PipeChat Digest #4675 - Thursday, August 5, 2004
 
Re: Qualified ELCA Organists
  by "Hans-Friedrich Hell" <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de>
Re: OHS Buffalo - Second (Very) Full Day, 7-16-04
  by "Felix Hell" <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de>
Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Re: PipeChat Digest  Epiphany 1 and Bach
  by "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr>
Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach
  by "Scott" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Re: Qualified ELCA Organists
  by <Swedish5702@aol.com>
Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach
  by "Scott" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Re: Use of a Stentorphon[e]
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
too clean digis
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Augsburg Fortress Web Site
  by "Christopher J. Howerter" <christophhowerter@sbcglobal.net>
RE: Informal survey - most difficult Bach
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
RE: premise for discussion
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: premise for discussion
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Qualified ELCA Organists
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Qualified ELCA Organists
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach
  by "Scott" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Ruffatti in Naples
  by <FLTim@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Qualified ELCA Organists From: "Hans-Friedrich Hell" <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:09:10 +0200   Enjoying our vacation I did not follow most of this thread, so I do not know whether any names of highly competent ELCA organist, together with their music programs at their churches, were mentioned. From my point of view Dr. Thomas Schmidt, St. Peters's Lutheran Church in Manhattan (ELCA), is probably one of the most competent Lutheran liturgical organists and choirmasters I have encountered. The music program of St. Peter's, in particular the yearly "Basically Bach" weekend is, as to my experience, unparalleled Hans-Friedrich Hell     Noel Stoutenburg wrote:   > Swedish5702@aol.com wrote: > >> * Being a traveling FM radio executive I try and make it to a service >> every Sunday. One thing I have noticed in a great many Lutheran >> churches is the lack of top notch players. >> >> ...<snip>... >> >> The priority seems to be to have an assistant pastor first and >> whatever monies remain go for the organist/choir director. >> * >    
(back) Subject: Re: OHS Buffalo - Second (Very) Full Day, 7-16-04 From: "Felix Hell" <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:32:18 +0200   Malcolm Wechsler wrote:   > >Felix Hell, Westminster Presbyterian Church, Buffalo >Friday, July 16th, 4:10 p.m. >... > >Speaking of bad timing, the next program was, I am afraid, a victim of = this. >Mr. Hell was given 40 minutes. It was not one of the 8 p.m. special, full >length programs he may have coveted but it was a shot at a convention >performance. He, I am afraid, turned it into a full length event, and = anyone >looking at the program could have seen that. Conventions require the = smooth >assurance of an on time start and an on time finish. The buses and the >caterers are waiting, as they were in this case.... > > > >...Please treat your presenter with respect. If you do otherwise, it does = get >around remarkably quickly. Time your program with care. > > > Yes, one look at the program makes it very clear that 40 minutes would not do it. The program was discussed extensively - in writing - and agreed on with the convention chair. On of the e-mail responses said, that it should be around 50 minutes, but 60 minutes would be fine. Hans-Friedrich Hell  
(back) Subject: Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:44:53 +0100     Perhaps it's because I have greater rapport with, greater understanding = of, get more pleasure from - playing some of Bach's works than others = that I think of some of them as 'easier' than others.   One which I do find difficult is ..... the Adagio from Concerto II in A = minor (BWV 593). and Yes, it's the one marked 'senza pedale, a due Clav.'   So, a difficult organ piece, just two pages long, with no pedal part ?   And Yes, I do have difficulty playing it "to my complete satisfaction", = with all the delicate and precise articulation which I wish to put into = it. This is one of those (Bach) pieces which should 'float through the = candle smoke', lit by shafts of sunlight from the clerestory, etc, etc, = ...; and with plenty of delicate 'chiff'.   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a musicman who has problems not typing BMW 593] ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gfc234@aol.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:25 AM Subject: Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest Epiphany 1 and Bach From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:03:23 +0300   Along with many others on the list, my copy of the Marsall and Ogletree Epiphany arrived on Monday morning - not bad as it had travelled from MA (Massachussets or Manhattan?) over the weekend, leaving its home on Thursday. It is an impressive recording, most particularly in the romantic works. Douglas Marshall is a virtuoso in the Virgil Fox mould - his = version of the D major fugue is a "tour de force". David Ogletree has kindly = allowed me to add tracks of my choice from the record to http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/ I have chosen the D major fugue, a hymn prelude "Festal song" by Robert Hebble and the final (third) movement of the Franck Grande Piece Symphonique. They should be online shortly.   