PipeChat Digest #4666 - Tuesday, August 3, 2004
 
Re: Transnational organists
  by "Arno Schuh" <arno.schuh@in-trier.de>
Re: Hook on Organclearinghouse webpage
  by "Paul Opel" <popel@sover.net>
Re: Organists Declining and the School Programs...Starting a movement?
  by <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com>
Re: Anglican Chant
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Greg has a GREAT idea...Starting a movement?
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Anglican Chant
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Anglican Chant
  by "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net>
Email adresses wanted
  by "rgunther@cantv.net" <rgunther@cantv.net>
Re: Organists Declining and the School Programs...Starting a movement?
  by "v hatch" <vhatch@hotmail.com>
They cameth upon the keys and did try to maketh good 'sound...
  by "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com>
Re: Anglican Chant
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: church music degrees
  by "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>
Re: church music degrees
  by "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu>
Re: Organists Declining and the School Programs...Starting a movement?
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
New 5-manual Ruffatti in Naples, FL
  by <FLTim@aol.com>
repertoire for the CHURCH organist
  by "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net>
AGO doings and This profession...OKAY
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
AGO and preaching to the choir
  by "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: AGO and preaching to the choir
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: AGO and preaching to the choir
  by "rgunther@cantv.net" <rgunther@cantv.net>
denominations
  by "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Transnational organists From: "Arno Schuh" <arno.schuh@in-trier.de> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:59:25 +0200     From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 9:23 PM       > Also, the Norwegians can never get more than "nil > pointe" in the Eurovision Song Contest; and this from > a country which gave us Grieg!!!!!!! > That's not true. Norway won the contest 2 times in 1985 and 1995, and = that's one time more than the country of Bach, Beethoven ... and one, two others in the range of Grieg. ;-)   Arno    
(back) Subject: Re: Hook on Organclearinghouse webpage From: "Paul Opel" <popel@sover.net> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 07:30:41 -0500   I believe so, but with no particular grounding in reality. As I remember, = - there's also another jog, in that the keydesk and pedals are a little bit lower than the back of the organ, taking advantage of its placement in a balcony.   Paul     http://www.sover.net/~popel/agomain.html      
(back) Subject: Re: Organists Declining and the School Programs...Starting a movement? From: <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:01:32 EDT   In a message dated 8/2/2004 2:13:47 PM Central Daylight Time, = Gfc234@aol.com writes: On second thought-perhaps an independent group-upset pipechatters-can = start to author letters to the heads of all major denominations stating their concerns about unfair employment practices.-because the AGO obviously will = not do it. Gregory,   Are you a member of the Guild? Are you a member of any other professional musical organizations (such as ACDA, AGEHR, etc.)?   I'm just curious since the Guild has been hit between the eyes with a = pretty solid blow in the past couple of days.   Yours,   Darryl by the Sea Nashville, TN  
(back) Subject: Re: Anglican Chant From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 07:16:33 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:19 AM Subject: Re: Anglican Chant     > They cameth upon the keys and did try to maketh good > sound, > but nothing issued forth from them. > > Then finding an handle, they did move it upwards and > downwards: the hissing as like a hundred serpents and > the air sweeter than camel's breath, > they brought forth joyful tunes.   I would point it as follows:   They cameth upon the keys and did try to | maketh . good | sound, * but nothing | issued | forth from | them.   Then finding an handle, they did move it | upwards . and | downwards: * the hissing as like a hundred serpents and the air sweeter than camel's breath, they | brought forth | joyful | tunes.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Greg has a GREAT idea...Starting a movement? From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 05:58:03 -0700 (PDT)   On second thought-perhaps an independent group-upset pipechatters-can = start to author letters to the heads of all major denominations stating = their concerns about unfair employment practices.-because the AGO = obviously will not do it.   YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am TOTALLY all about getting together a lit of independant Pipechatters, = Piprogellers, and others to get together and do somethings like this. = Whatever is being done now s just not enuf. The organizations are only = preaching to the choir...literally. Posting stuff on the organizatioonal = websites for those in this field to see is not going to do any good. I say = we get together a group and start to draft letters to the heads of all the = denominations where the organ is in use, and randomly chose about 4 = churchs out of those denominations that have recently posted jobs.       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
