PipeChat Digest #4687 - Monday, August 9, 2004 Re: Dale Wood favorite by "Margo Dillard" <email@example.com> Re: What did you play today? by <Keys4bach@aol.com> Re: ?for Bud and What did you play today? by <Keys4bach@aol.com> Re: Baldwin "Wave-Form" in Cincinatti by <Keys4bach@aol.com> Re: Baldwin "Wave-Form" in Cincinatti and More by <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Re: Baldwin "Wave-Form" in Cincinatti and More by <Keys4bach@aol.com> Wunderkind? by "jch" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Scottish music for organ by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Re: Scottish music for organ by "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: PipeChat Digest #4686 - 08/09/04 by "Paul Kealy" <email@example.com> Are we killing our instrument??? X-post by <RMB10@aol.com> Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Re: Baldwin "Wave-Form" in Cincinatti and More by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Re: Are we killing our instrument??? X-post by "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> RE: What did you play today? by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) by <Keys4bach@aol.com> RE: What did you play today? by "T.Desiree' Hines" <email@example.com> it's not all black and white, folks by "Liquescent" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
(back) Subject: Re: Dale Wood favorite From: "Margo Dillard" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 05:36:02 -0500 The one that gets the most reaction from my congregation is a fun little piece called "Prelude on a Sunday School Song" or something like that. It is a setting of Jesus Loves Me. Margo Glenda wrote: > Another question: What is your favorite Dale Wood piece? > > I don't know them all, but so far my favorites are the Pisgah piece > mentioned last week and "My Shepherd Will Supply My Need" (tune > Resignation). > > This question functions as a recommendation to me of what other Dale > Wood would be excellent for either service or recital. > > Glenda Sutton > firstname.lastname@example.org > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:email@example.com > Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:email@example.com> > List-Digest: <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:email@example.com> > > -- Dr. Margo Dillard Organist, FUMC, Lewisville, TX Musical Feast Choral Society Dillard Piano & Organ Studio
(back) Subject: Re: What did you play today? From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:08:04 EDT In a message dated 8/8/2004 11:37:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, firstname.lastname@example.org writes: > - Holy, Holy (Owens) > > an amazing "spiritual song" we have to sing Holy somewhere around 30 times and in the Bible it is at = most used 3 times in a row...................................... dale in florida
(back) Subject: Re: ?for Bud and What did you play today? From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:08:32 EDT In a message dated 8/8/2004 11:34:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, PMMGBOB@aol.com writes: > well, carillon and toccata weren't..... > Lucia > THANKS....i did not think so................ dale in Florida
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin "Wave-Form" in Cincinatti From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:10:42 EDT In a message dated 8/8/2004 10:34:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, email@example.com = writes: > Wonder if > there are still any left anywhere. > it was awful compared to pipe but it was top notch when it was new. that was the last one in Cinti that i know of as Mr Fishers old church got = a Pinchi-Rodgers combo..... dale in florida missing skyline chili in cinti
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin "Wave-Form" in Cincinatti and More From: <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 08:14:35 EDT Hey, Y'all! I remember only 2 Baldwin Multi-Wave Forms or whatever they were called = from the early 70's. The one at Music Hall was a most unfortunate sound. I = remember the opening event where Thomas Shippers played and conducted the Poulenc Concerto. I remember his playing o.k., but the organ was just plain ol' = ugly! The other Cincinnati organ was at Wayne Fisher's church, 7th Presbyterian, = installed after the church was firebombed by their resident clergy, J. = Elliott P Morrison (no period after the "P" since it wasn't an abbreviation). Why I remember the name 30+ years later, I don't know, but there you go. Mr. = Fisher's Baldwin was an o.k. sound with some very pleasant quiet sounds, but still = an unacceptable full organ sound. There were a couple of fun times when I substituted for him, however; his first soprano was Kathy Battle! Have a great day! Yours, Darryl by the Sea Nashville, TN
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin "Wave-Form" in Cincinatti and More From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 08:28:15 EDT In a message dated 8/9/2004 8:15:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, DarrylbytheSea@aol.com writes: > but the organ was just plain ol' ugly! i was at that concert and did not hear the same organ.....the pipes?! were = quite ugly though. fishers church was smaller giving the organ a better time of it........it = was state of the art at the time.....much like my model 5.............<G> dale in Florida
