PipeChat Digest #4718 - Friday, August 27, 2004
 
Re: PipeChat Digest #4717 - 08/26/04
  by "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com>
RE:copyright and mechanical fees
  by "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com>
Re: copyright and mechanical fees
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: copyright and mechanical fees
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees)
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Re: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees)
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees)
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
RE: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees)
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
Re: copyright and mechanical fees
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees)
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Re: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees)
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees)
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
Re: [LONG] Joyce in Jackson, Part 1 of 2
  by "rgunther@cantv.net" <rgunther@cantv.net>
Re: copyright and mechanical fees
  by "Blair Anderson" <bda@shaw.ca>
Re: copyright and mechanical fees
  by "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com>
Anglican-Music subscription info
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: [LONG] Joyce in Jackson, Part 1 of 2
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Southern directions
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Southern directions
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4717 - 08/26/04 From: "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:43:33 -0400   Because the owner of the juke box pays licensing fees. Most of the time the owner is NOT the owner of the tavern, but pays the tavern owner a fee for permission to install the juke box. In any event, the owner of the juke box pays the licensing fees. David Baker     > Subject: Copyrights > From: "James M. Dahlgren" <jmdkimo@yahoo.com> > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:36:04 -0700 (PDT) > > Friends, > > How is a church playing a CD any different from a CD > in a Juke Box in a tavern? It is played and revenue is > generated. > > PEACE -James >    
(back) Subject: RE:copyright and mechanical fees From: "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:49:41 -0500   Thank you to all of you who responded with information and/or opinions concerning the licensing fees for using a CD in the worship service. (Except to that one person who emailed me to suggest that the real problem was that I am a control-freak and am afraid to play praise-band music because my congregation might like it. That was neither helpful -- nor accurate.)   It turns out that it may have been a false-alarm. I am now being told that we are talking about a non-comercial recording produced in Cuba by an amateur which is not copyright or subject to a mechanical license. The saga continues.... September is not here yet!   I have learned some things about mechanical licensing which I did not know, and I hope some on the list have as well and will think twice about it in the future.     Larry Wheelock Director of Music Ministries Kenwood United Methodist Church Milwaukee, Wisconsin musicdirector@kenwood-umc.org
(back) Subject: Re: copyright and mechanical fees From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:51:29 EDT   Larry,   Thank you for bringing this up on the list--I too, learned a thing or two from the contributions of our fellow list-members. This seems to be a = subject of increasing importance to many in our profession.   I would be VERY interested to hear the content of the Cuban CD you refer = to. If you hear it, please share your observations with us!   Pax, Bill H. SJE Boston  
(back) Subject: Re: copyright and mechanical fees From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:54:40 -0700   Something that should also be pointed out is that both copyright and mechanical permissions and fees extend to audio and video recordings made by professionals, as is often the case at weddings. This came up on Anglican-Music awhile ago.   The laws for the U.K. are not exactly the same, but similar, and the contract the bride and groom and the videographer had to sign in order for (1) the church to give PERMISSION for the recording to be MADE, and (2) absolving the church of any and all liability if the fees WEREN'T paid was something to behold.   With all the dust-up about MP3s and file-sharing on the Net, it behooves churches and musicians to research this VERY carefully.   If you recall, Friends of the English Liturgy (I think it was) brought (and WON) a multi-million-dollar lawsuit against the RC Archdiocese of Chicago for sundry violations, so it DOES happen.   I'm all for it ... illegal use of music drives up the cost of publishing, and drives down the percentage paid to the composer, which for church music in the US averages something like five cents on the dollar for each copy sold.   That's one reason I've chosen to self-publish electronically ... even with limited distribution and NO advertising budget, I can do better than THAT.   Illegal use also takes money away from the ASCAP and Musicians' Union pension funds, which is where most of those fees go; and while union musicians do better than church organists, they still don't do all THAT well, except for a few superstars.   I think I read somewhere that the average starting full-time salary for a violinist in an orchestra is something like $40K/yr. If you live in an expensive area like the Northeast Corridor or Southern California, that ain't much.   And most big orchestras have exclusionary clauses in their contracts forbidding you to play in any OTHER orchestra within a certain geographical radius. I think the LA Phil's is 200 miles.   Bottom line: illegal use of music hurts EVERYBODY.   Cheers,   Bud              
(back) Subject: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees) From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:16:37 -0500   I can assure you that I get more than 5% royalties from all my publishers. Where do you get your info?   Robert Lind who has never been able to get over the feeling that one self-publishes = when no one else will :-)   ----- Original Message ----- From: Liquescent <quilisma@cox.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:54 PM Subject: Re: copyright and mechanical fees     illegal use of music drives up the cost of > publishing, and drives down the percentage paid to the composer, which > for church music in the US averages something like five cents on the > dollar for each copy sold. > > That's one reason I've chosen to self-publish electronically ... even > with limited distribution and NO advertising budget, I can do better > than THAT.      
