PipeChat Digest #4951 - Thursday, December 2, 2004
 
Re: Being around suitable pipe organs WAS advet of interest
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: organs on the coast
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
an advert of interest
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
Re: organs on the coast
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: organs on the coast
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: Grains of Rice for Speakers
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: Alkmaar wind pressures
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
RE: The Organist's Ball.
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: organ-builders and scholarship
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Alkmaar wind pressures
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: organs on the coast
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: The Organist's Ball.
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Being around suitable pipe organs WAS advet of interest From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 21:13:05 -0800 (PST)   Yes, M/O are leading the way with sampled organs. But, not to put others = out of business. Their CD with the Willan setting of Vulpius shows the = dramatic build of registration that the instrument has to offer. Let me tell what happened to bring this about. Today, was a very busy day of making audition recordings for school. The = only place I had easy access to was a digital installation at a local = church. The organ on which I study is in a busy sanctuary and my teacher = had it most of the day as well his boss. So, humbly, I went to the digital = instrument. Sitting in the room, with glorious acoustics, is wonderful. A room of = Byzantine style where Mother Theresa of Calcutta founded her first order = of nuns in the USA. Went to the organ, started doing things...and it hit = me. You know...that..."WT***" look. So, the look changed and emotion to = "ok let's see here". After about 10 minutes The look/emotion changed to = "Oh nnnnooo hunny!" So...thinking...:"cant do any better...deadlines to meet" and proceeded = to record. Has anyone on the list ever had a church job where there organ was just a = hodgepodge of old organs that were eant for rooms many times the size? Has = anyone ever worked where the organ was tonally inadequate to the point = where you wanted to use the piano, or ANY other organ you played sounded = better?. One is easily captivated by gadgetry when your 15 ranks are from = Johnson, Reuter, Weickhart, Delle, and a supply house in Wisconsin, and on = old chests. The console would take us back to a conversation last week. = (That was a conversation regarding stop nomenclature and the credibility = of some texts). One present situation has an....adaquate...console with = generals and toes studs, at least a 16' reed and some nice strings that = melt a soul. Desiree' RMB10@aol.com wrote: >M and O organs are nice. >BUT after recently gaining access to two suitable organs, one 23 ranks = (at b work), and the >other over 100 ranks (where I have lessons), pipes are unbeatable. Digitals are not bad if >you put pipe with them. I think my = previous situation was just one where anything would >have sounded better. >Go custom if you want digital of any kind, but look at pipes first. >Desiree'   After having played played Trinity Wall Street for myself, "nice" hardly = is an apt description of the organ--well, really, the two organs. = Frighteningly realistic is more like it!   I feel that pipes should be the first option, but circumstances sometimes preclude the inclusion of a pipe organ and digitals end up being the = option at times. I would guess that while trained musicians want the "presence" and "life" pipes have, that digitals have not quite yet captured (although = they are getting close!), congregations want pipes because they are pretty or they = are prestigious or some other non musical reason. While the stock-model = digital companies have jumped to accomodate the public's wishes, I'm sure that = they probably feel (rightfully so) that their products don't need pipes to be = successful. The "boutique" digital companies will do combo jobs, too, but in a = different way. They seem to do either all custom digitals or AUGMENT pipe organs = with a few digitals stops--a few solo stops, a couple of 32's, etc., rather = than the way a digital organ is augmented with a few ranks of pipes.   I find it interesting that you changed your tune, though, concerning your last church. You wouldn't consider pipes at all, and even with the digital = organ you were going to get, you didn't even want the pipes connected to it. = This is why it was said a couple of days ago that it is the organist who wants = all the gadgets and lights and "stuff" on the console and is attracted by the superficial aspects of what the instrument has to offer.   So, yes, everyone should look into pipes first--they are the benchmark by which everything else is measured.   Monty Bennett   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe:     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