(back) Subject: Wunderkind? From: "jch" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 07:50:14 -0500 There has been a bit of controversy swirling around one of the = performances at the OHS Convention. There is little that I can add to what has already been said, other than = to say many of us were disappointed in the program. Maybe we've come to expect too much, or maybe = it was the level of saturation of all the excellent organ performances we had already = heard. That is not the purpose of this post. Rather I would like to make you = aware of another fantastic young artist on the horizon. He name is Nathan Laub, fifteen years, old = who gave a farewell concert at his home church, Saint Paul The Apostle Catholic Church in Gurnee, Illinois. He wiil be leaving soon for further studies at the Curtis Institiute in Philadelphia. He just completed his sophomore year at Chicago Academy of the Arts where he studied piano with Louis Playford and organ with Dr, Beth Naegle. It was a repeat performance of a program he gave earlier in the year to dedicate the church's new Rogers Digital Organ installation. It is exciting to see and hear someone who is so passionate about the instrument we love. As well as extremely talented at the keyboard, he is also very = knowledgable about the instrument and the history of' the music he played. Included below is the program from this concert. If you hear of Nathan playing in your area it is well worth your time to go hear him. Saint Paul The Apostle Catholic Church, Gurnee, Illinois, Sunday August = 8th 2004 Fantasy and Fugue in g minor, BWV 542, Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750) "Ihr habt nun Traurigkeit" from "Ein deutsches Requiem," Opus 45 Johannes Brahms (1833-1897) Arranged by Nathan Laube...featuring Ruth Peck, Soprano* Fugue sur le nom d'Alain, Maurice Durafle (1902-1986) Intermission Moderato from Symphonie Romaine, Opus 73, Charles- Marie Widor (1844-1937) "Requiescat in Pace" Leo Sowerby (1895-1968) Choral no. III in A minor, Cesar Franck (1822-1890) "Tu es Petra, et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversus ter" Henri Mulet (1878-1967) *Ruth Peck is the DOM at Saint Paul....she sang the Brahms without the aid = of amplification, and my wife who is a more unbiased critic than I commented on on well Nathan accompanied Ruth's vocal select..to quote. "He didn't try and play over her"...a refreshing change for some of us still recovering from the Buffalo Hymn Fest respectfully, Jon C. Habermaas Lindenhurst, Illinois
(back) Subject: Re: Scottish music for organ From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 09:28:44 -0400 On 8/8/04 9:29 PM, "Robert Lind" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > I will be playing for in a few weeks were engaged in Scotland > at the ruins of an abbey and have family in that country. Maybe it's a reach, but perhaps there's a transcription of Mendelssohn's Hebrides =3D=3D and something else the name of which can't remember. Also, didn't Grieg write something with Scottish themes? Alan
(back) Subject: Re: Scottish music for organ From: "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 06:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Hello, Wasn't Moffat Scottish? Regards, Colin Mitchell UK __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4686 - 08/09/04 From: "Paul Kealy" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 06:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Evensong at St. Patrick and some fellowship with Alan Freed! Tour of Radio City Music Hall The Organs at St. Patrick The original organs in Saint Patrick's Cathedral were built by George = Jardine and Sons, one of New York's organ builders during the later half = of the 19th century. With the appointment, in 1926, of Pietro Yon as = Organist/Director of Music, plans were initiated to replace the organs. = The St. Louis firm of Kilgen and Sons was engaged to build two new = instruments according to designs which were heavily influenced by the = Cathedral's world renowned organist Pietro Yon. The Kilgen Company first delivered the Chancel Organ located near the = sanctuary in 1928. During the building period it was determined that the = gallery would need to be extended to accommodate the new Grand Gallery = Organ. In the late 1920's a concrete reinforced extension to the original = gallery was constructed. In 1930, the present instrument, with one of the = nation's most glorious wood facades adorned with angels and Latin = inscriptions was completed. In the 1940's and 50's tonal changes were made and in the 1970's and 80's = additional renovations were made particularly in the re-voicing of reeds = and the addition of the Trumpet en Chamade. In the 1990's two new twin = five-manual consoles were built by Robert Turner and the cleaning and = refinishing of the facade pipes and wood were completed. The Chancel Organ is located in the North Ambulatory, close to the main = altar. Its 1,480 pipes are located on the opposite side of the Ambulatory, = diagonally across from the console. The Chancel Organ complements the = Gallery Organ in the playing of hymns and also provides the music for = services held in the Lady Chapel. The combined Gallery and Cancel organs = have 177 stops containing over 9,000 pipes. Both organs can be played from = either five-manual console. The Peragallo Organ Company of New Jersey has = been appointed as curators of the organs. Paul E. Kealy Fellow-lister wrote: I'm spending the week in NYC... What should I absolutely not miss?
