PipeChat Digest #4468 - Friday, April 30, 2004
 
Re: Organ Registration
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: The affordable pipe organ
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
John Scott at Ashmont
  by "Mark Nelson" <marknelson@cbfisk.com>
Trumpet on Swell or Great?
  by "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net>
Allentown Recital Bird Songs
  by "Stephen Williams" <stepwill@enter.net>
OHS (was Where Cameron is playing)
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
RE: OHS (was Where Cameron is playing)
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: Trumpet on Swell or Great?
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: Trumpet on Swell or Great?
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
RE: Where Cameron is playing
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: Trumpet on Swell or Great?
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Trumpet on Swell or Great?
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Great Trumpet vs. Swell Trumpet
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Great Trumpet vs. Swell Trumpet...sebastian
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Great Trumpet vs. Swell Trumpet...sebastian
  by "Stephen Best" <sbest@borg.com>
Re: OHS (was Where Cameron is playing)
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
RE: Trumpet on Swell or Great?
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: Trumpet on Swell or Great?
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4467 - 04/30/04
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Organ Registration From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:06:14 EDT   hey Gregory,   i played it at 17---go for it.   study what you have heard.   read what you can on organs played by Franck.   then go play it----try this and that.   LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN.   If it sounds good, and is successful in the room, use it!   if you intend to only use the current fad or only exactly what is = suggested, this advice will work well forever.   good luck   dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Re: The affordable pipe organ From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:10:26 EDT   In a message dated 4/29/2004 7:51:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DERREINETOR@aol.com writes: Sebastian,   Good for YOU. Thanks for the encouraging post. Bill H. SJE Hutchings op. 210 "Saved by the Holy Spirit and the Priest-in-Charge" in = 1997. yes but,   is a rebuilt Steinway a Steinway or a Steinway box with new action, = strings and so on?   There is a church in Bedford which kept the 2 manual tracker something or other and added the electronic to the balcony.........that takes care of = us all, those who wish to conserve(uh oh, can i say conservative on this list?) = and those of us who wish for variety and choice and more is usually better if = it sounds good.   i love it when both sides can win.   dale in Florida hiding his conservative face    
(back) Subject: John Scott at Ashmont From: "Mark Nelson" <marknelson@cbfisk.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:41:51 -0400   Here is John Scott's program for All Saints', Ashmont (Dorchester/Boston) for tonight at 7:30--Free will donation!!!!!!!   Nigel Allcoat Intrada from A Little Organ Suite Handel Concerto in G, Op 4.1 J S Bach Jesus Christus, unser Heiland BWV 688 Liszt/Guillou BACH ______________ Leighton Festival Fanfare Franck Cantabile Michael Nyman Fourths, mostly Whitlock Fantasie-Choral no. 1 in Db Vierne Symphony 6: Scherzo & Final   Organist Jeremy Bruns will be joining John Scott at St. Thomas, NYC, in = the fall.      