On the question of "difficulty" in the Bach works, all of them are = difficult to play well. I think the Toccata in F major is one of the more difficult, as it contains three "Trio" sections as well as the pedal solos. Interestingly enough I don't think the "Dorian" D minor toccata and fugue = is so demanding - there is a section towards the end of the Toccata which is where many organists trip up, and this requires a fair bit of work, and it is not easy, but it is not in the same league as the Fantasia and Fugue in = G Minor, the Great "A Minor" or the D major. And yes, the Trio Sonatas and = the Chorale Preludes in Trio form are the hardest of the lot! John Foss      
(back) Subject: Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:34:50 EDT   In a message dated 8/4/2004 11:04:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, effarbee@verizon.net writes:   > would like to hear opinions on the most difficult > >(no more than 4, please) Bach organ selection(s) to play. >   Any new one that i am just starting to learn. Any old one I did NOT learn at CCM with my prof. Any thing i have not played in a year The Fiddle----too much precision required by my Walcha-ite teacher.   dale in florida  
(back) Subject: Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach From: "Scott" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 07:35:29 -0500   Every Bach piece has it's difficult parts. If you take the D major, which I'm playing in concert tomorrow in Indianapolis, the countersubject is = hard to get exactly on the beat with the 16th note subject. Many times I've heard this played sloppy. The notes may be easy to learn, but the understanding of the piece and the rhythm are quite difficult.   Another beautiful but complicated piece is the Allein Gott in G, the = middle one of the three #663 I think? It is very tricky to get all of the right rhythms again, and the inner voices.   As with all music, the releases on Bach are the hardest. The simplest = piece can sound like crap on a tracker if the notes are quickly released. It's almost necessary to think of everyone note's release in the piece, which = is very difficult. (I think some will understand this.)   I have played the Wedge and the G major trio sonata, and I would say those took the longest to learn.   Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St. Champaign, IL 61820 217.390.0158 www.scottmontgomerymusic.net    
(back) Subject: Re: Qualified ELCA Organists From: <Swedish5702@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:54:40 EDT   The most popular college choir making the rounds today has to be the one directed by a good friend and mentor Dr. Noble. Nordic Choir is its name = and their sound quality is fantastic.   I remember when I sang in the US Navy's Bluejacket Choir Dr. Noble = greeted us after a performance and that's when my association began with him now = in its 41st year. Wow, how time flies when it is quality years. LOL!   Regarding my comment on digital vs. pipes. Having perfect pitch and = having been in the company of both builders the digital is toooooooooooo clean sounding and always in voice.   Give me an EM or AS any day over a pipeless device. Thank God for the leading churches and cathedrals still letting their sound reign forth in = majesty.   Regards,   Craig  
(back) Subject: Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach From: "Scott" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 07:42:55 -0500   Oh yeah, the wedge is on my website if you care to listen. It's also an = example of a Buzard instrument here in Champaign.   Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St. Champaign, IL 61820 217.390.0158 www.scottmontgomerymusic.net  
(back) Subject: Re: Use of a Stentorphon[e] From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:07:54 EDT   One of my favorite uses for the Stentorphon[e] is in transcription, especially in works by Elgar (Nimrod, the trio sections from a couple of = the Marches, et cetera). It is also a very fine, soaring line for use in the = "b" section of the Mendelssohn War March of the Priests. At Temple Emanu-El, it can sometimes be heard during meditations as a broad solo voice accompanied by nearly three dozen ranks of strings with = the 32' Grand Open Bass sitting beneath them. Since it is in the main section of = the Solo Organ, it also has a V-rank Grand Chorus mixture of immense scale = that goes with it. The "secondary" chorus in that division is the = leathered-lipped 8' Violoncello, 4' Fugara, and V-rank Harmonics with flat 21st, which can be added to the five other main diapason choruses for English anthem work = (yes, we occasionally do the Parry "I Was Glad," amongst others). While those who have never heard one, or a good one, often label Stentorphon[e]s "woofy," "honking," or "hooting," they are actually grand = and very w arm stops when properly voiced.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City http://www.glucknewyork.com/ ..  
