PipeChat Digest #4706 - Friday, August 20, 2004
 
O & O O update
  by "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr>
Re: USA Nat'l Anthem at Olympics
  by "Richard Huggins" <huggins88@yahoo.com>
Steve Best is truly THE BEST
  by "v hatch" <vhatch@hotmail.com>
RE: USA Nat'l Anthem at Olympics
  by "Milo R. Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net>
RE: salaries and jobs
  by "v hatch" <vhatch@hotmail.com>
RE: Big 4-Manual "project" on E-bay
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
Re: Charlotte County FL
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: toe levers - tiraripieno (tiratutti?)
  by "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br>
Re: toe levers - tiraripieno (tiratutti?)
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
two diapasons in England
  by "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br>
Re: USA Nat'l Anthem at Olympics
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Olympic SSB
  by "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net>
 

(back) Subject: O & O O update From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 22:45:08 +0300   This week we have added two works recorded by Scott Montgomery at the = Taylor and Boody organ of Christ Church Cathedral in Indanapolis, Indiana, the Chorale Prelude "Allein Gott in der Hoh Sei Her" - BWV 663, J.S. Bach. and the Chorale Prelude "Der Tag der ist so freudenreich" - BuxWV 182, = Dietrich Buxtehude. I am off from Mount Olympus to Melbourne in the morning - a 40 hour = journey. Every time I turn on my TV I see yet another Australian winning a gold medal - but we did a good job of the opening! When I was a boy you could = buy a house for the cost of a plane ticket from London to Sydney. I am leaving Organs and Organists Online in the capable hands of Timothy Grenz for three weeks, though I believe that the computer has reached Australia along with the rabbits. John Foss on Mount Olympus in consultation with Hermes and Zeus http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/      
(back) Subject: Re: USA Nat'l Anthem at Olympics From: "Richard Huggins" <huggins88@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:59:53 -0500   Sorry, but I agree with the nay side of opinions about this arrangement. = The entrance of the strings is somewhat refreshing, and if they'd left the writing for that same strength for all the strings part it might be tolerable until the brass return, but they reduced the strings to wimpy, loosey-goosey partwriting on the "rockets red glare" part...I mean, HELLO???? (I suppose I could be imagining this, but if you think there wasn't a hidden message in there, I beg to disagree.)   This was an idea whose time had not come, and which needed a producer to = nix it.   If it WERE available for organ, what would be the point? It's already possible to do something like that, if that's the effect you want, through mere registration and style of playing. Absent any interesting and hard-to-figure-out harmony ideas (there are none), I don't really see what good an arrangement of it would do.   Respectfully, my two cents!   --Richard   > Subject: USA Nat'l Anthem at Olympics > From: "Patricia/Thomas Gregory" <tgregory@speeddial.net>   > My wife and I have found the new arrangement of the National Anthem to = be > very refreshing; a breath of fresh air from the militaristic settings we > have heard in the past. > > This "less aggressive" setting speaks well for our nation and those of = us > who are deeply troubled by the goals and objectives of the present > administration. > > Does anyone know who made this arrangement and if it might be available = in a > keyboard setting? > > Sincerely, > > Thomas Gregory    
(back) Subject: Steve Best is truly THE BEST From: "v hatch" <vhatch@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:12:41 -0500   STEVE WROTE ME WHEN I EMAILED HIM PRIVATELY AND ANSWERED A TECHNICAL INTERNET -TYPE QUESTION IN SUCH A KIND AND CHEERING WAY. HE DESERVES = PUBLIC ADULATION--and that is what I intend this to be. THANK YOU STEVE!!   >From: Administrator <admin@pipechat.org> >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: Re: Real versus Digital! >Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:26:50 -0500 > >>Oh no! I hope we're not restartnig this "no win" debate for the >>unpteenth time! >> >>Steve Best in Utica, NY > >As Steve has pointed out this is a NO WIN debate so unless someone has >something "really" new to add, which I really doubt is the case, let us >drop this topic and move on to other topics that aren't so contentious. > >David >-- >**************************************** >David Scribner >Owner / Co-Administrator >PipeChat > >http://www.pipechat.org >mailto:admin@pipechat.org > >****************************************************************** >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> >List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >   _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! =   http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/    
