PipeChat Digest #4980 - Wednesday, December 8, 2004
 
Re: Meeting Interesting people
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Concertato
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: Go Tell It on the Mountain
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Concertato
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Concertato
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
RE: funeral homes
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
RE: Meeting Interesting people
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: Unit Organs
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4979 - 12/08/04
  by "Staffan Thuringer" <staffan_thuringer@yahoo.com.au>
Re: NIGHT OF MIRACLES
  by "Staffan Thuringer" <staffan_thuringer@yahoo.com.au>
RE: Weird request
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
RE: PipeChat Digest #4979 - 12/08/04
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
Re: Unit Organs
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Unit Organs
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: Unit Organs
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Clever small tracker stoplist by Bedient
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: Meeting Interesting people
  by "Stephen Best" <stevebest@usadatanet.net>
Re: Unit Organs
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: Weird request
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4979 - 12/08/04
  by "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Meeting Interesting people From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:21:48 -0800 (PST)       Colin Mitchell <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: I've always been very friendly to ANYONE who expresses an interest in the organ, and it was rather nice when a student of about 25, who is exceptional academically and heading for a fine Doctorate qualification, said to me, "I think I would have given up but for you. You were the one who actually took an interest and encouraged me."   I currently have a situation similar to the above with a friend/mentor = from the list. There should be more people like this. Emily Adams mentioned that we organists are harder on each other than = anyone else. That's very true. Another thing he (the person I met) mentioned is why do some organists put = a value of ones talent on WHAT they play rather than HOW they play? For = example, is an organist who plays the Bach G Minor Prelude and Fugue (535 = I believe) of less worthiness than someone who plays the "Wedge"? While = they are two pieces of different levels, we got to talking about why some = players use this as criteria to judge a players worth. Yes, someone who = can play the more difficult works will be able to get to more = competitions, etc . However, does that make the person playing the works = of a lesser scale a bad player? We really had a good time talking and looking at organ music, and I got to = share with him the first half of this concertato I'm writing for the = weekend. Maybe we can encourage him to study organ. TDH   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
(back) Subject: Re: Concertato From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:45:46 -0500   What is a concertato?   This is a new term to me!   Bob Conway     At 02:21 PM 12/8/2004, Desiree wrote:   >We really had a good time talking and looking at organ music, and I got = to >share with him the first half of this concertato I'm writing for the >weekend. Maybe we can encourage him to study organ.      
(back) Subject: Re: Go Tell It on the Mountain From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 14:45:43 EST   All right let's shout it out from the mountain top. One of my recent CD purchases from OHS is Organa Antiqua Bohemica LBCD 71/74 and LBCD 75/76. If you really want a learning experience in registration, wonderful recital pieces, organs with beautiful blooming Principals, Live accoustrics, and a set of CD's you'll never get tired of listening to. or to give as gifts for Christmas. These are not to be missed and I picked them off the bargain table for peanuts. Even people = professing to actually hate organ music will fall in love with these. The = temperments range from short octave 1/4 comma meantone to well temper to nearly equal. Since the smaller organs had no reeds for various reasons tierce mixtures abound giving a reedy clang. The repetoire ranges all periods including the 20th Century. It's a more laid back type of organ playing and very enjoyable to listen too. You will definately come away from the music with new ideas (good ideas). Take it from me you'll never want to part with them . The flues are voiced a bit slower than we are used to, but hey they are more beautiful too. Quickened Pricipals are hard sounding in dead rooms. Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Concertato From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:51:16 -0600   Hi! In my experience, a concertato is usually an "elaboration" on a particular hymntune for congregational singing and choir. It often includes a special intro, harmonizations, choir stanza(s), instrumental parts, etc. There are tons of them written by such American composers as Hal Hopson, Michael Burkhardt, David Cherwien, etc.   They are especially used in the Lutheran Tradition for what is often called the "Hymn of the Day"   Blessings, Beau Surratt Director of Music and Organist First United Lutheran Church, ELCA 6705 Hohman Ave. Hammond, IN 46324     -----Original Message----- From: Bob Conway <conwayb@sympatico.ca> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:45:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Concertato   > What is a concertato? > > This is a new term to me! > > Bob Conway > > > At 02:21 PM 12/8/2004, Desiree wrote: > > >We really had a good time talking and looking at organ music, and I > got to > >share with him the first half of this concertato I'm writing for the > >weekend. Maybe we can encourage him to study organ. > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >      
