PipeChat Digest #4685 - Sunday, August 8, 2004
 
Re: perpetuating myths
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!)
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: "experienced" pipe organs
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!)
  by "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net>
Re: perpetuating myths
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Sawdust
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
RE: Sawdust
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!)
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
used electronics
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!)
  by <Tspiggle@aol.com>
OHS
  by "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!)
  by "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net>
Re: OHS
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!)
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
What did you play today?
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
 

(back) Subject: Re: perpetuating myths From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 05:49:14 EDT   >Someone mentioned the "mega-bucks" required to move and restore a >vintage organ. > >Yes, moving and restoring the Emmanuel Church Casavant WOULD be a major >project, but it is suitable for a large church that would be spending a >million dollars or more on a NEW pipe organ. IF the organ IS on ventil >chessts, then it probably WOULD require new chests; but in that case it >COULD be re-configured for different space requirements. Mention was >also made of the need to replace the beautiful and elegant Casavant >console. To what purpose? One MIGHT modernize the innards (or not ... >Woolsey Hall's mighty Skinner is controlled by the same console and >remote combination machines it has always had, and they work >FLAWLESSLY), but Farnum provided an amazing number of "modern" >registrational aids, if one studies the accessory list carefully. > >GOOD organists of his day played big literature with a MINIMUM of >registrational aids ... I am frankly of the opinion that present-day >organists depend ALL TOO MUCH on the console "toys" and don't spend >ENOUGH time learning how to make MUSIC. > >That's a particular organ that needs a VERY large church with spacious >organ-lofts (which, of course, could be PLANNED for in a new building). That was me who mentioned the Emmanuel Church organ. My church had a = budget of almost $2 million to spend on the new organ. However, we were limited = on space once the design of the building started. We didn't have room for = some of the things I wanted--like a full length 32' Open Wood. (I'm not sure = if Emmanuel has one or not) The way our building is designed made for some challenges for the organ builder. Even after the organ was initially = designed, the architect's design team, had to go back to the organ builder and ask = them to reconfigure the chambers, which necessitated redoing the layout of the =   organ, due to having to widen the hallway BEHIND the sanctuary, which = ended up shortening the chamber depth. It was a good thing that the builders had = asked for generous chamber space at the beginning to allow for such mishaps. However, in this design fiasco, it also changed the shape of the chambers =   slightly. If we had been using "previously experienced chests," we would = have been out of luck, because we at this point, probably would have had to have = new chests built. Also a problem in our building is that our chambers had to be on either = side of the baptistry, we didn't have room for them in any other place, and = also in a Baptist church, 99% of the time, that is where they are going to be. = We didn't have triforium arches to lay long pipes in, we weren't going to have any kind of organ loft. As to console design, our builder designed a console shell that was very clean, with minimal design on it, that would go well with the clean lines = of the new building. Our architect team wanted to go back and redo and undo and =   change things so the console matched the designs on all the pulpit = woodwork. A "previously used console" would not have worked colorwise or decoration = wise in our context. All the wood in our new sanctuary will be two toned--mahogany with light cherry accents. Unless we happened to find = something in those color schemes, our architects and designers would be doing flips. The conolse at Woolsey Hall and Emmanuel Church were state of the art in THEIR day. They didn't have multiple memories. However, Farnam had = double pistons on his organ to control both the front and back organs. Woolsey = Hall only has something like 4 generals on it, but has a good number of = divisionals, if I remember. I've only played it once. I've played some Skinners that =   only had 2 general pistons. There is SIMPLY no way in one of my services = I could get by with that--try playing for almost 45 minutes straight = through BEFORE the sermon, and then the altar call, hymn, the reflection, benediction, = and postlude. It's a good hour or more of ORGAN music, both solo and accompanimental--ranging from baroque, to romantic, to contemporary = gospel. I don't have time to hand register a lot of things when I have to jump from Bach = to an anthem to a gospel hymn and then underscore a prayer. I have to hit a = piston and go. If I only had a couple of generals and one memory level I'd = spend the whole sermon setting pistons--and that wouldn't be good. In a 3,000 seat church, or even in our current 1,000+ seat church (with living room acoustics), a 15 or 20 stop organ just wouldn't work. The = smallest of our adult choirs is 85 members and they could outsing it anyday. When = we bring all the adult choirs together as a "mass choir," they can outsing = our 52 rank pipe organ now, and they're not forcing themselves! It's just a = huge sound when over 200 people, many of whom are trained singers and = musicians, open their mouths and start to really sing. There's no myth being perpetuated about the costs to move a vintage organ. = Have you seen some of the newsletters from some organ builders lately? = Some of them will "sell" the organ for next to nothing IF you buy the organ = from them, but then they will restore and install the 12 rank organ for = $100,000, for instance. (I've actually seen this in an ad!) Monty Bennett Friendship Baptist Church Charlotte, NC  