(back) Subject: Re: organs on the coast From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 13:50:17 +0800   Would that be the "salt-resistant" organ made by Stefan Maier, Athol, MA fo= r the 128' sloop Antonisa? [Ref: pp. 255 All the Stops, C. R. Whitney.]   It was the first mention I had ever heard of such a thing. --- Well, there = are some terms so that you can Google it.     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>   > Anyone remember that little tracker in the back of TAO maybe 2 years ago > (ish) that was installed in a large sailboat? Anyone know how its doing? > It was a tracker but with a few electric action offset bases. > Andy >=20 > A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service > PO Box 111 > Burlington, VT 05402 > (802)578-3936 > Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: an advert of interest From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 01:00:09 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)   Hello again, list.=0D Firstly, this whole issue of my using the word "advert" is absolutely sil= ly.=0D Secondly, this whole conversation about advertising ethics has inspired m= e with some ideas for how to deal with the punches. Perhaps builders shou= ld start giving discounts to Churches that replace electronics with their pi= pe organs. Perhaps there should be a foundation that offers matching grants = to any Church replacing an electronic with a pipe organ. Perhaps that same foundation should create training compact discs to instruct the everyday Churchgoer in how to pick off an electronic with a blindfold on. Would th= ese things be ethical? Of course not. Would the person who enacted such practices be invited to an electronic organ company Christmas dinner? No= t likely.=0D So what happened to highlighting the advantages and features of one's product?=0D The advert in question definitely paints with a broad brush, as it succee= ds in including every pipe organ imaginable within its scope, with the exception of maybe, Atlantic City or West Point, etc... With that level o= f inclusion, there is a danger if only half of the story is told, seeing as there are thousands of successful organs out there that give reliable and reasonably affordable service.=0D I also see that the advert implies that the digital choice is the sensib= le one? Does that make the pipe organ the stupid choice?=0D Let us examine the portion that concerns a certain concert hall that char= ges $6,000 fees to support the organ. If we recognize that an advert does not force anyone to purchase anything, what if a group of people decide to negotiate the contract for a new digital organ having viewed this ad? Wil= l they then be told the name of the concert hall? Will they be filled in on the circumstances regarding this fee from an impartial perspective? If no= t, this is nothing but a gratuitous stab at the pipe organ builders. If we w= ant to deal in facts, let's deal with them.=0D The problem is that people are indeed easily swayed by what they see and hear. Many people, not through any fault of their own, do not have the sa= me sensitivities and knowledge as pipe organ people do. This has been proven time and time again as hundreds of pipe organs have been lost, destroyed, hopelessly slaughtered through unsympathetic modifications, or even had their pipes smashed by speaker cabinets. Is this because the owners were awful people? Certainly not. They likely put their trust (and organ) into someone's hands, only to learn of the damage done at some point in the future, when the only legacy is a messed up organ. We could sit at the sideline and say they got what they deserved because they were foolish, b= ut what does that say about us as organ people? I honestly believe we have a large stake in the future of the pipe organ beyond our day to day operati= ons If we start losing organs left and right, and allow ourselves to be subj= ect to increased attack in the major organ publications, we're in trouble - ESPECIALLY those builders who have a significant investment in the indust= ry, with expensive and sometimes priceless equipment, materials, and overhead= , cranking these new instruments out from scratch - not to mention the historical value of some of our oldest firms. The Church building boom h= as come and gone, and builders have to walk the tight rope on every contract= , and a non-payment or other loss could kill a company off in short order. They simply can not afford to take any hits! I've had the pleasure of meeting a lot of builders, and I have to tell you, I've never met one I d= idn t like. They have all been very open and helpful to me, with the tricks o= f the trade, and just basic respect for me, even though I am the lowest guy= in the organ building food chain. I enjoy maintaining and preserving their h= ard work, and look forward to more of them as they come.=0D *** Although they'd better watch out because I just finished my chest act= ion prototype this evening! (C; (C; (C; ***=0D But I digress...=0D This all ties back into what I said earlier about our being good ambassad= ors for the instrument. I love the pipe organ very much, and I hurt terribly when I experience undeserved crap being laid on it, whether someone hates= an organ because it is too this or that, or doesn't have enough pistons, whatever. I believe there is wisdom in keeping a pipe organ wherever and whenever possible. I have a pair of "mini-mollers" that I look after that have had nothing but tuning since the day they were installed in the 1920= 's (and they never really get out of tune!). The organ at my Church has 106 year old leather on the Great, and 60 year old leather on the Choir, both being some of the earliest side-valve pitman chests in existence. I'm sur= e there are plenty of trackers that have been coaxed into the triple digits with virtual neglect!