(back) Subject: Re: Anglican Chant From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 06:02:48 -0700 (PDT)   And now for something completely different,       They / cameth up.on the /keys~ and did try, to maketh good sound,but /noth.ing /issued /forth from .them.   Then, finding an handle, they did move it upwards and downwards: the hissing as like a hundred serpents and the air sweeter than /ca.mel's /breath,   they /brought .forth /joy.ful /tunes.     (The ~ is a slur which drives the chant quickly on to the second phrase of the chant. The (.) markings are where the note changes, but there is no emphasis. Unfortunately, I cannot type in the triplet timings required, but which would often appear over the pointing)   This is a typical and quirky attempt to make the speech rhythm more fluid and less four-square.   As a general rule, one of the best bits of advice one can give a choir, is to insist that they "lean over the bar!" In other words, the pulse should always be immediately after it.   Once the organist and the choir learn to abandon conventional thinking, and follow speech rhythm with an almost Eastern fluidity, then Anglican (or any other chant) becomes artistic and beautiful...but it ain't easy.   Dynamic also plays an important part, and some psalters included dynamic markings fff to ppp.   Within the constraints, an organist has a fairly free hand to inject moments of high drama or lyrical descants "on the fly."   I was fortunate enough to hear Dr Francis Jackson accompany the psalms in my boyhood, and memorable are his "worms," "feathered fowls" and "things that move in the waters."   And when God arose and scattered his enemies.....Boy! We all ducked and covered!   Reagrds,   Colin Mitchell UK   PS: I once heard Anglican Chant broadcast in Swedish...now THAT was interesting.           --- "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> wrote:   > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:19 AM > Subject: Re: Anglican Chant > > I would point it as follows: > > They cameth upon the keys and did try to | maketh . > good | sound, * > but nothing | issued | forth from | > them. > > Then finding an handle, they did move it | upwards . > and | downwards: * > the hissing as like a hundred serpents > and the air sweeter than > camel's breath, > they | brought forth | joyful | tunes. >       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Re: Anglican Chant From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 07:44:26 -0700       Colin Mitchell wrote: > Hello, > > This is more serious than it appears..... > > EXAMPLE:- > > o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o > 1. They cameth upon the keys and did try to | maketh . good | sound, || but | nothing | issued | forth from them. ||   2. Then finding an handle, (pause) they did move it | upwards . and | downwards: || the hissing as like a hundred serpents (pause) and the air sweeter than camel's breath, (pause) they | brought forth | joyful | tunes. || > > o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o > > > I wonder if someone would like to have a go at > pointing this as Anglican Chant?   What's so hard about THAT? (chuckle) > > It MUST fit a single play through of a double chant, > without repetition of the second half of the double > chant. > > Hopefully, I can then demonstrate that simple word > rhythms and stresses are not the only consideration, > because some of the pointing in the Anglican tradition > can be absolutely perverse! > > The Oxford Psalter is notorious. > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchell UK > >   The weather forecast for today calls for | hot and | humid, || with scattered | showers . in the | afternoon. ||   Surfers are advised of a | riptide | warning; || all beaches north of the Mission are | CLOSED | FOR | swimming. ||   (or)   all beaches north of the | Mission . are | closed for | swimming. ||   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Email adresses wanted From: "rgunther@cantv.net" <rgunther@cantv.net> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:47:37 -0400   Foklks, Sorry to bother the entire List with this, but I need the email adresses = of following people: 1) Matthew Bellochio 2) David Wigton   Please make sure that your respose is private, to rgunther@cantv.net Thanks Andres    