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 06:38:10 EDT   In a message dated 8/8/2004 12:26:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, nycchelsea@yahoo.com writes:   > like to know some experiences from those who > know them? are they reliable? built well? how do > they sound? > >   built okay reliable and parts to repair are out there sound European classical   how much are you paying....if it is a great price then you are okay.   dale in florida  
(back) Subject: Re: "experienced" pipe organs From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 06:39:15 EDT   In a message dated 8/8/2004 12:08:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, Joshwwhite@aol.com writes:   > gee, I'm glad I don't have to play a Baldwin 5 every Sunday!"   i own one of these at my parents house if someone wants one...... it still works too   grinning in florida  
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) From: "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net> Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 11:00:31 -0400   Hi John,   I had a Baldwin D911. It was built by Viscount about 1990 for Church Organ =   Sales, just as the D912 was.   I found the organ to be of very inferior construction.   The wood was actually made of sawdust with glue mixed in with it to make the "planks". This was covered with a vinyl coating to give it the wood grain look,   Unfortunately, the glue was not spread out evenly in the sawdust, so there =   were spots where there was nothing but sawdust. Little by little, as the organ sat in my living room, small piles of sawdust began piling up around =   the base of the organ.   The bench became creaky and loose, eventually falling apart, because the screws went into areas where the loose sawdust would not hold the screws.   The organ was struck by a power surge, (although it was plugged into a surge protector) knocking out several of the IC chip circuits. The repairman had to send to Italy for replacement chips (3 weeks), and the organ never completely worked right after that.   The electrical construction of the organ consists of small printed circuit =   boards "stapled" to a large "wooden" platform behind the manuals. To connect between the circuit boards, there are flat multi-wire cables "pressed" into connectors with no caps on the connectors to hold the wires =   in place. Over time, the flat wire cable, which had some springiness to it, came loose from the connectors and had to be re-seated in the connectors for the organ to work.   The pedal section is made to slide under the front of the console. It is held in place by two metal "nails" which keep the pedalboard from moving from the center location. Unfortunately, the holes in the console are = very near the edge of the area where they can be reached. On my organ, these holes "broke out" from the pressure of the pedalboard's movement.   The keyboards are the famed (har har) Fatar keyboards. There are no adjustments to them, and if a problem develops, you can plan on replacing the entire keyboard. They are made of thin metal and plastic, and are of very inferior quality.   The sound of the D-911 and D-912 is of North German quality. Very = screechy in the upper registers.   Would I have one again? Only if I got it for a "very" small amount of money and went into the transaction knowing that I was getting a poorly made organ that would not last.   I saw a D-912 on eBay recently in Iowa, and it the seller did not sell it at the price of about $2500.00.   It is not worth more than that, in my opinion.   For that price, you can get an older Allen MOS-2 or ADC digital or Rodgers =   later analog. Either of them will play for a very long time and the construction will be first-rate. Allen's and Rodgers don't fall apart, = and the electrical components are wired solidly.   The D-911 and D-912 do have MIDI feature but it is only the NOTE ON / NOTEOFF feature. It does not send program change MIDI messages, nor receive them.   Paul R. Swank Baltimore, MD     12:26 AM 8/8/04, you wrote: >HI folks...I"m considering purching a Baldwin D912 >Digital Organ. It is a 2 manual organ with AGO >pedals and drawknobs. > >Would like to know some experiences from those who >know them? are they reliable? built well? how do >they sound? > >Would VERY much appreciate thoughts on this model! > > > >thanks! >John Rust > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > >****************************************************************** >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> >List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Re: perpetuating myths From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 08:19:51 -0700         > > That was me who mentioned the Emmanuel Church organ. My church had a = budget > of almost $2 million to spend on the new organ. However, we were = limited on > space once