(back) Subject: Trumpet on Swell or Great? From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:18:44 -0400   List, As you know, this question comes from an amateur who has no formal = training in "registration" other than what I've picked up from = observation of others. . .=20   I've seen some stoplists with the 8' Trumpet (or Trompete) located in = the Swell division with something like a Clarinet or Krummhorn in the = Great. Other times I've seen the Trumpet located in the Great with the = Oboe/Hautbois in the Swell.   Most often I've used the Trumpet as a solo stop on the Swell accompanied = by the Great - as in Trumpet tunes played at weddings. When I've needed = a more full setting, I've coupled Swell to Great.   I grown to like the fullness obtained when a chorus reed is added to the = Great while the mixtures and upperwork are more subdued. IOW, there's = volume and fullness from the unison range instead of the shrillness of = just adding upperwork to the combination. This "fullness" was = noticeable when I went to the concert for the Mander at Peachtree Road = UMC in Atlanta.   1. Is there a science to deciding into which division one places the = trumpet? 2. I assume that the type of trumpet placed in the Great is a little = different in character to one that is placed in the Swell. 3. I realize that I need to get out of the mentality (promoted by the = old living room electronics) that the Swell is the solo manual while the = Great is the accompaniment manual. Beautiful solo combinations can be = played by Great stops while accompanied by Swell settings. 4. Is the placement of the Trumpet determined by a particular = style/genre of organbuilding? 5. Where have you found it most useful to have the Trumpet. 6. I'm glad to hear all sides of this issue.   I don't have a trumpet for my organ yet, but i would like to have one. = I will have an empty rank on my Great pitman chest which means that it = will be isolated to the Great and available to the Pedal thru coupling. = The Swell is on Unit chest(s), so it could be available anywhere in that = case.   Thanks for all y'all's thoughts, Keith  
(back) Subject: Allentown Recital Bird Songs From: "Stephen Williams" <stepwill@enter.net> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:51:21 -0400   John Speller wrote: Actually, it's the "Prelude" part I would query. I thought it was called "Pastorale and Aviary."   Yes, indeedy, it is called Pastorale and Aviary. Sorry about that . . just moving a little too fast here. I'll make sure it's correct in the program = .. .. thanks!   Shirley wrote: Aviary?   Yup . . seems the composer was taken with the call of a lark or some = similar birdsong, and assigns the 2' flute the task of mimicking tunes of these caged creatures. He doesn't call for a Rossignol (sp?), and even so, this organ doesn't have one those, YET :-)   Stephen      
(back) Subject: OHS (was Where Cameron is playing) From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:27:20 -0500   I've belonged to OHS from time to time over the last 25 years and have = been a faithful member for the last few years. I don't even know how to join my local Chicago chapter. More puzzling to me is why one is not automatically part of one's local community upon paying annual dues to OHS. With AGO, I belong to two local chapters, and this "enrollment" is part of the procedure. Just fill out the form, pay your dues, and off you go.   Would someone please tell me whom to contact for the Chicago chapter of = OHS. I do recall getting the Stopt Diapason years ago, so I must have done this back in the days before computers and the internet supposedly made everything easier for us.   Bob Lind   ----- Original Message ----- From: David Scribner <david@blackiris.com>   > Well, maybe you should think about joining! <grin> The OHS both the > National organization and the Local Chicago Chapter are wonderful > groups to belong to - much more fulfilling than the AGO! > > David      
(back) Subject: RE: OHS (was Where Cameron is playing) From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:29:40 -0500   Your local chapter, if there is one, will be listed in The Tracker, along with contact information.   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Robert Lind Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 9:27 AM To: PipeChat Subject: OHS (was Where Cameron is playing)   I've belonged to OHS from time to time over the last 25 years and have been a faithful member for the last few years. I don't even know how to join my local Chicago chapter. More puzzling to me is why one is not automatically part of one's local community upon paying annual dues to OHS. With AGO, I belong to two local chapters, and this "enrollment" is part of the procedure. Just fill out the form, pay your dues, and off you go.   Would someone please tell me whom to contact for the Chicago chapter of OHS. I do recall getting the Stopt Diapason years ago, so I must have done this back in the days before computers and the internet supposedly made everything easier for us.   Bob Lind   ----- Original Message ----- From: David Scribner <david@blackiris.com>   > Well, maybe you should think about joining! <grin> The OHS both the > National organization and the Local Chicago Chapter are wonderful > groups to belong to - much more fulfilling than the AGO! > > David     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org          