(back) Subject: Re: Concertato From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:57:50 -0800 (PST)   It's a term that publishers are using, usually for a published arrangement = of a hymn-tune that is for use in the service. A concertato usually has a = big introduction, sometimes a trumpet part, interludes between verses. One = verse may be acapella. There sometime is an organ verse. There might be a = big interlude and modulation between verses 3 and 4 on a 4 verse hymn. A = descant may be with 4th verse. This one I am arranging for our program on = Sunday morning will be small in scale. However, since the tune St Georges = Windsor is mostly used for Thanksgiving, I will expand it to be a much = bigger setting with strings, etc at a later time. That one will be = dedicated to a lister/friend, and the first of a few that I will do = dedicated to friends/mentors on hymns of Thanks.   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
(back) Subject: RE: funeral homes From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 19:58:51 -0000   It is scenes such as the one you describe which make me wonder exactly = what the point of this "viewing" is. Except in the case of accidents, I would have thought that most very close family members would be at the bedside = of someone at the point of death anyway, and would be able to say their = last farewells at that point. Those with faith should realise that what is in = the casket is not the person at all, their real self has moved on to greater glory at that point and their bodily remains should just be disposed of reverently and discreetly whilst giving thanks for their life and achievements. Could it be that the "funeral industry" pushes the idea because they can charge extra fees?   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of OMusic@aol.com Sent: 08 December 2004 17:48 To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: funeral homes SNIP The saddest was for a two year old boy with several brothers and=20 sisters. They all gathered around the casket crying loudly during the viewing. =20 The mother became distraught and had to be helped out. Lee        
(back) Subject: RE: Meeting Interesting people From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 19:59:44 -0000   I have that book. What it says is: "Organists are a funny lot. Have = nothing to do with them!"   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of OMusic@aol.com Sent: 08 December 2004 18:03 To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Meeting Interesting people   When in college my professor had a book about how to fake your way with certain types of musicians. When it came to organists it said something like, leave them alone, they are in a world of their own. Lee   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Re: Unit Organs From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:46:46 EST   Unit instruments are nobody's ideal. But a gross, sweeping generalization = of how bad they are simply means that you haven't heard one that has been = scaled, voiced, and finished by somebody with the proper knowledge, and designed = with extreme care as to which voices go where at what pitches.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4979 - 12/08/04 From: "Staffan Thuringer" <staffan_thuringer@yahoo.com.au> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:58:27 +1100 (EST)     "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> wrote >NIGHT OF MIRACLES A Christmas Cantata by John W. Peterson Dear Listers, great to hear about this, we have been doing Peterson's Christmas cantatas = rotating for the last six or seven years (The Night the Angels sang, A = Wonder of Christmas, Love Transcending and Night of Miracles). And we are going to do his 'No greater love' on Palm Sunday next year, = instead of the rotating CRUCIFIXION and OLIVET TO CALVARY we have been = doing for quite a few years. Peterson is a bit like Caleb Simper, People love to hear it, the choir = loves to sing it, but, of course, many the experts say it is superficial = and bombastic. WE perform it with limited resources, the choir members take turns doing = the solo. I play the organ, but occasionally walk across to the piano and = play one section on that instead of the organ. All this refers to St Andrews Uniting Church, Footscray, Melbourne, = Australia. Regards Staffan Thuringer Organist, Choir master           --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.  
(back) Subject: Re: NIGHT OF MIRACLES From: "Staffan Thuringer" <staffan_thuringer@yahoo.com.au> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:59:47 +1100 (EST)   "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> wrote >NIGHT OF MIRACLES A Christmas Cantata...   Dear Listers, great to hear about this, we have been doing Peterson's Christmas cantatas = rotating for the last six or seven years (The Night the Angels sang, A = Wonder of Christmas, Love Transcending and Night of Miracles). And we are going to do his 'No greater love' on Palm Sunday next year, = instead of the rotating CRUCIFIXION and OLIVET TO CALVARY we have been = doing for quite a few years. Peterson is a bit like Caleb Simper, People love to hear it, the choir = loves to sing it, but, of course, many the experts say it is superficial = and bombastic. WE perform it with limited resources, the choir members take turns doing = the solo. I play the organ, but occasionally walk across to the piano and = play one section on that instead of the organ. All this refers to St Andrews Uniting Church, Footscray, Melbourne, = Australia. Regards Staffan Thuringer Organist, Choir master (sorry for posting with the wrong subject line before..)             --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.  
