PipeChat Digest #4668 - Wednesday, August 4, 2004
 
Re: church music degrees
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Unfair Employment Practices
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
church music degrees/student organists
  by "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu>
Random talks on The Profession
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Random talks on The Profession
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
WCC/Sacred Music Programs
  by <Oboe32@aol.com>
Re: repertoire for the CHURCH organist
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
Re: AGO doings and This profession...OKAY
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
Les Maitres vol 3 p 43-59
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
Re: repertoire for the CHURCH organist
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: repertoire for the CHURCH organist
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
RE: repertoire for the CHURCH organist
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: repertoire for the CHURCH organist
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
 

(back) Subject: Re: church music degrees From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:12:52 EDT     >In short, I say, Demand the absolute best, very carefully examined. Like=20 calling a pastor=20 >(well, darn near!). And compensate him or her monuMENTally to be what you= =20 expect her or >him to be for you. (I suspect that=E2=80=99s at least part=20= of how YOU=20 got YOUR job!) And we are a >congregation of fewer than 150, of VERY=20 ordinary economic profile. =20 > >Perhaps most strangely, I do not think that that is an unusual attitude or= =20 practice in >Lutheranism. =20 I wasn't referring to the attitudes of the hiring committees, I was =20 referring to the attitudes of the musicians who come in with "diva" attitude= s and say=20 "I need this and that and such and such, and on top of it all, I want a =20 renovated music suite and you'll need to buy me a new Steinway and I want ne= w =20 acoustical treatment in the worship space....etc." Then they don't lift a finger to do an ounce more than they need to, all th= e=20 music is "performed" to glorify themselves, and they are not team players on= =20 the church staff. THAT was the kind of attitude I was talking about. It's= =20 when people come in like that the people don't want to be generous. When=20 someone comes in and says here's what I can do to help your program grow, h= ere's=20 what I think I can offer to your church, and then they sit down and really=20 can do it up big, but do so humbly...that's what churches are looking for.=20= =20 They want someone who can produce but doesn't do it for vain glory. Modest= y=20 has it's rewards. I don't want to brag, but doing my job well and for the=20 right reasons has gotten me a dream instrument, and when it came to salary=20 negotiations, they offered me more than I was going to ask for. I can't=20 complain...I thank God everyday because I am truly blessed beyond belief. I know it sounds cheesy, but it's true... =20 Monty Bennett Friendship Baptist Church Charlotte, NC  
(back) Subject: Unfair Employment Practices From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 18:42:12 -0700 (PDT)     The AGO has a Denominational Task Force?   When I was an active member I never knew that.   And yes there are many many church positions that are unfair in wages and = perks. That's why some end up unhappy in situations: better to take a job = that gives you a steady pay check for a few months, then ask them if its = possible to have little things like paid AGO membership, and a book = allowance. Heck if they figure it out they could even offer the very basic = health insurance plan for a minimal cost.   The Chips get on out shoulder when we go ask them for the littlest things = like the above. $100 dollars to join AGO...a church may say no...but they = have all the money in the do needless things such as ...oh...remodeling an = entire kitchen for a section of cabinets that are in need of repair due to = one leaky faucet.   Many sides to th stories       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
(back) Subject: church music degrees/student organists From: "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:59:17 -0400   We have a really strong, and growing, organ program. Currently there are two sacred music majors, another one coming in the fall, a couple people who do organ as their second major (BA), and some people who just takes lessons.   We're working on getting new instruments, which is a huge plus.   My professor is also the founder of the Westminster Historic Organ Program. Part of that is travelling around to see, hear, and play historic instruments and to hear people who play them. The newest part of WHOP is something that I think is pretty cool. My professor teaches two high school students 28 free lessons during the school year. The idea is to interest them in the organ and then, hopefully, they'll continue (ideally at Westminster!). I think it's a great idea, and I hope someday when I've got a church job or a college teaching job, that I can do something similar. I don't care what anyone says about how horrible being a church musician might be -- playing the organ is pretty darn fun. And if we keep telling people -- especially young people -- that no one should be a church musician, than no one will be. And then where will we be?   My 2 cents :) Shelley   >>> pnst.shirley@verizon.net 08/03/04 6:34 PM >>> Excellent, Shelley. I'm glad to hear this about Westminster, New Wilmington. And you have your priorities in the right place.   --Shirley      
