PipeChat Digest #4713 - Tuesday, August 24, 2004 [LONG] Joyce in Jackson, Part 2 of 2 by "Glenda" <email@example.com> Re: Visiting New York by <TubaMagna@aol.com> Re: Felix Hell - (was Diane Bish). by <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Re: DIANE is back in Boston by <RMB10@aol.com> Re: Felix Hell - (was Diane Bish). by "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Felix Hell - (was Diane Bish). by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> ELucas and AGO meetings--off topic by <RMB10@aol.com> ALL READ re: Diane and Felix threads by "Tim Bovard" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Felix Hell - (was Diane Bish). by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Teutonic Tyke/Anharmonic Dyke by "Matthew N. Chegezy" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Felix Hell by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Those who can't do... by "Charlie Lester" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Visiting New York by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Re: Visiting New York by "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Drums by <Miltronix2004@wmconnect.com> Re: Drums by <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Re: Drums by <OMusic@aol.com> Re: DIANE is back in Boston by "Octaaf" <email@example.com> Re: Visiting New York by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Felix Hall, Diane Bish by "Gary Black" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: DIANE is back in Boston by "Jan Nijhuis" <email@example.com> Re: DIANE is back in Boston by "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
(back) Subject: [LONG] Joyce in Jackson, Part 2 of 2 From: "Glenda" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:41:25 -0500 Joyce in Jackson Part 2 of 2 I send along the last half of this with fear and trepidation, for I smell a full moon brewing on the list. While I fear not disparaging remarks about my offerings, I do not like to offend unnecessarily (except when I am paid to do so, at which time I try to do it well). Hopefully this will not occur. One of the pre-announcers (there are always several at these dedications) exclaimed at the large attendance, saying that he was thrilled to get such a crowd out on a Friday night after high school football season had begun. The plan of the master of ceremonies to impress upon his congregation the number of visitors backfired, however. When he asked all the nonmembers of the church to stand, almost everyone but the choir and the ushers stood. Apparently the rest of the congregation HAD gone to the football game instead. Finally, Joyce was introduced, and came out wearing a shimmering dress of iridescent royal blue and gold shoes (to paraphrase Will Smith=92s character in the movie =93Independence Day=94, =93Man, I got to get me = some of these=94). She seemed subdued, not as lively in her comments, although she still had a few charming anecdotes to share. Her program: Fantasy on =93A Mighty Fortress=94, op. 65, no. 47 =96 Sigfrid = Karg-Elert Toccata in F major, BWV 540 =96 J. S. Bach Twilight at Fiesole (from =93Harmonies of Florence=94) =96 Seth Bingham Prelude and Fugue on B-A-C-H =96 Franz Liszt Variations on =93America=94 =96 Charles Ives Trilogy of American Hymns: =93The Church in the Wildwood=94, =93Turn = Your Eyes Upon Jesus=94, and =93Rescue the Perishing=94 =96 Joyce Jones Pageant =96 Leo Sowerby Excerpt from her prelude on =93O Wally Wally=94 (commissioned by Salt = Lake AGO for last year=92s convention) Toccata from Symphony V =96 Charles Marie Widor Encore: Flight of the Bumblebee Here I digress a moment. When I was the impressionable age of 14 and raised by strict Southern Baptist parents (I was whipped once for involuntarily exclaiming =93shit=94 after imbibing a burning mouthful of tomato soup), my family was attending a homecoming celebration at a country church. I was drafted to help a little old lady search for serving spoons. While we were rummaging through drawers in the kitchen of the fellowship hall, she muttered out loud, =93Now where did those little bastards go?=94 I looked around quickly to make sure no one, including my parents, mistook those words as coming from MY lips. Now that I=92m older, words I could not use growing up are now sadly part of my daily legal vocabulary. This was the second best live Joyce Jones performance I have attended, the first being the first time I ever heard her several years ago in New York City. She was much more in command, and did quite well, much more impressive than the last two recitals of hers that I attended. She plays entirely from memory, and has no notes on the music desk. Her biggest dilemma of the evening seemed to be remembering where she stored a registration now and then. A couple times during the evening she hesitated, and I recalled the little old lady searching for serving spoons. The Karg-Elert successfully displayed the rich reverberant tones in the mid-section and bass, but not much of the upper registers or brightness shone through. Inasmuch as it was just the first piece, I sat back and waited, glad that the organ wasn=92t too bright. However, the toccata again seemed to be presented with a very sedate registration, and the pedals didn=92t seem as crisp as I like them (like potato chips), which = I chalked up to stylistic choice by the performer. At one point a piston she pushed didn=92t fire, and she bobbled slightly to catch and make it up. =20 The Bingham was pretty, with some pleasing harmonies. Again the music seemed distant, and I began wondering if it was a function of the large crowd of bodies absorbing the sound, her selection of stops, or where I was sitting. I suddenly wanted to roam around the room and see what it sounded like from various points. The Liszt finally evoked some