(back) Subject: RE: USA Nat'l Anthem at Olympics From: "Milo R. Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:24:50 -0400   Actually I found the National Anthem quite refreshing at the Winter = Olympics 2002 Opening Ceremonies. That rendition was just absolutely amazing and = it was partly ran with strings but the brass came in at the right time with = the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing, it made you proud to be an American   Just my two cents worth.   Milo   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Patricia/Thomas Gregory Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 12:29 PM To: Pipechat Subject: USA Nat'l Anthem at Olympics     Greetings:   My wife and I have found the new arrangement of the National Anthem to be very refreshing; a breath of fresh air from the militaristic settings we have heard in the past.   This "less aggressive" setting speaks well for our nation and those of us who are deeply troubled by the goals and objectives of the present administration.   Does anyone know who made this arrangement and if it might be available in = a keyboard setting?   Sincerely,   Thomas Gregory   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>      
(back) Subject: RE: salaries and jobs From: "v hatch" <vhatch@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:11:25 -0500   I believe there must be an EXTREME HALO EFFECT when congregations consider =   how much they should pay a minister--a priest--a rector. WHY CAN'T WE = cash in on that? All this talk about "not being in it for the money--how = about the ministers??? AND ALSO: If only because it might be later = seen as a HISTORIC EVENT, could we please get some discussion going about JUST WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE if we DID unionize. 1: First of all, is it even doable? I mean not from the standpoint of "would organists = cooperate--would they PARTICIPATE? but what would transpire? How would it work? 2: Has = any other group which is seemingly as dispersed as us ever unionized? What if = we just joined the musicisian' s union. 3: Are there some states where you =   cannot, by law, form a union? 4: What would be the STEPS that we would take? We could discuss this without taking sides as to whether it would = be a good or bad thing, but just to familiarize ourselves with how unions DO develop and get established. 4: Are things slowly moving toward = uniization in general or away from it? And , 5: what other questions would have to =   be anwered to get started on such a project?   >From: Liquescent <quilisma@cox.net> >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: salaries and jobs >Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:56:33 -0700 > >I point to the San Diego listings because I know the churches and what's >ACTUALLY involved in doing the jobs ... FAR more work than they're PAYING =   >for. > >Time and again I have taken low-paying jobs because of the liturgy >(primarily) or because the place had a good choir and organ. For most of = my >career, I worked a "day job" to make ends meet. > >Why should a professional organist/choirmaster have to do that? Clergy = (for >the most part) don't, and I worked at LEAST as hard as the clergy in ALL = my >posts. > >Or why should the organist be paid $35K in a parish where the median = income >is well in excess of $100K (including the rector's salary)? > >I was often criticized for not "dressing up" at St. Matthew's (I usually >wore a cassock around the place to hide my threadbare clothes), and for >driving an old beater of a car. My response? "If you want me to live a >Newport Beach LIFESTYLE and project a Newport Beach IMAGE, then you need = to >pay me a Newport Beach SALARY. I'm supporting a family of four on an = annual >salary of $35K; I doubt if ANYBODY in the CONGREGATION has to do THAT." = And >I WAS "full-time" ... I had to be available for meetings, weddings, and >funerals (and other services) during the day, so I COULDN'T take a "day >job." > >I stayed because of the liturgy and the choir, until the rector became >absolutely intolerable and the situation started to affect my health. So = I >retired. > >Cheers, > >Bud > > > >****************************************************************** >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> >List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >   _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee=AE Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3D3963    
(back) Subject: RE: Big 4-Manual "project" on E-bay From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:53:05 -0500   Some of you will have seen the following further interesting info about this instrument (instruments, actually, but read on -- !) which was posted =   to Piporg-L. My thanks to the original author (not a PC subscriber) for permission to share with y'all here! Hope you enjoy a bit of "the rest of =   the story"!! ;-)   --Tim   --------------------------forwarded message text follows-------------------------   The Westminster Presbyterian Church in Albany provides us with a very unusual story for those who love Skinner organs. The organ was removed in 1975 because they could not afford to fix it and replaced with a Allen computer organ. That story is below.   The monstosity on Ebay was the trouble prone early MOS 1 organ that was installed in Westminster Pres in Albany. It was in a constant state of distress in its last 10 years of = installation. It was removed when they were able to get their former Skinner back and = had it rebuilt by Austin.   The Allen was sold for $1500 to Bubar as the church considered it more of = a liability than an asset as it did not sound well and required so many repairs that it was not serving them well. In the last 5 years of its use = it was decided not to try to fix the expensive troubles so whole sections did not work.   