PipeChat Digest #4709 - Sunday, August 22, 2004
 
AEolian Skinner Opus Archive
  by <AEolianSkinner@aol.com>
Erradicating illigitamate music from library
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Legitimate RC service music
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Legitimate RC service music
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
DIANE is back in Boston
  by <PMMGBOB@aol.com>
No sweet guys...i mean ligitamate ORGAN voluntaries
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: No sweet guys...i mean ligitamate ORGAN voluntaries
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: No sweet guys...i moan liggitamute ORGAN volinturies
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Erradicating illigitamate music from library
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: No sweet guys...i moan liggitamute ORGAN volinturies
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
[LONG] Joyce in Jackson, Part 1 of 2
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Clarification for Mr. Runyon...and others on nice organ vols for church.
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Good organ voluntaries to library
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: No sweet guys...i moan liggitamute ORGAN volinturies
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Clarification for Mr. Runyon...and others on nice organ vols	for chur
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: No sweet guys...i moan liggitamute ORGAN volinturies
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
old music
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Pipe/digital combinations
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
Re: Pipe/digital combinations
  by "John Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
 

(back) Subject: AEolian Skinner Opus Archive From: <AEolianSkinner@aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 09:20:53 EDT   _Click here: Aeolian-Skinner Archives_ (http://home.cfl.rr.com/aeolianskinner/)  
(back) Subject: Erradicating illigitamate music from library From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 07:59:32 -0700 (PDT)   Today, between masses, I took the liberty to erradicate a pile of = illigitamate music from my library. I think I have grown a bit, and the = music really was taking up space that would be (and WILL be) home for = better selections of service music. But, thats just the thing: locating = more service music thats a lot more musical that the music I tossed out. I = have been able to do so at our very large library in downtown Chicago, = from their collections of organ music, one being LC classified, the other = being Dewey. The Dewey collection has things like the old William Carl = Organum Ecclisea (or Ecclesea Organum...correct spelling is welcomed) and = music of Edward Lamaigre. With this much needed trashing, offer other titles that are good service = music! I welcome it open-heartedly.     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Legitimate RC service music From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 10:11:02 -0700   Desiree, if you mean legitimate choral music for the RC service, I wouldn't invest a lot of money in new titles right now.   "Authenticam Liturgiam" with its DREADFUL new "bad school-boy" English translation of the Latin is on the horizon. Nobody seems to know exactly when the new translation will become obligatory in English-speaking countries, but it will include a new translation of the Scriptures AND of the Ordinary and Proper of the Mass.   About the ONLY thing good that can be said of it is that it restores the missing phrases of the Gloria in excelsis, and puts them back in Latin word-order, so it will once again be possible to adapt the text of the Gloria to existing Latin and English settings, something that WASN'T possible (by design?) with the ICEL paraphrase of the Gloria.   Depending on who is elected pope next, there may also be a decree for a wholesale return to LATIN, which at this point would be a whole new ball-game ... most churches discarded their Latin music libraries YEARS ago, and the vast majority of stuff is out of print.   In any case, we'll probably see a re-shuffling of Catholic publishers .... J. Fischer and McLaughlin & Reilly went bankrupt on account of the change to English, due to their huge stock of Latin music; World Library of Sacred Music invested heavily in the FIRST English translation, and went bankrupt when the SECOND English translation left them with a stock room full of useless music (some quite good).   I don't compose or arrange for the RC service for that very reason ... I have no idea what translation to set, as the new Lectionary and Sacramentary haven't been released yet ... just a draft of the Ordinary.   Cheers,   Bud          
(back) Subject: Re: Legitimate RC service music From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:34:22 EDT   Bud: RC music is in such a state right now that I doubt we'll ever recover from it. If I hear any more of that Haugen rubbish I will scream so loud you'll hear me in SD. Ron  
