musician in the Bridgeport area for many years, and is still active in the AGO chapter there as far as I know.   Chris has been my student since late last summer, and he's made tremendous progress in that time. Chris is a very talented and hard working young man, who really loves the organ and church music. I'm very proud of Chris, as you all can well imagine. This is the second competition that Chris has won in the past couple of months. In March Chris won the Charlotte Hoytt Bagnall competition, also here in CT. Chris will be a freshman in my organ class at Western Connecticut State University this fall. He's competing in several other competitions over the next few months, so with any luck, we may have some other good news soon. Stay tuned....   Stephen Roberts Western CT State University, Danbury, CT "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Combination Actions From: "mack02445" <mack02445@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:32:14 -0400   I believe, at least when I was actively employed in the organ trade, there were three main methods of combination systems. I am sure since solid state everything has changed. 1. Trapper is that, (Austin Type I call it) hold the piston trip the stop tab/knob. 2. Capture is the system (used by Aeolian-Skinner & others) that you pull the stops hit a "set" button and the piston and it captures your combinations. Last but not least, 3. Setter is a system that uses a switchboard somewhere on a console usually that has small switches for each stop and piston and you pick and choose which stop you want by " setting "a switch on or off.   Hope this is correct, as I remember it from the 60's when I was active in the trade. Wish I knew German <G>.   Cheers, Mack    
(back) Subject: Virgil Fox on DVD From: "nycchelsea@yahoo.com" <nycchelsea@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:45:48 -0700 (PDT)   Does anyone know if it is possible to purchase a DVD of the Virgil Fox/Liberace performance on the Michael Douglas show from the early 1970's?   Looking for DVD..not VHS.   Also looking for DVD's of other Fox and E.Power Biggs performances.   email back to nycchelsea@yahoo.com   Thanks!     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover  
(back) Subject: Re: Re Lowrey C300 - a problem. From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:48:46 +0800   RE: Re Lowrey C300 - a problem.Thank you Bob. Yes that is procedure I am = going to use. A 'scope is available and I can use one. The loss of pitch = in the pedal seems to indicate to me a lowered voltage on the = oscillator. Unfortunately the organ has its back to the wall and I will = have to get a gang in to move it before I can do any checking. The humn = was there before the organ was moved so it seems more likely to be = deterioration of the filter cap. that is the cause of the hum. There is = only one in the main supply, a 7500 uF.   Thanks again. Bob. Bob. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: bsweeney@scotty.us=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:55 PM Subject: RE: Re Lowrey C300 - a problem.     First check that all the ground connections are good. Sometimes when = a unit with circuit boards is move around and / or transported, the = ground wires can come loose or the solders that connect the board to = ground can crack. This will cause a hum that is difficult to locate.   As far as checking out the filter capacitors, if you have an = oscilloscope measure the output of the filter with the scope input in AC = mode and observe the amount of ripple. Play a loud note, something that = draws some power from the amplifier and watch the ripple. It should = increase a little. If the filter is dry or open the ripple will be = large and the capacitor should be replaced. The ripple measured peak to = peak should be less than 5% of the DC voltage. The less the better.    
(back) Subject: Fraudulent Organ Firms From: <Devon3000@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:14:26 EDT   Hi all,   I'm really getting tired of being led down a path of criticism of = something we haven't seen or heard first hand. I haven't seen the instrument in question, and Desiree has frequently stated that her mission is to replace = it with a Rodgers. So, why are we even discussing this?!!   We've never gone into so much detail about one particular supposedly bad = pipe organ before, and I suggest we take up another topic, and wait for the dedication of the new Rodgers to be posted. Enough, all ready!   Devon Hollingsworth, in DeKalb, Illinois    
(back) Subject: Re: Fraudulent Organ Firms From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:23:30 -0700 (PDT)   haha Devon! Actually, all I wanted to know was...what they think should happen to = those who are unethical to the trade and field. looks liek theres nothing = one does. Im assuming that most of these rebuilders are probably not = members of AIO or APOBA anyhow. Of course you and I both know, that money is the issue with a lot of = church needing better instruments. And thats the way it is at my church. = Hopefully we will get money to do pipe/digital. Both companies that have = come out to the church say that the room really is big. its exremely = wide.and we seat 625. On a relaly good Sunday, usually once amonth, we are = to capicity with about 40 people standing. So, we need a good sized = instrument. and a good sized total pipe...well theres just not the money. Desiree'     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: Fraudulent Organ Firms...oops From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:27:01 -0700 (PDT)   OOPS I think that what i mean is...I assume that most of these "third or = 4th party" rebuilders are not members of the AIO etc. Usually, primary = builders are, and the companies that ar every reputable, like = Thompson-Allen, i think.       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: Fraudulent Organ Firms From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:41:43 -0500   Have you been told by everyone concerned that "theres just not the money" or is this just your assumption? There are so many fine organs available for relocation, etc. that I think there is a solution for almost everyone that really wants a pipe organ. Before you buy loudspeakers, would you please give the pipe organ builders a chance at providing a real pipe organ for your needs? Don't sell your congregation short. There is always more money available for a real pipe organ than for loudspeakers. Roy Redman   "T.Desiree' Hines" wrote:   > haha Devon! > Actually, all I wanted to know was...what they think should happen to > those who are unethical to the trade and field. looks liek theres > nothing one does. Im assuming that most of these rebuilders are > probably not members of AIO or APOBA anyhow. Of course you and I both > know, that money is the issue with a lot of church needing better > instruments. And thats the way it is at my church. Hopefully we will > get money to do pipe/digital. Both companies that have come out to the > church say that the room really is big. its exremely wide.and we seat > 625. On a relaly good Sunday, usually once amonth, we are to capicity > with about 40 people standing. So, we need a good sized instrument. > and a good sized total pipe...well theres just not the money. Desiree' > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs