PipeChat Digest #4700 - Thursday, August 19, 2004
 
Charlie
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Networked Organ Systems (X-Posted)
  by <Devon3000@aol.com>
Re: Networked Organ Systems (X-Posted)
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: Networked Organ Systems (X-Posted)
  by "Stephen Best" <stevebest@usadatanet.net>
Langlais' Four Postludes
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Langlais' Four Postludes
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Langlais' Four Postludes
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Allen organs
  by "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip1@yahoo.com>
Re: Charlie
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
Re: Allen organs
  by <AEolianSkinner@aol.com>
Re:Networked Organ Systems (X-Posted)
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
FELIX HELL AT BOSTON SYMPHONY HALL
  by <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de>
 

(back) Subject: Charlie From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 12:47:26 EDT   Hi All,   punta gorda and port charlotte are still standing sortof......   got my power back yesterday and internet today.   church lost its wall but did not lose my toaster.........   48000 jobs gone for now in the county.   no raise this year i suppose.   thanks for your prayers and concerns.   dale in florida  
(back) Subject: Networked Organ Systems (X-Posted) From: <Devon3000@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:32:57 EDT   Hi,   I have listened to the new CD of the Marshall & Ogeltree organ, and have = been thinking about what the future would be if this type of system would ever become commonplace. According to the accompanying flyer, the organ uses = multiple hard drives. My understanding is that these are on all the time, and only =   the amplifiers get turned off and on.   The hard drives are networked not only to each other, but to the factory = by phone, where they are supposedly monitered and software repaired as = needed. A few things that came to mind right away:   1. It's eventually possible, as more of these organs are sold, to perform = on every M&O organ in the world simultaneously, with little extra effort, provided stop and piston codes are uniform.   2. Like "Big Brother", what's being played could be monitored by the builders, sort of like what's done at computers where you are employed.   3. The builders could supply Preludes, Offertories, Postludes, etc. via phone, making the organist obsolete. Any bloke from the congregation = could push the Prelude button, and so on, to complete a service without a live = organist.   In the included flyer, it is stated that the noises of wind leaks, reservoirs, tremulants, and swell shades are included. WHY??? I can't = say I heard any of that in the recording, and it seems a waste of resources and expense.   As for the sound, and this is my own opinion only, it mostly sounded like = any well-voiced Allen Renaissance organ I've ever heard. It's massive loud sounds seem to me to be very heavy in the pedal, and harshly brilliant in = the treble, without that "bloom" you like to hear in the middle frequencies. = I thought the reeds all seemed to be voiced very thin also, though probably a matter = of voicer's preferences. The full organ, as these organs get so large in specification and design, tends to sound like "magnified perfection", and = sort of like a huge blob of sound.   The literature also points out that the life expectancy of the hard drives =   and other hardware is probably no more than ten years, but, since the cost = of these is decreasing, the churches will have to spend less every ten years = in replacing these drives. Strange economic claims, but then, we have to = wait to see. We also have to wait to see how the instrument reacts to a hard = drive crash, and how independent the departments of software and hardware are. Fascinating stuff, and exciting that someone is pushing this to the = logical limits!   Devon Hollingsworth, in DeKalb, Illinois  
(back) Subject: Re: Networked Organ Systems (X-Posted) From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:48:26 -0400   At 02:32 PM 2004-08-18 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, > >I have listened to the new CD of the Marshall & Ogeltree organ, and have >been thinking about what the future would be if this type of system would =   >ever become commonplace. According to the accompanying flyer, the organ >uses multiple hard drives. My understanding is that these are on all the =   >time, and only the amplifiers get turned off and on. > >The hard drives are networked not only to each other, but to the factory >by phone, where they are supposedly monitered and software repaired as >needed. A few things that came to mind right away: > >1. It's eventually possible, as more of these organs are sold, to perform =   >on every M&O organ in the world simultaneously, with little extra effort, =   >provided stop and piston codes are uniform. > >2. Like "Big Brother", what's being played could be monitored by the >builders, sort of like what's done at computers where you are employed. > >3. The builders could supply Preludes, Offertories, Postludes, etc. via >phone, making the organist obsolete. Any bloke from the congregation >could push the Prelude button, and so on, to complete a service without a =   >live organist. > >In the included flyer, it is stated that the noises of wind leaks, >reservoirs, tremulants, and swell shades are included. WHY??? I can't >say I heard any of that in the recording, and it seems a waste of >resources and expense. > >As for the sound, and this is my own opinion only, it mostly sounded like =   >any well-voiced Allen Renaissance organ I've ever heard. It's massive >loud sounds seem to me to be very heavy in the pedal, and harshly >brilliant in the treble, without that "bloom" you like to hear in the >middle frequencies. I thought the reeds all seemed to be voiced very = thin >also, though probably a matter of voicer's preferences. The full organ, >as these organs get so large in specification and design, tends to sound >like "magnified perfection", and sort of like a huge blob of sound. > >The literature also points out that the life expectancy of the hard = drives >and other hardware is probably no more than ten years, but, since the = cost >of these is decreasing, the churches will have to spend less every ten >years in replacing these drives. Strange economic claims, but then, we >have to wait to see. We also have to wait to see how the instrument >reacts to a hard drive crash, and how independent the departments of >software and hardware are. Fascinating stuff, and exciting that someone >is pushing this to the logical limits! > >Devon Hollingsworth, in DeKalb, Illinois   Devon,   I doubt that the creators of this instrument are very flattered by having this instrument compared to a well voiced Allen. Having heard and played it I can tell you that it does not sound like any Allen I have ever heard or played.   You may not have heard all the little things that go on in this organ like =   blower noise, magnet noise, stop change noise, but they sure do add to the =   impression when you are there.   I would suggest you go there in person, and get a real live perspective on =   the instrument.   It is quite a massive organ having 85 stops X 2, for a total of 170 stops, =   a total of 74 audio channels. The ensemble is the most massive of any electronic organ I have ever come across.   Arie V.  