volume out of the organ, although nothing that would scare small children or non-Baptists. The softer passages were extremely clear and musical, and Joyce was very expressive in her phrasing. The Ives got some help from the color guy, who projected images of the flag and spot colors that would do up the MoTabs proud. =20 The hymn preludes were a request by Andy Swanner, the associate minister of music and organist, and a student of hers. They were reminiscent of music one would hear in the church in the wildwood, and the last piece had a little =91filler=92 in it, as Joyce explained, like the organist hidden behind the palm trees doesn=92t know if she has time during the offertory for a second verse. =20 The Pageant was great, not the best I=92ve heard her play it, but as I have said before, I=92d rather hear her play Sowerby and Langlais than anyone else I know. I didn=92t like either composer until I heard Joyce do them, so I was pleased that she included the Pageant on this recital. The softer and medium registrations were full, rich and clear. During the Sowerby, something happened in one of the antiphonal chests. I was never sure the source of the problem, but Sand said it sounded like a swell engine was malfunctioning, and Rick described the sound as of a snare drum with a busted head. This problem recurred in the Widor, and I didn=92t know if the organbuilder contingent (in the middle of the room) or Joyce herself could hear it from where they were, respectively. All in all, it was a nice program, not earth-shattering, nothing bad. Sand expressed pleasure at the sound of the different trumpets, and we were surprised not to hear the en chamades (is that what they called the "Cor de Gabriel", Sand?). I was not as thrilled with the organ as I had hoped =96 I thought the Jacoby Symphony Hall was the more effective of = the two Quimbys I had heard live. This one, like the choir, didn=92t sound = as big as it looked, although I must say the attention given to the smaller voices certainly paid off big dividends. Once the recital was over, we were subjected to more back-thumping and self-congratulations for another 20-30 minutes, before we were mercifully and prayerfully benedicted out of the place. I did not go up to admire the instrument, because the Baptists were taking pictures of themselves on the dais. Neither did I hunt up the organist, with whom I had exchanged e-mails and a couple phone calls, about seeing the organ on the morrow. I had been spoiled during my Little Rock trip in April, both about seeing the instruments and the quality of the instruments I had seen. After a week in court, the long drive, and the advent of the drive home, I just didn=92t want to work that hard to see this organ. Maybe I=92ll return when Ken Cowan comes to play it in February. =20 We did meet Lee and Keith, list members that need no introduction, after the recital, inasmuch as they met on the list and were married with the help of list members. It was very nice to put faces to names, and to spend a few minutes talking =91live and in person=92. We pulled out of the parking lot, and I started toward the hotel. At least I thought I did, until Rick asked me where I was going. Turns out that my sense of direction was all off when we got off the I-55 exit ramp to our hotel. But I didn=92t realize it until just then. I was heading off in the opposite direction. So after a thrilling U-turn in the middle of nowhere, I had us back at the hotel, saying our goodbyes to Sand and Nathan, who were driving back 2 =BD hours to Monroe. I fell asleep five pages from the end of a thriller novel, and remembered nothing until awaking the next morning to a drizzly and dreary day. Rick and I packed up and left, to hunt for the Mississippi Arts Pavilion and the exhibition of =91the glories of old baroque Dresden=92. Here again, my sense of direction was off, even though I thought I had righted it the night before. I had to double-back to get us downtown. =20 This exhibition was also disappointing, having been touted online as more glorious than it proved to be. There was one Vermeer, a couple of forgettable Rembrandts along with a sketch of his, and a Velasquez. There were a few notable Rembrandt students=92 paintings that were remarkably like the master=92s. The guns were impressive, and the armor was armor. But to me china is for eating on and breaking, so seeing all the Meissen pieces didn=92t do much for me, and the 41-carat green = diamond just didn=92t mean as much to someone who had seen some of the Russian crown jewels. However, they had called out a contingent of sheriff=92s deputies to be on hand to guard it, so I was less likely to obtain a souvenir speeding ticket on this trip. =20 So, finding nothing else to hold us in Mississippi, we betook ourselves back to the land that time forgot. I unpacked in record time and passed out from the fatigue of driving and of arguing with Rick about what color =91periwinkle=92 is. Men may have a sense of direction, but we = women know our colors. Glenda Sutton firstname.lastname@example.org
(back) Subject: Re: Visiting New York From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:54:03 EDT As curator of the organ at Marble Collegiate Church, I have heard no news = of a new Director of Music taking over. Although I am usually the LAST to = hear any gossip, I believe Dr. Kenneth Dake is still at the helm. You might want to check out my four most recent pipe organs while you're = in New York City and its environs. One of them, the IV/135 at Temple Emanu-El = which still contains 66 ranks of the 1929 Casavant that had been so badly = damaged and altered over the decades, will be presented at the convention of the American Institute of Organbuilders while you are in town. Sebastian M. Gluck New York City http://www.glucknewyork.com/ ..