the design of the building started. We didn't have room for = some > of the things I wanted--like a full length 32' Open Wood. (I'm not = sure if > Emmanuel has one or not) The way our building is designed made for = some > challenges for the organ builder. Even after the organ was initially = designed, > the architect's design team, had to go back to the organ builder and = ask them > to reconfigure the chambers, which necessitated redoing the layout of = the > organ, due to having to widen the hallway BEHIND the sanctuary, which = ended up > shortening the chamber depth. It was a good thing that the builders = had asked > for generous chamber space at the beginning to allow for such mishaps. =   > However, in this design fiasco, it also changed the shape of the = chambers > slightly. If we had been using "previously experienced chests," we = would have been > out of luck, because we at this point, probably would have had to have = new > chests built.   I doubt (though I don't know for certain, never having examined the Emmanuel organ ... perhaps someone who HAS can say) that the Emmanuel chest are re-useable, IF they are ventil chests.   Does anyone know if the rebuild of the big Casavant at Redlands U in CA re-used the original ventil chests or not?   > Also a problem in our building is that our chambers had to be on either = side > of the baptistry, we didn't have room for them in any other place, and = also > in a Baptist church, 99% of the time, that is where they are going to = be. We > didn't have triforium arches to lay long pipes in, > we weren't going to have any kind of organ loft.   I was using "organ loft" in the generic sense of "the place where the pipes go" (grin). > > As to console design, our builder designed a console shell that was very = > clean, with minimal design on it, that would go well with the clean = lines of the > new building. Our architect team wanted to go back and redo and undo = and > change things so the console matched the designs on all the pulpit = woodwork. A > "previously used console" would not have worked colorwise or decoration = wise > in our context. All the wood in our new sanctuary will be two > toned--mahogany with light cherry accents. Unless we happened to find = something in those > color schemes, our architects and designers would be doing flips.   I don't think violence would be done to the Casavant console by simply refinishing it ... after nearly a hundred years, it probably needs it. > > The conolse at Woolsey Hall and Emmanuel Church were state of the art in = > THEIR day. They didn't have multiple memories. However, Farnam had = double > pistons on his organ to control both the front and back organs. = Woolsey Hall > only has something like 4 generals on it, but has a good number of = divisionals, > if I remember. I've only played it once. I've played some Skinners = that > only had 2 general pistons. There is SIMPLY no way in one of my = services I > could get by with that--try playing for almost 45 minutes straight = through BEFORE > the sermon, and then the altar call, hymn, the reflection, benediction, = and > postlude. It's a good hour or more of ORGAN music, both solo and > accompanimental--ranging from baroque, to romantic, to contemporary = gospel. I don't > have time to hand register a lot of things when I have to jump from = Bach to an > anthem to a gospel hymn and then underscore a prayer. I have to hit a = piston > and go. If I only had a couple of generals and one memory level I'd = spend > the whole sermon setting pistons--and that wouldn't be good.   As I said, no REAL harm would be done by solid-stating the innards of the Casavant, with multiple memories, etc., if that was what was needed to find the organ a home. > > In a 3,000 seat church, or even in our current 1,000+ seat church (with =   > living room acoustics), a 15 or 20 stop organ just wouldn't work. The = smallest > of our adult choirs is 85 members and they could outsing it anyday. = When we > bring all the adult choirs together as a "mass choir," they can outsing = our 52 > rank pipe organ now, and they're not forcing themselves! It's just a = huge > sound when over 200 people, many of whom are trained singers and = musicians, > open their mouths and start to really sing.   I never said it would, though I played for years in an RC church that seated 1000+ where a 1928 Austin of (maybe) 30 stops supported the loud and enthusiastic singing of 1000 or more VERY convinced German-American Catholics (chuckle). Each manual division had at LEAST two Open Diapasons, including a sewer-pipe-scale 1st Open on the Great and a leather-lipped Phonon Diapason on the Swell. > > There's no myth being perpetuated about the costs to move a vintage = organ. > Have you seen some of the newsletters from some organ builders lately? = Some > of them will "sell" the organ for next to nothing IF you buy the organ = from > them, but then they will restore and install the 12 rank organ for = $100,000, > for instance. (I've actually seen this in an ad!)   Um, let's look at that: 12 ranks for $100K is $8333 per rank. Without getting involved in the perpetual argument about whether or not one can come up with an "average" price per rank, let's just say that's approximately $4K lower than the "low end" per-rank price some builders charge for new work. Of course, whether or not that's a good price would depend on the stoplist ... if it's a neo-baroque organ based on an 8' Rohrfloete with 6 ranks of mixture, it's probably NOT a good price, at least not for the kind of organ I'D want for service-playing. OTOH, it could probably serve a Lutheran church with a classic Lutheran liturgy quite well.   