PipeChat Digest #4720 - Friday, August 27, 2004
 
RE: 16' Manual stops...
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
Re: Southern directions
  by "Bernadette Wagner" <musicalgrl90@yahoo.com>
Re: 16' Manual stops...
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: STraube and Bach
  by "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br>
Re: 16' Manual stops...
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
PipeDreams Broadcast online (was Straube, etc.)
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
OFF-TOPIC -- DELETE IF NOT INTERESTED -- BUD'S SITUATION
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Holtkamp query
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Holtkamp query
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: 16' Manual stops...
  by "John Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: 16 Manual stops
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
T.C.16s, mutations and cornets
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: 16' Manual stops...
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: STraube and Bach
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Marking
  by "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com>
Re: T.C.16s, mutations and cornets
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
16' Manual stop choices
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: RE: 16' Manual stops... From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:36:43 -0500   I think you will find that much depends on the character of the organ considered. A 16' Double Open Diapason or Principal may be very fine with the proper amount of upper-work necessary to balance it, but on a 1930's orchestral organ with mostly 8's and 4's it will be too much and you'll just get "mud." =20   =20   Any manual 16' stop should be chosen and voiced to add depth and gravity to the ensemble in question without cluttering and obscuring it. =20   =20   In a small organ with a limited stop-list, I have seen a 16' Dulciana that not only balanced well in a flue ensemble, but combined with the Oboe 8', made the nicest (and only) reed chorus the organ had. Especially in small organ design, one has to consider that each stop chosen will function in as many different ways as possible.   =20   Daniel   Springfield, Missouri   =20   =20   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of littlebayus@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 4:46 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: 16' Manual stops...   =20   Ladies and Gentlement of the list:   =20   Would you share with me and the other members of the   list your opinions and reasons as to=20   =20   1) what flue stop or stops you believe to be   suitable as 16' Swell stops?   =20   2) what flue stop or stops you believe to be=20   suitable as 16' Great stops?   =20   3) should 16' manual flue stops be full compass?=20   or should they just go down to Tenor C?   =20   =20   As for me, I have only played a few organs that have   had these 16' manual stops... and the lowest octave   of many of these stops were *very* slow sounding...   =20   The best Swell 16' flue I have come across was a   Contra Gamba 16' (also playable on the Pedal organ of   that instrument...)   =20   I really haven't come across any Great 16' that made   me jump and down with glee... Most of them were   either 16' Quintatons or 16' Gedeckts or Bourdons...   =20   Best wishes to all,   =20   =20   Morton Belcher   fellow list member...   =20   =20   =20   =20   =20   __________________________________   Do you Yahoo!?   Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!   http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail   =20   ******************************************************************   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!"   PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics   HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org   List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org   Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org   List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org>   List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org>   List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>  
(back) Subject: Re: Southern directions From: "Bernadette Wagner" <musicalgrl90@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:37:02 -0700 (PDT)   I've been to New Orleans. Very nice. I think I've gone, like, 3 times? = Somethin' like that. Very cool!   firman1 <firman1@prodigy.net> wrote:Actually, here in New Orleans we eat = anything that doesn't move fast enough. By the way, they are spelled "Beignets". BAF II     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe:       --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
(back) Subject: Re: 16' Manual stops... From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:54:36 -0700   Manual doubles:   Great -   16' (metal) Principal (1st choice); 16' (metal) Violone (2nd choice), haskell basses if needed 16' (metal) Bourdon (3rd choice)   Swell -   the FIRST 16' stop in a Swell should be a 16' REED, in my estimation, particularly in an Anglican organ. The 16' reed plus 8' flues plus super-coupler can then give you a smaller secondary "Full Swell to Reeds" sound.   SOMEWHERE on the organ, either in the Swell or the Choir, needs to be an AGILE 16' flue for continuo-playing ... a Quintadena is an excellent choice for that, and the Swell is a good place for it (isn't that where it is in St. Sulpice?)   It should NOT be on the Great because most Quintadenas don't have enough fundamental or volume to undergird the Plein Jeu for French music.   Choir -   Anglican organs - Double Dulciana, duplexed to Pedal ... and by this I mean a good honest English Dulciana (miniature Principal), not the nondescript American variety from the 1920s.   