(back) Subject: DIANE is back in Boston From: <PMMGBOB@aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 14:48:55 EDT   According to the TV guide Diane is back in Boston on channel 23, I am not =   authorized to watch this station, but this is at least a positive step for = the organ! E. Lucas  
(back) Subject: No sweet guys...i mean ligitamate ORGAN voluntaries From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 12:54:13 -0700 (PDT)     No guys...I mean I tossed out a buncha organ music books that I had from = when i started playing at 17 years old, when my playing was very basic, an = dI had not taken an undergrad theory course sequence. After analyzing some = of the music, i noticed, that the pieces were all the same style, and Im = just getting tired of playing that composers stuff. Im finding way better = service music and doing other things. Im actually more prone to sit down = and learn more practical Bach movements, etc. There are some collections = of service music that are out today, some are rather abstrat sounding. = Thats what i mean about the old William Carl collections, as well as = Harold Rowe Shelley's book for 32 pieces for Preludes, offs, and = postludes...the volume One i think, with original compositions by various = composers.         From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
(back) Subject: Re: No sweet guys...i mean ligitamate ORGAN voluntaries From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 16:02:47 -0400   on 8/22/04 3:54 PM, T.Desiree' Hines at nicemusica@yahoo.com wrote:   There are some collections of service music that are out today, some are rather abstrat sounding. Thats what i mean about the old William Carl collections, as well as Harold Rowe Shelley's book for 32 pieces for Preludes, offs, and postludes...the volume One i think, with original compositions by various composers.   Well, do you mean that you are throwing out the Carl and Shclley or that your are adopting them? And what do you mean by "abstra[c]t sounding"? = Is that good or bad?     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: Re: No sweet guys...i moan liggitamute ORGAN volinturies From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 16:11:06 EDT   I assume that you threw out all of this music that was not to your taste AFTER offering it to music schools, secondary schools, poor churches with = no music libraries, organ students, and colleagues?  
(back) Subject: Re: Erradicating illigitamate music from library From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:22:02 -0500   T.Desiree' Hines wrote about:   > locating more service music thats a lot more musical that the music I > tossed out.   to which I would suggest that the real problem is deciding what "more musical" means. In every period there are practioners of the composers art who range from exeptionally poor, to exceptionally skillful, and in every subsequent period the opinion of who was a skillful and who was a poor composer in that period is subject to revision. There is also the problem that music written for one preference of musical style may or may not sound well on instruments composed to showcase music written with another style in mind.   That said, I discovered the other day, that one can access the scores to more than 600 organ compositions through the Music Memory Project of the Library of congress, right in the comfort of one's own computer desk. I won't speak to the musicality of these items, but I noted a few items by John Knowles Paine, there, and I noted some music suitable for weddings ("Bridal Marches"), so it might be worth checking out.   As to the question of what belongs in an organist's library, well there are a lot of instruments out there on which one can do play romantic era literature, so I would start with that: Brahms, Merkel, Ouseley, &c. William Carl might be serviceable material, but some of this is still subject to copyright. Without too much difficulty, one can probably find a used bookstore with a stack of old Amsco (now Music Sales) "Evderybody's Favorite" music books to be had at very nominal prices (I picked up a dozen or so different volumes, offered the owner three dollars instead of the dollar a piece on the cover, and wound up actually paying $5.00).   One has to know the musical tastes of the congregation one serves. If the parishioners are more apt to be in a neighborhood bar, listening to polkas on the Juke box on Saturday night, they are unlikely to be willing to endure much Bach on Sunday morning. ON the other hand, if the parishioners were more likely to be at the symphony concert, or at a Master's degree recital by an oboe student at the nearest conservatory, they're probably going to expect a Bach on a regular basis.   ns  
(back) Subject: Re: No sweet guys...i moan liggitamute ORGAN volinturies From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:21:59 -0700 (PDT)   No...as a matter of fact...the music had been sitting on my shelf for some = time and had not been played, as I do more things nowadays like the Reger = 30 Short Chorales. I offerd none of this music to anyone. And we all have = our share of things we have to start off with...only Wunderkinds start off = with the Bach D major/532. And one simply asks for a cordial commenting upon things to replace it = with.     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