(back) Subject: too clean digis From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:40:16 EDT   In a message dated 8/5/2004 8:55:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, Swedish5702@aol.com writes:   > the digital is toooooooooooo clean sounding and always in voice   have you heard any digital organ besides the Allen? Every company i can = think of and have played does not suffer from this except big A.   perhaps too much warmth and not enough clarity, but digi's are emualting pretty well these days.   dale in florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:41:24 EDT   In a message dated 8/5/2004 8:52:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, montre1978@yahoo.com writes:   > The simplest piece > can sound like crap on a tracker if the notes are quickly released.   a case for E action......   Grinning   dale in florida  
(back) Subject: Augsburg Fortress Web Site From: "Christopher J. Howerter" <christophhowerter@sbcglobal.net> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:42:22 -0400   Dear List Members,   I thought I might submit this for some fun, if you will. I was = searching on the Augsburg Fortress Web Site to see if copies of the = Service Book and Hymnal were still in print (and indeed they = are...yay!!!). However, as I digress, the accompaniment edition is no = longer as well as the reharmonizations for the LBW, or whatever it was = entitiled. Anyway...then, in my search I somehow came upon this link = for sampling music available from Augsburg Fortress, which I thought you = might enjoy! Here it is: = http://www.augsburgfortress.org/downloads/0800676025sample.pdf. BTW, it = gets better toward the end...do have fun!!!   Sincerely, Christopher J. Howerter, SPC (who is now laughing maniacally...as he did = when he first saw the thing!!!) Organist and Choirmaster Salem Lutheran Church Naugatuck, CT Home: (203) 798-9809 Mobile: (610) 462-8017   P.S. By the by, anyone with a copy of the book of reharmonizations for = the LBW, please send me an email. I would like to borrow it to make = copies, after receiving permission from the Fortress, as it were, of = course! Thanks.
(back) Subject: RE: Informal survey - most difficult Bach From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:13:34 -0400   Bud wrote:   >Toccata in F is by far the easiest of the four listed; I'd say the most =   >difficult Bach organ piece is NOT a prelude and fugue, but the large=20 >setting of Vater unser in Clavieruebung III.   That's what I was going to suggest, too. =20   It's Bach at his absolute deepest and weirdest, thus full of = interpretive as well as technical challenges.   Next on the list would be some of the Leipzig chorale preludes, = especially the trios.   Then the G major trio sonata.   I'm not sure what I'd put fourth-- there are so many possibilities. The = Canonic variations?   (N.B. Two of the Leipzig trios are the only pieces on the above list = that I have thoroughly learned. So I'm mostly going on what I can hear = or have been told).    
(back) Subject: RE: premise for discussion From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:26:43 -0400   John Speller writes (of the Swell organ in St. Paul's Cathedral, = London):   > As with many Willis organs the impact is mainly due to the reeds, but careful observation suggests that the 16' and 4' reeds don't actually contribute a lot to the total effect, and that the main element is an ENORMOUS Cornopean. =20   A 16' manual stop would need to be very small indeed not to contribute = a lot to the effect. At the other end of the spectrum, please don't = discount the mixture. It has been said (and I agree from my own = experience) that the essential ingredients of the English full-swell = effect are a 16' reed and a mixture, and a useful miniature full-swell = sound can be obtained using those two stops alone.      
(back) Subject: Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:11:44 -0700 (PDT)   Hello Gregory,   I think I find the D major a rather silly work too!   I once heard Dr Francis Jackson, at the peak of his considerable performing powers back in the 70's, hit bottom EEE.   With considerable panache, he extemporised a wonderful equivalent to the "Pedal Exercitium" and landed back on bottom DDD!!   His comment afterwards?   "Oh dear! I'm sure that's where that D should have been!"   You're right about having to pivot mid-pedal solo. That is the hardest bit. Being rather short in the leg, I do a sort of little jump and re-seat myself in the new position. The only other way, is to grasp the key jambs either side......the Jean Gilliuo (Sp?) school of showmanship!! Unfortunately, I haven't yet mastered the art of looking vertically upwards and shaking my head about at the same time....that was the Fox school of showmanship!   It's all good fun.   Regards,   Colin         __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: RE: premise for discussion From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:23:45 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   The Swell organ of St.Augustine's, Kilburn, London, where I used to be OC, has an almost identical stop-list to St.Paul's.....plus a gorgeous pear-shaped Vox Humana.   It is incredibly effective.   The tierce mixture added both brilliance and its own reediness of course, and although I can't recall if it had any breaks other than at the top end, I suspect that it did not.   One thing I can tell you, a Fr Willis 16ft reed is NOT very powerful, and becomes almost Contra Oboe like in the bass. The 4ft Principal and the 16ft reed produce a very effective mini full swell. Add the Mixture, and it become a third full-swell. Use 'em all, and "hell hath no fury etc etc".   Like all Fr Willis organs, it worked to a formula, but work it certainly did. It is easy to understand, after the gentle tones of the immediate pre-era, why organists thought the Fr Willis sound to be the best in the world.   Of all big English sounds, the Fr Willis one still has considerable appeal.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK                 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo  