(back) Subject: Re: Organists Declining and the School Programs...Starting a movement? From: "v hatch" <vhatch@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 10:50:35 -0500   Congratulations, Darryl, and all other Guild members from Nashville!--You were, I gather, the chapter that grew the fastest,and/or the most in the last year. You're right to raise questions. Why, indeed, does Gfc say = "the guild obviously will not do it"? >From: DarrylbytheSea@aol.com >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >To: pipechat@pipechat.org >Subject: Re: Organists Declining and the School Programs...Starting a >movement? >Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:01:32 EDT > >In a message dated 8/2/2004 2:13:47 PM Central Daylight Time, >Gfc234@aol.com >writes: >On second thought-perhaps an independent group-upset pipechatters-can = start >to author letters to the heads of all major denominations stating their >concerns about unfair employment practices.-because the AGO obviously = will >not do it. >Gregory, > >Are you a member of the Guild? Are you a member of any other professional >musical organizations (such as ACDA, AGEHR, etc.)? > >I'm just curious since the Guild has been hit between the eyes with a >pretty >solid blow in the past couple of days. > >Yours, > >Darryl by the Sea >Nashville, TN   _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! =   http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/    
(back) Subject: They cameth upon the keys and did try to maketh good 'sound... From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 09:03:14 -0700   EASY:       [having to do without 'proper' markings - use your imagination]       - They cameth upon the keys and did try to maketh good   'sound,       - but nothing issued forth   'from them.       - Then finding an handle, they did move it upwards and   'downwards:       - The hissing as like a hundred serpents and the air sweeter than camel's breath, they brought forth joyful   'tunes.        
(back) Subject: Re: Anglican Chant From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:05:13 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,, I think "Bud" Clarke has come up with the ideal pointing.....certainly one I would prefer to the less obvious versions.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote: > > > 1. They cameth upon the keys > and did try to | maketh . good | sound, || > but | nothing | issued | forth from them. || > > 2. Then finding an handle, (pause) > they did move it | upwards . and | downwards: || > the hissing as like a hundred serpents (pause) > and the air sweeter than camel's breath, (pause) > they | brought forth | joyful | tunes. ||       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Re: church music degrees From: "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 12:14:57 -0400       On 2 Aug 2004 at 19:35, Shelley Culver expounded:   > I think the program at Westminster is pretty good and prepares you for > a job.   Except for one in the real world. I've seen too many Westminster = *Master's level* grads come out of that school - with a church music major - clueless on = what church music is all about. Recital work, yes. But for what worship is = all about - namely supporting and gently leading the assembly in THEIR song - many of = the Westminster grads I've seen fail miserably. There's too much attention = drawn to self and not enough to God. Recital work requires the attention focused = on self; church music directs the attention AWAY from self, and not enough college- trained musicians can make that distinction.   I hope you're different, Shelley. I hope you will have a church job during = your studies to take what you're taught in the ivory tower into a real-world = situation to apply it. Good luck to you.   --Shirley        
(back) Subject: Re: church music degrees From: "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 12:21:54 -0400   Well, I think I will be different, mainly because I'm not a Westminster Choir College student. I go to Westminster College in New Wilmington, PA. We're one of the only Presbyterian schools to offer a Sacred Music degree. I enjoy recital work and playing repertoire, but I'm doing the Sacred Music degree to, as you said, support and lead the assembly in their song.     Shelley   >>> pnst.shirley@verizon.net 08/03/04 12:14 PM >>>     On 2 Aug 2004 at 19:35, Shelley Culver expounded:   > I think the program at Westminster is pretty good and prepares you for > a job.   Except for one in the real world. I've seen too many Westminster *Master's level* grads come out of that school - with a church music major - clueless on what church music is all about. Recital work, yes. But for what worship is all about - namely supporting and gently leading the assembly in THEIR song - many of the Westminster grads I've seen fail miserably. There's too much attention drawn to self and not enough to God. Recital work requires the attention focused on self; church music directs the attention AWAY from self, and not enough college- trained musicians can make that distinction.   I hope you're different, Shelley. I hope you will have a church job during your studies to take what you're taught in the ivory tower into a real-world situation to apply it. Good luck to you.   --Shirley         ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>      