(back) Subject: [LONG] Joyce in Jackson, Part 1 of 2 From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:30:31 -0500   Joyce in Jackson Part 1 of 2     It is said that women have no sense of direction, particularly in terms of compass points (i.e., never tell a woman to 'turn north' - trust me on this). I believe this talent, if it is one, is acquired, and there is a secret handshake among all the male former eagle scouts and a compass embedded just under the skin to assist all males in unerringly making the female look foolish in that regard.   However, the scouts have foundered in their duties with the last couple of generations, for just the other day during Tropical Storm Bonnie while I was gassing up, a man at the pumps accosted me. "Excuse me, miss, are you from here?" When I nodded assent, he asked, "I know it's a strange question, but which way is south?" Boy, did that feel good - not only did I know where south was, but here was a man who didn't.   That having been said, I have acquired vestiges of this skill, functioning in a man's world and having traveled alone without navigator at my side through various overblown villages of the South and elsewhere. Most towns (here we euphemistically call them "cities", just as we call large puddles "ponds" and "lakes") have a downtown area that's laid out on a grid. And I've learned to study a map and get a lie of the land and try to remember the names of the main drags. My sense of direction is still easily compromised.   On this trip I was hampered by lack of detailed resources to study. Jackson, Mississippi, no matter what others may tell you, is just not big or important enough for AAA to provide detailed city maps in its tour books or road maps. I studied what I could online, and for the rest I was at the mercy of my husband Rick, who I nagged to come along after the adventures of my last solo trip.   We made it to Jackson in five and one-half hours, including a short detour in Pensacola in a last-ditch effort to procure a map from AAA. The trip was wet but uneventful: I-10 to Mobile, then a short stint up I-65 to Highway 98, which after a while turned into a two-lane road until we reached the Mississippi line, at which time mercifully it returned to four lanes. Then we jogged onto I-59 for a few minutes until we skirted Hattiesburg and found Highway 49, which took us to I-20, I-55, and eventually High Street.   I had tried to get reservations at the Crown Plaza downtown, but it had changed hands and was now a Marriott with no available suites. Not knowing the terrain, I had to guess at what was nearby with suite capability, my goal being a comfortable couch or club chair for Rick's back.   Why would anyone purposefully, willfully travel to Mississippi? What few people I knew who originated from here had run away screaming. I knew a few attorneys who went to law school here because they couldn't get in Florida schools, and Mississippi's admission standards were lower. As the miles clicked along, I kept wondering what Faulkner saw in this place. At least there weren't many traffic cops, but I found out why later.   We were there to attend the dedication recital of the new Quimby installation at First Baptist Church, touted as the largest organ in the state of Mississippi. List member Sand Lawn of Monroe, Louisiana, and a cute young organist named Nathan from Sand's stomping grounds, met us at our hotel before the recital, and we sallied forth into the unknown to seek nourishment in the form of dead cow and fish. We found this little bistro called "Que sera sera", I kid you not. Rick and I chowed down on charred ribeyes while Sand reeled in a salmon and Nathan chose an oyster poboy. No alcohol was imbibed - I was the designated driver (you can probably sense some foreshadowing, but it's all anticlimactic, I assure you). Besides, this was a Baptist church, and one can only drink behind the barn. I couldn't find a barn near the church, which took up two city blocks and had its own escalator. I kept thinking, "Where do the deacons go to smoke between Sunday School and church service?"   We made it to the church, and the floor level was already full, so we made it halfway up the rising pews to find a seat. My guess was that this room did not seat as many as Peachtree Methodist in Atlanta, but it had to be fairly close - maybe 2,000 (but then again, we have discussed my counting abilities). The pictures do not do the room justice. I thought we were going to walk into a huge auditorium, but for its squarish dimensions the room did look like a church, and was very tastefully decorated. A huge stained glass scene dominated the front baptistry (I was raised to believe the Baptists drop the 'e', but am not sure my spell-checker will leave the word alone), and the organ pipes flanked either side of it. The facades were flamed copper, but the lighting did not allow them to gleam in all their glory. Instead of a back gallery, there was a theater-styled gentle upward sloping of the floor to the back. An antiphonal existed, but all that was really seen of it were the horizontal en chamades that we thought would surely part our rain-matted hair near the end of the performance.   