PipeChat Digest #4986 - Friday, December 10, 2004
 
Re: Hammond C2 questions
  by "Cole" <rcolev@woh.rr.com>
Re: "Night of Snobbery"
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: John's C2
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
RE: Unit Organs
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
RE: "Night of Snobbery"
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
Subject lines in code345098345098340985
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: "Night of Snobbery"
  by "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org>
RE: "Night of Snobbery"
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
RE: Unit Organs
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
RE: "Night of Snobbery"
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Hammond C2 questions From: "Cole" <rcolev@woh.rr.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 05:56:28 -0500   I sold my RT-3 with PR-40 this past spring. I was very disappointed when I =   could only coax a sale price of U$800 for it. Everything worked, and it = had the AGO pedal board. It still looked nice and sounded like the day I took delivery. Unfortunately, as the purchaser backed into my driveway, I was rushing around rehanging one of the reverb springs, and I slid onto the bench to see if all was as it should be. I promptly fell on my fat ass = with the shattered bench under me. I immediately discounted the price to U$650 and made profuse apologies to the new owner. He got the RT-3 for what I characterize as a "steal". When I contacted him about two months later, he =   said that the bench repair cost him exactly $150. The only Hammond that I see any demand for is that ugly B-3. I guess I am not a good judge of investment potential. Cole Votaw -- Springfield, Ohio   >The "organ" on which I practiced as a kid is still at my folks' house in >the Twin Cities area, and now that they are considering moving out, I'm >offering to find a home for it. What are the best sites for determining a =   >fair market value? > >It's the C2 - no touch response percussion, no Leslie. I know lotsa folks =   >would pay a premium for a B3 with Leslie, but is the C2 still prized by >some? It's in working condition last I played it - lubrication has been >kept up, just needs some use and/or some contact cleaner. > >John Seboldt    
(back) Subject: Re: "Night of Snobbery" From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:04:24 EST   >>> Daniel Hancock wrote: >>> Are they out of print? [Night of Miracles scores]   >> "Roger Brown" wrote: >> Hope so - that would indeed be a welcome miracle!   >Now THAT right there could not be a more perfect example of >the kind of nose-upturned attitude we have been discussing, >that is driving away a lot of people in general, and young >people in particular, from the organ and the A.G.O.   Not only is that attitude turning people away from the organ, it's what is =   driving churches to experiment with contemporary services and bands, etc. = Who wants to go sit through "A Froberger and Scheidt Christmas Extravaganza"? = Not me, for sure. Maybe it's my Baptist and Church of God past rearing it's = ugly head, but there are times when I want to hear John W. Peterson--especially = at the holidays. What a better time for "warm, fuzzy music." No one is claiming that the music is a masterwork, BUT I can tell you that John W. = Peterson made more money off of it than anyone on this list has made from any of = their compositions or arrangements!   There is a place of good balance, where we can use discretion and throw = the congregation some old favorites once in a while. Giving them something = like "Night of Miracles", or as Bud suggested, too, "Gesu Bambino," a = candlelight version of "Silent Night" (always a winner!), or at Easter time, "The = Palms, " "Open the Gates of the Temple," and assorted other OLD favorites, will = assure your continued success, and the fact that if you give the congregation = some of their favorites, you can do just about anything else you want during the = year.   The attitude that some music is just below even being done is truly sad. Some choirs can only sing some works. In the US, if I remember the = statistics correctly, the average church is under 200 MEMBERS. On Sunday mornings, attendance will be far less than that, more like less than 100. Here in = the South, many churches have volunteer choir directors with no musical training, but = just a willing heart--and a choir with no idea about how to sing, either. = Couple that with an untrained pianist/organist, and you can't do a lot of music. =   They are stuck doing basic music, often singing out of the hymnal for the = "Choir Special." Are we, as trained musicians going to look down our noses at = them because that's all they can offer to God? It's not what I would want to = hear every week, but I don't have to go to that church, I can go elsewhere--and = I do. BUT, that is their musical offering, and while it may not be much in = our eyes, it's still a sweet song to God, and that's who is listening. We shouldn't be judging it, because this is a totally different venue than an = organ recital.   