All in all it was the wrong organ at the wrong time and was one of the = best sales tools the competing organ companies in thye area had.   Bubar sold it to someone in Georgia about 18 months ago and now he is attempting to find another sucker.   Below is the church's description of the replacement of the Allen. But of course the real story is between the lines and will never be reduced to print.   - - - - - - - - - - From the Westminster Pres Website - - - - - - - - - - -From 1928 until 1976, the chancel of Westminster Presbyterian Church was the home of a pipe organ built by Ernest M. Skinner, who is generally recognized as the greatest organ builder America ever produced. Today, organs built by E. M. Skinner are highly prized for the grandeur and = beauty of their tone, as well as for their historical significance and = consistently increasing value.   After nearly 50 years of faithful service, Westminsters' 42-rank Skinner Opus 780 pipe organ fell into disrepair. In 1975, a committee was formed = to research the feasibility of restoring the instrument. After much deliberation, it was decided at the time that the cost of restoring the organ was prohibitive. As a result, the Skinner was replaced by an electronic organ.   Now, 25 years later, the electronic instrument has reached the end of its useful life. While the demise of an organ can be an unsettling concern = for a church, in Westminster case it has provided a remarkable and probably unique opportunity in the history of American organ building.   When the electronic organ was installed in Westminster Presbyterian = Church, the Skinner was carefully removed and reassembled in the home of church members Dr. and Mrs. Thomas Older, where it has remained lovingly = preserved and virtually intact for the last quarter century. As a testament to their care of the instrument and the extent of their generosity, the Skinner was recently appraised at $600,000.   After recent extensive committee research into the short and long term = costs and benefits of organ replacement options, the Olders offered to donate = the historic Skinner organ back to Westminster where it would once again make music in the space for which it was designed. The Session and Board of Trustees of Westminster Presbyterian Church unanimously accepted the = Olders' generous gift, and engaged the renowned Hartford, Connecticut, firm of Austin Organs, Inc. to rebuild and reinstall the Skinner Opus 780 in its original chancel location.   The process of rebuilding and reinstalling the Skinner is a lengthy and costly one. It involves the removal of the organ from its present = location in the Olders' home, transporting it to the Austin factory in Hartford for complete mechanical refurbishment, and, finally, reinstallation of the = organ in the church.   Several features of this process are noteworthy:   First, the uniquely characteristic sound of the Skinner will be preserved. No significant tonal changes will be made to the original instrument, = though a few stops will be added in the Skinner style, two of them reversing changes which had been made to the organ in the 1950's and 1960's.   Second, the organ's cumbersome electro-pneumatic switching system, which = had grown unreliable in the 1970's and prompted the organ's removal at the = time, will be replaced with a state-of-the-art multiplex system, ensuring long life, reliability, and serviceability.   Third, a new antiphonal division of 10 ranks of pipes will be added. This new section of the organ, completely distinct and separate from the = Skinner pipework in the chancel, will be mounted on the rail of the rear gallery = to help support and encourage congregational singing at worship services.   The entire project is scheduled to be completed by June of 2002. The = total contract price with Austin Organs, Inc. is $484,835. It is the goal and intent of the church Session that roughly half of this amount, $250,000, will be raised from donations, grants, and pledges, with the remainder coming from the church's endowment.   When completed, the rebuilt and reinstalled Skinner pipe organ will have a replacement value of nearly $800,000, making the cost of restoring this historic instrument a highly desirable investment in financial terms. More than this, however, the rebuilding of the Skinner Opus 780 represents the recovery of a significant piece of the musical, cultural, and = ecclesiastical history of Westminster Presbyterian Church and of the Capital Region. It reaffirms the value of music in the life of our church and community, and preserves an important part of the past while helping to define the = future. Thanks to this project, and the generosity of all who contribute, generations to come will hear, enjoy, and be inspired by the glorious = sounds of a great instrument in Westminster Church.    
(back) Subject: Re: Charlotte County FL From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:33:25 EDT   In a message dated 8/20/2004 2:49:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, 71431.2534@compuserve.com writes:   > There are no pipe organs in Charlotte County, Florida. >   r u sure?   also some GREAT ones in Sarasota county......   dale in Charlotte county Florida such as it is with over 50% of the homes moderately to severely damaged......  