Lacking the space for that, I think the Choir is a better place for a wooden 16' Lieblich Gedeckt than the Swell, if for no other reason than a Swell Quintadena goes better with the Swell strings.   Others - in a Germanic organ, I have found a very soft 16' Viola da Gamba (lingual) or Continuo-Regal (wooden resonators) to be useful in the Positiv ... the former, if voiced JUST right, can often substitute for the missing 'cello or bassoon to make up an instrumental trio.   Cheers,   Bud       Colin Mitchell wrote: > Hello, > > I once played a fine Fr Willis organ with a 16ft Swell > Contra Gamba....very nice and very useful; adding > little real mud but ample gravity. > > Of course, on the Great, the only choice is a 16ft > Principal double where space/money permit. Bach knew > them well! > > A 16ft Quintaton is often discredited on this list, > but is a very useful colouring stop and a fairly > weightless double which adds useful gravity. I once > played an organ with a truly excellent Quintaton, > which had plenty of character. This had been created > from an old Bourdon when Hill, Norman & Beard re-built > it, and all they did was tack on some plywood to the > old mouth with tiny panel pins. Crude it may have > been, but is was superbly effective as a piece of > revoicing. > > Choir doubles should always be Dulciana or Salicional > in character, but again, the Quintaton or Gedact > Pommer is a nice alternative. > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchell (UK but currently in Holland) > > > --- "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > >>Ladies and Gentlement of the list: >> >>Would you share with me and the other members of the >>list your opinions and reasons as to >> >>1) what flue stop or stops you believe to be >> suitable as 16' Swell stops? >> > > > > > > _______________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: STraube and Bach From: "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:52:12 -0300   Daniel,   I'd like to thank you very much, because I didn't know this possibility (to hear music from radio program). I'm hearing the 'Straube' edition right now. This is a very important edition, an historical edition because it presents a typical conception of organ Romantic.   Daniel Hancock wrote:   > A recent Pipedreams > > broadcast featured K=E4te von Tricht, playing the Prelude in b minor = after > > the Straube edition, at the 1930 Sauer of Bremen Cathedral, Germany. > > Absolutely wonderful! (And I love hearing Ton Koopman, Kjetil Haugsand, > > Philippe Herreweghe, and others, approaching Bach's music in a more > > "historical" way.) > > > > - Jarle (having spent most of the day hacking my website, at > > http://jarle.moo.no/, without it being possible to see much difference!) > > > > ****************************************************************** > > > > > > In addition to the PipeDreams program Jarle listed, you can also hear > K=E4te von Tricht playing the following pieces from Straube editions > also on the PipeDreams website (http://pipedreams.publicradio..org/ > <http://pipedreams.publicradio.org/>): > > > > 10 March 2000 > > "Fantasy in G" S.752 > > > > 10 June 2002 > > "Prelude and Fugue in G" S.541 > > > > 29 June 2004 > > "Prelude in b" S.544 > > > > 08 May 2002 > > "Prelude and Fugue in G" S.541 > > > > 01 August 2004 > > "Prelude in b" S.544 > > > > Daniel > > Springfield, Missouri > > > > >    
(back) Subject: Re: 16' Manual stops... From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:59:35 EDT   The Martin Ott organ at Northern IL University has two of the nicest = manual 16's I've ever played- a prinzipal 16 on the hauptwerk, and a 16 bourdon = in the schwellwerk-with the box closed-the swell shutters would vibrate just = a tiny bit when that bourdon was on---oooh how sweet it was. If you want to = hear the organ go here: _http://organsandorganistsonline.com/downloads.htm_ (http://organsandorganistsonline.com/downloads.htm) You will find a recording of me playing the D major prelude using the = full plenum 16-mix. Here is a link to the organ: _http://www.martinottpipeorgan.com/OpusGallery1/Opus17.htm_ (http://www.martinottpipeorgan.com/OpusGallery1/Opus17.htm) note: the list says that a prinizipalbass is in the swell-but its really = in the pedal-just a typo. the great 16' is in the main case facade, and the pedal 16' prinzipal is = in the pedal towers' facade. cheers, gfc ___________________________________________________________________________= ___ _________ _______________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________ _______________________________ ________________ Gregory Francis Ceurvorst 1921 Sherman Avenue # GS Evanston, IL 60201 847.332.2788 home/fax 708.243.2549 mobile _Home Email: gfc234@aol.com_ (mailto:gfc234@aol.com) _Mobile Email: gfc234@nextel.blackberry.net_ (mailto:gfc234@nextel.blackberry.net)    
(back) Subject: PipeDreams Broadcast online (was Straube, etc.) From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:01:44 -0500   You're welcome-I listen to the PipeDreams broadcasts all the time. For t= hose of you who might not know, you can hear all the weekly PipeDreams br= oadcasts back to 1995 at the following website:   =20   http://pipedreams.publicradio.org/   =20   Happy listening!   =20   Daniel   Springfield, Missouri   =20   P.S. If you like PipeDreams, also try OrganLive (http://www.organlive.co= m/), which is more randomized organ music programmed all day long-like a = continual radio station with just organ music!   =20   =20   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of D= omitila Ballesteros Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 3:52 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: STraube and Bach   =20   Daniel,   I'd like to thank you very much, because I didn't know this possibility (= to hear music from radio program). I'm hearing the 'Straube' edition right now. This is a very important ed= ition, an historical edition because it presents a typical conception of= organ Romantic.   