(back) Subject: Re: Trumpet on Swell or Great? From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:12:21 -0500   Well, given my druthers, when possible, if there can only be one trumpet = in an organ I prefer it to be in the swell, on unit action so it can be duplexed = to great and pedal. That way it can help with the "full swell" effect, but = still be a chorus reed for the great, and can be available for french tocattas = where you need it in the pedal. Better yet, if there's room in the swell box, = and money enough, unify it to 16' pitch so there's a 16' reed for pedal.   Andy     On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:18:44 -0400, Keith Zimmerman wrote > List, > As you know, this question comes from an amateur who has no formal > training in "registration" other than what I've picked up from > observation of others. . . > > I've seen some stoplists with the 8' Trumpet (or Trompete) located > in the Swell division with something like a Clarinet or Krummhorn in > the Great. Other times I've seen the Trumpet located in the Great > with the Oboe/Hautbois in the Swell. > > Most often I've used the Trumpet as a solo stop on the Swell > accompanied by the Great - as in Trumpet tunes played at weddings. > When I've needed a more full setting, I've coupled Swell to Great. > > I grown to like the fullness obtained when a chorus reed is added to > the Great while the mixtures and upperwork are more subdued. IOW, > there's volume and fullness from the unison range instead of the > shrillness of just adding upperwork to the combination. This > "fullness" was noticeable when I went to the concert for the Mander > at Peachtree Road UMC in Atlanta. > > 1. Is there a science to deciding into which division one places > the trumpet? > 2. I assume that the type of trumpet placed in the Great is a > little different in character to one that is placed in the Swell. > 3. I realize that I need to get out of the mentality (promoted by > the old living room electronics) that the Swell is the solo manual > while the Great is the accompaniment manual. Beautiful solo > combinations can be played by Great stops while accompanied by Swell > settings. > 4. Is the placement of the Trumpet determined by a particular > style/genre of organbuilding? > 5. Where have you found it most useful to have the Trumpet. > 6. I'm glad to hear all sides of this issue. > > I don't have a trumpet for my organ yet, but i would like to have > one. I will have an empty rank on my Great pitman chest which means > that it will be isolated to the Great and available to the Pedal > thru coupling. The Swell is on Unit chest(s), so it could be > available anywhere in that case. > > Thanks for all y'all's thoughts, > Keith       A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Trumpet on Swell or Great? From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:13:41 -0700     ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Zimmerman To: pipechat@pipechat.org   >I've seen some stoplists with the 8' Trumpet (or Trompete) located in = the Swell division with something like a Clarinet or >Krummhorn in the = Great. Other times I've seen the Trumpet located in the Great with the = Oboe/Hautbois in the Swell.   There are good arguments -- based on the literature -- for having a = 2-manual instrument's only Trumpet on the Great. But in my practical = experience of playing lots of organs ranging from glorious to abysmal over = a 50-year period, it is usually better to put the Trumpet in the Swell = (and a Clarinet/Cromorne on the Great). Having the chorus reed in the = Swell means that you have to modify composers' registrations, but doing so = is no big deal, and for most of the repertoire that requires reeds the = manuals are going to be coupled when they're used in any case. The = versatility of having the Trumpet under expression more than makes up for = the inconvenience/inauthenticity. (The English full Swell as an = accompanimental device is more valuable than dozens of possible = registrations in the literature.)   I currently play on a 33 rank 2 manual that, alas, has an 8' Trompete on = the Great and a 16'(TC)-8' Basson-Hautbois in the Swell. Even if the = Trompete were better than it is (it's bright, coarse, and a bit slow) it = would pose problems, and almost every week I find myself wishing that I = had been around in 1979 when the organ was built to whine and plead my = case.   MAF    
