PipeChat Digest #4724 - Saturday, August 28, 2004
 
Groningen Holland......Lager than life
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: tenor C stops
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: remove please
  by "Bernadette Wagner" <musicalgrl90@yahoo.com>
The cost of the bass octave...
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: The cost of the bass octave...
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Estey Residence Organs
  by "Phil Stimmel" <pca@sover.net>
RE: Estey Residence Organs
  by "Milo R. Shepherd" <mrstwin2@rubberandsteel.com>
Estey 1906 Bartow FL Methodist Episcopal Church South / Mulberry FL Metho
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: STraube and Bach
  by "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br>
RE: Organ for my recital
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Groningen Holland......Lager than life
  by "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu>
What's with the bagpipes
  by "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net>
Re: What's with the bagpipes
  by "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>
Re: What's with the bagpipes
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: What's with the bagpipes
  by "Andrew Barss" <asbarss@eastlink.ca>
 

(back) Subject: Groningen Holland......Lager than life From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 14:58:54 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I have just enjoyed the most extraordinary day, hearing the most wonderfully restored Schnitger at the Martinikerk in Groningen.   Do you know, I was so IGNORANT of the historic region of Groningen, but considering that it is the far North of Holland, and my journey to-day has taken me around 350 miles from Rotterdam and back again, I have some excuse.   It isn't the fact that the region is rich in original/re-built or fully restored Schnitger instruments (both Arp and Frans Casper Schnitger) but the fact that some of the other instruments go back to the late Gothic period, and some are 19th follow-ons from the Schnitger/Groningen tradition...absolutely astonishing!   When I return home in the middle of the coming week, it will have been very much a Schnitger pilrimage this time, though I will be hearing St.Laurent's, Rotterdam (Marcussen) and I have already been to St.Bavo, Haarlem.   Hopefully, the Schnitger at Zwolle will be the highlight of this year's "Dutch Dash," but who knows,it may be a recital on a Batz organ which gets the top vote?   I will write more on my return.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK               _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush  
(back) Subject: Re: tenor C stops From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:22:48 -0700   Unless space AND money is EXTREMELY limited, I believe ALL stops should be full-compass, INCLUDING celestes. The effect of that last octave of celeste coupled to the pedal is worth it.   It's absolutely ESSENTIAL if there is only ONE Nazard and Tierce, or you eliminate ANYTHING in the French baroque literature that goes below tenor c with a tierce en taille or Cornet registration.   In small organs, it makes sense to make a second full-compass 16' stop duplexed to the Pedal as an alternative to the ubiquitous Pedal Bourdon. There are a few builders who can build a single 16' Pedal stop to fit under everything, but they ARE few and far between.   One such organ is the three-manual Fritts-Richards in All Souls' Episcopal Church. The two 16' Pedal stops are 16' Prestant and 16' Posaune. EITHER will fit under just about ANYTHING, while still making their presence felt. There IS a 16' manual Bourdon that can be coupled down, but I never found it necessary to do so. That 16' Prestant was a WONDER.   Sebastian Gluck revived the practice of making the bottom octave of a soft 16' as free reeds in his small chapel organ, which is another viable solution to the problems of space and money.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: remove please From: "Bernadette Wagner" <musicalgrl90@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:41:26 -0700 (PDT)   Only 50?!?!? Hunny, try 247 per day. AND THAT IS WITHOUT JUNK MAIL!   ComposerTX@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 08/28/2004 12:50:21 PM Central = Daylight Time, octaaf@charter.net writes: And why IS that, Danny? If you have no sense of humor, are intolerant of = others views, know everything there is to know about pipe organs and music = ... by all means, do unsubscribe. You can do that be sending a blank = email message to pipechat-off@pipechat.orgYou know, there could be other = reasons one would unsubscribe, ones other than the ones you defensively = proffered - like not enjoying wading through 50 e-mails a day. Danny     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