The program stated that the current organ consists of 155 ranks of pipes on 5 manuals. Sixteen of the original E.M. Skinner ranks from the original 1939 organ were retained, as well as nine ranks from the 1972 Moller rebuild. Sixty-three Casavant ranks acquired by the church from a 1929 organ from the Concert Hall of the Royal York Hotel, Toronto, were also utilized. The stoplist can be found online at http://www.quimbypipeorgans.com/1bptsjackson.htm.   Joyce Jones had been hired to do the honors, but first the Baptists had to have their fun. Hence their huge sanctuary choir, decked out in black, red and gold. When the lights came up on them, I wished for my dark sunglasses - the sequins were dazzlingly blinding, or maybe it was blindingly dazzling. If the red had been a little darker, the Florida State University marching band could have borrowed the outfits for concert season (I can't remember - what is Ole Miss' school colors?).   That is where the dazzling ended, however. Whereas the Peachtree Methodist Mander in Atlanta was overwhelmed by the Atlanta Symphony and the huge composite choir at its dedication, the Jackson Quimby was the only thing of note in the choir selections. The obligatory Baptist piano accompaniment was all but drowned out, and the choir's Hallelujah from Beethoven's "Mount of Olives" was superbly underwhelming. Their next two selections were similarly undersung for a huge loft full of voices. Their second piece, "The Majesty and Glory of Your Name" by Johnson/Fettke, was a pretty piece in spite of the choir's losing the battle of trying to fill up the space with sound. There was plenty of praying, which I was sure was appreciated by Quimby, who was in attendance with members of his staff.   (I threw in the comment about praying so that I could share an anecdote from my high school days. Although I was Baptist, most of my friends were First Methodisters. I remember one Monday morning they were complaining about a visiting preacher who 'must have been a closet Baptist' because he 'prayed for every leaf on every tree, and all the birds and flowers he could find' i.e., he was given to long and wordy prayers. Of course I generally pay close attention to prayers, because I like to see if the profferor can hold an interesting conversation with God that he composed all by himself. But this is a topic for another time, another crowd.)   More later. Joyce will take the bench when we return.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Clarification for Mr. Runyon...and others on nice organ vols for church. From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:36:22 -0700 (PDT)   No my friend...in my move to Chicago, I located lots of wonderful music = that is out of print, that is wonderful service music. Music by Cuthbert = Harris, and the books that Dr William Carl put on the market during his = tenure at the Guilmant school. Much of this music was all very new to me, = and I would always, when I first started playing, ask people for various = texts to read on organ repertoire, or for a bibliography of older, out of = print scores (of course that possible bibliography might have been old = and out of print itself). One can eagerly request this information, but = when the frequent negative replies would happen, I would take matters into = my own hands and look for self. One can have the eagerness to be wise as an owl, but that eagerness can = only become empowered learning when others offer positive attitudes and = answers, rather than the opposite. The purpose is to encourage those to = fill the shoes, right?     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
(back) Subject: Good organ voluntaries to library From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:55:21 -0700 (PDT)       The old William Carl books usually have a forward in them that talks = along the lines of "The trainied organist is in need of organ music that = is suitable for worship yet learned in a timely manner" or of that nature. = a few are still in copyright, I think. Some used book stores will happen = to have a music section and have some old Amsco Books. Im not really big = on those, unless they have a wealth of original organ pieces, which some = do. Many are transcription-filled. So much of this stuff is just too good = to be out of print and voiding us in the next generation of time-saving = works. The Carl books were compilations of pieces by various composers, = and not just himself, at least those that I'm locating.           From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
(back) Subject: Re: No sweet guys...i moan liggitamute ORGAN volinturies From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:28:31 EDT     In a message dated 08/22/04 4:23:04 PM, nicemusica@yahoo.com writes:   << No...as a matter of fact...the music had been sitting on my shelf for = some time and had not been played, as I do more things nowadays like the Reger = 30 Short Chorales. I offerd none of this music to anyone. And we all have our =   share of things we have to start off with...only Wunderkinds start off = with the Bach D major/532. And one simply asks for a cordial commenting upon things to replace it = with. >>   I have no idea what any of that means.    