(back) Subject: RE: Weird request From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 16:59:39 -0600   Give the man a prize!     Glenda Sutton   gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richer Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 5:13 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Weird request     Can I try? Was it "handbell"?   Chirp|Chirp|Chirp: It's the Bat, Bat Arhonious Software, www.chirpingbat.com    
(back) Subject: RE: PipeChat Digest #4979 - 12/08/04 From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:00:57 -0600   Dear Listers,   great to hear about this, we have been doing Peterson's Christmas cantatas rotating for the last six or seven years (The Night the Angels sang, A Wonder of Christmas, Love Transcending and Night of Miracles).   And we are going to do his 'No greater love' on Palm Sunday next year, instead of the rotating CRUCIFIXION and OLIVET TO CALVARY we have been doing for quite a few years.   Peterson is a bit like Caleb Simper, People love to hear it, the choir loves to sing it, but, of course, many the experts say it is superficial and bombastic.   WE perform it with limited resources, the choir members take turns doing the solo. I play the organ, but occasionally walk across to the piano and play one section on that instead of the organ.=20   All this refers to St Andrews Uniting Church, Footscray, Melbourne, Australia.   Regards   Staffan Thuringer   Organist, Choir master   =20   =20   Is there a source to find these cantatas today, or do you just have to look for old copies? Are they out of print?   Daniel Hancock  
(back) Subject: Re: Unit Organs From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:25:34 -0800   A Compton or a Gluck, for instance ... (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   TubaMagna@aol.com wrote:   > Unit instruments are nobody's ideal. But a gross, sweeping = generalization of > how bad they are simply means that you haven't heard one that has been = scaled, > voiced, and finished by somebody with the proper knowledge, and designed = with > extreme care as to which voices go where at what pitches. > > Sebastian M. Gluck > New York City > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Unit Organs From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 18:41:22 -0500   The worst evil of unit organs and unit stops is using a unison rank to derive a mutation or vise-versa. It _never_ works (except pedal = resultants and even then, I'm not so sure). Good organists simply don't use them, = bad organists do use them and everyone wonders why the organ sounds awful. I have checked over Seb's unit designs and notice he never does this. What = a breath of fresh air!   My personal preference is to never extend a manual stop more than one octave. So if you have diapasons 8 and 4, I'm all for extending the 4 to 2. But I don't generally approve of one unit diapason 8,4,2. When I encounter them as an organist, I usually try not to use it for more than 2 =   pitches if I can help it (maybe using a gedeckt for the 8). Remember, extending a rank by one octave is no different than using an octave coupler. In fact, extending a rank by two octaves is no different than using sub- and octave couplers and playing an octave (though that's a practice I try to avoid at almost all costs).   But if I have to live with 4 ranks, give me extensions and duplexing please! I think I'd design something like this if restricted to 4 ranks:   Bourdon 16 (for pedal), 8, 4 Principal 4,2 String or gemshorn or whatever 8,4 Quinte 2 2/3, 1 1/3   -manual I: 8' Bourdon 8' Gemshorn 8' Principal (TC... for solo use) 4' Bourdon 4' Principal 4' Gemshorn 2 2/3' Quinte 2' Octave 1 1/3' Octave Quinte   -Manual II: same as manual I -Pedal: same as manuals but without the TC stop, and add the 16' bourdon -Couplers: No couplers please! We're coupled out already! -Also, one could argue for making the 16' bourdon available on the manuals = I suppose. -All enclosed in a swell box. If a facade is needed, the principal 4,2 = unit could be used for that, but the whole rank should be unenclosed (not necessarily all visible) in that case, to avoid a tonal break when the box =   is closed Andy ($0.02)     On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:46:46 EST, TubaMagna wrote > Unit instruments are nobody's ideal. But a gross, sweeping > generalization of how bad they are simply means that you haven't > heard one that has been scaled, voiced, and finished by somebody > with the proper knowledge, and designed with extreme care as to > which voices go where at what pitches. > > Sebastian M. Gluck > New York City     A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Unit Organs From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 07:53:44 +0800   That is a sweeping generalization Andy. I play a unit organ of six ranks which breaks all your rules. It is cleverly designed and thrilling to = play. AND by the way I am not a bad organist and the organ far from sounds = awful! Have you heard it? No you have not! It depends on disposition of the ranks =   and on the design and voicing of the instrument. Bob Elms. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:41 AM Subject: Re: Unit Organs     > The worst evil of unit organs and unit stops is using a unison rank to > derive a mutation or vise-versa. It _never_ works (except pedal > resultants > and even then, I'm not so sure). Good organists simply don't use them, > bad > organists do use them and everyone wonders why the organ sounds awful.    