(back) Subject: The cost of the bass octave... From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 18:50:15 EDT   Many folks are reluctant to spring for the bass octave of an 8' undulating rank ("celestes", as Americans call them) because it represents = a third of the cost of a full 8' rank. And for some reason, they'd rather have = several sets of incomplete ones than one or two full-compass ones. The illusion of = a bigger instrument gets in the way of logic. In a similar vein, was recently assured by a degreed organist who had worked for an organ company for many years that "all Sesquialteras stop at = Tenor C." I was appalled. They had obviously not seen anything outside a mid- or =   low-budget American organ from the middle of the last century. The plague of mutations that run down to C13 tore across this nation = for decades, mostly in organs that were NOT starved for space and were NOT = limited in their design by budget. It was a fad based upon the proclamation that = "not enough literature went that low," or some such thing. I suppose that if = all you wish to play are choral preludes with soli in the right hand, that's = fine. But a bit of study reveals that in MOST organ cultures of MOST eras, there =   were third-sounding ranks throughout pipe organs -- tierce mixtures, = cornets of all kinds, and mutations that ran the full compass. Yes, even as late as the mid-1880s, we find Cavaille-Coll taking the = Voix Celeste at Saint Etienne Abbey only to C13. But it might be worth it, = while one is actually engaged in the act of building a pipe organ, to complete = the set. Organists who fuss about "requiring" three or four "celestes" (look = up what it means) to get through a simple service, but somehow don't require any = one of them to be complete or couplable to the pedal, leave a few people scratching their heads. Granted, organists and consultants may insist on Dolcans or Gemshorns, =   incomplete compasses, and sacrificing more necessary voices for the sake = of these incomplete effects. There isn't much a builder can do about that if = they are told that they will NOT get the job if they don't give in. Still, if one = is raising funds for a mid- to large-sized pipe organ, it is a very small percentage of the whole to build complete ranks before adding the = luxuries.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City http://www.glucknewyork.com/ ..  
(back) Subject: Re: The cost of the bass octave... From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 16:07:18 -0700       TubaMagna@aol.com wrote:   (ENORMOUS snip, all of which I agree with) (grin)   >Granted, organists and consultants may insist on Dolcans or Gemshorns, > incomplete compasses, and sacrificing more necessary voices for the sake = of > these incomplete effects. There isn't much a builder can do about that = if they are > told that they will NOT get the job if they don't give in. Still, if one = is > raising funds for a mid- to large-sized pipe organ, it is a very small > percentage of the whole to build complete ranks before adding the = luxuries. > > Sebastian M. Gluck > New York City > http://www.glucknewyork.com/ > . >   I have to stand up for a properly voiced and scaled Gemshorn, at least for the Anglican service IF you have to accompany the Chant. Of course, voicing and scaling is EVERYTHING, as it is with any OTHER stop (grin).   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Estey Residence Organs From: "Phil Stimmel" <pca@sover.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:04:35 -0400   I have just uploaded a number of new photos of Estey residence organs. (http://www.esteyorgan.com/residence1.html) I'd appreciate it if anyone can identify where they are/were located. = These new photos are from a booklet published by the Estey Company to promote = the purchase of their organs for the home.   Phil Stimmel   The Estey Pipe Organ www.esteyorgan.com      