(back) Subject: Re: Organists Declining and the School Programs...Starting a movement? From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:48:35 EDT   In a message dated 8/3/2004 7:02:12 AM Central Daylight Time, DarrylbytheSea@aol.com writes:   Gregory, Are you a member of the Guild? Are you a member of any other professional =   musical organizations (such as ACDA, AGEHR, etc.)? I'm just curious since the Guild has been hit between the eyes with a = pretty solid blow in the past couple of days. Yours, Darryl by the Sea Nashville, TN     Dear Darryl by the Sea I am a member of three AGO chapters. Cordially, gfc (by the lake) LOL   ___________________________________________________________________________= ___ _________ _______________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________ _______________________________ ________________ Gregory Francis Ceurvorst 1921 Sherman Avenue # GS Evanston, IL 60201 847.332.2788 home/fax 708.243.2549 mobile _Home Email: gfc234@aol.com_ (mailto:gfc234@aol.com) _Mobile Email: gfc234@nextel.blackberry.net_ (mailto:gfc234@nextel.blackberry.net)    
(back) Subject: New 5-manual Ruffatti in Naples, FL From: <FLTim@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:05:32 EDT   Dear Pipechatters,   Check out the following article: http://www.naplesnews.com/npdn/neapolitan/article/0,2071,NPDN_14939_3025080= ,00 ..html   Recordings are underway and will be available soon.     Cheers, Tim  
(back) Subject: repertoire for the CHURCH organist From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 10:16:26 -0700   OK, here's a fun one (and one of my pet peeves), apropos of the remarks about music school graduates being able to play recitals, not services: when I was in college (and I went to three GOOD ones: Oberlin, Cincinnati, and Southern Methodist), I learned a fair amount of big organ literature, but, had I not been particularly interested in learning virtually ALL of Bach's chorale preludes, I would have come out with precious little that was suitable for average-length preludes, offertories, and postludes in an average-size church. I'm not a recitalist; never was, never wanted to be; except for extractable movements, the big pieces went on the shelf and stayed there.   Here's a very incomplete list of what *I* think The Compleat Church Organist should have in his/her repertoire ... what couldn't YOU do without in YOUR library?   Cheers,   Bud   -------------------------------------------------------------------   Bach   1. The COMPLETE Clavieruebung III, large AND small versions, with the possible exception of the large Vater unser ... there are only a handful of organists who can bring that off; learn the Duets if you wish.   2. The COMPLETE Great Eighteen Chorale Preludes ... check out the alternative version of Nun komm (2) in the Anhang ... it's MUCH easier to play, and sounds better   3. The COMPLETE Schubler Chorales ... well, maybe not Komst der nun (chuckle)   4. At least the BIG chorale preludes in the misc. book(s), particularly the Magnificat fugue. There's a lovely Christ lag in Todesbanden with the c.f. in the alto ... I have to sit down and transcribe that with the c.f. in the pedals on a 4' stop ... I play it that way.   The Church Organist's Golden Treasury, Vols. I, II, III - that should take care of the LUTHERANS (chuckle)   Dubois - 12 Pieces, 7 pieces   Dupre - ALL the Antiphons; I don't particularly care for the chorale-preludes; BTW, Cortege and Litany is a FUNERAL piece ... I see it programmed at the ODDEST times (chuckle).   Elgar - Vesper Voluntaries   Frescobaldi - Fiori musicali   Franck - well, what DO you do with Franck? Play the Cantabile and the Adagio from the Grand Piece Symphonique (chuckle). There are some good things in L'Organiste, but you HAVE to follow the harmonium PITCH designations to make them sound right   Guilmant - L'Organiste Liturgique, L'Organiste Practique; a lot of the medium-sized free pieces are worth learning, and some movements of the Sonatas ... is anybody going to reprint the "Maitres" series?   