(back) Subject: Re: toe levers - tiraripieno (tiratutti?) From: "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 22:14:58 -0300   John Speller wrote:   > The idea of having two diapasons, however, goes back at least to the > late sixteenth century, and dates from when most   In the Andersen's book, there are a beautiful photo of King's College organ, Cambridge where one can see it. There are, in the INternet, some little photos of this organ.   http://www.kings.cam.ac.uk/chapel/shop/catalogue/pages/1018.html http://www.kings.cam.ac.uk/chapel/shop/catalogue/pages/1022.html http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Kings_College_Chapel.html (this is a good photo. Click for to enlarge).   Domitila            
(back) Subject: Re: toe levers - tiraripieno (tiratutti?) From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 18:57:29 -0700   I thought I read somewhere that it originated with early organs on the rood screen (Winchester was cited as the example?) ... an Open Diapason on the nave side of the case, and a second (smaller?) one on the quire side of the case.   Cheers,   Bud   Domitila Ballesteros wrote: > John Speller wrote: > > > The idea of having two diapasons, however, goes back at least to the > > late sixteenth century, and dates from when most > > In the Andersen's book, there are a beautiful photo of King's College > organ, Cambridge where one can see it. There are, in the INternet, some > little photos of this organ. > > http://www.kings.cam.ac.uk/chapel/shop/catalogue/pages/1018.html > http://www.kings.cam.ac.uk/chapel/shop/catalogue/pages/1022.html > http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Kings_College_Chapel.html (this > is a good photo. Click for to enlarge). > > Domitila > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: two diapasons in England From: "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:22:24 -0300   Andersen says, when he writes about the location of organ:   "In England, the organs at that time were smaller - small enough to be=20 placed on the rood-screen which separated the choir and nave (for=20 instance, King's College). This location may be something of a surprise=20 to the Continent (excepting France), but as the purpose of the screen=20 was to separate the choir and the nave, the reinforcement ofthis=20 separation by an organ was not considered extraordinary. From an=20 acoustical point of view, this position was perfect, and of course there=20 was a double front , toward the choir and the nave respectively. The=20 older choir organs were not always demolished and removed when a=20 rood-screen organ was built. From Durham, for instance, there are=20 records of three orgnas, the largest of which was mounted on the screen.=20 This distinguished instrument with wooden pipes and rich ornaments was=20 opened and used only on festival days. The second one was placed on the=20 north side of the choir and was played when the four Fathers of the=20 Church were read (augustine, Ambrose, Gregory and Hieronymous)." (p. 297-8)   and when Andersen writes about the England organs: "The presence of the two 8' Principals in the Great organ was explained=20 by the fact that the organ was mounted on the gallery (creen) between=20 the choir and the nave (as at Kong's College). Due to this circumstance,=20 the Great organ case opened on both sides, thus requiring two sets of=20 fa=E7ada pipes. This type of situation may be the origin of the later=20 English custom of doubling the Principals from bass to treble. Probably,=20 there is NO CONNECTION with the trable doubling found in the North=20 European organs from the Late Gothic period." (italics mine) p. 171-2.   Domitila   Liquescent wrote:   > I thought I read somewhere that it originated with early organs on the=20 > rood screen (Winchester was cited as the example?) ... an Open=20 > Diapason on the nave side of the case, and a second (smaller?) one on=20 > the quire side of the case. > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >       >  
(back) Subject: Re: USA Nat'l Anthem at Olympics From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:52:08 -0600   Hello, Patricia/Thomas Gregory:   > My wife and I have found the new arrangement of the National Anthem > to be very refreshing; a breath of fresh air from the militaristic settings we > have heard in the past.   We ran one famous conductor into remission in Boston many years ago for trying to "fool around with the National Anthem."   I think you are right, . . . a refreshing breath of fresh air in style is possibly a good thing.   BUT, our National Anthem represents us; who we are, and what we stand for.   > This "less aggressive" setting speaks well for our nation and > those of us who are deeply troubled by the goals and objectives > of the present administration.   Then, you need not bother with going to the Olympics to compete with the best athletes in the world for the top prizes. This is very hard, difficult work and requires the most aggressive efforts from our athletes.   Should our athletes compete on the basis of this representative musical setting of the National Anthem, few of them would come home with the Gold Medals. Too weak. Too wimpy.   Please. . . . Let's go for the Gold, and let the rest of the world know by musical example what that means to us.   Now, let's get back to discussing pipe organs. This is becoming VERY political.   F. Richard Burt     ..      
(back) Subject: Olympic SSB From: "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:59:00 -0700   I'll add my vote to the positive column of the arrangement. I find it a nice change. Considering it was a "bar room tune" that dear Mr FSK set the text to, how it should be performed is certainly up for grabs.   Don't forget the myriad of solo renditions the public has heard at sports events in the USA. To put it in a context organists might identify, think of the many ways "What Wondrous Love" is presented. It an be very plaintive and slow, but I remember hearing a recording of singers from Appalachia singing it in a vigorous manner.   I can understand the opening text of the SSB being presented in a "hushed" manner that represents an awe that is not militaristic.