Daniel Hancock wrote:       A recent Pipedreams=20   broadcast featured K=E4te von Tricht, playing the Prelude in b minor afte= r=20   the Straube edition, at the 1930 Sauer of Bremen Cathedral, Germany.=20   Absolutely wonderful! (And I love hearing Ton Koopman, Kjetil Haugsand,=20   Philippe Herreweghe, and others, approaching Bach's music in a more=20   "historical" way.)   =20   - Jarle (having spent most of the day hacking my website, at=20   http://jarle.moo.no/, without it being possible to see much difference!)   =20   ******************************************************************   =20   =20   In addition to the PipeDreams program Jarle listed, you can also hear K=E4= te von Tricht playing the following pieces from Straube editions also on = the PipeDreams website (http://pipedreams.publicradio..org/ <http://piped= reams.publicradio.org/> ):   =20   10 March 2000   "Fantasy in G" S.752   =20   10 June 2002   "Prelude and Fugue in G" S.541   =20   29 June 2004   "Prelude in b" S.544   =20   08 May 2002   "Prelude and Fugue in G" S.541   =20   01 August 2004   "Prelude in b" S.544   =20   Daniel   Springfield, Missouri   =20   =20   =20  
(back) Subject: OFF-TOPIC -- DELETE IF NOT INTERESTED -- BUD'S SITUATION From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:08:33 -0700   We have found a third person to share the cottage with us ... a neighbor who can no longer maintain HIS own flat because of lack of money.   Thanks to everyone's generosity, we SHOULD just barely be able to catch up on our rent for August; September should be better with a third = roommate.   It's much easier to get assistance for utilities and food than it is for rent.   Thanks again for all your help!   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: Holtkamp query From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:06:25 EDT   Speaking of Holtkamp, with Bud being gone from St. Matthew's in Newport Beach, are they still going ahead with the organ project at the church? = Didn't they sign with Holtkamp or weren't they talking to Holtpkamp? Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: Holtkamp query From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:16:26 -0700   The new organist wants a Mander tracker, which obviously can't be built in two stages as the Holtkamp was going to be. So they bought a large 2m Allen for an "interim" instrument (even though the old Allen had new key contacts and combo action, and was perfectly adequate), broke the contract with Holtkamp, and gave him the 2m Moller that was to have been incorporated into the new organ. When all was said and done, they flushed about $50K that they'd already spent on the project, but that's no longer my problem.   I have heard from several members of the congregation that they do NOT like the new Allen ... 51 equivalent stops in a reverberant building that only seats 150 people is overkill at best, and evidently it's cranked all the way up ... the description from members of the choir was "EAR-BLEEDING loud" (chuckle).   Silly, SILLY people ...   Cheers,   Bud   RMB10@aol.com wrote:   > Speaking of Holtkamp, with Bud being gone from St. Matthew's in Newport =   > Beach, are they still going ahead with the organ project at the church? = Didn't > they sign with Holtkamp or weren't they talking to Holtpkamp? > > Monty Bennett > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: 16' Manual stops... From: "John Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:22:38 -0700 (PDT)   I agree with most of this, except that I would say that the No. 1 16' flue = stop to have on the Swell should be a 16' string -- a Willlis-style Contra = Gamba would be an excellent choice. Also, most Quintadenas are a little = hooty sounding, so for the Choir 16 ft. I would prefer a soft Bourdon or = even another string such as a Contra Dulciana. Quintadenas are fine in = theory, but don't make G. Donald Harrison's mistake of thinking that = theory can be necessarily translated into practice. IMHO the number of = successful Quintadenas that have ever been made can be counted on the = fingers of one hand. Mostly by Roosevelt and Johnson. John Speller   Liquescent <quilisma@cox.net> wrote: Manual doubles:   Great -   16' (metal) Principal (1st choice); 16' (metal) Violone (2nd choice), haskell basses if needed 16' (metal) Bourdon (3rd choice)   Swell -   the FIRST 16' stop in a Swell should be a 16' REED, in my estimation, particularly in an Anglican organ. The 16' reed plus 8' flues plus super-coupler can then give you a smaller secondary "Full Swell to Reeds" sound.   SOMEWHERE on the organ, either in the Swell or the Choir, needs to be an AGILE 16' flue for continuo-playing ... a Quintadena is an excellent choice for that, and the Swell is a good place for it (isn't that where it is in St. Sulpice?)   It should NOT be on the Great because most Quintadenas don't have enough fundamental or volume to undergird the Plein Jeu for French music.   Choir -   Anglican organs - Double Dulciana, duplexed to Pedal ... and by this I mean a good honest English Dulciana (miniature Principal), not the nondescript American variety from the 1920s.   Lacking the space for that, I think the Choir is a better place for a wooden 16' Lieblich Gedeckt than the Swell, if for no other reason than a Swell Quintadena goes better with the Swell strings.   Others - in a Germanic organ, I have found a very soft 16' Viola da Gamba (lingual) or Continuo-Regal (wooden resonators) to be useful in the Positiv ... the former, if voiced JUST right, can often substitute for the missing 'cello or bassoon to make up an instrumental trio.    