(back) Subject: Re: Clarification for Mr. Runyon...and others on nice organ vols for church. From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:32:47 -0400   There's a "Caprice" by Cuthbert Harris that is fun to play. It's in _A Victorian Organ Album_, ed. Malcolm Archer, published by Oxford. I have a copy of vol. 1 of Harry Rowe Shelley's _Preludes, Offertories, and Postludes" (Schirmer 1909, 1939) that has some real romantic gems. Almost too sappy to play, yet I find them irresistible, in particular: "Romance" by Andr=E9 Benoist, "Arioso" by Adolph Frey, and "Offertory" by Joachim Raff. Also of note is John E. West's "Allegro Maestoso" and an "Offertoire" by Lef=E9bure-W=E9ly, both of which can make good postludes when you're in that kind of mood. Great stuff! This Shelley collection I had somehow picked up, or inherited, when I first began playing organ, but never played. And almost tossed it out! Boy am I glad I didn't!     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu             on 8/22/04 4:36 PM, T.Desiree' Hines at nicemusica@yahoo.com wrote:   No my friend...in my move to Chicago, I located lots of wonderful music tha= t is out of print, that is wonderful service music. Music by Cuthbert Harris, and the books that Dr William Carl put on the market during his tenure at the Guilmant school. Much of this music was all very new to me, and I would always, when I first started playing, ask people for various texts to read on organ repertoire, or for a bibliography of older, out of print scores (o= f course that possible bibliography might have been old and out of print itself). One can eagerly request this information, but when the frequent negative replies would happen, I would take matters into my own hands and look for self.=20   One can have the eagerness to be wise as an owl, but that eagerness can onl= y become empowered learning when others offer positive attitudes and answers, rather than the opposite. The purpose is to encourage those to fill the shoes, right?      
(back) Subject: Re: No sweet guys...i moan liggitamute ORGAN volinturies From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 14:37:59 -0700   Um, I'll take just about ANYTHING 19th century or early 20th century, Desiree.   Cheers,   Bud   TubaMagna@aol.com wrote:   > I assume that you threw out all of this music that was not to your taste =   > AFTER offering it to music schools, secondary schools, poor churches = with no music > libraries, organ students, and colleagues? > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: old music From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 14:42:25 -0700   David Scribner (co-owner of this list) studied with a Chicago RC organist who was a pupil of Widor (his name escapes me at present) ... if you find any music by Chicago composers, I imagine David would like to have it.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe/digital combinations From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:54:45 -0500   Hi Jim and Richard,   O, heretical thought - does that mean that it might be good to install some non-speaking (i.e. used and inexpensive) pipework for facades, etc. in all-digital installations, just to improve the sound?   What a thunderstorm that could cause!   Russ Greene     On Aug 21, 2004, at 10:44 AM, F. Richard Burt wrote:   > Hello, Jim, et al: > > You wrote: > >> Bob Walker has discovered that his "organs" sound more life-like > when the >> speakers are placed amongst some pipework, whether the pipes are > playing >> or not. > > That was already common knowledge before Walker "discovered" it. > It may have been good to confirm it for himself, but this was > already > a known property of sound dispersion at Saville as early as the > late 1960s.    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe/digital combinations From: "John Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:21:38 -0700 (PDT)   What strikes me as particularly heretical about this thought is that it = has generally been the custom to make the facade pipes the most beautiful = ones -- making them of tin or covering them with gold leaf or stenciling = them or even embossing them -- whether they are speaking or non-speaking = pipes. And you want to use recycled cheap ones? John Speller <rggreene2@shaw.ca> wrote: Hi Jim and Richard,   O, heretical thought - does that mean that it might be good to install some non-speaking (i.e. used and inexpensive) pipework for facades, etc. in all-digital installations, just to improve the sound?