(back) Subject: Clever small tracker stoplist by Bedient From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 18:54:40 -0500   I just took another look at the new organs in the back the Nov TAO, and noticed this time that the stoplist of the small Bedient organ back there = is very unusual. I think it is very clever (not having heard it of course).   Here it is:   Great 8 Principal 4 Octave 2 Octave Sesquialtera II Mixture II-III   Swell 8 Salicional 8 Voix Celeste 8 Gedackt 4 Spitzflute 2 Doublette 8 Cromorne/Trumpet   Pedal 16 Subbass 8 Flute   The thing I think is really cool about this was they eliminated the need = for a 8' flute on the great by putting most solo possibilities on the great, which can be accompanied by a variety of combinations on the swell. The exception is the trumpet, of course, which I'm sure can be accompanied by the 8 Principal with no trouble. This allows for the inclusion of the = Voix Celeste which otherwise could be argued to be too luxurious for such a small, straight organ. Also interesting is the Cromorne base for the = reed. A better idea, I would think, than half-length trumpets. I'd be = interested in hearing what the transition is like though. I assume the sesqui is = made of principals rather than flutes, which I like. It could add a reedy = sound to the chorus depending on how its voiced and scaled.   Andy     A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Meeting Interesting people From: "Stephen Best" <stevebest@usadatanet.net> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:55:12 -0500   How sad to read comments like Colin's. There are, however, some bright spots. Last night we had an Guild of Organists meeting at which our three youngest members (15, 15, and 16) were present. Not only did they remain engrossed by a program on registration, they were active participants in discussions before, during, and after. These kids have all kinds of opportunities to play pieces they learn at churches in our area, including my church (62 rank Casavant) and the equally large Holtkamp at Grace Church down the street. Each of these young people, and one other college age student who couldn't be at the meeting, was given A.G.O. membership by an adult Guild member, and we have at least two more adults who are willing to do the same as soon as another talented youngster turns up. I don't think our young people could possibly experience greater encouragement and appreciation. And while I think of it -- lessons for two of them are paid for by area churches, including one by a church at which the student and his family aren't even members! We in Central New York State really love these kids! And we who are adult organists are nice to each other as well.   Steve Best in Utica, NY   Colin Mitchell wrote:   >Hello, > >In my youth, every student was treated with utter >contempt and beaten with sticks. >      
(back) Subject: Re: Unit Organs From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 19:04:56 -0500   I'm ok with all of my rules being broken (that's why I listed them as preferences). I have no problem believing that my rules could be broken successfully. Only exception being the use of mutations derived from = unison stops. I do not believe this could possibly be successful (unless you're talking about a pedal resultant, in which I'd still disagree but less strongly). If you think yours is successful, I'd almost be willing to travel to Australia just to hear it and find out how on earth they did it! :) I sure _wish_ it could be done! Do you have excellent = accoustics? This can hide most evils.   Its not really a generalization. It is a fact in all cases that a = mutation borrowed from a unison rank is out of tune. I suppose one could debate = just how important it is to be in tune. Ah... unless you are talking about a mutation borrowed from an undulant. I've seen that done on a couple of occasions. Sort of works. Here, the unison pitch is out of tune instead = of the mutation.   Andy     On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 07:53:44 +0800, bobelms wrote > That is a sweeping generalization Andy. I play a unit organ of six > ranks which breaks all your rules. It is cleverly designed and > thrilling to play. AND by the way I am not a bad organist and the > organ far from sounds awful! Have you heard it? No you have not! It > depends on disposition of the ranks and on the design and voicing of > the instrument. Bob Elms. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:41 AM > Subject: Re: Unit Organs > > > The worst evil of unit organs and unit stops is using a unison rank to > > derive a mutation or vise-versa. It _never_ works (except pedal > > resultants > > and even then, I'm not so sure). Good organists simply don't use = them, > > bad > > organists do use them and everyone wonders why the organ sounds awful. =   >     A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Weird request From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:40:54 EST   not a handbell fan, huh? sorry, i enjoy both worlds, having been a = handbell director for several years.   then could i interest you in an organ arrangement of in a gadda da vida? = oh wait, that's already been done! :)   scot  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4979 - 12/08/04 From: "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:44:06 +1100   On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:00 am, Daniel Hancock wrote:   > Are they out of print?   Hope so - that would indeed be a welcome miracle! -- Roger Brown robrown@melbpc.org.au roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org