(back) Subject: RE: Estey Residence Organs From: "Milo R. Shepherd" <mrstwin2@rubberandsteel.com> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:34:00 -0400   #11 was on a This Old House episode. I remember them showing it specifically because there was an organ in the house. I recognize the = wood work around the pipes also. The only change is the console has been = changed out. Unfortunately that is all I know about it. I can't remember where = in MA it was.   Wish I could help out more.   Milo   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Phil Stimmel Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 7:05 PM To: PipeChat Cc: OrganChat; PIPEORG-L Subject: Estey Residence Organs     I have just uploaded a number of new photos of Estey residence organs. (http://www.esteyorgan.com/residence1.html) I'd appreciate it if anyone can identify where they are/were located. = These new photos are from a booklet published by the Estey Company to promote = the purchase of their organs for the home.   Phil Stimmel   The Estey Pipe Organ www.esteyorgan.com       ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>        
(back) Subject: Estey 1906 Bartow FL Methodist Episcopal Church South / Mulberry FL Methodist Church From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:07:19 -0700   I played this organ (grin). It was the very first pipe organ I played, at about age nine. My mother sang in the choir at Mulberry Methodist = Church.   The Bartow Methodists gave the Estey to the Mulberry Methodists (next town over to the west) sometime around WWII when they were given the 2m Aeolian out of Edward Bok's residence in Lake Wales (next town over to the east). Bok built the Bok Tower Carillon and Gardens in memory of his wife.   The Estey served the Mulberry Methodists until they built a new church in the late 1950s-early 1960s. It was replaced by a four-rank unit organ, one of the last built by the Florida remnant of the Skinner Organ Co. The "Florida Skinners" also built or rebuilt organs for All Saints' Episcopal Church and St. David's Episcopal Church in Lakeland, FL.   I don't know what happened to the Mulberry Estey after that.   The stoplist was:   Swell   8' Stopped Diapason 8' Salicional 4' Harmonic Flute   Tremulant   Great   8' Open Diapason 8' Dulciana 4' Octave   Sw/Gt Sw/Gt 8va   Pedal   16' Bourdon   Sw/Ped Gt/Ped   The feeders had been removed at some point, and a smaller modern reservoir substituted, but the slot for the hand pump and the tell-tale were still there. I don't remember a bellows signal, though. The action was tubular pneumatic; the couplers tended to cypher in cold weather. The Gt. 8' Open was the facade; the Pedal Bourdon formed the sides of the case.   A hurricane took down the steeple of the Bartow Methodist Church and took the roof off the north transept, where the main section of the Aeolian was located. I was in high school, so that was some time in the 1950s. It was dried out and some repairs were made, but it never worked right after that.   It was sold to a hobbyist when the church bought a used McManis unit organ sometime in the 1960s (?). The hobbyist died; it later turned up rotting in a barn, and was salvaged by an enthusiast who hoped to have it restored and installed in the Visitors' Center at Bok Tower Gardens. Somehow he located me ... I was one of the last people to play the Aeolian in its Bartow home ... but I never heard any more about his = project.   The Aeolian stop-list was:   Swell and Great (duplexed)   8' Diapason 8' Vibrato Diapason (a BIG ol' celeste) 8' Flute F 8' String F 8' String MP 8' Vibrato String MP 8' Flute P 8' String P 4' High Flute 8' Trumpet 8' Oboe 8' Vox Humana   Harp Chimes   Tremulant   Choir (floating, by means of a three-position lever)   16' Bass Vox Humana 8' Tenor Vox Humana 8' Alto Vox Humana 8' Choir Vox Humana 4' Soprano Vox Humana   These were all separate ranks, enclosed with the Echo   Echo (floating, by means of a series of push-buttons)   8' Flute 8' Vibrato Flute 8' Dulciana 8' Vibrato Dulciana 8' Vox Humana   Tremulant   Pedal   16' Deep Flute F 16' Deep String 16' Deep Flute P   The console was elaborately carved, with a fold-down foot-rest that lowered onto the pedals for when the player was in use. The player had been removed, though. There were three blind mechanical pistons for each manual, P, MF, and F, swell shoes to Main and Echo, and a crescendo pedal (called "Tonal").   The sound was elegant, but somewhat muffled, as the Main was REALLY shoe-horned into the chamber. The basses of the Pedal stops extended down into the sacristy below the chamber, so they weren't very effective.   The other interesting organ in Bartow was a Hope-Jones CHURCH organ in First Presbyterian. I have no idea where it came from, or where it went. It was replaced by a Schantz some years ago. It wasn't a very nice organ .... the sound was coarse and harsh. I think it was something like Diapason, Salicional, Flute, Dulciana, and Oboe Horn, unified over two manuals and pedals. I didn't play it that often. There might have been a celeste ... I don't remember now.   