(back) Subject: Re: Felix Hell - (was Diane Bish). From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:15:12 EDT No, that's not sick. I just think that keeping people's class/ethicity/race/gender/sexual orientation out of things (unless it is = DIRECTLY relevant) is a polite thing to do. And this is all I have to say about this matter in a = public forum. I believe my private email address is a matter of public record. Pax, Bill H. (Limey/Mick/Kraut/Russki) Boston.
(back) Subject: Re: DIANE is back in Boston From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:50:59 EDT >It most definitely refers to Diane Bish. While her talents may be = limited, >she at least has advanced the cause of the pipe organ somewhat. And I daresay >her name will be fairly well-known long after the Teutonic Tyke about = whose >(equally limited!) talent so many organ aficionados obsess about = nowadays has >been recognized flash in the pan that he is.... >ELucas While not everyone would agree to liking her style of performance, Diane probably has more technique than 98% of anyone on this list. The thing = about Diane is that she knows where her bread is buttered, and she caters to = that audience. Who can fault her for that? She's brought the organ to the = masses, as did Virgil, and has been successful with it. I would hardly say that Felix has "limited" talent, as ELucas puts it. I don't mean to be ugly, but what gives you the qualifications to judge their talent? I mean, I'm an expert or anything, but I've never heard = of you. Monty Bennett
(back) Subject: Re: Felix Hell - (was Diane Bish). From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:01:47 -0400 On 8/23/04 5:24 PM, "PMMGBOB@aol.com" <PMMGBOB@aol.com> wrote: > Actually "Teutonic Tyke" is rather mild, and hardly as derogatory as you = make > it out to be. And we shall indeed see.... Well, Mr./Ms. Lucas: I don=B9t know. (I=B9m not qualified. Fortunately, you are.) But I hope that at least most of us will indeed. Alan
(back) Subject: Re: Felix Hell - (was Diane Bish). From: "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:07:16 -0400 On 8/23/04 6:11 PM, "Paul Valtos" <email@example.com> wrote: > One cannot have it all but one must admire those who excell at something = that > I can only dream of. Paul: As in many times in the past, I cannot, because I am not qualified, =B3praise=B2 your words. But I want you to know that I=B9m (VERY often) inclined to do so anyway. Qualified or not. Alan
(back) Subject: ELucas and AGO meetings--off topic From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:07:39 EDT >BTW I have attended 2 Guild meetings in my life and found them to be as = >stuffy, pretentious, cliquish and claquish as any Internet forum or = organ >concert.... While I have not agreed with anything ELucas has posted as of yet, = regarding Diane or Felix, I do sadly have to agree with the description of an AGO meeting... They can be very cliquish, stuffy and pretentious. If you = don't play in the "right" church, don't do the "right" music, or don't play the = "right" kind of organ, you're viewed as an outcast. It took me a while to get = past that in our local AGO chapter. Other than some of my friends, I was = always looked at with an evil eye, because I was a 25 year old "kid" playing a = huge organ in an evangelical church--so I had some negatives against me, I = wasn't in a liturgical church and I had the jealousy factor against me because of = the instrument I played, plus at some of the organ concerts I had done at the = church, we had attendances of 2500, which is more than the whole chapter = had in a decade of concerts! For a while, I just didn't really do things with = the Guild, and then I got wind that I was considered "stuck up," so I thought = it was best that I start doing things with the local chapter again. What = I've found is that with the announcement of our new instrument, they are all = trying to get friendly with me--and I find it phony. I have my circle of = organist friends in town who I know who are genuine and I do social things with = them, and I'm to the point that I could care less what the rest of the people = think. I know that musicians are artists and artists are emotional and ego = driven. I play better than some and some play better than me. Who = cares...that's life. If they are upset because I can draw a crowd, they'll have to get = over it. If they're jealous because my church is getting a large new = instrument, they'll have to get over it. I think the Guild needs to foster new musicians and train up and coming organists, it's sad that so many people are turned off by the attitudes = that are shown in local AGO chapters, because there are good people in the local chapters, but unfortunately, they are usually the ones who don't attend = the meetings because they don't want to deal with the bad attitudes of many of = the active members. I'm told that is going to beone of the focuses (focii?) = of our chapter this year so we can bring more of our inactive members back into = the fold, as the "attitude" has been the complaint of many of the inactive members. Monty Bennett Friendship Baptist Church Charlotte, NC