(back) Subject: Re: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees) From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:32:16 -0700       Robert Lind wrote:   > I can assure you that I get more than 5% royalties from all my = publishers. > Where do you get your info?   GIA Publications.   > > Robert Lind > who has never been able to get over the feeling that one self-publishes = when > no one else will :-) >   That's entirely correct. I write in a tiny niche market. Even at the height of the anglo-catholic revival, music for the anglo-catholic service was expensive and hard to come by ... toward the end, Francis Burgess' widow was selling his Liturgical Choirbooks out of her home in Scotland. The nuns at Wantage, Oxfordshire who published Dr. Palmer's monumental Plainchant Gradual simply gave up, sold off their stock, and sold their printing press and Gregorian fonts.   Sibelius and Finale have, of course, made things a lot easier, but the market has contracted even more in the meantime. I have maybe 200 churches and individuals on my music download list ... even if everybody bought everything, that's still scarcely enough for a press run if one factors in postage, etc. That's why I do everything electronically.   I CAN foresee a MODEST revival of interest in the kinds of things I do if and when Authenticam Liturgiam becomes law, PROVIDING that the Latin Mass makes a further comeback. MOST of those RC publishers like J. Fischer and McLaughlin & Reilly are long gone; so are their engraving plates.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: RE: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees) From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:39:40 -0500   =20   =20   "Robert Lind--who has never been able to get over the feeling that one self-publishes when no one else will :-)"   =20   =20   I can't speak for Bud, and he already has for himself:-), but I wouldn't assume that just because a publisher won't publish a composition it isn't worthy. Many publishers simply don't continue printing works that don't sell to their expectations-which is regrettable, because many nice works are unavailable this way.=20   =20   One example I can think of is Douglas Leightenheimer's musical paraphrase on Psalm 23, "The Faithful Shepherd." St. Cecilia stopped publishing it for this reason, and it's a great piece, if you aren't familiar with it.   =20   Daniel   Springfield, Missouri  
(back) Subject: RE: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees) From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:47:11 -0500   On the other hand, just because it was published does it mean it deserved to be!   =20   But I think we're all aware of that...     Daniel   =20   =20   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Hancock Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 2:40 PM To: PipeChat Subject: RE: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees)   =20   =20   =20   "Robert Lind--who has never been able to get over the feeling that one self-publishes when no one else will :-)"   =20   =20   I can't speak for Bud, and he already has for himself:-), but I wouldn't assume that just because a publisher won't publish a composition it isn't worthy. Many publishers simply don't continue printing works that don't sell to their expectations-which is regrettable, because many nice works are unavailable this way.=20   =20   One example I can think of is Douglas Leightenheimer's musical paraphrase on Psalm 23, "The Faithful Shepherd." St. Cecilia stopped publishing it for this reason, and it's a great piece, if you aren't familiar with it.   =20   Daniel   Springfield, Missouri  
(back) Subject: Re: copyright and mechanical fees From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:55:54 -0500     From the Small World Department   When Bud wrote, in part:   > If you recall, Friends of the English Liturgy (I think it was) brought > (and WON) a multi-million-dollar lawsuit against the RC Archdiocese of > Chicago for sundry violations, so it DOES happen.   two things immediately come to my mind.   1) I was amazed to learn recently the information shown under "F.E.L. publications" on the this link:   <http://www.mpa.org/agency/imprintsf.html>   never would have thought this imprint would wind up in this publishing house.   2) with the suit against the Archdiocese of Chicago, as a practical matter, this was NOT a case of one choir performing a few pieces of music in a live performance, on one or even a few occasions. This case was about wholesale copying of an thousands of copies of much of the contents of an entire book by a number of parishes, and the refusal of the Archdiocese to direct that this was an impermissible activity.   ns  
(back) Subject: Re: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees) From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:58:41 -0500   Bud, I've gone to the GIA website and am pasting the relevant sentences:   "In general terms, we pay writers a royalty of 10% of the retail selling price on all copies sold. This means that we pay a full 10=A2 on a $1.00 = item, even if the item was sold by us at wholesale discount."   Any other candidate publishers who supposedly pay 5%?   Robert Lind looking for reliable info   ----- Original Message ----- From: Liquescent <quilisma@cox.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 2:32 PM Subject: Re: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees)     > > > Robert Lind wrote: > > > I can assure you that I get more than 5% royalties from all my publishers. > > Where do you get your info? > > GIA Publications.    