St. David's Episcopal Church in Lakeland had a big 2m/pedal Estey reed organ, which they gave to the organist, Mary Smith (my piano teacher) when they got an early Allen. She in turn gave it to an Episcopal mission somewhere, but I don't remember where. It was FUN to play, very responsive, and LOUD (chuckle).   I have to wonder if some of those residence organ photos aren't of big pipe-top reed organs ... I wonder whatever happened to that THREE-manual pipetop shown in the Estey catalog.   Cheers,   Bud Clark San Diego CA   Phil Stimmel wrote:   > I have just uploaded a number of new photos of Estey residence organs. > (http://www.esteyorgan.com/residence1.html) > I'd appreciate it if anyone can identify where they are/were located. = These > new photos are from a booklet published by the Estey Company to promote = the > purchase of their organs for the home. > > Phil Stimmel > > The Estey Pipe Organ > www.esteyorgan.com > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: STraube and Bach From: "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:12:13 -0300   Hello, 'bgsx'   Thank you for your message. I found in Sheetmusicplus that I've been searching. Thank you again. Domitila   bgsx wrote:   > >> If it is possible, do you can to ask your mother, what is the Peters >> number (the code) of this score? I was the Peters online but I >> couldn't to find this edition. > > > you could try http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/ > > At the left, it says Search, Choose from the Menu First > Select "composer", type in: straube bach ... click Go > > Maybe you will see what you want. > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >        
(back) Subject: RE: Organ for my recital From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:57:33 -0500   Could we see a preview of the program?   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com        
(back) Subject: Re: Groningen Holland......Lager than life From: "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:04:04 -0400   I loved this post!!   I went to Groningen in June 2003, and was absolutely amazed by the Schnitger organ there! Colin is right -- it's beautiful. I was not fortunate enough to play it; I've heard the Dutch charge people quite a bit of money to play it. However, I would, someday, love to have the chance to play it, even for a short time. I have a poster of Martinikerk Schnitger that usually hangs on my bedroom door (it's packed right now, for our return to Mother Faire Westminster tomorrow morning).   At the end of the same trip, I spent a night in Haarlem, in a hotel right across from St. Bavo. The church was under construction, or something, but we snuck in to just look at the organ. The construction workers started yelling at us in Dutch, but we pretended to be dumb Americans. ;)   Some of the other Schnitgers in Northern Germany are certainly worth a trip to. I suggest Cappel, Stade, and Norden, although I do love the one in Dedesdorf too!   Thanks again, Colin :)   Shelley   >>> cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk 08/28/04 5:58 PM >>> Hello,   I have just enjoyed the most extraordinary day, hearing the most wonderfully restored Schnitger at the Martinikerk in Groningen.   Do you know, I was so IGNORANT of the historic region of Groningen, but considering that it is the far North of Holland, and my journey to-day has taken me around 350 miles from Rotterdam and back again, I have some excuse.   It isn't the fact that the region is rich in original/re-built or fully restored Schnitger instruments (both Arp and Frans Casper Schnitger) but the fact that some of the other instruments go back to the late Gothic period, and some are 19th follow-ons from the Schnitger/Groningen tradition...absolutely astonishing!   When I return home in the middle of the coming week, it will have been very much a Schnitger pilrimage this time, though I will be hearing St.Laurent's, Rotterdam (Marcussen) and I have already been to St.Bavo, Haarlem.   Hopefully, the Schnitger at Zwolle will be the highlight of this year's "Dutch Dash," but who knows,it may be a recital on a Batz organ which gets the top vote?   I will write more on my return.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK               _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>      