=0D If pipe organs can indeed be affordable and rewarding to own, as I believ= e they are, why advertise only half of the story? If one must accentuate th= e negative and eliminate the positive in an advert, why not disclose these things when the new digital is being negotiated? Or better yet, why not stick to the old fashioned way, friendly competition?=0D Do you want to know what really scares me? What if a builder, electronic= or not, had no problem with ripping out a Toledo Holy Rosary Skinner, a St. Suplice, or that Davis & Ferris organ in Round Lake, NY? Do you not thin= k some builder would do it? It's already happened many times to many organ= s.=20 Am I an "armchair alarmist"? Perhaps. Even so, I believe that I have a = dog in this fight too, because I love the organ, plus I'd like to eat 30 year= s from now (if you meet me you'll know why! (C:)=0D END OF RANT=0D Best,=0D Nate
(back) Subject: Re: organs on the coast From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 14:00:39 +0800   Holland, a country half-reclaimed from the North Sea, is home to many fine = specimens of pipes and a fair portion of the E-organ manufacturing. Petro-c= hem is also big over there. What are they doing right?   ----- Original Message ----- From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>   >=20 > Hello, Bud: >=20 > I sold a fine three-manual 41-stop Saville in 1967 (Series-II > technology) to a church on the Gulf Coast. The primary industry > in that town was refining petroleum, and making a zillion other > chemical products. >=20 > The atmosphere was so caustic that I could clean the mess off the > contacts so everything worked well. In two to four weeks, I had > to repeat the process again, and invested a zillion $$$ in service > to make it as good as it could be. I kept that organ propped up > until > I took a job in west Texas 10 years later and had to stop > servicing it. > The warranty was done, and I had to abandon it. The church hired > other service techs, but they finally dumped the organ. >=20 > Salt air is bad. Chemically laden salt air is terrible. > Wood products will suddenly dry out and warp, bow, > and distort, then swell again when the salt air returns. >=20 > I have often thought that organs were invented for > climates other than the seashore, . . . .seashores > flourishing with chemical plants. >=20 > F. Richard Burt >=20 > Bud wrote; >=20 > > The somewhat strange combination of salt air . . . >=20 > > Recently there was a large custom 3m Allen > > (designed by Phelps) on the market locally. It was > > built in the 1980s. . . . . >=20 > > In fairness, pipe organs don't fare much better. . . . >=20 > > I'd be interested to hear organ-builders' takes on > > organ maintenance in coastal areas ... I know NYC > > is notorious, but I understand that to be > > primarily air pollution.   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: organs on the coast From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 01:10:17 -0500   Yep!! That's the one! Now that's the ultimate in getting close to sea water! Of course, all SORTS of things were done to help the organ cope = with the salt air, there are no reeds, its (almost completely) a tracker, etc. =   If I have time I may do a little searching on that. Andy   On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 13:50:17 +0800, Jan Nijhuis wrote > Would that be the "salt-resistant" organ made by Stefan Maier, Athol, > MA for the 128' sloop Antonisa? [Ref: pp. 255 All the Stops, C. R. Whitney.] > > It was the first mention I had ever heard of such a thing. --- Well, > there are some terms so that you can Google it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> > > > Anyone remember that little tracker in the back of TAO maybe 2 years = ago > > (ish) that was installed in a large sailboat? Anyone know how its = doing? > > It was a tracker but with a few electric action offset bases. > > Andy > >   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Grains of Rice for Speakers From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 15:07:11 +0800   Hopefully pianists would want an action that didn't "stop on a dime." ABS is an acronym for Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene --- doesn't quite rol= l of the tongue like Anti-lock brakes. Better or worse than the CBS era Steinways with Teflon bushings?   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> >=20 > ABS 'used' to mean 'Anti-lock Braking Sysytems' - well, it did, to=20 > me - and most car brochures and adverts I've ever read. >=20 > But I can be wrong (on occasions). >=20 > Harry Grove > (a.k.a. a musicman delighted that pianists can now be brought to a=20 > sudden halt)     -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: Alkmaar wind pressures From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 15:15:30 +0800   Well, almost exactly 2.992126"; almost, but not exactly, 3" How do they regulate it to the sixth decimal place? :-)   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Alkmaar wind pressures Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:49:27 -0800 (PST)   >=20 > Hello, >=20 > I have been able to confirm via Dutch friends, that > the wind pressure of the whole instrument at > St.Laurens, Alkmaar (Hagabeer/F C Schnitger) is, as I > suspected, exactly 76mm....more or less the national > standard in Holland for organs of the period. >=20 > That's almost exactly 3" wg. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Colin Mitchell UK   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: RE: The Organist's Ball. From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:53:27 -0000   He certainly was! And he brought with him his friends Mr. and Mrs. = Pneumatic and their daughter Electra Pneumatic!   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of = Alan Freed Sent: 02 December 2004 00:00 To: PipeChat Subject: Re: The Organist's Ball.   On 12/1/04 4:59 PM, "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> wrote:   > your entries for the attendants at the "Organist's Ball"   Was Prince Ipple there?   Alan     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Re: organ-builders and scholarship From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 01:35:55 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Bud is quite right, of course, but I was thinking more in terms of academia rather than a study of organ-building.   I can think of a number of UK organ-builders such as Mark Venning of Harrison & Harrison with an FRCO, and the organ builder Geoffrey Coffin MA.,FRCO, who was once the sub at York Minster.   However, there have been great organ-builders who could barely play a note, and probably knew little about music.   My point was simply that the two fields are not always bedfellows.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- Liquescent <quilisma@cox.net> wrote: > Oh, DEAR! I would think it WOULD be ... the GOOD > ones know what you're > talking about when you say you want the "quatre > fonds" on each manual > division; what's more, they know WHY you want it. > There are several first-rate builders in the US who > are also excellent > organists ...     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page =96 Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Alkmaar wind pressures From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 01:38:40 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   That is an excellent question, which is of course related to the "secret" of the grass lawns of King's College, Cambridge.   It took about 500 years!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- Jan Nijhuis <nijhuis@email.com> wrote:   > Well, almost exactly 2.992126"; almost, but not > exactly, 3" > How do they regulate it to the sixth decimal place? > :-) >       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Re: organs on the coast From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 01:56:46 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   They do most things right in Holland.....still a very industrial AND agricultural country.   The petro-chemical industry in Holland is entirely restricted to the area West of Rotterdam.   I took my young friend Shaun to see the refineries in August, during darkness, when the lights and the flames are at their most spectacular. There was not a single smell!   That's what the Dutch do so well....look after the environment.   The bit about salt-water is very interesting, and I can think of literally dozens of important and/or historic European organs at the seaside......Hamburg, Lubeck, Rotterdam....even the Bavo Orgel is only 8 miles from the coast.   Yes, I can understand corrosion of electrical parts and contacts, but the wood I have come across seems to be very stable. Could the problem be more to do with fluctuating humidity?   I recall going to a harpsichord manufacturer....was it Zuckerman......somewhere in the NE of the US and not a zillion miles from Boston or Nantucket. My eyes almost popped out when I saw the thin soundboards looking like erupting volcanoes with the humidity.   "They'll straighten out when it dries," the confident craftsman suggested.   We just don't have that problem in Europe.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- Jan Nijhuis <nijhuis@email.com> wrote:   > Holland, a country half-reclaimed from the North > Sea, is home to many fine specimens of pipes and a > fair portion of the E-organ manufacturing. > Petro-chem is also big over there. What are they > doing right?       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Re: The Organist's Ball. From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 09:59:25 -0000   Entries for the attendants at the "Organist's Ball"   Was Prince Ipple there?   He certainly was! And he brought with him his friends Mr. and Mrs. = Pneumatic and their daughter Electra Pneumatic!   "I believe I saw her out in the garden, in the chill of the evening, = talking to the daughter of my old pal, 'Hat-pegs'.   You know, Chap; Pal Hat-pegs" ................ (keep working at it, it'll come).   Otherwise, go straight to Mornington Crescent.   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a musicman - but obviously no comedian] __________________________________________   "Nothing separates the generations more than music. By the time a child is =   eight or nine, he has developed a passion for his own music that is even stronger than his passions for procrastination and weird clothes." Bill Cosby