(back) Subject: ALL READ re: Diane and Felix threads From: "Tim Bovard" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:13:01 -0500 Friends, These various threads are heading nowhere but downwards...fast...... May we all please just drop it, right here right now ?? Before anyone *else* is offended. . . ! Thank you all for your understanding. Tim Bovard Pipechat Co-Administrator (who just doesn't need the Admin mailbox full of complaints tonite)
(back) Subject: Re: Felix Hell - (was Diane Bish). From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:17:33 -0400 On 8/23/04 6:33 PM, "DERREINETOR@aol.com" <DERREINETOR@aol.com> wrote: > Please lay off the ethnicity thing. >=20 > Food for thought. Thank you, William. It hadn=B9t even occurred to me. But you are RIGHT ON. And thanks again. =20 I=B9m a Scandinavian, and you can call me a =B3Squarehead=B2 any time you want. But you better smile when you do! Alan (suspecting that Felix is proud to be Teutonic, but a bit past =B3tyke=B2 by now)
(back) Subject: Teutonic Tyke/Anharmonic Dyke From: "Matthew N. Chegezy" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:22:37 -0400 Oh thank goodness! This ISN'T the Felix Hell listserv... I thought for a second there that my e-mail address was somehow gained=20= (in a most unscrupulous fashion!) by power-hungry individuals intending=20= for me to receive ONLY messages pertaining to "dieses =E4rgerliche=20 deutsche Kind"... Can't we PLEASE (begging now) form a separate list for those among us=20 who want to discuss nothing but Felix, and leave Pipechat for everyone=20= else (myself gleefully included) who couldn't possibly give a rat's=20 excretory opening about the minute-to-minute minutiae of this poor=20 child's life. There happen to be hundreds, if not thousands of organists who inspire=20= people regularly through their artistic gifts. Our focus should be on=20 all of them. MNC On Aug 23, 2004, at 5:13 PM, Bob Conway wrote: > At 04:37 PM 8/23/2004, ELucas wrote: > > It most definitely refers to Diane Bish. While her talents may be=20 > limited, she at least has advanced the cause of the pipe organ=20 > somewhat. And I daresay her name will be fairly well-known long after=20= > the Teutonic Tyke about whose (equally limited!) talent so many organ=20= > aficionados obsess about nowadays has been recognized flash in the pan=20= > that he is.... > ELucas > > If you are referring to Felix Hell, why on earth do you not refer to=20= > him by his name?=A0 "Teutonic Tyke" is so very disparaging, it's much=20= > too derogatory. Say what you will about him, but at least be up front=20= > about it. > > I personally think that Felix Hell is a talented organist, who is=20 > from time to time guided by his head, - but at the age of nineteen,=20 > most of us were!=A0 I cannot agree that he is a flash in the pan. > > He will mature, - but give him his proper due regard.=A0 There is no=20= > need for making derogatory comments. > > Bob Conway > > =20=
(back) Subject: Re: Felix Hell From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:24:50 -0400 On 8/23/04 6:37 PM, "PMMGBOB@aol.com" <PMMGBOB@aol.com> wrote: > I have attended 2 Guild meetings in my life and found them to be as stuff= y, > pretentious, cliquish and claquish as any Internet forum or organ concert= ..... AW, GEEZ. Must be pathetic. I feel bad about that. And your case is not unique. I=B9ve attended fewer than a dozen or two. Not so great either. But, somehow, I managed to learn something each time. Weird I guess you=B9re just a very superior guy or gal! It=B9s a lonely LIFE up there! But hang onto it. We DO need you! You ARE important! Alan
(back) Subject: Those who can't do... From: "Charlie Lester" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:38:28 -0700 =3D-> Subject: Re: DIANE is back in Boston From: <PMMGBOB@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:27:57 EDT Actually I am on Atkins so no cornflakes here.... <-=3D Which explains why you're so crabby.