(back) Subject: Re: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees) From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:42:34 -0700   OK, I misread/misremembered it. Still ain't much (chuckle).   Cheers,   Bud   Robert Lind wrote:   > Bud, I've gone to the GIA website and am pasting the relevant sentences: > > "In general terms, we pay writers a royalty of 10% of the retail selling > price on all copies sold. This means that we pay a full 10=A2 on a $1.00 = item, > even if the item was sold by us at wholesale discount." > > Any other candidate publishers who supposedly pay 5%? > > Robert Lind > looking for reliable info > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Liquescent <quilisma@cox.net> > To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 2:32 PM > Subject: Re: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees) > > > >> >>Robert Lind wrote: >> >> >>>I can assure you that I get more than 5% royalties from all my > > publishers. > >>>Where do you get your info? >> >>GIA Publications. > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Royalties (was copyright and mechanical fees) From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:54:46 -0400   A major Baptist publishing house pays 10% on first printing and only 5% after...     --   noel jones, aago noeljones@frogmusic.com ----------------------------------- 1 877 249-5251 Athens, TN USA   www.frogmusic.com Rodgers Organ Users Group Frog Music Press - Organ and MIDI Music FMP Organ Music Search Service Rodgers Organ Design & Voicing Services      
(back) Subject: Re: [LONG] Joyce in Jackson, Part 1 of 2 From: "rgunther@cantv.net" <rgunther@cantv.net> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:29:00 -0400   I very much enjoyed Glenda's Series. I cannot resist a somewhat off topic comment to following:   Glenda wrote:   It is said that women have no sense of direction, particularly in terms of compass points (i.e., never tell a woman to 'turn north' - trust me on this). SNIP ETC   Here in South Florida a compass in the car is a MUST. The landscape is uniform flat (very alike the Plains in Venezuela). On sunny days one manages to orient by the sun; but on cloudy days one messes up everything because all looks alike..... After I got lost miserably three times I = went into the next Walgreens and bought a compass too! :)   Very late in my mail reading... Andres    
(back) Subject: Re: copyright and mechanical fees From: "Blair Anderson" <bda@shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:03:49 -0500   On 8/26/04 1:54 PM, "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote:   > This came up on > Anglican-Music awhile ago.   Bud:   A Google search for "Anglican-Music" turns up a link for the group, but = it's dead.   Can you share details of the subscription information?   Thanks!   CHEERS! Blair...   -- "No one is responsible for all the things that happen to him, but he is responsible for the way he acts when they do happen."      