(back) Subject: What's with the bagpipes From: "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 20:39:21 -0400   Today, and several times throughout this summer for the first time, I've had to contend with a bagpiper at weddings.   Is anyone else experiencing an upswing in this? This afternoon, the piper processed immediately before the bride on the way in and on the way out. He stood there on the end, like he was the seventh bridesmaid. (I'm serious, on their side and throughout the entire wedding.) In the case of today, the drones were mis-tuned and the ornamentation sloppy and off. Upon consultation, there was no Scottish heritage on either side, and the bagpiper was hired.   I guess this is in the same spirit which allows brides to play tracks from their favorite pop CD's at key points in the service, a spirit otherwise known as "It's your, day, Muffy, you get whatever you want." I'm thinking of putting my foot down pretty firmly about this, but I'd like other perspectives.   To me, the bagpipes were an assault... it was jarring and relentless, even if it hadn't been out of tune. I was analyzing my reaction to this, and I just tend to think of bagpipes as associated with battle and death as opposed to weddings and worship. Weren't they sent out before the troops to rattle the hearts of the enemy? It sure worked on me today.   Even if it's just a matter of taste, I tend to think of myself as the arbiter of musical taste when it comes to weddings on which I've consulted and at which I'm playing. Is this also out-of-date now?   Chuck Peery (formerly Cincinnati, now St. Louis)        
(back) Subject: Re: What's with the bagpipes From: "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:52:22 -0400   Chuck:   There is nothing worse than bagpipes played indoors. They're an outdoor instrument.   I had to contend with it once, didn't find out about it till the piper = showed up. He was gracious though. He played the extended prelude outside while I = played the organ inside. Different pieces, of course. I stationed him far far away = from the sanctuary, but still near enough for the people entering the building to = be serenaded, which I assume is what the bride had in mind.   I couldn't hear him, and he couldn't hear me. Worked out perfectly.   But for a procession and recession INSIDE the sanctuary? Bleah. The = instrument is too loud, and doesn't have enough fundamental in the sound to be = pleasing to the ear.   -Shirley     On 28 Aug 2004 at 20:39, Charles Peery expounded:   > Today, and several times throughout this summer for the first time, > I've had to contend with a bagpiper at weddings.      
(back) Subject: Re: What's with the bagpipes From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:24:50 -0400   on 8/28/04 8:39 PM, Charles Peery at cepeery@earthlink.net wrote:   > I was analyzing my reaction to > this, and I just tend to think of bagpipes as associated with battle > and death as opposed to weddings and worship. Weren't they sent out > before the troops to rattle the hearts of the enemy?   I think maybe it's to help the groom get his courage up.   But you make a good point. Bagpipes are for war and grief. Though I can recall the fantastic thrill of hearing the Coldstream Guards, I think they were called, performing in about 1962. An entire band of bagpipes. Quite something.   Sorry I didn't met you when you were in Cincinnati. What drew you to St. Louis?     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: Re: What's with the bagpipes From: "Andrew Barss" <asbarss@eastlink.ca> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 00:40:43 -0300     On Saturday, August 28, 2004, at 10:52 PM, Shirley wrote:   > Chuck: > > There is nothing worse than bagpipes played indoors. They're an > outdoor > instrument.   Being from a part of the world with an immense cultural tie to Scotland, we certainly have our fair share of bagpipe music around here. I think you'd be hard-pressed to spend a summer day in downtown Halifax without hearing at least on piper somewhere along the way -- and I'm not exaggerating!   That "over-exposure" tends, I suppose, to leave one taking bagpipes for granted and becoming, perhaps, a bit jaded about them. I, for one, agree with Shirley's comment. Bagpipes are definitely an outdoor instrument. In my experience they are best listened to from a distance -- I usually find about 10 - 15 miles is good. ;-)   Bringing this back on-topic, I was a guest at a wedding a few years ago in a small university chapel here in Halifax with a tiny, but very pretty, Casavant organ (six ranks used very efficiently). The family had hired a piper who, unfortunately, decided to begin his "serenade" immediately outside the door of the chapel and began playing the instant the newly-married couple's feet hit the doorstep on their way out. As a result, it was effectively impossible to hear the rest of the organ recessional and the entire process of exiting the church turned into a cacophony of sound as the bagpipes and the organ battled is out, sonically speaking.   Regards, Andrew Barss Halifax, Nova Scotia