I also didn't mean to suggest that the Casavant was necessarily ideal for Friendship Baptist Church ... they just happened to be involved in a big organ project when the subject came up. They have the money for a new pipe organ; they WANTED a new pipe organ; more power to them!   There are other churches that could have considered it, including Our Lady of Angels Cathedral in LA. Given the way the acoustics turned out in that place, they have NEED of a double organ, as the chancel organ DOESN'T fill the nave, from all reports.   I don't know if the Casavant would have worked in the new Mormon Assembly Hall or not ... Schoenstein seems to have solved the problems inherent in that cavernous acoustically-dead space by using some really innovative scaling, voicing and winding techniques. THAT'S a "modest-sized" organ for a room seating 20,000 (!).   My point remains: there are innovative and creative solutions out there which avoid resorting to electronic substitutes, if people are willing to examine them.   Cheers,   Bud Clark San Diego CA USA        
(back) Subject: Sawdust From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 12:45:23 -0500   THE TERMITE NEWS All the news that fits we eat....if we are out of wood.   Swank Residence Collapses   in a recent interview an anonymous termite source said, "He blamed it on a = lack of glue in the organ case when we first moved into the house." = talking about Paul Swank, whose residence vanished in a could of dust = Saturday.   Swank, who was interviewed while using a vacuum cleaner attachement to try = and get the dust out of the keyboards of his extensive musical instrument = collection that survived the crash said, "I guess I thought the sound of = them eating the two by fours was just more background noise from all the = power transformer adapters I had plugged into make everything work."   A representative of the nearest Amish community, when interviewed stated = that this is why they do not espouse the use of electricity.   "When we saw the Mennonites heading in the direction of using electrity it = was revealed to us that future times would bring the howl and whine of = transformers voltage adapters when computers were invented so we chose = another path." he continued.   [More on page 3]   noel jones          
(back) Subject: RE: Sawdust From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 13:37:26 -0400     Speaking of termites:   I imported a used organ from Bermuda into Canada about 16 years ago. I placed the organ into a standard shipping container knowing full well = the organ had active termite infestation that had caused very little damage, btw.   Upon clearing through Canada customs they never once asked about termites and never checked the container. Before I opened the container I contracted a pest controller to = exterminate the critters the breed of which are not yet native to Canada. I can't believe how sloppily the customs officials handled the importation of a container full of foreign termites that could have survived our = winter if they found a warm attic to nest in-- and it wouldn't be difficult in downtown Toronto.   Lots of other interesting stuff happened as well concerning the shipment = of organ parts but I've no time to tell. AjMead      
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:00:09 EDT   In a message dated 8/8/2004 10:53:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, prswank@surfbest.net writes:   > I had a Baldwin D911. It was built by Viscount about 1990 for Church = Organ > Sales, just as the D912 was. > >   the D911 WAS NOT MADE BY WISCOUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!   so all comparasin are to be read with caution.   parts are available today for the D912 at COS in Wisconsin. In a stock = room.   and while i have no quarter with Fatar, they did and do make various = grades of keyboards......the 912 was an upgrade because they switched = manufacturers.   I used to sell Baldwins...............   i say save money and buy new.....but whatever. Be fair and honest. my model 5 is still playing.   dale in florida  
(back) Subject: used electronics From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:18:53 EDT   As always,   we know buyer beware.   interesting i think that until the last 10 years, one size fit = all-----just add more speakers or less.   BUT,   we have trouble moving older organs into different places.....   I just played a Baldwin D-911 in Ocala Florida, working fine and bench = still in one piece.......last one standing wins.   no more from me on Viscount Organs.....   dale in florida  
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) From: <Tspiggle@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:22:28 EDT   Well, Dale, to be "fair and honest" I believe the Baldwin model 5 was = built by the Baldwin factory while the D-912 was built after Baldwin Organ Co. = "bit the dust". Although the D-912 had a Baldwin nameplate on it, it was built somewhere else. I believe Church Organ Systems bought the Baldwin name, = and although I don't know anything about the quality of their instruments, = they aren't really a product of the old Baldwin company.   Tom  