(back) Subject: RE: Where Cameron is playing From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:40:47 -0500   It's being played on an OHS-cited instrument.   =20   ________________________________   From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Scott Montgomery Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:04 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Where Cameron is playing   =20   What does the OHS have to do with this recital? Maybe I missed something   "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> wrote:=20   Oh ok...I have heard of that organ. I will try to come. But im not a member of OHS. I don't join a lot of stuff.=20       From Desiree'=20 T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html=20   ________________________________   Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/hotjobs_mail_signatu re_footer_textlink/evt=3D23983/*http:/hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/caree= r makeover>=20   ________________________________   Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/hotjobs_mail_signatu re_footer_textlink/evt=3D23983/*http:/hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/caree= r makeover>=20      
(back) Subject: Re: Trumpet on Swell or Great? From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:44:02 -0700 (PDT)   Hi Keith! Well, Im no authority here...but..ya know..im puttin my 2cents in lol. I think that all manuals should have an 8' trumpet. Sometimes, the great = trumpet is a little bit snappier than the swell trumpet. sometimes, not. = On instruments I have played with German flavor, the great trumpet is = round and smooth...with un accent de francais, its more keen and higher = pressured. Im sure that Mander at Peachtree with all its English flavor is = nice and balanced. If all the manuals have a trumpet or other lon = resonator stop they are usually different in character. (MMMMM all those = Georgia Peach organs lined up on Peachtree street make Atlanta the organ = capital of the south to me! I want to go back!) I was playing the Buxtehude Prelude Fugue and Chaconne this week on an = organ and for the fugue, I use a colorful flute register for swell and = choir, like 8, 4,2 and 1 and the pedal i use a few flues 8,4 and a reed 8. = I found that the crommorne on the pedal was too much and drowned out the = manual part, but the great trumpet was just right..actually the great flus = were too. SO..i just uses the great flutes 8 and 4 an the trumpet 8 and = coupled to the pedal, because the greta trumpet was the tone I wanted.   i say one on all mauuals...just like all manuals need a full principal = chorus. Thats just for my taste. Trumpets, from what i read, depends on = whats inside that boot and the resonator. closed shallots, open,English = tapered. Reeds are facinating to read about!     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: Trumpet on Swell or Great? From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:49:09 -0700 (PDT)   The Fritts at Pacific Lutheran U has long resonator reeds on ALL = manuals...16,8 on the great, 16,8,4 on the positif and 8 on the swell. = Great has 16 and 8 Trumpet, positif has french classical sounding Fagots = at 16,8,and 4 (i think a 4) and the swell has 8 Trumpet (along with vox = and hautbois)       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: Great Trumpet vs. Swell Trumpet From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:38:44 EDT   Dear PipeChatters: The fundamental issue in this discussion is that Trumpets placed in either the Great or Swell department have different functions, and if we = are limited to one, or feel it must do double duty, we are forced into a = compromise. In American practice of the mid-20th century, reedless Greats were in vogue, and it was felt that the Swell reed chorus could carry the reed = burden for the entire instrument. This made the Swell reeds too large for their function, but not quite bold or full enough for their Great function. = Eventually, the Swell was turned into nothing more than a Brustwerk with a thyroid = condition, and the 16' Dulzian + 8' Oboe was supposed to "simulate a full English = Swell." Well, it didn't work, because it couldn't possibly simulate anything other =   than what it was. I have had two projects in rapid succession in which I experienced = both ends of the continuum. At Temple Emanu-El, I had the rare opportunity to include four 16'/8'/4' full-length reed choruses on the manuals, grouped = by era and shallot style, with the added luxury of a "floating" Tuba section. Two = organs later, at the Mormon Center Chapel, we had room and budget for only one = reed. The consultants in Salt Lake City thought I was a bit conservative, since = my original plan had an 8' Trumpet, triplexed between the Great, Swell, and = Pedal, with an added 16' Pedal extension. In the end, they asked that I make the = 16' extension available in the Swell (for "full anthem sound"), and the reed available at 16', 8', and 4' in the Pedal. We all realized that this was a compromise -- that a large, solid 8' Trumpet on the Great for hymn singing was different than the caged blaze = of rich reeds roaring behind shutters for anthems, or an 8' Trompette and 4' = Clairon, plus cornet, for the Grand-Jeu (although the Trumpets ARE enclosed with = the cornet decompose in this instrument). Let literature and liturgical use guide you. On Wednesday, September 29, I shall be delivering a lecture at the = 2004 Convention of the American Institute of Organbuilders entitled, "What Goes =   Where and Why: Organ Literature as a Prescription for Tonal Design." If = you have not been to an AIO conference, or to New York City, the AIO welcomes you = and encourages you to attend.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City   ..  