The fact that Charlie has brought together members of two churches and members of the community to sing this cantata is great. I wish that I was = in LA to hear the performance. I've heard a recording of one of his choirs before, = so I know they'll do a bang up job on it. We need to lose the attitude, folks, = or we are going to just continue to drive people away from church music. It does nothing to foster collegial attitudes between musicians and it does = nothing to help promote traditional church music. Don't you think that church = staff members can even notice the attitudes of the musicians? When I talk to = clergy in my funeral director role to set service times and get services all = lined up, you should hear some of the things that are said about our profession = by our church leaders. This is usually precipitated by my question of "will your =   musician be playing for the service, or do you need me to line someone up = to play, or I can always play if necessary...." Clergy talk about us, and = quite often, it's not good--and it's always about the attitudes. Heads up...   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: John's C2 From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:17:52 EST   The C2 can have percussion added to it, but honestly, for church use, add = a Leslie 122 to it (or a 147) and a church can have a good gospel organ for = not a lot of money. B3's are the hot commodity, but the only difference between =   B's and C's are the case. The guts are the same. What a Hammondhead = wants is a tonewheel organ, not one of this new digital reproductions--THEY ARE NOT = THE SAME, no matter what anyone says.   Put the organ up for sale on the Theatreorgan.com list, and also on Churchorgantrader.com.   Dennis Steckley mentioned VintageHammond.com and I can not rave about them =   enough. I bought my B3 from them, and we bought our concert model D152 = from them at church. They are the best people to work with. I dealt with the = Atlanta office (Charlie Bostick) but they also have a Houston office, but = obviously, Atlanta is much closer to the Charlotte area than Houston is. When we = bought the Hammond at church from them, I had made a post about it on here--they posted it on their website, so I'm on their website as a testimonial. LOL =   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: RE: Unit Organs From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 07:54:42 -0600   Bob Elms wrote:   =20   The organ I play (6 ranks unified) has been played by a number of visiting=20   celebrities including Dame Gillian Weir who came back a couple of years=20   later to give a second recital. She played Messiaen, Reubke (94th Psalm),=20   Bach (major Prelude and Fugue and a Trio Sonata, Liszt, as well as Cesar=20   Franck and other major works. Thomas Trotter also came and played it, plus=20   others. There were no complaints from any of these.The organ has a very good=20   chorus reed on the swell which makes the playing of the French repertoire=20   very convincing.   =20   I've heard Gillian Weir play a terrible organ here in Springfield, Missouri. Large enough, but poorly voiced, dry acoustics, and inadequate tonal balance. She worked wonders with it, and I couldn't believe it was the same instrument. Ever since, each time I get a chance to play it (AGO recitals, etc.), I'm determined to figure out how she did it, and am still trying!   =20   Daniel Hancock   Springfield, Missouri   =20  
(back) Subject: RE: "Night of Snobbery" From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:14:42 -0600   From Bud: I intend to have John W. Peterson's "But I Would Not Have You To Be=20 Ignorant, Brethren" sung at my funeral.=20   What is this--a solo or an anthem? The title fascinates me!   Daniel Hancock  
(back) Subject: Subject lines in code345098345098340985 From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:34:09 -0500   On 12/9/04 6:14 PM, "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> wrote:   > Didn't some other curmudgeon mention this very thing a few days back? = :-)   If he didn't, he should've. And I'm glad YOU did!   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: "Night of Snobbery" From: "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 02:37:04 +1100   On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 02:30 pm, Charlie Lester wrote:   > Now THAT right there could not be a more perfect example of > the kind of nose-upturned attitude we have been discussing,   Dear me that took its time coming.........   If you wish to advocate Petersen over so much of the simple yet good = quality music that is available for all sort of choirs and congregations be my = guest.   But I cannot agree - EVER. Nor will I *ever* accept that opting for the = best possible quality in music (even if that means relative simplicity) equates = to snobbery.     -- Roger Brown roger@rogerbrown.no-ip.org http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org  
(back) Subject: RE: "Night of Snobbery" From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:41:32 -0600   >If you wish to advocate Petersen over so much of the simple yet good >quality=20 >music that is available for all sort of choirs and congregations be my >guest.   Not OVER, but "in addition to!"  
(back) Subject: RE: Unit Organs From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:47:46 -0500   This is a great reminder that its really about the music. I've noticed = that at AGO meetings here in Vermont, we spend an awful lot of time complaining =   about substandard organs! Holy cow, if we don't like our organs how can = we expect anyone else to! Give me a good organist and a bad organ over the Mormon Tabernacle with me playing any day! :) Kudos to organists, especially good ones, willing to play bad organs! Andy   > > I've heard Gillian Weir play a terrible organ here in Springfield, > Missouri. Large enough, but poorly voiced, dry acoustics, and > inadequate tonal balance. She worked wonders with it, and I couldn't > believe it was the same instrument. Ever since, each time I get a > chance to play it (AGO recitals, etc.), I'm determined to figure out > how she did it, and am still trying! > > Daniel Hancock > > Springfield, Missouri       A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: RE: "Night of Snobbery" From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:08:27 -0000   We have an elderly gentleman in our congregation who, when we had a = choir, was a mainstay of the basses. He is now almost completely blind. Last = year, just before Easter he asked if I could transcribe two LP recordings he = had of "Olivet to Calvary" and Stainer's "Crucifixion" onto CDs for him as = he no longer had a record deck. I was pleased to do so. Then at Christmas time last year, he came along asking me to do the same task to "Night of Miracles" - again, I did so and when I gave it to him, he thanked me = very emotionally, as these "lesser works" brought back fond memories for him = of the days when he used to sing them in the choir. He also gave me a = handsome donation towards the organ restoration fund. Let us be a bit more = charitable in our reactions to such pieces, and realise that for some they have = spoken the message of the season as well as if not better than some more = elevated works.=20   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Charlie Lester Sent: 10 December 2004 03:30 To: PipeChat Subject: "Night of Snobbery"   >> Daniel Hancock wrote: >> Are they out of print? [Night of Miracles scores]   > "Roger Brown" wrote: > Hope so - that would indeed be a welcome miracle!     Now THAT right there could not be a more perfect example of=20 the kind of nose-upturned attitude we have been discussing,=20 that is driving away a lot of people in general, and young=20 people in particular, from the organ and the A.G.O.   Yeah, okay, "Night of Miracles" is not, from a musicianship=20 standpoint, the greatest piece of music ever written. But it=20 is very melodic and singable, is easy to learn, and has some=20 lovely choruses that "the people in the pew" love to hear.=20 For small or all-volunteer amateur choirs who can't handle=20 Messiah or Bach's Christmas Oratorio, it is a very suitable=20 piece of music.   And, indeed, the cantata is well-beloved by many people.=20 Including me.   I personally have a long history with the work, having first=20 sung it at ten years old in 1966 in my mother's choir. And=20 in the intervening years I have sung it, played organ,=20 piano, and directed it several times; and it has always been=20 a very moving and meaningful experience for me. It's one of=20 those sentimental bits of sweet Christmas cheer that "takes=20 me back to days of yore."   When I first started considering what to do for Christmas=20 this year, I mentioned "Night of Miracles" almost=20 offhandedly to a dear friend who is a retired choral=20 director and school music teacher. She lit up like a=20 Christmas tree and said, "Oh, that would be wonderful. It's=20 not been done in years and I am sure it would be very well=20 received."   Well, the naysayers will be glad-hearted to hear that the=20 music is indeed out of print. I went right to the source for=20 it and found out it is no longer published. But I do have a=20 40-year-old copy of the score, and the publisher agreed to=20 grant a special license to make photocopies of it.   Then I started sending around invitations to choir folks to=20 sing it as a "massed choir." Every single reply was=20 favorable and positive although some people already had=20 seasonal commitments and could not join us.   I just think it's really sad that this kind of "I'm better=20 than that crap, and so is my choir" is so pervasive. Those=20 who don't want to do this kind of music certainly don't have=20 to ... but at the same time, why can't they be a little more=20 open-minded and CHARITABLE toward those who DO want to. And=20 maybe consider that maybe their choir MIGHT like this kind=20 of fare ... as welcome relief from the hard-to-digest diet=20 of "suitable music" that they are force-fed all year 'round.   ~ C       ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>