(back) Subject: Are we killing our instrument??? X-post From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:04:26 EDT Last night, I went to an organ recital and I came home upset. This = recital was performed as part of our local AGO chapter's Summer series and was performed on a large 4 manual GDH signature Aeolian-Skinner in a local = college auditorium that seats 3,500 people with good acoustics. I was expecting = to hear the organ's resources exploited--in reality, I was underwhelmed. Let me first say that the playing was ok--not overly exciting, rather dry, = but ok. The organist seemed timid and afraid to use the organ. This is = what really got me upset. Here was a 67 rank organ in a barn of a building = and the first piece was a Bach chorale prelude. The registration used the = Great 8, 4, 2, IV and Pedal Principals, 16, 8, 4, and soft pedal 16' reed. While = it would have been fine for a piece inside the program, it was such an uninspiriring opener, due to the "academic" style of registration. I = have no bones with anyone who chooses to perform in a historically informed practice, = but on an organ like this, would it not have been better to either open with an attention grabber or register in a more "Virgilesque" style, to show off = the organ and grab people and draw them in? From the Bach, we were taken to 17th century Spain, and heard a tiento by = Gabriel Manalt. Again, this was not anything to show off what the organ = could do. Whatever happened to playing literature that was appropriate to a particular instrument and that would also be pleasing to the audience. = The predominant makeup of the audience was more of an elderly crowd, but = there were some younger people there, who I would assume were probably piano students. The second half of the program was more fitting to the organ, since we = heard the Franck Chorale in a minor, the Flor Peeters Aria, Crown Imperial, and = the Lefebure-Wely Sortie in E Flat. Again, however, the performances were = dry. This organ has rich celestes and a couple of nice color reeds, but we = never heard them. I know that the Peeters Aria calls for 16 and 8 reeds on the = opening melody, but let's throw some caution to the wind and make some = music. Peeters was writing on a Dutch organ, not on an American instrument. He didn't have reeds like English Horns, Clarinets, French Horns, or even = Orchestral Flutes at his disposal, nor did he have the multitude of celestes that we = do. After an almost an hour of hearing mixtures and mutations, I was = ready to hear a flute celeste or a voix celeste just to give my ears a break. I = know that some of the elderly people with their Miracle Ears and Beltones were = needing a break, too! I wonder if we as organists are not killing off our instrument by not = making music. Yes I know we need to be informed of historic practice, I have no = arguement there. However, when performing, I think that MAKING MUSIC = needs to be the ultimate goal. Sometimes I think we get too caught up in in being = correct that we end up being dull. The audience last night was not = large. There were probably only 20 people under the age of 50 there. What does = that say? It's no wonder that people think the organ is dull. After hearing programs like I did last night, I can see why people have the feeling = that the organ belongs in the funeral home with it's warbling tremolo played by the old lady or in the old stuffy churches. There was nothing exciting about the = organ last night. If I was a piano student wanting to learn about the organ, I = would have been sadly discouraged. I think we need to take a look at how we make music and how we program our = recitals. There are some artists who do, but they are in the minority. = It just hurts me that we are doing this to ourselves... What bothers me is = that I think it's being done unknowingly. Monty Bennett
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:18:13 -0400 At 04:22 PM 2004-08-08 -0400, you wrote: >Well, Dale, to be "fair and honest" I believe the Baldwin model 5 was >built by the Baldwin factory while the D-912 was built after Baldwin = Organ >Co. "bit the dust". Although the D-912 had a Baldwin nameplate on it, it >was built somewhere else. I believe Church Organ Systems bought the >Baldwin name, and although I don't know anything about the quality of >their instruments, they aren't really a product of the old Baldwin = company. > >Tom Tom, Any D-900 series organ from Baldwin was made in Italy by either GeneralMusic (Galanti) or Intercontinental Music (Viscount). After the = mid 80s Baldwin only came out with their own I believe D-400 series organs, which were not terribly great and also were expensive. They never sold very well. I believe the console hardware may have been built by Klann. As to the Italian products, the D-900 series stuff was first generation sample playback. The build quality however was not the greatest, and I doubt that any organ of that era will last anywhere near as long as a = Model 5. Baldwin stayed in the organ business until 1997, when they basically spun it off to Duanne Kuhn, their long time organ man (classical organs that is), who moved the company to Baldwin, Wisconsin. Baldwin Piano & Organ, went under in 2001, with the tradmarks and some assets being bought up by Gibson Guitars. Arie V.