(back) Subject: Re: 16 Manual stops From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:32:08 EDT   My preference for all stops is that everything is a full compass stop...I =   can slide on mutations, maybe letting them go to Tenor C, but I think a 16 = stop should go all the way down. As to stops themselves, on the Swell, I like to have a 16' Lieblich = Gedeckt (or something of that genre) that is also borrowed to the Pedal. It makes = a great "smoky" effect when used with the 8' strings, and also gives great thickness when used with Full Swell. On the Great, I love to have a Violone or some sort of medium weight stop = of the Principal family...sometimes a "true" Principal or Diapason can get = too weighty, but a Violone generally gives just enough heft and gravity, but = still maintains clarity in the ensemble. If possible, it's always nice to have a 16' Flute of some sort, too--something light, but with foundation, not too quinty--perfect for = playing things like "Kommst du Nun." On the Choir, I go for softer string type 16's like Dulcianas or = Gemshorns, because they work well as soft foundations and they work exceedingly well = with all the celestes all coupled together at 16, 8 and 4! (the way celestes = are intended to be played) Of course these are all my preferences... Monty Bennett Friendship Baptist Church Charlotte, NC  
(back) Subject: T.C.16s, mutations and cornets From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:50:35 -0700   Where there's a will, there's a way.   I keep pushing builders to examine the 19th century practice of making the bottom octave of 16's (and even 8's) resultant, but with INDEPENDENT quints so they can be tuned true ... that's only 12 pipes. Making them "monkey quints" on a common toe takes up more room, but it makes the resultant tone more effective.   At least ONE set of Nazard/Tierce or Cornet should be full-compass; otherwise you eliminate ALL the Tierce en taille pieces of the French baroque. In addition, the Nazard/Tierce/Cornet is needed to reinforce the Basse de Trompette combination.   Leave off some console gadgets and spend the money on PIPES.   Cheers,   Bud          
(back) Subject: Re: 16' Manual stops... From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:54:45 -0700       John Speller wrote:   > I agree with most of this, except that I would say that the No. 1 16' > flue stop to have on the Swell should be a 16' string -- a Willlis-style =   > Contra Gamba would be an excellent choice. Also, most Quintadenas are a =   > little hooty sounding, so for the Choir 16 ft. I would prefer a soft > Bourdon or even another string such as a Contra Dulciana. Quintadenas > are fine in theory, but don't make G. Donald Harrison's mistake of > thinking that theory can be necessarily translated into practice. IMHO > the number of successful Quintadenas that have ever been made can be > counted on the fingers of one hand. Mostly by Roosevelt and Johnson. > > John Speller >   True, but Bob Sipe made a LOVELY Holtzquintadena out of an old Felgemaker Melodia in St. Stephen's UMC, Mesquite, TX, so it CAN be done.   When I state a preference for certain stops, I'm assuming the BEST that our builders are capable of (grin) ... I imagine John Bishop HAS some Roosevelt and Johnson Quintadenas in his inventory of "experienced" pipes.   The ideal Quintadena, to my way of thinking, has just the slightest HINT of the quint sound.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: STraube and Bach From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:00:27 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I can't recall much about the Bach/Straube/Peeters edition which I sliced up to adorn a very long essay I wrote as a student!! (THOSE were the days of "cut and paste")   Whatever the edition, I always treat them as urtext and totally ignore all the markings....so how does the Straube edition differ notewise? If all the notes were the same, any other musical directions would have been completely wasted on me. This possibly explains why I cannot remeber them!   Perhaps the finest performer's edition of Bach I ever clasped hands upon, were the W T Best (Augner?) editions, which showed a wonderful understanding of Bach.....the phrasing was immaculate.   The edition I find best (I know some of the notes differ slightly) is the beautiful Widor hardback edition, which is so very clear and in which page turns seem more comfortable. I like it anyway.....   I'm off to hear the Schnitger at Zwolle next week.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Domitila Ballesteros <dballesteros@uol.com.br> wrote:   > Daniel, > > I'd like to thank you very much, because I didn't > know this possibility > (to hear music from radio program). > I'm hearing the 'Straube' edition right now.     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Marking From: "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:19:30 -0400   Since we seem to have taken a temporary turn for the gross, I'm from Arkansas originally but I live in Boston. I generally mark my territory with more natural fluids. (Let your imagination run rampant.)   David Baker   > Subject: RE: Southern directions > From: "Milo R. Shepherd" <mrstwin2@rubberandsteel.com> > Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:32:09 -0400 > > In Texas its BBQ pork, steak, beer and krylon spray paint (to mark your > property.    