(back) Subject: Re: copyright and mechanical fees From: "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:51:16 -0700 (PDT)   send a blank message to: anglican-music-suscribe@list.stsams.org   That should get you going....   Best wishes     Morton Belcher fellow list member of both lists....   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D   --- Blair Anderson <bda@shaw.ca> wrote:   > On 8/26   /04 1:54 PM, "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> > wrote: > > > This came up on > > Anglican-Music awhile ago. > > Bud: > > A Google search for "Anglican-Music" turns up a link > for the group, but it's > dead. > > Can you share details of the subscription > information? > > Thanks! > > CHEERS! Blair... > > -- > "No one is responsible for all the things that > happen to him, but he is > responsible for the way he acts when they do > happen." > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Anglican-Music subscription info From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:57:11 -0700   Send an e-mail with "Subscribe" (without the quotes) in both the Subject and the body to:   anglican-music-subscribe@list.stsams.org   You should get an automated reply; respond to that and you're in (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   Blair Anderson wrote:   > On 8/26/04 1:54 PM, "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote: > > >>This came up on >>Anglican-Music awhile ago. > > > Bud: > > A Google search for "Anglican-Music" turns up a link for the group, but = it's > dead. > > Can you share details of the subscription information? > > Thanks! > > CHEERS! Blair... >      
(back) Subject: RE: [LONG] Joyce in Jackson, Part 1 of 2 From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:04:15 -0500   Where you are, Andres, it is the law that the landmarks change at least once per year. The closer you get to a major theme park, the shorter that time period becomes. It took me 2 hours once to make a 30-minute trip to the house of friends, because their instructions described the route as it once was. The exit numbers, street names, and highway numbers had all changed. But because they drove by rote, they had never noticed and couldn't understand why I couldn't find their home.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of rgunther@cantv.net   Here in South Florida a compass in the car is a MUST. The landscape is uniform flat (very alike the Plains in Venezuela). On sunny days one manages to orient by the sun; but on cloudy days one messes up everything because all looks alike..... After I got lost miserably three times I went into the next Walgreens and bought a compass too! :)        
(back) Subject: Southern directions From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:24:33 -0700       rgunther@cantv.net wrote:   > > Here in South Florida a compass in the car is a MUST. The landscape is > uniform flat (very alike the Plains in Venezuela). On sunny days one > manages to orient by the sun; but on cloudy days one messes up = everything > because all looks alike..... After I got lost miserably three times I = went > into the next Walgreens and bought a compass too! :) > > Very late in my mail reading... > Andres > > >   You will also eventually learn to speak Southern. Do not attempt to apply the rules of standard English. It is another language (grin).   For instance, directions in Southern to the above-mentioned Walgreen's would read something like this:   "Oh, it's about a hoot and a holler that-a-way, down in Florence Villa behind the barbeque stand next to the Holiness Church."   A hoot and a holler is a linear measurement based on how loud a Southerner can yell. Considering that we have hog-calling contests with eliminations, heats, etc. and large cash prizes, a hoot and a holler can be as long as 1/2 mile, depending on the lung capacity of the hooter/hollerer.   "Hooter", by the way, is NOT a Southern ephemism for the female breasts (as in "Hooters Restaurants") ... Southern women have "jugs" or "bazookas," depending upon whether or not the (male) speaker is ex-military. I am told that "rack" or "racks" is also in current use, but this is a pernicious Yankee infiltration, and sullies the purity of Southern as spoken by REAL Southerners (grin).   Somewhere on the Net is a translation of common Southern phrases into standard English ... time, distance, superlatives, etc. ... I only recall a few.   TIME: "he'll be along directly" - translation: "when he damn feels like it, if at all." This particularly applies to independent artisans and auto mechanics.   DISTANCE: see above. Also "a fur piece," which is not a mink stole, but a long trip/distance.   SUPERLATIVES: "nervous as a cat on a hot tin roof" (made famous by the Tennessee Williams play of the same name).   "Cold as a Yankee's charity" (WE still remember "The Recent Unpleasantness" of 1860-1865 as if it were yesterday; any attempt to call it "The Civil War" will result in FURTHER unpleasantness and/or physical violence. The preferred name is the above, or "The Infamous War Of Northern Agression."   "Cold as a witch's teat in a snowstorm" ... self-explanatory, sorta. It DOES snow in some parts of the Deep South.   PUT-DOWNS: beware of anything introduced with "bless his heart" ... a devastating put-down is SURE to follow ... "bless his heart, his mama dresses him like a scarecrow on Sunday" ... "bless her heart, that dress looks like it came out of the missionary barrel" (the collection point for old clothes to be sent abroad to "the missions," a great concern of Southern protestant churches) ... "bless her heart, I haven't seen a hat THAT ugly since Eleanor Roosevelt" ... and so forth (chuckle)   THE FOUR FOOD GROUPS: bacon, lard, fried chicken, and collard greens.   Any questions?   Cheers,   Bud, a Southerner born and bred              
(back) Subject: Re: Southern directions From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 02:01:48 -0500   Bud wrote:   > THE FOUR FOOD GROUPS: bacon, lard, fried chicken, and collard greens.   Is this a regional thang? I was told in Gawga some years back that the four food groups were   fat, salt, c' cola, and t'baccuh.   ns