(back) Subject: Re: Qualified ELCA Organists From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 11:25:58 -0400   On 8/5/04 6:09 AM, "Hans-Friedrich Hell" <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de> wrote:   > Dr. Thomas Schmidt, St. Peters's Lutheran Church in Manhattan (ELCA), is > probably one of the most competent Lutheran liturgical organists and > choirmasters I have encountered. The music program of St. Peter's, in > particular the yearly "Basically Bach" weekend is, as to my experience, > unparalleled   Hans: With the very mild reservation that the real yardstick of a Lutheran organist's excellence lies not ultimately in any annual weekend fest (or even in what=B9s accomplished on an Easter morning)--as wonderful as they are (and I've been there for them), but in what he or she does week after week on Sunday morning, I thoroughly agree with your assessment of what "goes on= " at St. Peter's. For a couple of years I sang in the choir there some decades ago under Dr. T. Gordon Jones (in the old church), who, to my understanding, BUILT that parish music program over a period of some three decades. Only the Holy Spirit could have ensured that a Dr. Schmidt could be Gordon=B9s successor in the present generation=8Band for as many more as possible! =20   (And, remarkably, several neighboring ELCA parish musicians are snapping at his heels to force him to stay ahead of them!)   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: Qualified ELCA Organists From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:28:58 -0400   On 8/4/04 3:05 PM, "Swedish5702@aol.com" <Swedish5702@aol.com> wrote:   > Being a traveling FM radio executive I try and make it to a service every > Sunday. One thing I have noticed in a great many Lutheran churches is the= lack > of top notch players. >=20 > =A7=A7=A7 Craig: That cannot be much of a surprise, can it? I think of =B3top > notch=B2 as meaning perhaps in the top two percent. In the case of ELCA th= at > would mean 200 organists nationwide. (Not very many, and yet more than I= =B9d > expect to be =B3top notch.=B2) If we increase =B3top notch=B2 to FIVE percent, t= hat=B9s > 500 ELCA organists? Dare we hope for 500 =B3top notch=B2 ELCA organists? (I= =B9m > not terribly optimistic.) >=20 > Don't get me wrong, there are many excellent organists and choir director= s > leading the worship service. It has just been in local non mainline citie= s > that I have experienced this. >=20 > =A7=A7=A7 Experienced the desired excellence, or the lack of it? There are su= rely > some fine organists =B3off the beaten track,=B2 but MOST of the better ones I > suppose are drawn to larger urban centers, especially those with strong > Lutheran constituencies and traditions. (I=B9m impressed that you can even= say, > =B3many excellent=B2=8BI might not have been so sanguine.) >=20 > The priority seems to be to have an assistant pastor first and whatever m= onies > remain go for the organist/choir director. >=20 > =A7=A7=A7 That=B9s for darn sure! >=20 > Do any of the organ performance schools provide for internships that woul= d > afford these local ELCA congregations to receive the absolute best for sa= y a > semester or two or even once a month? >=20 > =A7=A7=A7 I doubt it. =B3Absolute best=B2 is a VERY stratospheric category! And = any > =B3once a month=B2 schedule wouldn=B9t do any good at all. Perhaps even be > counterproductive. (=B3Oh, WE can never do THAT!=B2) An organ player can=B9t > operate in a vacuum; he or she has to spend (at least) several years BUIL= DING > a program, teaching, encouraging, bringing not only an instrument or a ch= oir, > but a whole congregation, up to some desired standard. No? >=20 >=20 > Your thoughts on the above. >=20 >=20 > =A7=A7=A7 Yes, Craig! You are a rare bird in that you get to do that Sunday > morning =B3tourist=B2 thing; I=B9d really like to hear more from you about that= .. > How widely do you travel? Any parish music programs you=B9d like (delicate= ly) > to mention by name? >=20 > I=B9ll bet it=B9s often rather discouraging. Do you have any way of =B3finding= the > best in town=B2 in advance, or do you just have to stick a pin in a map? (= If it > were I, I=B9d just phone two or three ELCA parishes and bluntly ask, =B3Who=B9s= got > the best music within 30 miles of here?=B2 Is that too blunt?) >=20 > Alan >=20    
(back) Subject: Re: Informal survey - most difficult Bach From: "Scott" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:31:20 -0500   Silly or not, its still fun to play! Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St. Champaign, IL 61820 217.390.0158 www.scottmontgomerymusic.net    
(back) Subject: Ruffatti in Naples From: <FLTim@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:10:11 EDT   Hello Friends,   Here is a little more regarding the newest Ruffatti organ here in the = states. Enjoy! http://www.fpcnaples.org/   Best regards, Timothy L. Newby, Vice President     Central Music, Inc. Serving Florida's churches since 1958 Representing: Rodgers Instruments, Fratelli Ruffatti - distinguished pipe organ builders = of Padua Italy and Bluthner concert pianos Visit us on the web at: http://www.centralmusic.biz