(back) Subject: Re: T.C.16s, mutations and cornets From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:31:08 EDT   In a message dated 8/27/2004 4:48:16 PM Central Daylight Time, quilisma@cox.net writes:   Where there's a will, there's a way.   I keep pushing builders to examine the 19th century practice of making the bottom octave of 16's (and even 8's) resultant, but with INDEPENDENT quints so they can be tuned true ... that's only 12 pipes. Making them "monkey quints" on a common toe takes up more room, but it makes the resultant tone more effective.   At least ONE set of Nazard/Tierce or Cornet should be full-compass; otherwise you eliminate ALL the Tierce en taille pieces of the French baroque. In addition, the Nazard/Tierce/Cornet is needed to reinforce the Basse de Trompette combination.   Leave off some console gadgets and spend the money on PIPES.   Cheers,   Bud     I'll second that-I've played way too many organs with enough accessories = to control the space shuttle-but they are usually tonally poor. ___________________________________________________________________________= ___ _________ _______________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________ _______________________________ ________________ Gregory Francis Ceurvorst 1921 Sherman Avenue # GS Evanston, IL 60201 847.332.2788 home/fax 708.243.2549 mobile _Home Email: gfc234@aol.com_ (mailto:gfc234@aol.com) _Mobile Email: gfc234@nextel.blackberry.net_ (mailto:gfc234@nextel.blackberry.net)    
(back) Subject: 16' Manual stop choices From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:52:05 EDT   For the principal manual division, organbuilders have historically = opted for an open metal voice, such as a Diapason, although in certain eras, = such voices narrowed in scaling, moving toward the Double Geigen and Violone = variety. A decent Bourdon always adds appropriate weight, some builders opting for stoppered wood in the bass, with chimneyed canisters in the treble. The Quintadena debate has been rehashed too often. Unless you are Mrs. =   Richborn's child or Mrs. Schnitger's child, it might not turn out the way = you'd like it. And in large organs of the Hamburg school, the 16' Principal was frequently present before, and in addition to, the Quintadena. The problem = with almost all "modern" examples is that they are nothing more than tuned = asthma, with a lovely contraquint grittily confusing your choir, as well as making = a muddle of voice leading in contrapuntal work. Many a French and American organ sports a 16' Bourdon in the Swell; = many larger English organs had a 16' Diapason in the Swell with a stopped bass. = A 16' Viola or Gamba makes for a fine Swell double, but remember that when = the literature calls for the a 16' Swell stop, certain sonorities were = definitely in the mind of the composer. (That's the same reason that bland, cardboardy Violas and Gemshorns as Swell celestes fail so miserably in the French = literature. They are neither the sounds the composers had in mind, nor do they combine =   with the other stops to create the compound sonorities called for in the = scores). In recent decades, some of our finer builders have placed the 16' = Bourdon on the Positiv(e)(f) if that department has an 8' Principal. This gives it =   fighting-weight parity with the main manual division, and in expansive = schemes, finds itself alongside a 3-1/5' Grosse Tierce for the sub-cornet in = earlier French literature. (The 5-1/3' was extemely rare, and a late entry, historically. Remember, that pitch is boldly present in the 16' Bourdon). Short-compass 16' manual stops? Sure. They add gravity to the right = hand for hymn playing, and if one is on a budget, either in terms of space or funds, I think half is better than nothing. In Iberian organs, the two = halves of the organ often had slightly disparate specifications, and for valid = reasons. For middle-C 16s on the Great, a nice open stop with good treble = ascendency and lots of warmth fits the bill.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City http://www.glucknewyork.com/   ..