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:29:48 -0400 At 09:26 PM 2004-08-07 -0700, you wrote: >HI folks...I"m considering purching a Baldwin D912 >Digital Organ. It is a 2 manual organ with AGO >pedals and drawknobs. > >Would like to know some experiences from those who >know them? are they reliable? built well? how do >they sound? > >Would VERY much appreciate thoughts on this model! > > > >thanks! >John Rust John, You want the straight goods on this? If you can get it real cheap, go for it. Otherwise think twice. These organs came out in the late 80s, and are made by Viscount. The design in some ways is a knock-off of the Galanti Praeludium models 1 and = 2 .. The sound is classical, sort of neo baroque. Actually very good for = the time. Problem areas: pedalboard has serious issues with clatter (noise), and switching ( intermittant contacts, and twang sounds from the springs) Power supplies were another problem with the 5V supply running too hot, = and would break down over time because of thermal cycling. Some of the organs = also had a fair number of solder connection problems. The pedalboard problems can be fixed, but it is very time consumming. = Just about all the organs we sold of that era, have had the pedalboard replaced. The power supply problems, can be fixed, but the best solution is a medical analog power supply added to the system. Little switching supplies don't work very well. Overall build quality just does not inspire much confidence. At this = time, I would look elsewhere for a budget instrument. Speaking as one who has taken the back off too many of these = organs........... Arie V.
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin "Wave-Form" in Cincinatti and More From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:35:28 -0400 At 08:14 AM 2004-08-09 -0400, you wrote: >Hey, Y'all! >I remember only 2 Baldwin Multi-Wave Forms or whatever they were called >from the early 70's. The one at Music Hall was a most unfortunate sound. = I >remember the opening event where Thomas Shippers played and conducted the = >Poulenc Concerto. I remember his playing o.k., but the organ was just >plain ol' ugly! > >The other Cincinnati organ was at Wayne Fisher's church, 7th = Presbyterian, >installed after the church was firebombed by their resident clergy, J. >Elliott P Morrison (no period after the "P" since it wasn't an >abbreviation). Why I remember the name 30+ years later, I don't know, but = >there you go. Mr. Fisher's Baldwin was an o.k. sound with some very >pleasant quiet sounds, but still an unacceptable full organ sound. There >were a couple of fun times when I substituted for him, however; his first = >soprano was Kathy Battle! > >Have a great day! > >Yours, > >Darryl by the Sea >Nashville, TN Darryl, While the multi-wave form organ may have been a good idea, in practise it was a disaster. You could say it was an analog version of the now common sample playback. However it was not reliable, and by the sounds of it, Baldwin never did come up with good audio systems to make it sound any = good. I read once that only a few of these instruments were ever built, because they were so expensive their market was limited. I doubt that more than a = few exist in playable condition. With Baldwin gone, I'm sure support for these instruments is nigh near = zero. Arie V.
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 11:50:48 -0400 At 04:00 PM 2004-08-08 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 8/8/2004 10:53:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, >email@example.com writes: > >>I had a Baldwin D911. It was built by Viscount about 1990 for Church = Organ >>Sales, just as the D912 was. > > >the D911 WAS NOT MADE BY WISCOUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >so all comparasin are to be read with caution. > >parts are available today for the D912 at COS in Wisconsin. In a stock = room. > >and while i have no quarter with Fatar, they did and do make various >grades of keyboards......the 912 was an upgrade because they switched >manufacturers. > >I used to sell Baldwins............... > >i say save money and buy new.....but whatever. Be fair and honest. >my model 5 is still playing. > >dale in florida Dale, If the D-911 was not made by Viscount, then who made them? I believe I serviced a D-911, and it indeed was a Viscount, or Intercontinental Music product. Arie V.