(back) Subject: Re: Great Trumpet vs. Swell Trumpet...sebastian From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:09:55 -0700 (PDT)   Sebastian...I just might have to attend AIO simply to hear your workshop. = I think that the only thing I have seen builders do is give a great to = choir transfer, which is necessary to perform some of the bigger french = works with ease, IMHO. Like Litanies: you NEED to be able to put the great = onthe bottom so hands wont get crossed up when one gets to the parts where = you have right hand on positif and left on great...then rh on swell and lh = on positif. And then the registrations for that piece, and many others are = also, intricate and dont seem to get in some designs. What are you going = to discuss at this event? As far as the full anthem sound, I like that, but the reeds, to me, need = to be "chorusy" and not too blatty. I use that registration for a certain = hymn verses(who else does that? TONS of people). I have found that some = batteries of swell trumpets are so blasty that I couldnt do that.   Some great trumpets I have played have been bigger than swell trumpets, = and almost little sisters for a chamade.       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: Great Trumpet vs. Swell Trumpet...sebastian From: "Stephen Best" <sbest@borg.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:37:07 -0400   Hmmm...I have never had the opportunity to use an instrument with a great to choir transfer, and I have played and taught many of the "bigger french [sic] works" on instruments with the great as the middle keyboard. I can't think of a single occasion when I found it impossible (or even difficult) to play or teach these works. Am I missing = something?   Steve Best in Utica, NY   T.Desiree' Hines wrote:   > Sebastian...I just might have to attend AIO simply to hear your > workshop. I think that the only thing I have seen builders do is give > a great to choir transfer, which is necessary to perform some of the > bigger french works with ease, IMHO.        
(back) Subject: Re: OHS (was Where Cameron is playing) From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:17:04 EDT   Hi Bob Lind,   I think Stephen Schnurr and Jerome Butera would be good people to talk to. = I am a member of the OHS, and actually got a post card for the C. Carpenter recital. Good luck-and if you find that there have been local chapter = events that we've been missing out on, let me know! Thanks, gfc                         Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: RE: Trumpet on Swell or Great? From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 20:20:16 +0100   But the English full Swell is created, in England at least, more usually = by a Cornopean or an Oboe or both in the Swell. English organs more usually seem to have a Trumpet stop on the Great. Check out the NPOR for evidence!     Will Light Coventry UK   [SNIP!]   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of M Fox The versatility of having the Trumpet under expression more than makes up for the inconvenience/inauthenticity. (The English full Swell as an accompanimental device is more valuable than dozens of possible registrations in the literature.)       MAF        
(back) Subject: Re: Trumpet on Swell or Great? From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:31:48 EDT   I was not making a distinction between "Cornopean" or "Trumpet" in the =   Swell; I was indicating the presence of inverted-conical, = full-length-resonator chorus reeds at unison and sub-unison pitch, as opposed to a = stem-and-bell, narrow-scaled voice at unison pitch, and a cylindrical, half-length = concoction at sub-unison pitch. To me, and most, an 8' Oboe does NOT make a "full English Swell," and = it is unlikely that the likes of Parry, Stanford, et alia had that in mind, either.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City   ..  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4467 - 04/30/04 From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 20:54:39 +0100 (BST)   I believe that adding MIDI to a tracker action organ is not that difficult in practice - it is a question of putting electrical contacts somewhere in the tracker chain. John Foss   Charlie Lester wrote: But clearly, the tracker action was replaced with electricaction of some sort ----- unless the Purveyors of Vivisection figured out a way to control MIDI devices with sticks and levers.   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : Australian sporting pre-eminence     ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html