(back) Subject: Random talks on The Profession From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:08:40 -0700 (PDT)   Face it...we all want our dream job or a good working situation. Some of = us work for musical churches that would not be caught without giving their = musicians fairness. Others fire the musicians simply because they ask for = a contract. Some don't even have a job description. Some dont even have a = salary. To many, a musician is just the same as a stereo on an = elevator...something to get them by without silence. As far as approaching the Music organizations of the = denominations...nothing, in my opinion would happen. What would happen? = The would publish an article in their journal for church musicians...send = it to church musicians...church musicans read it over a donut and go "oh, = here we go again", toss it out with last weeks bulletin, and it does not = reach who it needs to reach...the pastors and denominational heads.     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
(back) Subject: Random talks on The Profession From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:28:33 EDT   I barely make more than our Retired Hero The Always Correct Rev, bud.   75.00 a week IF I SHOW UP.....   and they allow my full time job to pay them for ELCA insurance.   it is close to home, a 3 manual toaster, (COS-G-404), a choir of 25 that includes 5 readers and hearts to praise God.   Did big, did medium doing small (165 members) the common denominator?     ME   and i was taught to always do my utmost for the Glory of God.....   nothing else matters.   this is such a fun group.   dale basking in the e mail flow.................  
(back) Subject: WCC/Sacred Music Programs From: <Oboe32@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 00:00:06 EDT   Gang,   I must say I'm a bit disappointed with some of what has been said on here regarding sacred music curriculums and schools. I agree that there were = and are egos at WCC, but such are the same that I've seen at Eastman, SUNY = Purchase, UNH, UDel, and numerous other schools where I've done some study, summer session, and applied. I chose WCC because of the comprehensive nature of = the curriculum and the diverse study. I had a church job every year I was = there, and landed a fulltime job my senior year. Spiritual guidance comes from = Princeton Seminary, and the school continues to reinvent the program. Every school = has something different to offer. Just as within every school there are = different students. It is easy to make generalizations about Julliard, Manhatten, = Curtis, or any other school, but it is unfair to knock their positive attributes. It = is not fair to critique the program, when it is individuals who may cause = problems. Westminster, as well as Julliard, BU, MSM, and numerous other DO NOT teach =   attitude and pomp, they teach the rudiments of music and the field. You = can't change individual personalities, just send them in the right direction, = and admittedly, sometimes it fails.   Sacred Music curriculums, in the 260 programs that are still alive, are striving to change themselves to meet the needs of the church world as we = know it. I think it would be beneficial if we all look a little deeper into the schools, and less at individual cases and students. The organ world is = shrinking folks, and attitudes do it no good, nor does any kind of discrimination. = Take what you can get and try to mold/shape it in the right ways. Our differences, personalities, attitudes, and abilities are what make this field so = promising and fun to work in. It is truly a vocation for the strong of heart! Plus...I = know many organists who have glamour shots in major magazines and publications = that put on facades so that they will have powerful church jobs and big organs. =   This is not to say they are wrong for what they are doing, they just need = to respect each institution and artist for their individuality!   Just some thoughts,   Pete Isherwood  