Handel - Dupre's edition of the Concerti is perfectly fine for solo organ; just play the pedal parts in the left hand; the Walcha edition has a keyboard reduction of the orchestra parts so you can play them as organ-harpsichord duets, or whatever   Karg-Elert - the chorale-preludes ought to be played more than they are   Langlais - just about ANYTHING chant-based   Mendelssohn - the Preludes and Fugues ought to be played more   anything by Oldroyd - don't laugh ... congregations LOVE him   Oxford University Press - Tallis to Wesley (the later stuff), just about any of the collections of organ music by English composers   Peeters - I blow hot and cold about his music, particularly the chorale-preludes, but I play a few things out of Sixty Short Pieces   Reger - the medium-sized chorale-preludes (is that Op. 67 or Op. 100?) are virtually unknown ... they're not particularly easy, but they're short enough to use in service. A lot of the smaller free works are worth learning too.   Titcomb - it's a shame all those Gregorian paraphrases are out of print   Tournemire - there are some WONDERFUL short pieces in L'Orgue Mystique; it's a shame the folios are so expensive   Vierne - there are LOTS of extractable movements in the symphonies   Widor - ditto                          
(back) Subject: AGO doings and This profession...OKAY From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:55:58 -0700 (PDT)     OK what Im noticing...and correct me if wrong...is this.   AGO is putting all kinds of stuff for us to print on the AGO Website. BUT = is the AGO sending this stuff to Pastors and search committees? Has = ANYONE...ANYONE...heard a statement put out from ajor denominations on the = close of the Organ department at Northwestern and at other schools?. NOT = organists in those denominations but PASTORS AND LEADERS. Is the AGO going = to the PASTORS and LEADERS and saying "LOOK...you are distroying the = interest in church music YOURSELVES?" Has there been a statement sent out = to ALL the schools that have decent organ department on the implementation = of Sacred Music classes?   I love AGO...but we gotta stop preaching to the choir and start preaching = to those who need to give us the "hook up" so we can continue our calling. = If the denominations would do the simple measures, as Monty Bennett put = it, to make even a tiny $10,000 a year job look good that would be great. = Give me a book allowance, pay my way to atleast a regional AGO, my = membership dues. Lots can be done!       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
(back) Subject: AGO and preaching to the choir From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 11:16:07 -0700   LOTS of AGO chapters have tried outreach to clergy ... the ones that show up at the dinners are usually the ones who ALREADY support their musicians. RC priests are notable by their absence ... I see a handful of Lutherans, Presbyterians, a few Episcopalians ... Methodist ministers don't seem to like their musicians much these days.   At St. Matthew's, I was told that I would be fired IMMEDIATELY if I involved the Guild in mediation or conflict resolution.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: AGO and preaching to the choir From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:25:08 -0700 (PDT)   GASP Fire you immediately!? OMG SEE WHAT I MEAN!       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
(back) Subject: Re: AGO and preaching to the choir From: "rgunther@cantv.net" <rgunther@cantv.net> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 14:35:49 -0400     Raymond H. Clark [quilisma@cox.net] wrote, in part:   I see a handful of Lutherans, Presbyterians, a few Episcopalians ...   This matches almost exactly with my experiences. These seem to be (at this moment) the denominations who care most for the music ministry. BTW we OHS conventioneers were well recived at ALL the churches we visited, but we always got the BEST attention at lutheran churches. Coincidence?- I = believe certainly not.   Andres First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet, and the cat got something to wonder about.        
(back) Subject: denominations From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 11:54:21 -0700   Well, in the "liturgy wars" the Lutherans certainly came out on top ... documentation, layout of the books, available music, etc. ... the Episcopal Hymnal 1982 is a NIGHTMARE when compared to the Lutheran Book of Worship (ELCA) *or* Lutheran Worship (Missouri Synod); the less said about RC "Reader's Digest" (tm) missalettes, the better (chuckle). Liturgy in throwaway newsprint booklets devalues the liturgy.   I may not like Bunjes' harmonizations, but at least you can READ LBW and LW; something I CAN'T say for the typefaces and engraving in The Hymnal 1982 ... the method of pointing ALONE was calculated to kill off Anglican Chant in a single stroke.   I found it amusing / illustrative that Colin, John, and I all used the same (old) system of pointing, and understood each other PERFECTLY, though we come from VERY different backgrounds.   Cheers,   Bud