(back) Subject: Re: Networked Organ Systems (X-Posted) From: "Stephen Best" <stevebest@usadatanet.net> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:07:06 -0400   Could not copy the message to the digest, there was no plain text part
(back) Subject: Langlais' Four Postludes From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:37:39 -0400   Boy, this list has been dead lately. Is everyone on vacation or what?   I've been playing Langlais' "Four Postludes" recently. I think my = battered copy is the first Langlais I ever owned; I have most of his organ works by now, though not quite all. My question to the list is, what are your opinions of the four? I like the first and the third. The second has its moments, but I think is boring in the chromatic sections. The fourth I = have yet to learn, so have yet to form an opinion on it. It looks a lot harder than the other three. I think the third, especially in its opening measures, is quite thrilling.     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu        
(back) Subject: Re: Langlais' Four Postludes From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:42:47 -0400   On 8/18/04 7:37 PM, "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> wrote:   > Boy, this list has been dead lately. Is everyone on vacation or what? > > I've been playing Langlais' "Four Postludes" recently. I think my = battered > copy is the first Langlais I ever owned; I have most of his organ works = by > now, though not quite all. My question to the list is, what are your > opinions of the four? I like the first and the third. The second has = its > moments, but I think is boring in the chromatic sections. The fourth I = have > yet to learn, so have yet to form an opinion on it. It looks a lot = harder > than the other three. I think the third, especially in its opening > measures, is quite thrilling. > > > Randy Runyon > Music Director > Zion Lutheran Church > Hamilton, Ohio > runyonr@muohio.edu > > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >    
(back) Subject: Re: Langlais' Four Postludes From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:07:21 -0400   Was there supposed to be a message in this someplace, Alan?   RR   on 8/18/04 7:42 PM, Alan Freed at acfreed0904@earthlink.net wrote:      
(back) Subject: Allen organs From: "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip1@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 18:15:20 -0700 (PDT)   I have always fancied myself an Allen person. Their custom model at St. = Andrew's Presbyterian in Houston was quite a joy to play and did not sound = as electronic as others. I played a dedication recital for a church that = bought a new Renaissance instrument and was struck then by how electronic = it sounded. Went to a dedication recital for a big four-manual instrument = that incorporated the existing pipe organ. I was absolutely floored by = how electronic it all sounded. Perhaps it is the "high-pitched" sound = mentioned in the initial post on this subject. I am now looking at the other major player in town and am impressed with = whatever they have done to mitigate that particular kind of sound. Our = church will be looking at a new organ sooner than anticipated, and I = rather like what I hear with the new instruments. As always I will much = prefer a pipe organ. However, with money being the significant barrier it = is at our church, I would rather have a wide palette of reasonably = authentic-sounding choices over an "affordable" instrument of fifteen to = twenty ranks. Fire when ready! Richard Hazelip  
(back) Subject: Re: Charlie From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:18:09 -0700   glad to hear you are still with us....   we was worried for you   -j   Keys4bach@aol.com wrote:   > Hi All, > > punta gorda and port charlotte are still standing sortof...... > > got my power back yesterday and internet today. > > church lost its wall but did not lose my toaster......... > > 48000 jobs gone for now in the county. > > no raise this year i suppose. > > thanks for your prayers and concerns. > > dale in florida      
(back) Subject: Re: Allen organs From: <AEolianSkinner@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:55:41 EDT   Hey Everyone, I have found that Allen is a great instrument to play excpet when it = is installed right. I had the oppourtunity to play a four manual Allen that =   couldn't be more than two or three years old at Gloria Dei in Clear Lake. = It sounded very electronic. Which is very surprising because the Allen Renaissance series should be Allen's premiere series. And when it is = four manual, it should be filled with excellent sound. Unfortunately, it didn't and = really disappointed me. Then my church got rebuilt and a new two manual Allen = got installed and it sounded better than the four manual I played at Gloria = Dei. So I don't know what the deal is with Allen. But I still enjoy their instruments. I got to play a three manual Rodgers pipe/digital = combination at a Presbyterian Church in Houston. It had about 12 ranks to the great and = it sounded very marvelous. The blend was excellent. I was really surprised. I = guess I wasn't expecting the sound to be that good. The only bad part about = the installation was that the organ had a selector switch that allowed the = digital portion to echo more or less depending on what selectioin you had. So = when ever you stoped playing, the digital would echo but the pipes would not = and half the sound would drop because of the volume of the pipes. But = overall, it was a excelent installation. I guess it all depends on your personal = view on organs and the builders. Best Regards, Gregory Hinson  