(back) Subject: Re: repertoire for the CHURCH organist From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 00:11:44 EDT   Thanks for the list. I am sure it will be appreciated. We have all of = them, combining our 50 something collection of music. There are much = duplicated. I put them in music cabinets, file cabinets, and stacks -- one of things I =   know and can pick up on the way out, one with things I almost have = learned, another for what I need more work and another that I want to learn. the = rest are filed away. It would take about 20 somewhat pages to catalogue all our = music, but my filing system seems to work, if no one touches my stacks ( and not = one would want to face me if they did). I love to play and will stay "on the bench" as long as I can keep up with the music in the church where I am. = The pianist and I can "play by ear" and improvise at will. Keith also joins = us occasionally. We are working on some duets for organ. I know from your = posts that you love playing, too. I can be so ill I have to be helped to the organ, = but the professional takes over then and I feel no pain. Lee  
(back) Subject: Re: AGO doings and This profession...OKAY From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 00:15:12 EDT   I love AGO, too. I am a member of the OKC chapter and have dual = membership in the Ft. Worth chapter, too. The members of the OKC are so friendly and = have great concerts and workshops. Of course, our church does not follow the salary standards, but I am not complaining. I love my position. Lee  
(back) Subject: Les Maitres vol 3 p 43-59 From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:59:35 -0700   Hello Friends,   I continue my posting of the public domain scores Les Maitres series - Vol = 3 pages 43 - 59   Download and enjoy:   http://www.blackiris.com/orwig/scores/LesMaitres/vol3/LM3_p43-59.pdf   Jonathan Orwig http://www.blackiris.com/orwig (personal site) http://www.evensongmusic.net (publishing site with mp3 examples)       --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 7/22/2004    
(back) Subject: Re: repertoire for the CHURCH organist From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 00:00:31 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   No church organ repertoire list would be complete without UK repertoire, for the simple reason that it is NOT recital orientated, by and large. Like Strawberries and Fresh Cream, it is refreshingly agreeable rather the stuff of substance.   Other than works by Bairstow, Elgar, Francis Jackson and the wonderful "Introduction, Passacaglia, Chorale and Fugue" by Willan, I can't think of many really substantial works from British pens; though I probably will the moment I end this message.   On the other hand, there is a wealth of service music; much of it small to medium scale.   Works by Stanley, Nares, Greene, Walond from the baroque.   The classical period seemed to miss us out!   Then there's a whole mass of smaller works from the middle of the 19th century until the present day......Willan (again), Bairstow and Jackson (again), Preston, Thalben-Ball, Thiman (dubious quality), Sumsion, W.T.Best, Stanford (fine works), the Welshman Matthias, Statham, Arthur Wills, Norman Cocker, Vaughan Williams, Philip Moore etc etc etc   Of course, for those who enjoy a fanciful tour of every diatonic harmony known to man, but falling short of Reger, there is always.....if one must....the non-music of Herbert Howells.   Howells is the sort of music which wafts around the clerestory and lingers in the triforium, but as the last note dies away, you think to yourself, "What the hell was all that about?"   You've used every stop on the organ and played the equivalent of a harmonic thesis; for what purpose, no one has ever been able to tell me.   Just my 0.2 Euros worth.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK         __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: RE: repertoire for the CHURCH organist From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 19:13:24 +1200     >Then there's a whole mass of smaller works from the middle of the 19th century until the present day......Willan (again), Bairstow and Jackson (again), Preston, Thalben-Ball, Thiman (dubious quality), Sumsion, W.T.Best, Stanford (fine works), the Welshman Matthias, Statham, Arthur Wills, Norman Cocker, Vaughan Williams, Philip Moore etc etc etc   You're slipping, Colin. Huge grin from me. Stanford was Irish. Thalben-Ball was Australian.   Thiman - well, no one cares, as his stuff is so pedestrian.   Ross    
(back) Subject: RE: repertoire for the CHURCH organist From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 00:16:43 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Stanford "came of age" in England, Thalben-Ball was driving racing-cars at Brooklands in the 30's (how British is THAT?) and, whilst foreigners to some extent, they were part of the British mainstream, just as Oscar Wylde was.   You'll be telling us next, that Healey Willan was Canadian.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK             __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: RE: repertoire for the CHURCH organist From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 19:33:23 +1200     Stanford "came of age" in England, Thalben-Ball was driving racing-cars at Brooklands in the 30's (how British is THAT?) and, whilst foreigners to some extent, they were part of the British mainstream, just as Oscar Wylde was.   >You'll be telling us next, that Healey Willan was Canadian.   Oh no. Willan was born in 1880 in Balham, Surrey.   Oscar Wylde? That's a Wilde spelling...   Ross