(back) Subject: OHS From: "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:26:27 -0400     Dear List members, On July 23rd, Malcolm Weschler posted what was in effect a personal attack on me. I chose not to respond to his numerous factual inaccuracies and snide comments because: 1) I don't need his "approval", 2) Those that know me don't need to hear me defending myself from such rubbish and 3) I did not want to detract from the real purposes of this list. That being said, I feel some comment must be made about his "hatchet-job" on Felix Hell's appearance at the OHS convention. Other posters have corrected many of the mis-statements that Malcolm has made about the length of Felix's concert and we have heard from other attendees about the performance itself. It is especially unfortunate that an OHS Board Member should have known the facts before sharing mis-information with the list, instead of implying that he, as a board member, was expressing the opinion of the OHS Board. For those on the list not aware of the "backstory", let me simply say that Malcolm has once again used this list as a platform for personal attacks. That is NOT the purpose of this list and should not be tolerated by either the administrators OR the list members. If anyone would like to continue this thread, please contact me OFFLIST. Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY "Sage of Skaneateles"  
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) From: "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net> Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 17:54:45 -0400   For information on the manufacturer of the "Baldwin" D-911 and D-912, look =   on page 13 of the "Mother Of All Electronic Organ Lists" compiled by Jan Girardot of the Musical Instrument Technicians Association (MITA).   <http://www.lizardweb.com/organ/E-organ_list_v.4_(DB)1.pdf>   I know what the labels on the inside of my Baldwin D-911 said, and I know where my service technician had to send to Italy for the replacement IC chips for the organ.   Not opinion, but facts.   If you would like verification about the cabling connections of the organ, =   take the back off one and look.   If the owner won't let you look inside, then look elsewhere for a = different organ.   Paul R. Swank. Baltimore, MD.     At 04:22 PM 8/8/04, you wrote: >Well, Dale, to be "fair and honest" I believe the Baldwin model 5 was >built by the Baldwin factory while the D-912 was built after Baldwin = Organ >Co. "bit the dust". Although the D-912 had a Baldwin nameplate on it, it >was built somewhere else. I believe Church Organ Systems bought the >Baldwin name, and although I don't know anything about the quality of >their instruments, they aren't really a product of the old Baldwin = company. > >Tom    
(back) Subject: Re: OHS From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 16:42:19 -0700     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>   >It is especially unfortunate that > an OHS Board Member should have known the facts before sharing > mis-information with the list, instead of implying that he, as a board > member, was expressing the opinion of the OHS Board.   I think I'm on firm ground stating that there was absolutely no = implication in what Malcolm wrote that he was expressing anyone's opinion other than his own. Readers of course are always free to make inferences, however unfounded.   MAF      
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 17:14:50 -0700   AFAIK, the Baldwin Model 5s were built in the old Baldwin factory in Cincinnati, or possibly in a separate facility across the river in Kentucky ... churches in that neck of the woods are STILL infested with them. The SOUND may be execrable, but they DID last.   Question is: who WANTED them to last that long? (chuckle).   A side note: Cincinnati Music Hall only recently replaced their (donated) abominable Baldwin "Wave-Form" thing with a 4m Allen, having junked their 4m Hook/Austin, only to discover that the space wasn't usable after all ... the pipe organ sat on a raised concrete shelf above the boiler room (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   Tspiggle@aol.com wrote:   > Well, Dale, to be "fair and honest" I believe the Baldwin model 5 was > built by the Baldwin factory while the D-912 was built after Baldwin > Organ Co. "bit the dust". Although the D-912 had a Baldwin nameplate on > it, it was built somewhere else. I believe Church Organ Systems bought > the Baldwin name, and although I don't know anything about the quality > of their instruments, they aren't really a product of the old Baldwin > company. > > Tom      
(back) Subject: What did you play today? From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 20:52:46 -0400   Music List Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio   Lutheran Book of Worship, Setting 2   Prelude: Jesus, Still Lead On Sigfrid Karg-Elert Hymn: Open Now Thy Gates of Beauty (Unser Herrscher) Hymn: Jesus, Still Lead On (Seelenbrautigam) Solo: His Eye Is On the Sparrow Charles Gabriel Nichole Dittman, soprano Hymn: He Leadeth Me, O Blessed Thought Offertory: Allegretto, from Monologe Josef Rheinberger Hymn: Blessed Be the God of Israel (Forest Green) Postlude: Postlude I, from Four Postludes Jean Langlais   The Karg-Elert is the perfect prelude for teaching the pew-talkers a = lesson! They get embarrassed into silence when the sudden soft passages after = those in which full organ is called for catch them yelling at the top of their lungs. By the time the prelude was over, you could hear a pin drop. Another good piece for that effect is probably Rheinberger's "Vision." = Any more suggestions for that quite useful genre?   I bet someone will want to take me to task for having the wrong attitude = ;-)   Another fun thing about the K-E Seelenbrautigam is that it's a piece in which it is quite licit to use the crescendo pedal! He tells you to do = it.   Another question: Are there any other notable settings of this tune for organ?     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu