PipeChat Digest #4984 - Thursday, December 9, 2004
 
Re: Unit Organs
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: Unit Organs/True Intonation
  by "Paul Smith" <kipsmith@getgoin.net>
Re: derived mutations
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Moving
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
New Christmas CD for Your Consideration
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
Re: derived mutations
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: derived mutations (and tuning)
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: Unit Organs
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Hammond C2 questions
  by "John Seboldt" <rohrwerk@seboldt.net>
Rochester Event Reminder-Friday Evening, Dec. 10 (cross-Posted)
  by "Kenneth Evans" <kevans1@rochester.rr.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Unit Organs From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:24:39 +0800   That organ I listed is St Mary's Cathedral organ in Perth and the second largest organ in this state where pipe organs only number about110. The reason for the work of the builder of the unit organ I play (6 ranks) was =   cost, where he had to compete with cheap electronics and did so so effectively that nearly one third of the pipe organs in this state were built by him. They vary from single manual one rank to 57 stops and 20+ ranks. For most of these churches to build a "straight" organ would have been out of the question on the score of cost alone. (OK now don't tell me =   about organs with one manual and a single rank of Diapasons that are so beautiful that you can sit and play all day amazed by their beauty!!! I am =   talking of liturgical instruments that are adequate for playing for church =   services, and, among the larger ones, that can handle most of the = repertoire without killling off the organist with boredom and frustration at their limitations.) And, by the way, I was not thinking of borrowed mutations of below 2 & = 2/3' since they were not provided except for 10 & 2/3 on the pedals. I did try = a borrowed mixture on the great, borrowed from the Dulciana but the result = was unpleasant and I removed it again. The organ I play (6 ranks unified) has been played by a number of visiting =   celebrities including Dame Gillian Weir who came back a couple of years later to give a second recital. She played Messiaen, Reubke (94th Psalm), Bach (major Prelude and Fugue and a Trio Sonata, Liszt, as well as Cesar Franck and other major works. Thomas Trotter also came and played it, plus =   others. There were no complaints from any of these.The organ has a very = good chorus reed on the swell which makes the playing of the French repertoire very convincing. It is obvious to me that the organ scene in the USA is unique. You have = huge organs. Sometimes I wonder why church organs need to be so large! The = three largest organs in this country are in the Town Halls in Melbourne and = Sydney and the Sydney Opera House. They are of course of four and five manuals = and with more than 100 stops.The largest church organ in Australia is in the Basilica of St Patrick in my state. It is of four manuals and just over = 100 stops, incorporating a chancel organ of two manuals.It is the only organ = of four manuals in the entire state. We will have to agree to disagree on the subject of unified mutations! However I have the advantage of playing the organs built by this builder using derived mutations! I play and hear them and there is nothing wrong with my ear! On the other hand out of tuneness in an organ is nothing new. =   We have those who still advocate the use of mean tone temperament where = the performer either has to stick to certain keys or else put up with a = dreadful sound of an organ badly out of tune!! Now that should start someone off! Question: Isn't there going to be some out of tuneness in an orchestra = where strings tuned in perfect intervals play with other instruments playing in = a tempered scale.OK I know most players don't use open strings and thus can temper the scale, but not all players can do that (e.g. the young and inexperienced). Looks as if this topic generated some activity. Good!! Makes a change = from electronic versus pipe, the old hoary chestnut. Regards, Bob Elms.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 1:19 AM Subject: Re: Unit Organs     >I actually was fooled by a unit mutation once. It was a small 3 manual > Austin (a very interesting and successful organ for its size... just 22 > ranks counting the 6 or 7 rank antiphonal!). I thought it was just a > badly > voiced nazard and tierce (I've never been in the chamber). I found out = a > couple of years later (after having not played it in a while) that both > are > derived from unison ranks. I couldn't tell they were out of tune... but = I > could tell something was amiss, partly because of the tuning, and = partly, > I'm sure, because the voicing and scaling weren't right because of the > derivation. > > I think this debate has become like this: One guy says "God told me = that > tomatoes are a fruit". Well, gosh, how do you argue with that? The = only > thing you can do is call them a liar. You could also reply "Well, God > told > me that tomatoes are a vegetable" (which in effect is calling them a > liar). > Well, now what do you do? Unless I fly to Australia, that's where we're > stuck. But I have played many, many different organs in many different > churches that have attempted to derive mutations from unit ranks. The 2 > most successful were Austins, strangely enough, and they still didnt' > quite > work. Perhaps yours is the one where someone FINALLY figured out how to =   > do > it. More likely, it sounds ok to you and wouldn't to me. I'm = especially > convinced of this now that I know it uses a tierce too. I'll take your > word > for it that it sounds good to you, and by extension, that it probably > therefore sounds good enough to the congregation. I actually didn't > expect > this issue to be controversial! :) I won't try to take the controversy =   > any > further. Friends anyway! :) (Oh, and you are likely a much better > organist than me, it wouldn't take much for that to be so). > > Andy > > > On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 21:42:02 +0800, bobelms wrote >> Well Andy, in theory you may be correct in what you say about >> mutations and extended ranks, but in actual fact providing the >> design is good and the voicing correct you can't really tell the >> difference. How many people,including most organists, can tell >> whether a 1 1/3' pitch note played in the right hand is in or out of >> tune unless the tuning is very bad? It is hard enough to tune 1 foot >> pitch in the top half anyway. The Dodd organ of 1910 (enlarged in >> the 1960s by the same firm) sounds magnificent in a very friendly >> acoustic. Here is the Great stoplist: Violone 16, Open Diap. 8, >> Melodic Diapason 8, Clarabel 8, Gedact 8, Dulciana 8, Principal 4, >> Gamba 4, Har. Flute 4, 12th 2 & 2/3 (from Gamba), Super Octave 2, >> Gamba 2, Gamba 1 & 3/5, Mixture, (4 reeds). All the mutations come >> from the Gamba and the organ sounds magnificent. Now there is >> nothing wrong with my ear. Like most of my family my pitch is >> practically perfect. >> >> The borrowed pitches including mutations are on all of the organs >> built by Paul F. Hufner. They are very musical small instruments >> built in direct competition with electronic organs. There are 30 of >> them all but three in this state. Regarding bad organ playing, of >> course in the hands of a bad organist any instrument can sound >> atrocious but I am not a bad player and I use the derived stops with >> the greatest of care and the organ under those circumstances NEVER >> sounds bad. The acoustic in my church used to be quite good but a >> zealous Parish Council put in far too much carpet so that the >> acoustic when empty is rather good but when the church is full it is >> absolutely DEAD!. You cannot generalize about organs and say that >> goes for one in one church goes for all. It depends on design and >> voicing in the first place and acousti of the building in the second >> place. >> >> You are welcome to come and try it. I think you would have a big >> surprise. >> Bob Elms. >> > > > A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service > PO Box 111 > Burlington, VT 05402 > (802)578-3936 > Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >    
(back) Subject: Re: Unit Organs/True Intonation From: "Paul Smith" <kipsmith@getgoin.net> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:06:46 -0600   I am curious just how an expert orchestra tunes to itself. One of the requirements for an instrument's entry into the modern orchestra is that = the performer has control of the intonation of each note. Recorders didn't but =   flutes do, natural horns and trumpets didn't have much control (it was so hard just to get the notes accurately), but good modern brass players all have movable tuning slides as well as valves, and can correct the natural vagueries (and inconsistencies) of blowing on an open brass tube. There = must be some system of intonation that the orchestra as a whole arives at, that =   sounds "in tune" to them. It won't be any of the temperaments that are applied to keyboard instruments, which were invented only because we keyboard players can't adjust our tuning to what naturally sounds "in = tune", like singers and orchestral players do automatically. In-tuneness is a = very flexible thing. As the strings get warmed up and excited, the pitch tends = to rise - enough that the wind players will have to adjust in the course of a =   symphony, and woe to the oboist who has not allowed for that adjustment = when he made his reeds! Good singers singing a capella tune differently than = when accompanied by a piano or organ. Has anybody studies such natural "intuneness"? Kip in Missouri ----- Original Message ----- From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org>; <PIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:24 PM Subject: Re: Unit Organs     > That organ I listed is St Mary's Cathedral organ in Perth and the = second > largest organ in this state where pipe organs only number about110. The > reason for the work of the builder of the unit organ I play (6 ranks) = was > cost, where he had to compete with cheap electronics and did so so > effectively that nearly one third of the pipe organs in this state were > built by him. They vary from single manual one rank to 57 stops and 20+ > ranks. For most of these churches to build a "straight" organ would have =   > been out of the question on the score of cost alone. (OK now don't tell = me > about organs with one manual and a single rank of Diapasons that are = so > beautiful that you can sit and play all day amazed by their beauty!!! I = am > talking of liturgical instruments that are adequate for playing for = church > services, and, among the larger ones, that can handle most of the > repertoire without killling off the organist with boredom and = frustration > at their limitations.) > And, by the way, I was not thinking of borrowed mutations of below 2 & > 2/3' since they were not provided except for 10 & 2/3 on the pedals. I = did > try a borrowed mixture on the great, borrowed from the Dulciana but the > result was unpleasant and I removed it again. > The organ I play (6 ranks unified) has been played by a number of = visiting > celebrities including Dame Gillian Weir who came back a couple of years > later to give a second recital. She played Messiaen, Reubke (94th = Psalm), > Bach (major Prelude and Fugue and a Trio Sonata, Liszt, as well as = Cesar > Franck and other major works. Thomas Trotter also came and played it, = plus > others. There were no complaints from any of these.The organ has a very > good chorus reed on the swell which makes the playing of the French > repertoire very convincing. > It is obvious to me that the organ scene in the USA is unique. You have > huge organs. Sometimes I wonder why church organs need to be so large! = The > three largest organs in this country are in the Town Halls in Melbourne > and Sydney and the Sydney Opera House. They are of course of four and > five manuals and with more than 100 stops.The largest church organ in > Australia is in the Basilica of St Patrick in my state. It is of four > manuals and just over 100 stops, incorporating a chancel organ of two > manuals.It is the only organ of four manuals in the entire state. > We will have to agree to disagree on the subject of unified mutations! > However I have the advantage of playing the organs built by this builder =   > using derived mutations! I play and hear them and there is nothing wrong =   > with my ear! On the other hand out of tuneness in an organ is nothing = new. > We have those who still advocate the use of mean tone temperament where > the performer either has to stick to certain keys or else put up with a > dreadful sound of an organ badly out of tune!! Now that should start > someone off! > Question: Isn't there going to be some out of tuneness in an orchestra > where strings tuned in perfect intervals play with other instruments > playing in a tempered scale.OK I know most players don't use open = strings > and thus can temper the scale, but not all players can do that (e.g. the =   > young and inexperienced). > Looks as if this topic generated some activity. Good!! Makes a change = from > electronic versus pipe, the old hoary chestnut. > Regards, > Bob Elms. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 1:19 AM > Subject: Re: Unit Organs > > >>I actually was fooled by a unit mutation once. It was a small 3 manual >> Austin (a very interesting and successful organ for its size... just 22 >> ranks counting the 6 or 7 rank antiphonal!). I thought it was just a >> badly >> voiced nazard and tierce (I've never been in the chamber). I found out = a >> couple of years later (after having not played it in a while) that both =   >> are >> derived from unison ranks. I couldn't tell they were out of tune... = but >> I >> could tell something was amiss, partly because of the tuning, and = partly, >> I'm sure, because the voicing and scaling weren't right because of the >> derivation. >> >> I think this debate has become like this: One guy says "God told me = that >> tomatoes are a fruit". Well, gosh, how do you argue with that? The = only >> thing you can do is call them a liar. You could also reply "Well, God >> told >> me that tomatoes are a vegetable" (which in effect is calling them a >> liar). >> Well, now what do you do? Unless I fly to Australia, that's where = we're >> stuck. But I have played many, many different organs in many different >> churches that have attempted to derive mutations from unit ranks. The = 2 >> most successful were Austins, strangely enough, and they still didnt' >> quite >> work. Perhaps yours is the one where someone FINALLY figured out how = to >> do >> it. More likely, it sounds ok to you and wouldn't to me. I'm = especially >> convinced of this now that I know it uses a tierce too. I'll take your =   >> word >> for it that it sounds good to you, and by extension, that it probably >> therefore sounds good enough to the congregation. I actually didn't >> expect >> this issue to be controversial! :) I won't try to take the = controversy >> any >> further. Friends anyway! :) (Oh, and you are likely a much better >> organist than me, it wouldn't take much for that to be so). >> >> Andy >> >> >> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 21:42:02 +0800, bobelms wrote >>> Well Andy, in theory you may be correct in what you say about >>> mutations and extended ranks, but in actual fact providing the >>> design is good and the voicing correct you can't really tell the >>> difference. How many people,including most organists, can tell >>> whether a 1 1/3' pitch note played in the right hand is in or out of >>> tune unless the tuning is very bad? It is hard enough to tune 1 foot >>> pitch in the top half anyway. The Dodd organ of 1910 (enlarged in >>> the 1960s by the same firm) sounds magnificent in a very friendly >>> acoustic. Here is the Great stoplist: Violone 16, Open Diap. 8, >>> Melodic Diapason 8, Clarabel 8, Gedact 8, Dulciana 8, Principal 4, >>> Gamba 4, Har. Flute 4, 12th 2 & 2/3 (from Gamba), Super Octave 2, >>> Gamba 2, Gamba 1 & 3/5, Mixture, (4 reeds). All the mutations come >>> from the Gamba and the organ sounds magnificent. Now there is >>> nothing wrong with my ear. Like most of my family my pitch is >>> practically perfect. >>> >>> The borrowed pitches including mutations are on all of the organs >>> built by Paul F. Hufner. They are very musical small instruments >>> built in direct competition with electronic organs. There are 30 of >>> them all but three in this state. Regarding bad organ playing, of >>> course in the hands of a bad organist any instrument can sound >>> atrocious but I am not a bad player and I use the derived stops with >>> the greatest of care and the organ under those circumstances NEVER >>> sounds bad. The acoustic in my church used to be quite good but a >>> zealous Parish Council put in far too much carpet so that the >>> acoustic when empty is rather good but when the church is full it is >>> absolutely DEAD!. You cannot generalize about organs and say that >>> goes for one in one church goes for all. It depends on design and >>> voicing in the first place and acousti of the building in the second >>> place. >>> >>> You are welcome to come and try it. I think you would have a big >>> surprise. >>> Bob Elms. >>> >> >> >> A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service >> PO Box 111 >> Burlington, VT 05402 >> (802)578-3936 >> Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com >> >> ****************************************************************** >> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >> List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> >> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> >> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >> > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: derived mutations From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:07:19 -0600   While nobody would deny that it is better whenever possible to have a separate quint rank for the mutations, there are various ways of = mitigating the out-of-tuneness when a mutation is pulled out of a unison rank.   If, for example, you take a 2.2/3' Nazard out of a fairly broad-scaled Gedeckt, the chances are that it will draw quite badly. This means that when played together the unison and fifth pipes will pull each other more into tune and the out-of-tuneness in practice will be much less than in theory.   I know of some Mollers from the '60s and '70s where a 1.1/3' Larigot was taken out of the 8' Salicional. Here the pipes at the bass end that are = not used by the Larigot can be tuned true for the Salicional, while the pipes = at the treble end not used by the Salicional can be tuned true for the = Larigot, and those in between can be tuned to a compromise. Again the result is better than you might expect.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Moving From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:24:16 EST   Lest anyone be confused by my message on moving, we are going to live in = the apartments for about a year while Keith reorganizes his business. Much of = his business will be traveling. After this is stable, we hope to get a house = and a shop. We've had a hectic year and a half finishing raising 3 teens and = one had a baby with her. They are all in the GED program at the Workforce. = It has taken a lot of expense to feed this lot, as well as the taxi service. = Keith literaly stopped his out of town tunings and voicings to accommodate the kids. They are now in their own homes, one has passed the GED, has a full = time job, and is going to college next semester. The other two will take the = GED next week and go for job interviews. Two were my grandchildren from my = son who is very ill. The other we found at the battered women's shelter with her = baby and she wanted to go to the Workforce. I hope we have had some influence = in their future. It has been very expensive and taxing, but rewarding to see =   their progress. I am exhausted physically and emotionally. I may not be = posting (yea!) while we are moving and changing to cable sign on. Sunday is my = last day playing at the church. They are doing the cantata, One of Us, with CD =   accompaniment. Lee  
(back) Subject: New Christmas CD for Your Consideration From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:37:20 EST   Disclaimer: I have no fiduciary or other business interest in the = Cathedral Choral Society, although I have had a long association with them doing = program booklets and a couple record jackets over the past 25 years or so.   Gothic has just come out with a new CD called "Welcome All Wonders" that includes many cuts from last year's Cathedral Choral Society Joy of = Christmas concerts recorded in Washington Cathedral. The repertoire goes well beyond = the usual beloved Willcocks/Rutter/et al things and includes some mostly = unfamiliar things although many are probably familiar with the late great Wayne = Dirksen's Chanticleer and Welcome All Wonders.   The choral society was founded by Paul Callaway in the early 40s and for = the last several years has been directed by Reilly Lewis, who is also the founder/conductor of the Washington Bach Consort and generally recognized = as one of the premier choral conductors in Washington, if not in the entire country. =     The recording captures a lot of room sound and includes choir, organ, = brass, and the carillon. If you're looking for something new for yourself or = gifts, I think it's worth checking out at www.gothicrecords.com.  