(back) Subject: Re:Networked Organ Systems (X-Posted) From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 00:02:32 EDT   Devon brought up a few interesting points about the Epiphany organs that Marshall-Ogeltree is building. >1. It's eventually possible, as more of these organs are sold, to = perform on >every M&O organ in the world simultaneously, with little extra effort, >provided stop and piston codes are uniform.   Each organ they build is unique, so no stop list would be the same. = Trinity Wall Street has a complete main and antiphonal organ, but the next organ done might be a smaller instrument with no antiphonal, and the next organ = might be a pipe organ augmented with some Epiphany stops. I guess technically = you could play every Epiphany organ at one time, but why would you? It would = be all playing off of a few pistons, since each one would have radically different piston configurations and stop configurations. >2. Like "Big Brother", what's being played could be monitored by the >builders, sort of like what's done at computers where you are employed. From talking to Doug Marshall and David Ogletree, MY understanding is = that the monitoring of the computers is that they can keep tabs on the hard = drives, and back up information for things like piston memories, update software, =   change samples, diagnose and fix any software problems, etc. >3. The builders could supply Preludes, Offertories, Postludes, etc. via >phone, making the organist obsolete. Any bloke from the congregation = could push >the Prelude button, and so on, to complete a service without a live organist. How is this any different from a sequencer that Allen or Rodgers or any other company puts out? Someone still would need to record the music = into the system. I think that a live musician always needs to be present because = there is usually a glitch...a verse needs to be cut, the congregation is = dragging the tempo, the pastor changes a hymn, etc. Those kind of things = necessitate a person being on the bench playing live music. >In the included flyer, it is stated that the noises of wind leaks, >reservoirs, tremulants, and swell shades are included. WHY??? I can't = say I heard any >of that in the recording, and it seems a waste of resources and expense.   Listen through headphones...those things will be evident. Why not = include them. They are noises that are present in a pipe organ. They give the = pipe organ life. Why do digital companies take the unique extraneous noises = out? I think that on the Trinity Wall Street CD the pneumatic noises on the = Harp in the Sowerby make the organ sound all the more authentic. The noises = of the swell shades give some added character. Why do the "big" digital = companies feel the need to "sterilze" the sound...what pipe organ has just pure = sound? There are always noises from the chambers, so if a company is trying to replicate a pipe organ, why not do it authentically. Johannus used to = (and still might) have a tracker noise on their MIDI box for precisely the same = reason. It has always amazed me at how digital voicers would voice an organ and = take the wind noise out of every rank. The pure organ sound gets tiresome to = my ears. >As for the sound, and this is my own opinion only, it mostly sounded = like any >well-voiced Allen Renaissance organ I've ever heard. I think that from listening to the CD, the ensemble is better than any digital I've ever heard or played, but due to the nuances that the blower = noise, shade noise, pitman noises, etc. provide, it gives an added depth of = realism that other companies have yet to duplicate. The stereo imaged sampling = that Rodgers does gives a good chorus ensemble, too, but so many other = companies do everything in monaural, which ends up giving a rather flat sound, and as = we all know, there is no pipe organ in creation that is ever purely in tune--there are always some tuning fluctuations that give some warmth to = the ensemble. Several list members have heard the Trinity Wall Street organ first hand = and I am planning on going to see it at the end of the month or first part of =   Sept., so when I come back, I will give a full report. Having talked to = people who have played it and heard it in person, everyone raves about the = organ, including some pipe organ builders! Monty Bennett      
(back) Subject: FELIX HELL AT BOSTON SYMPHONY HALL From: <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:53:47 +0200   Dear Listmembers and friends,   this is to announce that, under the patronage of the new Music Director of the Boston Symphony Orchestra, Maestro James Levine, the newly refurbished Aeolian Skinner Organ of Boston Symphony Hall will be celebrated on   November 7, 2004,   with an "Symphony Hall Open House", demonstrations of the organ and performances.   In the regard we are glad and proud to report that Maestro Levine has asked Felix Hell, to be avilable for this important day as featured concert organist.   Felix gladly accepted and will perform two concerts:   1) A solo recital at 12:30 pm. Duration: 60 minutes. Program to be announced later.   2) In the evening at 6 pm Felix will perform, together with the "NEC Philharmonia", i.e. the orchestra of the New England Conservatory, Alexandre Guilmant's Symphony No. 1 d minor. Conductor: Jens Georg Bachmann, Germany.   Mr. Bachmann helds the position of one of two Assistant Conductors of the BSO from the upcoming season on. He has worked with Maestro Levine as Assistant Conductor of the Munich Philaharmonic and the UBS Verbier Festival Orchestra. Now serving as principal guest conductor of the Texas Chamber Orchestra, he has led the Berlin Symphony and worked with opera houses in eight German cities.   Hans-Friedrich Hell