(back) Subject: Re: Visiting New York From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:45:35 -0400 On 8/23/04 6:54 PM, "TubaMagna@aol.com" <TubaMagna@aol.com> wrote: > I believe Dr. Kenneth Dake is still at the helm. Fresher news, from a good source, indicates that that remains the case. = The other story was out of date, and temporary at best. Alan
(back) Subject: Re: Visiting New York From: "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:54:48 -0400 On 8/23/04 6:54 PM, "TubaMagna@aol.com" <TubaMagna@aol.com> wrote: > You might want to check out my four most recent pipe organs while you're = in > New York City and its environs. One of them, the IV/135 at Temple Emanu-E= l > which still contains 66 ranks of the 1929 Casavant that had been so badly > damaged and altered over the decades, will be presented at the convention= of > the American Institute of Organbuilders while you are in town. THAT, I think, you should consider an extreme MUST. Should you live so long, you will be recounting THAT visit four or five decades from now. Do NOT take this advice/invitation lightly! Alan, who=B9s been there, with noncomprehending and blinking eyes!
(back) Subject: Drums From: <Miltronix2004@wmconnect.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:59:09 EDT Hi Listers. Does anyone play drums, or have a family member who does? If so, please contact me offlist... I need to find out the minimum floor space a = 'typical' set of traps takes up when in use. We are going to change our (front) choir = gallery a bit and I would like to leave room. (We don't have a drummer yet but = would like one eventually for our P&W services, thus this question.) To keep this marginally on topic--we aren't getting rid of the organ... = just may have to move it over a couple inches. :-) Thanky, Bill Miller, Norfolk VA
(back) Subject: Re: Drums From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:11:17 EDT I'm not against drums! I love percussion instruments carefully scored = for and tastefully played. I do not support placing a singer, instrumentalist, percussionist - = ANYONE - remotely near the organ console which can (and likely will) obscure the "total room ensemble" from my ears. Organists have challenges enough with balancing the different divisions = of their instrument with one another without having their hearing hampered = by placing an additional sound source - of any kind - closer to the organist = than the sound of the organ. Got it? I am obligated to work with one particular trumpet player from time to = time who is out of his comfort zone standing mid-gallery and sounding his instrument down the axis of the building (a spot which allows me to hear = his instrument in context with the organ registration). He wants to stand = next to the console of the organ. He is not overblowing, but his instrument totally = obscures (from my ears) the sound of the organ. It is an impossible musical = situation. Please don't place your drums/percussion near your organ console. [If = you feel that you must, then also place the trumpets and trombones right in = front of YOU, the conductor; you won't have to worry (at all) about the sound of = your choir. You won't be able to hear them!] Got it? dgr Missouri/USA
(back) Subject: Re: Drums From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:15:08 EDT That reminds me of a lady in the choir at my home church who had to sit = next to the organ, which was in the choir loft, in order to hear the pitch. = Lee
(back) Subject: Re: DIANE is back in Boston From: "Octaaf" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:42:53 -0500 And "ELucas" should be NEARLY so talented. Jerk .... TGrenz ----- Original Message -----=20 From: PMMGBOB@aol.com=20 To: firstname.lastname@example.org=20 Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 3:37 PM Subject: Re: DIANE is back in Boston It most definitely refers to Diane Bish. While her talents may be = limited, she at least has advanced the cause of the pipe organ somewhat. = And I daresay her name will be fairly well-known long after the Teutonic = Tyke about whose (equally limited!) talent so many organ aficionados = obsess about nowadays has been recognized flash in the pan that he = is.... ELucas
(back) Subject: Re: Visiting New York From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:50:16 EDT We would be remiss if we didn't mention the giant Schantz at the RC = Cathedral in Newark. Neil Brown
(back) Subject: Felix Hall, Diane Bish From: "Gary Black" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:43:13 -0500 Do what Tim said. Just give it up! Who even cares? Gary
(back) Subject: Re: DIANE is back in Boston From: "Jan Nijhuis" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:18:08 +0800 At any moment in the near future a major organ manufacturer will introduce= an "ELucas Siganture Series" to go head-to-head with the Diane Bish Signat= ure Series Allen Renaissance organs. (Or not.) Wish I had a smidgen of Diane or Felix's talent.=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Octaaf" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:42:53 -0500 To: "PipeChat" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: DIANE is back in Boston > And "ELucas" should be NEARLY so talented. Jerk .... >=20 > TGrenz -- Jan Nijhuis email@example.com --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm __
(back) Subject: Re: DIANE is back in Boston From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:14:02 -0700 (PDT) I do wholeheartedly agree with Monty regarding Diane Bish and the talks = about her talent. Atleast Diane Bish is an inspiring player who wows her = audiences, young and old, in person or on television. Personally, I think = a few people on some lists could learn to reach over and pull a few reeds = and mixtures in repertoire, and start sparkling some toccata-introductions = on these hymns. From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com