(back) Subject: Re: derived mutations From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 21:09:05 -0500   Now, _this_ is interesting. I might be able to be convinced this could sorta work. I'd have to hear one. Andy   On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:07:19 -0600, John L. Speller wrote > While nobody would deny that it is better whenever possible to have a > separate quint rank for the mutations, there are various ways of = mitigating > the out-of-tuneness when a mutation is pulled out of a unison rank. > > If, for example, you take a 2.2/3' Nazard out of a fairly broad- > scaled Gedeckt, the chances are that it will draw quite badly. This > means that when played together the unison and fifth pipes will pull > each other more into tune and the out-of-tuneness in practice will > be much less than in theory. > > I know of some Mollers from the '60s and '70s where a 1.1/3' Larigot > was taken out of the 8' Salicional. Here the pipes at the bass end > that are not used by the Larigot can be tuned true for the > Salicional, while the pipes at the treble end not used by the > Salicional can be tuned true for the Larigot, and those in between > can be tuned to a compromise. Again the result is better than you > might expect. > > John Speller >       A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: derived mutations (and tuning) From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 21:18:11 EST   In a message dated 12/9/2004 9:09:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, John = Speller writes: '60s and '70s where a 1.1/3' Larigot > was taken out of the 8' Salicional. Here the pipes at the bass end > that are not used by the Larigot can be tuned true for the > Salicional, while the pipes at the treble end not used by the > Salicional can be tuned true for the Larigot <<snipage>>   I maintain several Moller organs here in VA that have extended gemshorn = ranks that they also borrow the extension into the Larigot. My standard practice = in tuning these instruments is to tune the Gemshsorn up to #61 (of the 8' = foot) as a unison stop, then from number 62 up (which is middle F# of the "larigot") I tune as if it were a legit Larigot stop so that it is in = correct tune and therefore doesn't "fight" with the mixtures in these organs where there = are duplicated pitches present (the quints in the mixtures). This has worked = well for me.   Rick in VA  
(back) Subject: Re: Unit Organs From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 21:38:28 -0500   > the playing of the French repertoire very convincing. It is obvious > to me that the organ scene in the USA is unique. You have huge > organs. Sometimes I wonder why church organs need to be so large! > The three largest organs in this country are in the Town Halls in > Melbourne and Sydney and the Sydney Opera House. They are of course   I agree with this. Americans want big or nothing! It is hurting the = organ scene overall. I'll bet I'm the biggest believer in small unit organs on this list. Someone said, maybe more than one, that no organbuilder = actually aspires to build unit organs. Well, if I ever get into building organs, which is a very real option at some point, I absolutely would aspire to = unit organs. I'm a very strong believer in them. Just unit organs without derived mutations. :) My philosophy on unit organs is that choruses = should still develop before adding too many different colors. The real beauty of =   the unit action, to me, is the possibility of having one division as well developed as possible, but with much of the flexibility of two manuals, rather than spreading resources over two too-small divisions. (This is = why I think the Bedient tracker I mentioned is so brilliant, though I'm not really a tracker guy. It manages to be straight, have two divisions, and still not duplicate anything). If it was six ranks, I'd probably do this over 2 manuals and pedal:   Bourdon 16,8,4 Diapason 8 (and perhaps 4) Octave 4,2 (and maybe 8 TC for solo work if useful that way) Quinte 2 2/3, 1 1/3, and perhaps even 5 1/3 for the pedal Gemshorn 8,4 (or possibly a string) Reed 8,4, and also down to 16 if affordable, (Trumpet or Haubois preferably. High pressure under double expression even better. If so, I might put the string(s) in there with it.)   I also agree that controversy is more fun than agreement. ;) At first I was regretting that I stirred all this up (and didn't mean to at all, I honestly thought this would be unanimous!), but realizing as often before, =   that if we all agreed, there would be no need for a chat room! ;)   Andy     A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Hammond C2 questions From: "John Seboldt" <rohrwerk@seboldt.net> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 20:44:11 -0600     The "organ" on which I practiced as a kid is still at my folks' house in the Twin Cities area, and now that they are considering moving out, I'm offering to find a home for it. What are the best sites for determining a fair market value?   It's the C2 - no touch response percussion, no Leslie. I know lotsa folks would pay a premium for a B3 with Leslie, but is the C2 still prized by some? It's in working condition last I played it - lubrication has been kept up, just needs some use and/or some contact cleaner.   John Seboldt Milwaukee    
(back) Subject: Rochester Event Reminder-Friday Evening, Dec. 10 (cross-Posted) From: "Kenneth Evans" <kevans1@rochester.rr.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 21:56:00 -0500   A reminder that Rochester's own theater organist Tim Schramm will present = a concert tomorrow evening Friday, December 10 on the RTOS 4/23 Wurlitzer to =   celebrate the year-end Holiday Season. This event will be held in the NEW Auditorium Theatre, 875 East Main Street, Rochester, NY 14605 at 8 PM. Tickets at only $15 each will go on sale at the box office at one hour before the concert start.   You are invited to visit our website at http://theatreorgans.com/rochestr/ for concert details, driving directions and much more. We hope to see you here for a program of your musical favorites.   Submitted by, Ken Evans RTOS Director