(back) Subject: Re: Are we killing our instrument??? X-post From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:08:47 -0700 (PDT) YES MONTY...we ARE killing our instrument. And the colleges continue to = hire these people to head off organ departments. I REFUSE to study with = stodgy teachers, and would rather continue my career as I am doing. Heaven = help someone who does not use an academic registration. They would get = gadgered by the field. Remember how people at Pacific Lutheran Univ talked = about Felix Hell's concert? Let's drop it with the purism people, really. From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: RE: What did you play today? From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:27:47 -0400 I chose Hymnal 1982:701 "Jesus, all my gladness" (Jesu, meine Freude) as = the sequence hymn because the Holy Gospel was the passage about "Lay not = up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust corrupt" etc. This choice opens up a wealth of organ music based on the melody. The = partita by Walther is practically irresistable. (If I'd had the = opportunity, I'd have been glad to play some of the Karg-Elert = Symphonisch Choral on that melody, too). I played several verses for = the prelude, two for Communion, and the final verse as the postlude. =20 There was an error in the bulletin attributing the prelude to Bach, so I = announced the correct composer at announcement time. I wish I had = thought to make this announcement more creative and humorous, like "J.S. = Bach decided to take a little vacation, so he sent us a very fine piece = by his cousin Johnann Gottfried Walther instead." But 20-20 hindsight = and all. This is actually the first time I recall playing this eloquent hymn in = an Episcopal church, and I hope it won't be the last. It may have been = new to the congregation, but they're good singers and took it in stride. = Perhaps the way it related to the Holy Gospel helped assure them that = it was an edifying choice. Paul Emmons =20
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin D912 Digital Organs (opinions please!) From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:37:47 EDT In a message dated 8/9/2004 11:49:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com writes: > If the D-911 was not made by Viscount, then who made them? > the 911 was a general music product....when COS formed with wurlitzer = brand then everything became intercontinental. dale in Florida
(back) Subject: RE: What did you play today? From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Prelude-Communion in E Minor and Elevationin F L'org. Practique = -Guilmant Postlude--Improvisations all weekend...Sat---The Churches One Fdn = Sun...Themes that came to mind during services Hymns-How Firm a Fdn The Churchs One Fdn At That First Eucharist..cant = Remember the Offertory. From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: it's not all black and white, folks From: "Liquescent" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:01:21 -0700 One has to KNOW the rules in order to BREAK them INTELLIGENTLY, just as with Common Practice music theory and harmony. Parallel fifths can be a powerful composition tool, but ONLY if one knows how to USE them. IF one KNOWS the rules of French baroque registration, and nevertheless CHOOSES to (or HAS to) play French baroque music on a romantic organ with no cornets and the wrong sorts of reeds, then OBVIOUSLY one DOES adapt the registration to the sound of the organ. Or chooses to not play the music. Or chooses the music that WILL work, and saves the rest for a better day/organ. Crozier, Craighead, Poister, Mason, Alain, Tagliavini, Heiller, Walcha, Chorzempa, etc. were towering SCHOLARS; they were/are also exciting PLAYERS. Knowing what one is DOING does NOT preclude making the music EXCITING. Time and again I heard them (and others) bring the music to life by the correct application of touch, agogic accent, phrasing, ornamentation, etc., even on the dullest electro-pneumatic 18-wheelers. Performers in the great Romantic tradition (like Horowitz and The Fox) had the CHOPS and the MUSICALITY to bring off some of their outrageous interpretations. In a similar vein, listening to recordings of Dupre (!) or Langlais (!!) playing Bach (!!!), one is conscious of the MUSICIANSHIP; rules are secondary. For all that it's fashionable to denigrate Schweitzer's writings and recordings, I penetrated the depths of "O Mensch Bewein" by reading and listening to him; nothing I learned subsequently persuaded me to change my interpretation. AFTER one has read Spitta and Kraft and Schweitzer, etc. etc. etc., then one has the TOOLS and the KNOWLEDGE to make INTELIGENT musical decisions .... not BEFORE. Cheers, Bud